Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1123645]...These guys who are complaining about coaching like we'd be superbowl bound if only we had Tom Coughlin as a head coach drive me nuts...[/quote]Rrrrriggghhhhtttt. That's exactly what I was saying. Superbowl Baby!


[quote].....we'll be there but don't throw out the positives we've seen and start blaming the coaches.. This is a good start, be excited about it..[/quote]Pointing out coaching mistakes, that EVERY team, even GOOD teams can have in no way means I'm throwing out the positives or not being excited. In fact I'm very excited about our OL and run game and defense (and Rashard Ross). You know what I'm not excited about? Losing. Especially losing winnable games.

Pointing out that the run game was our strength and should be the focal point of the offense is simply an objective observation. Same with playing inadequate players at punt protector when there are superior players avaiable on the roster, same with PR/KR, same with Roberts on 3rd down same with Carrier/Reed blocking DEs 1-on-1. I'm sorry if discussing these coaching mistakes makes you uncomfortable and forced to resort to hyperbole/strawmen.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

It does eventually get down to the players but Gruden is a subpar head coach in over his head.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=30gut;1123642]I have a question for you then (actually a few)...do you think there is someone on the roster that can provide better punt protection then Plummer? Whose responsiblity is it to ensure that the better player was on the field?

Is there a better POA blocking TE then Carrier? Whose responsiblity is it to make sure that McCoy is in the game blocking POA?

Whose job is to recognize that our TEs (other then McCoy) can be effective in combo or double team blocks but not singled up vs a DE?

Whose job is to recognize that Roberts has the drops and not count on him in key spots?

Whose decision is it attack via the pass vs diverse run game with 2-3 TEs?

Whose decision is it not to play Rashard Ross?

Whose decision is to not double ODB?

I can go on...and drill down further into the myriad of coach controlled decisions that can win or lose games.

Coaches matter, scheme matters.

It's why a player succeed in one scheme and fail in another its why rueben droughns can be an 1,000 yard rusher its Alex Smith can go from a bust to solid starting QB...etc...etc...etc...[/quote]

You should put in an application for a coaching position at Redskin Park. You have all the solutions.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

By my count we're down 9 players? Maybe 10? ..Jackson, SL, Galette, Nacho, Hall, Riley, Paulsen, Heyward, Paul...maybe Culliver. An already below average team can not overcome that.

i'm taking a guess that either Paul or Heyward would have been in there on punt protection over the rookie.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=Skinzman;1123647]Stop with the whole strawman bs... No one has predicted a SB trip this year. I said we would be lucky to get to 8 wins prior to the season. However, when we show success at power running, then go away from that on a Thursday night game, I dont feel bad about saying it was bad scheming going into a Thursday night game. We completely rewrote what we did the first two games going into a short week. That is beyond stupid.[/quote]

But you guys seem to think a 7,8 win team is going to look awesome every game. Of course they look mediocre. They are. That's not a coaching issue, that's a roster issue. That's the result of almost 20 years of mismanagement in the FO. Get off your high horses and be realistic. SM is fixing the roster but it's going to take a few seasons. Jay has to scheme to the roster as it is and honestly I think he's done a reasonable job. I didn't say a great job. But you can't expect him to wake up one morning 15 games into being a head coach and expect perfection. You want a veteran, get one, but we hired a first time guy, manage your expectations this year. These guys are trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit and I just want it to taste more like chicken salad than shit for once..

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

This is a game we should win. Kinda surprised by folks who say otherwise, I guess they haven't seen the Eagles play. Injuries aren't an excuse in this league...skins at home, wet weather, against a division rival who is struggling on offense and defense...folks I expect Jay gruden to lead this team to a win....and long week to prepare too? Eagles play really gud special teams we have to be ready, but we should with good coaching.

Looking for the w

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1123685]But you guys seem to think a 7,8 win team is going to look awesome every game. Of course they look mediocre. They are. That's not a coaching issue, that's a roster issue. That's the result of almost 20 years of mismanagement in the FO. Get off your high horses and be realistic. SM is fixing the roster but it's going to take a few seasons. Jay has to scheme to the roster as it is and honestly I think he's done a reasonable job. I didn't say a great job. But you can't expect him to wake up one morning 15 games into being a head coach and expect perfection. You want a veteran, get one, but we hired a first time guy, manage your expectations this year. These guys are trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit and I just want it to taste more like chicken salad than shit for once..[/quote]

Just to clarify...

