Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=los panda;1149976]3 games in and doctson is a bust. come on, dawg.

if he does turn out to be malcolm kelly and devin thomas rolled into one, yes, that would blow.

it'll be doctson and crowder for years to come.[/quote]

Brother I hope you are right!! I LOVE CROWDER!!

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=rocnrik;1149999]Brother I hope you are right!! I LOVE CROWDER!![/quote]

i believe

[YT]4p0chD8U8fA[/YT]

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1149995]How about Trent Murphy leading us with 3 sacks??[/quote]

Picking up Kerrigan and Preston smith poor play...I like that!

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1150004]Picking up Kerrigan and Preston smith poor play...I like that![/quote]

What does PFF say about Preston?

Cooley at least for the NY game gave him a very positive grade

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

Smith needs to show up

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1150004]Picking up Kerrigan and Preston smith poor play...I like that![/QUOTE]



I feel like Kerrigan might be the most overrated Redskin of all time.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1150010]I feel like Kerrigan might be the most overrated Redskin of all time.[/quote]

I really hate it but was thinking the same thing.

He gets held but a lot but so does every other pass rusher.

He has to make plays anyway.

Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1150013]I really hate it but was thinking the same thing.



He gets held but a lot but so does every other pass rusher.



He has to make plays anyway.[/QUOTE]



Right every single pass rusher gets held. The good ones either still get after the qb, or they are spinning and swimming fighting and it is just obvious to the refs that there is a hold. He must be the best teammate and a coaches wet dream though. He is solid, but just completely unspectacular. I think he is due for one of his batted ball pick sixes. Lol. Its his best move but only happens once in a blue moon.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

Doctson was a pick for the future, I would almost say put him on the IR for 8 weeks and bring up on of the PS guys. I don't want tendonitis to lead to something much worse if he isn't ready. I still like the guys we picked and look forward to getting to see them play more in the future. Still think Fuller will be a good one.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1150015]Right every single pass rusher gets held. The good ones either still get after the qb, or they are spinning and swimming fighting and it is just obvious to the refs that there is a hold. He must be the best teammate and a coaches wet dream though. He is solid, but just completely unspectacular. I think he is due for one of his batted ball pick sixes. Lol. Its his best move but only happens once in a blue moon.[/quote]

I think he has the potential to be great... but not the killer instinct inside.

We need more people like Baker and Norman on this D. Player that play with fire inside them, people that bring anger to the game. Baker isn't a great player but he plays angry, I like that!

Barry might not be coaching hunger nor anger to these guys either...

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

Christ now Kerrigan is getting the tossed under the bus treatment? Unreal.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1150030]Christ now Kerrigan is getting the tossed under the bus treatment? Unreal.[/quote]

Those statements arent representations of being tossed under the bus.
That phrase is so overused.
Those are observations of Kerrigan.
And rightly so....the guy is vanilla.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

For fuck's sake.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

Getting retarded in here.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

I think we gonna see a lot of players bust out of slumps this weekend...id put Reed in your daily leagues...

Preston Smith and Kerrigan could have big games....

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1150035]I think we gonna see a lot of players bust out of slumps this weekend...id put Reed in your daily leagues...



Preston Smith and Kerrigan could have big games....[/QUOTE]


2 guys will have multiple sacks, lock it up.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1150037]2 guys will have multiple sacks, lock it up.[/quote]

Especially since the Browns RT might be the worst in the NFL.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1150034]Getting retarded in here.[/QUOTE]



Not tossing Kerrigan under the bus. Like Alvin said just an observation. He is a former first round pick, that is not the difference maker that this defense so sorely needs right now. I even made reference to the fact that he is a great teammate and a coaches wet dream. The guy never ever is involved in any on the field or off the field drama. He just doesn't produce the way a veteran and former first rounder should imo. Vanilla is a perfect adjective for him.

Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1150033]For fuck's sake.[/QUOTE]



What is your take on Kerrigans productivity? Would you not like to see a little more out of him at this point? I think it is a fair assessment.
Having two sacks against the Browns would be nice, but that certainly does not make up for sub par performance's against the stiffer competition over the years?

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

I feel like Smith will blow up this game too. For some reason he seems to be able to work the elite OTs. Didn't he own Tyron Smith all of last year?

Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1150035]I think we gonna see a lot of players bust out of slumps this weekend...id put Reed in your daily leagues...



Preston Smith and Kerrigan could have big games....[/QUOTE]



I think Cravens is going to have a huge game. I think the coaches are well aware at this point that he delivers. Its time to officially turn the mad dog loose...

Edit: referencing your big game statement not the one about slumps. Cravens has been solid all year.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1150030]Christ now Kerrigan is getting the tossed under the bus treatment? Unreal.[/quote]

Not throwing anyone under anything. Kerrigan is a good player, just saying we expect more out of him, and he has not consistently been at his best level.

