Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

One TE I would trade for, that is if Jacksonville is willing to part with, would be Mercedes Lewis. He's a very underestimated TE.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1116546]One TE I would trade for, that is if Jacksonville is willing to part with, would be Mercedes Lewis. He's a very underestimated TE.[/quote]

With Julius Thomas banged up not sure they'd go for that right now.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=Chico23231;1116540]If we could move garçon or Roberts for a decent te, I wouldn't hesitate[/quote]

Roberts maybe. Garcon no, unless you're getting an elite TE in return.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=Chico23231;1116540]If we could move garçon or Roberts for a decent te, I wouldn't hesitate[/quote]

I am not moving Garcon unless the Pats come to us and say here is Gronk or KC lets us have Kelce

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

Definitely not in favor of trading Garcon given how fragile DJax can be.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

Hell no...our core guys stay. The boys will figure out the TE issue.
AND there will likely be a serviceable TE in the cuts upcoming as has been iterated.........

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

Watching 49ers vs Texans, their TE's are looking good. Celek especially.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

Don't make fun of me but why is nobody talking about Cooley? I know he won't be elite but it is too far fetched to imagine he would at least be serviceable? He would be a cheap, no risk signing.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1116553]Don't make fun of me but why is nobody talking about Cooley? I know he won't be elite but it is too far fetched to imagine he would at least be serviceable? He would be a cheap, no risk signing.[/quote]

Cooley was a H-Back type when he played. He never could block well. We need a TE who can block so we can run the ball.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

rumor is cooley is not an option

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

Really, really good article about Cousins and one of the causes for his interceptions.

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/8/15/9159149/hazards-huddle-kirk-cousins-colors-inside-the-lines#]Hazard's Huddle: Kirk Cousins Colors Inside the Lines - Hogs Haven[/url]

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1116556]Really, really good article about Cousins and one of the causes for his interceptions.

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/8/15/9159149/hazards-huddle-kirk-cousins-colors-inside-the-lines#]Hazard's Huddle: Kirk Cousins Colors Inside the Lines - Hogs Haven[/url][/quote]

Yup that's Kirk in a nutshell.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1116556]Really, really good article about Cousins and one of the causes for his interceptions.

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/8/15/9159149/hazards-huddle-kirk-cousins-colors-inside-the-lines#]Hazard's Huddle: Kirk Cousins Colors Inside the Lines - Hogs Haven[/url][/quote]

This is the gist of the article: "That is what makes Kirk Cousins a frustrating player. He did absolutely everything you want from a quarterback. He read the coverage, identified the match-up, understood the concept of the play and why it was intended, he looked off the only possible help, but it was the FS who didn't do what he was "suppose" to do. Cousins only mistake was not recognizing that. [U]He uses his mind for where he is going with the ball instead of his eyes. Before a play starts, he has an entire outline in his mind of where everyone on the field is going to be which is great for a quarterback but does a poor job with his eyes confirming it.[/U] That's why Cousins will sometimes throw that interception RIGHT to a defender because that's not where Cousins planned on him being, yet that is where he was located."

That is an interesting observation. Does anyone here agree with the author? I'm not smart enough to figure out why Kirk throws bad interceptions but I can clearly see that he knows the offense very well.

The author also mentioned that he thinks Kirk doesn't have a strong arm. Personally, I don't think I've seen him make a throw where I thought "Oh, not enough arm on that one". I feel like Kirk's arm is plenty strong enough.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

Just watched the first half of this game on NFL network.

Matt Jones looked really good.

Roberts is a good receiver but suxxorz as a returner.

Morris looked good as usual.

The O line looked better than last year.

Our defense looked pretty vanilla but I liked Cullivers fire.
(and yea, a few of our #1 guys didnt play)

The Garcon drop was all on Garcon, Rod Gardner could have caught that ball.

Cousins looked pretty good.....against 2nd stringers.