Im on a high horse because I dont buy into your strawman? Or just that I disagree with you is why im on a high horse?

You have made it clear that you think anyone that doesnt agree with you is somehow flawed. Im not the one on the high horse. If someone wants to disagree with me, let them. Im not here to stop them from disagreeing with me. Doesnt mean I cant put out an opinion and people can disagree with me if they want. You already accused me of trying to start an argument earlier and now you are accusing me of being arrogant because I dont agree with you.

Yes, I think rewriting the game plan from the first two games going into a Thursday game was stupid. Deal with it. If you want to debate that, then lets do it. You obviously want to debate this as you keep responding. But stop trying to mandate my opinion for me or claiming im arrogant when I dont immediately change my opinion to match yours. If you cant handle disagreement, then being online is the wrong place for you.

You think a game plan where KC passes 50 times a game is good. I do not, especially going into a short week.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=Skinzman;1123687]You think a game plan where KC passes 50 times a game is good. I do not, especially going into a short week.[/quote]

Do you believe that was the game plan at opening kick off?

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1123689]Do you believe that was the game plan at opening kick off?[/quote]

Who cares? I go by what they do in game. Calling it the game plan was the wrong way to phrase it. Instead of game plan I should have said play calling.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=Skinzman;1123690]Who cares? I go by what they do in game. Calling it the game plan was the wrong way to phrase it. Instead of game plan I should have said play calling.[/quote]

Do you think we ran the ball effectively against the Giants?

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1123689]Do you believe that was the game plan at opening kick off?[/quote]

Four out of 5 first offensive plays were throws, so yes to your question

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

Please never put Georgia in the top 10 unless they are at least 10-0. That team can never win the big game. Getting merked at home by a solid but not great Bama team.

If we lose to Philly our season is over for playoffs, don't see us beating Atlanta and 1-4 is no bueno. And no I didn't expect playoffs, just mentioning it. I was hoping for 8-8. I'd settle for 7-9. For some reason 6-10 and 7-9 seems like such a HUGE difference. Just get to at least 7 wins please. 3 win increase from last year is solid improvement.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=Chico23231;1123692]Four out of 5 first offensive plays were throws, so yes to your question[/quote]

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=400791484]Redskins vs. Giants - Play-By-Play - September 24, 2015 - ESPN[/url]

You can pick any sample size and make that argument. Like on our 3rd drive we did nothing but run.

The actual play call numbers from the 1st quarter were:

6 running calls and 5 passing calls.

The passing calls increased in the 2nd quarter making the total calls for the 1st half:

14 running plays and 16 passing plays.

That's including the 5th drive with the following 4 pass play calls:

2nd and 13
2nd and 17
3rd and 6
and 3rd and 9.

I realize that one of the 2nd down play calls could have been a run but the other three were probably gonna be passes.

Including our first drive of the 2nd half, the total play calls at that point in the game were:

17 running plays and 20 passing plays.

Considering what a down and distance debacle our 5th drive turned into, it wasn't a pass happy ratio at all.

Then we went down 25 to 6. Everything changed dramatically after that.

I understand the frustration, but the game plan wasn't for Kirk to pass the ball 50 times. We were down by 3 scores trying to play catch up.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1123694][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=400791484]Redskins vs. Giants - Play-By-Play - September 24, 2015 - ESPN[/url]

You can pick any sample size and make that argument. Like on our 3rd drive we did nothing but run.

The actual play call numbers from the 1st quarter were:

6 running calls and 5 passing calls.

The passing calls increased in the 2nd quarter making the total calls for the 1st half:

14 running plays and 16 passing plays.

That's including the 5th drive with the following 4 pass play calls:

2nd and 13
2nd and 17
3rd and 6
and 3rd and 9.

I realize that one of the 2nd down play calls could have been a run but the other three were probably gonna be passes.

Including our first drive of the 2nd half, the play calls were:

17 running plays and 20 passing plays.