I put part of that on Barry, I don't feel like he's a coach that breeds the killers inside his players.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

Kerrigan is slightly above average(aka...good player). He isn't a world beater, but he isn't some scrub either. He by far is the least of our worries on the defense though.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

I think at this point we know what Kerrigan is. He's a solid player against the run, is going to average about 10 sacks a year, and will be a great locker room guy. You need guys like that to win rings (yes, I think he's worth his contract). I hope he's on the team for many more years. The only "problem" is you have to find a way to produce at least 22 more sacks a season (need to at least average 2 a game as a team) and right now we don't have the guys to do it straight up. Something to work on in the off season and draft.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

And above all else just please win this game. With our schedule this year this is a game we have to have.

Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1150039]Not tossing Kerrigan under the bus. Like Alvin said just an observation. He is a former first round pick, that is not the difference maker that this defense so sorely needs right now. I even made reference to the fact that he is a great teammate and a coaches wet dream. The guy never ever is involved in any on the field or off the field drama. He just doesn't produce the way a veteran and former first rounder should imo. Vanilla is a perfect adjective for him.[/QUOTE]


You said he might be the most overrated Redskin of all time. That's just a ridiculous statement. A guy that averages 9.5 sacks a year is not vanilla.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/20219/terrelle-pryor-eager-to-test-himself-against-josh-norman]Terrelle Pryor eager to test himself against Josh Norman - Cleveland Browns Blog- ESPN[/url]

is this a thing now? Opponents openly talk about Josh Norman. Steelers it was big ben and brown. I dont remember hearing much from boys leading up to our game. Giants obviously a lot of talk leading up to OBJ ..

.... and now Pryor and Coach Hue from the Browns.

Im interested to see Pryor and if he can actually be a long term NFL contributing player vs being the only target on a talentless team.

Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1150045]Kerrigan is slightly above average. He isn't a world beater, but he isn't some scrub either. He by far is the least of our worries on the defense though.[/QUOTE]



Agreed 100% but as a former first rounder, and veteran, slightly above average is soooo meh. Especially when our defense needs above average so bad.

Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1150049]You said he might be the most overrated Redskin of all time. That's just a ridiculous statement. A guy that averages 9.5 sacks a year is not vanilla.[/QUOTE]



I didn't really mean that statement as a knock. Also maybe overrated is not exactly the best way to say what I meant.
Maybe "flies under the radar"? In other words, we used a first round pick. He had a real nice 2014. Those other years, and I would have to research, but it feels like he will have a couple games where he has multiple sacks (like the Browns prediction you made) but in big games he is just invisible?
Again not knocking him or throwing him under the bus. he appears to be a class act and hell of a teammate, and that is worth something. But as far as his job on the field goes it is , like others have said, slightly above average or average. He does not have a lot of different moves or techniques. He sort of just bull rushes play after play. I think that is where the vanilla comes in.

I just looked at his game logs since 2011. You can see where he has several multi sack games, but there are stretches of weeks where he does zilch. Even 2014 he had a four sack game. Most great, or even really good , pass rushers that have a four sack game are going to probably have more than 14 on the year? However I will leave 2014 out of this. It was a real solid year for him.

I am not down on the team right now. This is not burn it down talk. I do not think he needs to go. Lol. Just weekday babble on my overall feelings of What Kerrigan is bringing to the table on a consistent basis in year 6 of his career....

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;1150050][url=http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/20219/terrelle-pryor-eager-to-test-himself-against-josh-norman]Terrelle Pryor eager to test himself against Josh Norman - Cleveland Browns Blog- ESPN[/url]

is this a thing now? Opponents openly talk about Josh Norman. Steelers it was big ben and brown. I dont remember hearing much from boys leading up to our game. Giants obviously a lot of talk leading up to OBJ ..

.... and now Pryor and Coach Hue from the Browns.

Im interested to see Pryor and if he can actually be a long term NFL contributing player vs being the only target on a talentless team.[/quote]

Good. Josh seems to feed from the noise, and convert it in hunger on the field. He's been at his best through the first 3 games, I was worrying at first but it became obvious he likes to be talked about as the bad guy, and he uses that on the field.

Bring it to him before the game, cuz he'll bring it to you during the game!

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

For the 16th overall pick, I think Kerrigan has played above his reasonable expectation level.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2011]National Football League: NFL Draft History[/url]
^^ that draft was loaded with top level talent

[url=http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13973/ryan-kerrigan]Ryan Kerrigan Stats - Washington Redskins - ESPN[/url]
^^ wow, didnt know Kerrigan has played every single game of his career. That right there qualifies as a value player imo. Very consistent with avg 9 sacks per year.

----------------

Kerrigan currently is 31st on the list of most sacks by an active player.

Other 2011 drafted players sack totals - watt (76), von miller (65), houston (56), quinn (52), kerrigan (49), c jordan (40.5), wilkerson (38)

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/sacks_active.htm]NFL Active Sacks Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

Compared to his 2011 peers, Kerrigan is right there where he needs to be.

----------------

Skins all time sack leaders?

Manley - 91 sacks in 8 years
Mann - 82 sacks in 10 years
Kerrigan - 47.5 sacks in 5 years (im not counting the 1.5 sacks in 3 games this year)
Coleman - 43.5 sacks in 15 years
Harvey - 41.5 sacks in 4 years

[url=http://hubpages.com/sports/Washington-Redskins-All-Time-Sack-Leaders]Washington Redskins’ All-Time Sack Leaders[/url] (2010 article)

Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;1150054]For the 16th overall pick, I think Kerrigan has played above his reasonable expectation level.