If Griffins performance is a harbinger of the future I'll say he will not make it to the middle of the season.
Hes still getting hit way too much.
I'd almost be tempted to split all the first team reps between him and Cousins the rest of the preseason.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=Mattyk;1116508]Good breakdown on RG3's performance, sorry if already posted

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/08/14/robert-griffin-iii-showed-what-he-needed-to-in-start-against-cleveland/[/url][/quote]

I went back and rewatched Griff's performance again to see if i judged him too harshly,dont think I did.All but one of his throws were safe easy completions.The one throw where he scrambled to his left and completed the off balance throw to Grant,I think he got lucky.I'm not even sure he was throwing it to Grant,there were 2 receivers right there,the underneath receiver would have been the better target,less chance for interception.He could have been throwing to the underneath rec and got lucky and hit Grant,who knows?
The first 3rd down throw he was locked onto 1 rec then threw it high.The 2 fade routes in the endzone werent even close.I hate that play,Griff rarely makes a good throw on a fade.Maybe thats why Jay called it twice,I dont know.On the 2nd fade he had an underneath rec open that would have least got a first down,but who knows,maybe he's committed to the fade no matter what just to work on that throw.
All in all,not a bad performance,just average.Same inconsistencies he's showed in past.Hopefully he improves.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1116569]...Does anyone here agree with the author? I'm not smart enough to figure out why Kirk throws bad interceptions but I can clearly see that he knows the offense very well.

The author also mentioned that he thinks Kirk doesn't have a strong arm. Personally, I don't think I've seen him make a throw where I thought "Oh, not enough arm on that one". I feel like Kirk's arm is plenty strong enough.[/quote]I think Kirk's arm is plenty strong enough to make all the throws. He doesn't have 'plus' arm talent like Griffin but he's got more then Colt to be sure.

I agree with the author somewhat. I think he goes too far into the mind reading speculation of Kirk's decisions.

For me Kirk's issues boil down to this: decision making. I think the author rationalizes and speculates reasons for why you think Cousins makes decision X. Fact is unless you ask Kirk you can't know the 'why'. What you can see is that, when pressured and when the design of the play doesn't result in the primary receiver being open Kirk tends to force the ball. Or in other words Kirk has a hard time 'turning down' or 'moving on' post snap from what the play dictated pre-snap.

I would also add that Kirk, needs to improve on 3rd downs and in second halves.
But the 3rd down struggles weren't unique to him the passing game as unit struggled there, with McCoy actually performing the best.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1116555]rumor is cooley is not an option[/quote]

Definitely not a rumor, that is a full blown fact lol

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1116556]Really, really good article about Cousins and one of the causes for his interceptions.

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/8/15/9159149/hazards-huddle-kirk-cousins-colors-inside-the-lines#]Hazard's Huddle: Kirk Cousins Colors Inside the Lines - Hogs Haven[/url][/quote]

The article is garbage. How many other teams throw back shoulder? A ton. We never do. KC made the play he was suppose to. This is the type of play where Griffin probably doesn't throw it or doesn't give the wr a chance to make a play. He'd would have got sacked on this play for slow decision making. The over anyalyzing is crazy. Just like the Grffin pass to Garçon. Ridiculous.

Also, I love how media/fans think KC's ceiling is done after 9 starts. That is also ridiculous.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

The author of the article gives him credit for making a nice play with the back shoulder pass. So what about it is garbage exactly?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1116569]

That is an interesting observation. Does anyone here agree with the author? I'm not smart enough to figure out why Kirk throws bad interceptions but I can clearly see that he knows the offense very well.

The author also mentioned that he thinks Kirk doesn't have a strong arm. Personally, I don't think I've seen him make a throw where I thought "Oh, not enough arm on that one". I feel like Kirk's arm is plenty strong enough.[/quote]

1 - yes, i believe Kirk, after doing his pre-snap reads, predetermines where he is going to go w the ball. Cooley sd Kirk is too quick to decide who he is going to throw to and RG3 is too hesitant.