Considering what a down and distance debacle our 5th drive turned into, it wasn't a pass happy ratio at all.

Then we went down 25 to 6. Everything changed dramatically after that.

I understand the frustration, but the game plan wasn't for Kirk to pass the ball 50 times. It turned into that in the 2nd half.[/quote]

You do understand that Jay gruden strategy of throw first at the beginning of the game lead us directly to the 9-0 hole?

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=Chico23231;1123697]You do understand that Jay gruden strategy of throw first at the beginning of the game lead us directly to the 9-0 hole?[/quote]

No. I don't understand that at all.

1st drive:

Jay's play calling got us in a 3rd and 2. (How is this bad?)

Then Reed picked somebody like he was in the NBA finals and was called for the penalty.

I guess Jay should have known the 33 yard gain on his 3rd and 2 play call would be erased and they would be in a 3rd and 12.

Then it is Jay's fault for calling a dumb pass play on 3rd and 12. You'd prefer a draw play and then a punt?

Then Breeland runs out of bounds on his own on the 1st punt and is called for the penalty. We have to punt for a second time close to our end zone. Jay should have sat down with him pre-game and explained this confusing rule to him!

Jay should have anchored because he got pushed back across the punter. Or did McLovin make a mistake signing a back up LB who can't play special teams. Or did Kowica forget to tell the guy the low man wins. Or did the guy just make a bad play.

Not sure which, but it has to be Jay's fault.

2nd drive:

He calls a run to Alf. Good call that plays to our strength.

Then our starting left guard goes out and is replaced by all pro back up guard . . .

Oh, NM, He was replaced by McRib.

Jay calls a play action pass out of a run formation with a FB in the game on 2nd and 7 with eight Giants in the box. They are playing run. We call play action. Can't get any better.

7 of the 8 Giant players in the box are on the line of scrimmage ready to hit Alf in the backfield.

BECAUSE THEY JUST SAW MCRIB COME IN THE GAME.

If they would have run the ball on that play it would have gone from 2nd and 7 to 3rd and 9. They were going to abuse McRib.

Then a terrible pass on a route Garcon rounded off.

But somehow it's Jay's fault.

I'm not playing dumb. I probably just am. But I don't understand how Jay led us to 9-0.

I think a handful of our guys made a string of dumb, stupid, bad plays that put us down 9-0.

Reed on the pick. Erased a 33 yard gain. Turned 3rd and 2 into 3rd and 12.

Breeland on the punt penalty. Caused us to re punt.

Plummer stood straight up and got pushed into our punter.

Kirk throws a really dumb pass.

Garcon runs a really sloppy route. (From Cooley's film breakdown.)

[url=http://www.espn980.com/redskins-audio/]Redskins Audio | ESPN 980[/url]

FYI: On a personal note, I really like the play calling from the first two games. I like run first, pass second.

That being said, I don't have any issues with exploiting a defense. I believe they noticed something on film in the Giant's secondary they could take advantage of. Just a hunch, but I think that's why we opened the game the way we did.

It was aggressive, like we were trying to win.

It almost worked with the 33 yard gain erased by penalty.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

This is the game the wheels fall off...Eagles give us a beat down and the team can't recover the rest of the season... 35-10 Eagles.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

SKINS 28 filly 17 !

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

I'll tell you one thing that WON'T happen: one team will not win without the other one sucking major balls. If we win, it's because the Eagles self-destruct and vice versa. Would be nice to watch two teams slug it out and talent trump crazy-shit-happening-because-that's-Redskins-football and the best team come out on top.

I think we win if we can prevent Sam Bradford from having a "get back on track" game. We're good for getting people in a rhythm. Defense is still impressing me, but not quite good enough yet.

Can't predict a score, but if we have NO fuck-ups (INTs, lost fumbles, ST miscues) I think we win. Seems like it shouldn't be a ton to ask.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

In my opinion we have better lines on both sides of the ball. I just don't trust we can not beat ourselves.

It may be a very ugly game.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1123698]...Then Reed picked somebody like he was in the NBA finals and was called for the penalty.