[url=http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2011]National Football League: NFL Draft History[/url]

^^ that draft was loaded with top level talent



[url=http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13973/ryan-kerrigan]Ryan Kerrigan Stats - Washington Redskins - ESPN[/url]

^^ wow, didnt know Kerrigan has played every single game of his career. That right there qualifies as a value player imo. Very consistent with avg 9 sacks per year.



----------------



Kerrigan currently is 31st on the list of most sacks by an active player.



Other 2011 drafted players sack totals - watt (76), von miller (65), houston (56), quinn (52), kerrigan (49), c jordan (40.5), wilkerson (38)



[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/sacks_active.htm]NFL Active Sacks Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]



Compared to his 2011 peers, Kerrigan is right there where he needs to be.



----------------



Skins all time sack leaders?



Manley - 91 sacks in 8 years

Mann - 82 sacks in 10 years

Kerrigan - 47.5 sacks in 5 years (im not counting the 1.5 sacks in 3 games this year)

Coleman - 43.5 sacks in 15 years

Harvey - 41.5 sacks in 4 years



[url=http://hubpages.com/sports/Washington-Redskins-All-Time-Sack-Leaders]Washington Redskins’ All-Time Sack Leaders[/url] (2010 article)[/QUOTE]



Thanks OTM. Much more substance to the discussion here than "for fucks sake" or retarded. Lol
These stats really lend to the fact that he should be considered more than an average player. Or even slightly above. He is not because alot of his 50 some odd sacks came in games where we were up against a weak oline or weak team. Hence all of the multi sack games coupled with all the goose eggs.
Edit: almost tantamount to garbage time yards by a qb that inflate his numbers.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

Kerrigan hasn't been great so far this year, but this thread has gotten insane. I thought I might be on the drunk thread the last couple pages.

lets pump the brakes a bit

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

People seem to have really skewed opinions of what a good player is these days.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

Please don't forget forced fumbles and TDs:

Quinn: 19
Miller: 18
Kerrigan: 18
Watt: 15
Wilkerson: 10
Houston: 8
C. Jordan: 6

Three of this list have 2 TDs in their career: Watt, Miller, Kerrigan.

So Top 5 in sacks, tied for 2nd in FF and tied for 1st in scoring is vanilla and over rated?

that is numbers alone....not including leadership, locker room value, team first mentality, work ethic.....etc, etc

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;1150050][url=http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/20219/terrelle-pryor-eager-to-test-himself-against-josh-norman]Terrelle Pryor eager to test himself against Josh Norman - Cleveland Browns Blog- ESPN[/url]

is this a thing now? Opponents openly talk about Josh Norman. Steelers it was big ben and brown. I dont remember hearing much from boys leading up to our game. Giants obviously a lot of talk leading up to OBJ ..

.... and now Pryor and Coach Hue from the Browns.

Im interested to see Pryor and if he can actually be a long term NFL contributing player vs being the only target on a talentless team.[/quote]

Norman gonna shut this dude down. So he had a big game against Miami, who gives a sh*t?

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

RK only has a bull rush move. That's it. He hasn't developed his game at all, reminds me of Rak. Just average. But I also think it's the coaches responsibility to mix things up if Kerrigan and Co aren't getting sacks/pressure.

If these coaches had any creativity they'd move guys around, stunt more, zone blitz, just do something if we're not getting home.

I was watching the replay of the Vikings and they just got after Newton. Mixing up coverages, blitzing, zone blitzing, they just had him totally confused. Think our stale ass coaches could put a game plan like that together this week against a rookie? Nope. Not a chance in hell.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

Kerrigan could get our sack record cause of longevity. Not slighting him at all but he couldn't wear Dexter's jock
Had Manley not been a junkie and kept his head on straight he could have been in the HOF.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1150062]RK only has a bull rush move. That's it. He hasn't developed his game at all, reminds me of Rak. Just average. But I also think it's the coaches responsibility to mix things up if Kerrigan and Co aren't getting sacks/pressure.

If these coaches had any creativity they'd move guys around, stunt more, zone blitz, just do something if we're not getting home.

I was watching the replay of the Vikings and they just got after Newton. Mixing up coverages, blitzing, zone blitzing, they just had him totally confused. Think our stale ass coaches could put a game plan like that together this week against a rookie? Nope. Not a chance in hell.[/quote]

Yes, I would like to see more stunts and movement up front. RK does do the bull rush move but he also is pretty quick using his hands to get release and can go inside or outside.

Re: Brown Frown Pregame Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1150051]Agreed 100% but as a former first rounder, and veteran, slightly above average is soooo meh. Especially when our defense needs above average so bad.[/quote]

The wording was bad, that much I'll admit. I should have said he's a good player, not a great one. He's not going to be able to carry a defense on his back. He was/is still a lot better than Orakpo in my opinion. Second best defensive player we have on the team.