2 - yes, i think Kirk has an okay arm but sometimes you see kirk trying to muscle a throw and it rides up on him. he has an avg strength arm imo.

[url=http://nflbreakdowns.com/kirk-cousins-9-interceptions-2014/]Film Breakdown: Kirk Cousins' 9 Interceptions in 2014[/url]

^^ this looks like a really good read. breakdown of kirk's 9 interceptions last year w quick video.

i was looking for the article that broke down when Kirk's ints happened = most of them happened when we were losing by more than 2 scores in the 2nd half.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

Both are flawed, we may not have a decent QB on the roster.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

I've talked to several people in and around the organization about Kirk Cousins since I first heard at the 2012 Senior Bowl that there was interest in him and this is often a common concern. Excellent student of the game, a star in the film room. Knows exactly what he and everyone need to do and where to be. But he's so by the book that chaos (for lack of a better word) throws his game off.

This is one big reason why I just don't think he can ever be more than a reliable back-up/spot starter

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1116620]I've talked to several people in and around the organization about Kirk Cousins since I first heard at the 2012 Senior Bowl that there was interest in him and this is often a common concern. Excellent student of the game, a star in the film room. Knows exactly what he and everyone need to do and where to be. But he's so by the book that chaos (for lack of a better word) throws his game off.

This is one big reason why I just don't think he can ever be more than a reliable back-up/spot starter[/quote]

If Andy Dalton , Matt Cassel and Nick Foles are starters in the NFL then so can Kirk Cousins. Not saying he can be top starter, I don't that's the case. But he can be a middle of the pack starter.

Right now I'm not sure Griffin can be a middle of the pack starter.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=Mattyk;1116614]The author of the article gives him credit for making a nice play with the back shoulder pass. So what about it is garbage exactly?[/quote]

He says KC "struggles against starters." I believe that KC has top passing games in each of his three seasons ( Cleveland 12, Atlanta 13, Philly 14) despite not being the full time starter. He's making it sound like the guy is Cult Brennan. He's had plenty of success against full time starters. Sure he's had his struggles, like every QB that has 9 starts.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1116556]Really, really good article about Cousins and one of the causes for his interceptions.

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/8/15/9159149/hazards-huddle-kirk-cousins-colors-inside-the-lines#]Hazard's Huddle: Kirk Cousins Colors Inside the Lines - Hogs Haven[/url][/quote]

Excellent read.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1116622][B]He says KC "struggles against starters."[/B] I believe that KC has top passing games in each of his three seasons ( Cleveland 12, Atlanta 13, Philly 14) despite not being the full time starter. [B]He's making it sound like the guy is Cult Brennan.[/B] He's had plenty of success against full time starters. Sure he's had his struggles, like every QB that has 9 starts.[/quote]

When you look at him preseason vs regular season, what other conclusion can one make?? Sure he's had some big games, he's also had some absolutely dreadful ones. Overall the article was pretty accurate and fair in pointing out what he does well and what he needs to improve on. I don't see where he's saying he can't improve, or comparing him to a scrub like Brennan.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

So many folks have such strong opinions on their choice in the RGIII / KC issue it just blinds them to objective critique of either.

Whatev's ... haters gotta hat.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

Just 3 more days until we have new reasons to bash RG3.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1116651]Just 3 more days until we have new reasons to bash RG3.[/quote]
You see....that's the kind of indomitable Redskin spirit that keeps us all grounded and looking to the future....

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1116635]So many folks have such strong opinions on their choice in the RGIII / KC issue it just blinds them to objective critique of either.

Whatev's ... haters gotta hat.[/quote]

they're both bad.

do i win?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1116635]So many folks have such strong opinions on their choice in the RGIII / KC issue it just blinds them to objective critique of either.

Whatev's ... haters gotta hat.[/quote]

I believe it's hatters gotta hat.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1116651]Just 3 more days until we have new reasons to bash RG3.[/quote]

omaha, why wait? U saw the rg3 quote today PFT or as I call it Pussy Football Talk...lets just bash everyday.