I guess Jay should have known the 33 yard gain on his 3rd and 2 play call would be erased and they would be in a 3rd and 12.[/quote]I'm gonna digress for a second but I hate it when people turn playcalling into nothing more then run/pass choices. What [I]type[/I] of run? What [I]type[/I] of pass...what formation...what personnel..etc......

Anyhow....

Jay didn't have to pass on 3rd and 2. He [I][B]chose[/B][/I] to pass and the result was negative. Just like last year when on 3rd and 2 or less he was pass heavy DESPITE being more productive on the ground in those situations. That's a coaching issue.

[quote]Jay should have anchored because he got pushed back across the punter. Or did McLovin make a mistake signing a back up LB who can't play special teams. Or did Kowica forget to tell the guy the low man wins. Or did the guy just make a bad play.[/quote]A good coach doesn't put his newly signed practice squad LB on punt protect ESPECIALLY when punt protect has already been an issue. Yes, it's Kotwica's fault and as the HC of team (not just the offense but the [U][I][B]team[/B][/I][/U]) its Jay fault for not seeing and correcting the issue. We have other players more capable to play punt protect then Plummer but we didn't have them out there. Yes, it Plummer's fault for getting beat but its a coaching mistake to have him out there in position to fail in the first place.

I really don't understand why its so hard for you to see/accept that as a coaching mistake in addition to being a player mistake?

[quote]If they would have run the ball on that play it would have gone from 2nd and 7 to 3rd and 9. They were going to abuse McRib.[/quote]Lol, well since you already no the outcome of the calls we didn't make then there is nothing to discuss then?

The notion that because a team plays 8 in the box we can't/shouldn't run is dumb. And its also patently incorrect. Hyperbole. Exxageration. Its untrue. A fabrication. A falsehood. A misconception. A myth. A fallacy.

[quote]FYI: On a personal note, I really like the play calling from the first two games. I like run first, pass second.[/quote]Then I'm confused because for me it doesn't logically follow to like the playcalling in those game and also excuse them for not even trying in the Giants game. *shrugs*

[quote]That being said, I don't have any issues with exploiting a defense. I believe they noticed something on film in the Giant's secondary they could take advantage of. Just a hunch, but I think that's why we opened the game the way we did.[/quote]I'm certain they thought they could exploit the Giants via the pass. I'm saying i think that was a mistake because it plays to [I][B]our[/B][/I] weakness....the passing game.

I have no issues with any style of offense provided its effecient and effective.
Trying to attack via the pass and hitting on some throws but missing on more isn't the recipe to win games when we can both productive and efficient with the ground game. The big throws will come J, just be patient and establish the run to start the game.

[quote]It was aggressive, like we were trying to win.[/quote]Puzzled. Correct me if I'm wrong but this seems like you are saying attack via the pass is aggressive and trying to win but establishing the run is not? Even though the games where the team had the best chances to win are the games where we established the run...

We can agree to disagree, but at some point you're gonna have to admit when J makes a coaching mistake. Its okay to watch a game an admit mistakes right? We're allowed to point out a coaching mistake or do you really think the coaching was solid just bad players?

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=Chico23231;1123697]You do understand that Jay gruden strategy of throw first at the beginning of the game lead us directly to the 9-0 hole?[/quote]

N
O

Lol


People belive this shit? This fan base lol

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=Bucket;1123707]N
O

Lol


People belive this shit? This fan base lol[/quote]

Predictable play action when the ball was on our own, what 10 yard line? Are you telling me you didnt know that play when it was ran, immediately? Instead of throwing in a design where instead of running the same ole square in which was jumped by 10 yards by the man coverage which everyone could see as well...on that play action which the ball fake was to the wrong side by the back, why not at least throw in another design? If I know the play, you bet the defense does..

So the 3rd down pick play...we have had several offensive pass interference penalties on pic plays already this season. We ran an obvious pic...good call by the refs...takes us out of a big gain and negates a first down. Poor play call and design. This backs us up so we are punting up against our end zone.

Plummer, who was just signed off the practice squad, obviously pushed back blocking on the first attempt. 2nd attempt do to penalty same guy gets blocked punt. No adjustment by staff.

9-0

Also, are you telling me every team needs a desean jax in order to scheme a deep threat? Without d jax we accept the fact we can't throw a deep ball? We just allow the safeties to play up on the line?

Look around the fucking league, you have lesser qb with much less experience doing a good job. Hell, our oline is twice as good as it was last year.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=Chico23231;1123722]Poor play call and design.[/quote]

It was an awesome play call and design that got a 33 yard gain.

All Reed had to do was turn and extend his arms like he was waiting for the ball. He pretty much extended his arms into the defender in coverage like he was blocking.

You're right, it was an extremely easy call for the official.

The way it worked out on the field probably wasn't how it was practiced.

Just a thought, but maybe they were trying to go after Merriwether's coverage skills just like every team we played last year.

The timing of the call burned the Giant's D.

I believe the execution was bad.

We can agree to disagree.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=30gut;1123706]The notion that because a team plays 8 in the box we can't/shouldn't run is dumb. And its also patently incorrect. Hyperbole. Exxageration. Its untrue. A fabrication. A falsehood. A misconception. A myth. A fallacy. [/quote]

Go back and watch the play.

I think it's a poor choice to run and do not fault the pass play call based on the pre-snap look the defense gave.

You're 100% right. I don't know the outcome of a run call on that particular 2nd and 7.

An end or a D tackle could have had a kidney stone attack and hit the deck and we could have gotten a 1st down.

Other than that, I think it would have gone for a loss or no gain because:

1: McRib just came in and was cold.

2. At the snap 8 Giants were in the box

3. 7 of the 8 in the box were at the line of scrimmage

4. Merriwether was walking down watching our backfield the whole play making the total 9 defenders playing run.

5. The Giants have one of the top run defenses in the league.

6. When a top run defense commits 9 defenders to the stopping the run on a given play, I believe it is a bad idea to call a run on that play.

That being said, I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to all readers of that post for including misleading, false, but certainly not malicious information.

LET ME BE CLEAR. I DO NOT ACTUALLY KNOW IF A RUN WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A 2 YARD LOSS.

I'm sorry. I will try to clean it up, much like Reed's route running on pick plays, in the future.

Hey, look on the bright side. After this year, maybe they can bring in another HC to fix RGIII.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

I would hate it if you were OC. Lol, If a team wanted to stop your run game all they need to do is show you an 8 man box and you wouldn't even try.

You know how teams acclimate an fresh OL into the game? Run the ball. So I disagree completely with LeRib being in the game is a good reason to pass instead of run. I believe the exact opposite is true for most if not all coaches.

I have no idea what your hang up about Griffin has to do with this discussion or anything I've posted regarding this current discussion.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

Finally...the 3rd and 2 pass call--

I don't have a problem with the call itself. The concept and play design was sound just poorly executed. But that is the risk you take with a pass play in that situation. More has to go right for a pass play to work then a run play. There are reasons why passing is lower efficiency then running, passing failure rates are MUCH higher then runs.

And early in the game for a team that fancies itself a run team that was an opportunity to establish the run game.

Further historically the fact remains that we were better running the ball on 3rd and 2 or less then we are passing the ball; that was a fact last year. Now fast forward to this year. We have been improved OL and OL coach. And we were able to run the ball effectively against the Rams D and 8 man front and the Rams DL is better then the Giants. So for me the high efficiency play is to run the ball and we didn't and it failed.

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

It's was a low efficiency play call that could possibly have a higher yield then a run. But that 1st 3rd and 2 situation call more for efficiency then big yards.

To each theirs....

Anyhow cheers to a win today!

Re: Looking ahead to the Eagles
 

[quote=30gut;1123726]I would hate it if you were OC. Lol, If a team wanted to stop your run game all they need to do is show you an 8 man box and you wouldn't even try.

You know how teams acclimate an fresh OL into the game? Run the ball. So I disagree completely with LeRib being in the game is a good reason to pass instead of run. I believe the exact opposite is true for most if not all coaches.
[/quote]

The first part isn't remotely close to what I posted.

The second part was but one of several considerations.

The Giants defensive coordinator agreed with you because he committed 9 guys to stop the run. (I'm counting the safety who ignored the receivers and was staring at our running back the whole play)

I agreed with a pass call on a single play where a great run defense showed before the snap they were selling out to stop the run and then did.

Nothing more.