Damn I wish garçon woulda caught that pass

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1116635]So many folks have such strong opinions on their choice in the RGIII / KC issue it just blinds them to objective critique of either.

Whatev's ... haters gotta hat.[/quote]

I just need one of these guys to step on the field, show growth and lead this team. I don't care who it is...I just wanna win.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1116621]If Andy Dalton , Matt Cassel and Nick Foles are starters in the NFL then so can Kirk Cousins. Not saying he can be top starter, I don't that's the case. But he can be a middle of the pack starter.

Right now I'm not sure Griffin can be a middle of the pack starter.[/quote]

So at best he can be andy dalton... no thank you. And sadly RG3 might be worst than that. It seems more and more likely that the qb of the future is not on the roster.

Sounds like we are revisiting the old debate of Rex Grossman vs john beck

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

It's funny. You compare stats of RG3 with other QBS over a 3 year spam. You would wonder what an expectation Is for some fans.

Perfection is not going to happen folks. We are a ways out from being a strong successful franchise. This is year one of the make over.

Sometimes I wish RG3 would of just had a similar statistic season as Luck or Wilson. Of course. Most fans would be asking for him to be cut after his rookie year if that was the case

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

I agree with Cousins comments, and yes in general he seems to struggle with stressful situations.

But two points:
1) It's hard to just label Kirk as crumbling under stress.. He may be more accurately labeled just -- inconsistent. Remember, he had one of his best games against Seattle, one of the best defenses in the league last year. 283 yards, 2 TDs, no interceptions. He has come in with stressful games in backup -- and delivered wins. Just saying that he doesn't always crumble under pressure -- 3 of the 6 games last year he actually had passer ratings >100 and only 1 interception.. And the other three passer ratings ~60 with 8 interceptions. Sometimes inconsistency gets better with experience.

2) Last year our OLine sucked and our Defense was historically bad leading to: coming from behind / being forced to pass, ineffective running games, and opposing defenses unleashing the pass rush.. This could have contributed to above, and may be better this year.


Just pointing out that we shouldn't give up completely on Cousins. Or Griffin for that matter.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=Bucket;1116668]It's funny. You compare stats of RG3 with other QBS over a 3 year spam. You would wonder what an expectation Is for some fans.

Perfection is not going to happen folks. We are a ways out from being a strong successful franchise. This is year one of the make over.

Sometimes I wish RG3 would of just had a similar statistic season as Luck or Wilson. Of course. Most fans would be asking for him to be cut after his rookie year if that was the case[/quote]

Your letting stats get in the way of what your eyes see.The stat you should be looking at is wins and losses.Since his injury he's just not the same qb,he has shown no improvement since coming back from the injury.His stats are very misleading,you look at his stats and say to yourself damn he's not so bad,but when you watch him play you say damn he's not that good.Dont let the stats fool your eyes.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1116684]Your letting stats get in the way of what your eyes see.The stat you should be looking at is wins and losses.Since his injury he's just not the same qb,he has shown no improvement since coming back from the injury.His stats are very misleading,you look at his stats and say to yourself damn he's not so bad[B],but when you watch him play you say damn he's not that good.Dont let the stats fool your eyes[/B].[/quote]

winner winner chicken dinner

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

Stats are playoff wins....
Everything else is just geek numbers for fantasy players.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Browns
 

[quote=Mattyk;1116632]When you look at him preseason vs regular season, what other conclusion can one make?? [B]Sure he's had some big games, he's also had some absolutely dreadful ones.[/B] Overall the article was pretty accurate and fair in pointing out what he does well and what he needs to improve on. I don't see where he's saying he can't improve, or comparing him to a scrub like Brennan.[/quote]

And this is my point. You could say this about every NFL starter in the NFL. They all "struggled" within those first two years of starting. Why would a 4th rounder be any different?