Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1186395]List me the benefits Russia and the Russian Gov't have received due to the Trump administration.[/QUOTE]



Russia doesn’t have a government. They have a thug dictator and his fellow oligarchs who pose as one. Anyway Can I just say shady business/real estate deals worth billions and be done? My daughter forgot her lunch and im in a rush. [emoji23]

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=punch it in;1186396]Russia doesn’t have a government. They have a thug dictator and his fellow oligarchs who pose as one. [B]Anyway Can I just say shady business/real estate deals worth billions and be done?[/B] My daughter forgot her lunch and im in a rush. [emoji23][/quote]

LOL...ok Alex Jones...you keep chasing them windmills.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1186397]LOL...ok Alex Jones...you keep chasing them windmills.[/QUOTE]



Are you saying the Russian government is legit? Lol

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

I had no idea that Putin being a dictator and opposition mysteriously being gunned down in the streets or the absolute greed that thwarts the Russian people was considered conspiracy. I thought it was pretty much accepted as fact? As were Trumps business dealings with these oligarchs? What part do you doubt?

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1186352]I didn't deflect. I asked for a specific example of a failed wall and you gave a answer that was basically filled with dumb comments. If you can cite 2 failed walls I will gladly debunk your obviously fallacious arguments.[/quote]

[url]https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/08/donald-trump-2016-wall-wont-work-214167[/url]

[url=http://www.newsweek.com/what-history-tells-us-about-building-wall-solve-problem-381875]What History Tells Us About Building a Wall to Solve a Problem[/url]


[url]https://www.indy100.com/article/a-map-of-the-six-european-countries-who-have-built-a-wall-to-stop-migrants-7320271[/url]
[url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/27/us/walls-along-borders-nothing-new/index.html]Nations have built walls on borders for thousands of years - CNN[/url]





Now how do you build a Wall around Florida, Me, Alaska or Hawaii? The West Coast ,the East coast?????

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1186394]Not painting Trump as a victim, but the hate for him that is out there causes his opponents to go to the nth degree of opposition. It's what it is. I feel the same toward HC and am glad Trump is in the WH and not her.

In 2020 we will see where the electorate is. If he makes it that long.[/quote]

You can't understand the hate for trump ,yet you say you feel the same about Hillary? Like her or not ....Hillary would not be making this country look like a bunch of asshole's. Politicians lie I get it but to not see the blatant ignorance of trump and his total disdain for the American people\citizens is borderline moronic.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

"Big win for Republicans as Democrats cave on Shutdown. Now I want a big win for everyone, including Republicans, Democrats and DACA, but especially for our Great Military and Border Security. Should be able to get there. See you at the negotiating table!"

-Moobs and G1 beastie via twitter.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=Giantone;1186403][url]https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/08/donald-trump-2016-wall-wont-work-214167[/url]

[url=http://www.newsweek.com/what-history-tells-us-about-building-wall-solve-problem-381875]What History Tells Us About Building a Wall to Solve a Problem[/url]


[url]https://www.indy100.com/article/a-map-of-the-six-european-countries-who-have-built-a-wall-to-stop-migrants-7320271[/url]
[url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/27/us/walls-along-borders-nothing-new/index.html]Nations have built walls on borders for thousands of years - CNN[/url]





Now how do you build a Wall around Florida, Me, Alaska or Hawaii? The West Coast ,the East coast?????[/quote]
I will give you a C for effort.
-In your first article it listed 3 main wall attempts with no increased immigration as a result
-In your second article it listed 5 main wall attempts with no increased immigration, and several successful walls
-In your third article it pointed out that 6 European countries currently are using walls as part of their border security with no ill effect

below I have broken out all 3 articles :
Article 1:
1)Israel/Palestine. The article offers no proof one way or the other, but argues that it creates a political backlash, and increases the anger and propensity toward violence in a space smaller than NJ. Clearly that outcome would not translate across the US Mexico border, as we aren't foreshadowing a military clash with Mexico.
2) The Berlin wall. Again, the wall itself worked, the state behind the wall failed. We aren't trying to keep our citizens from escaping, although alot of Dems were supposed to have left by now.
3) US Mexico: They state we have built 651 miles of wall, and that undocumented migration into the U.S. is at its lowest level since the 1970s; but state that you can't prove it's the wall so there.

Article 2:
[LIST][*]The great wall (which worked for 14 centuries - I'm ok if the border wall only lasts 10)[*]the berlin wall - no one would argue it did not stop illegal crossings (razor wire, mine fields and snipers help to)[*]The belfast peace wall - the article sums it up this way [B]"In 2013, Northern Irish lawmakers proposed tearing down the peace walls by 2023, but many residents believe violence would reignite if the walls were removed."[/B][*]West bank wall - the article makes no claim either way about its effectiveness but adds "Israel has another fence along its western border with Egypt, which was built to stem the "unfettered flow of illegal infiltrators, the smuggling of drugs and weapons" into Israel, ...[B]The wall was a success: 43 African migrants entered Israel in 2013, compared to 17,000 in 2011.[/B]"[*]Hungary - The article doesn't state the before and after, but Wikipedia lists it as follows- During the month of September 2015 there was a total number of 138,396 migrant entries, and by the first two weeks of November the average daily number of intercepted migrants decreased to only 15, which is [B]a daily reduction of more than 4,500[/B][/LIST]Article 3 simply outlines the current European countries using walls as part of their border security.

So you get a C because you finally responded, but you truly proved my point that in all the world, where walls have been used to limit migration, successful outcomes were far more common and the worst outcomes were ambiguous results. In no case in those three articles did a wall clearly worsen the immigration pattern.


[B]And to answer to your question[/B], no one is suggesting building walls around the east coast , west coast, Hawaii, Alaska, FL, or the northern states. Those places are better served by increased Coast Guard and Border Patrol presence as well as good port of entry security.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=Giantone;1186405]You can't understand the hate for trump ,yet you say you feel the same about Hillary? Like her or not ....Hillary would not be making this country look like a bunch of asshole's. Politicians lie I get it but to not see the blatant ignorance of trump and his total disdain for the American people\citizens is borderline moronic.[/quote]

I understand the hate for Trump. Never said I didn't. But HC would have put a terrible SC justice on the bench. We would not be seeing a tax cut. The economy would have stayed in neutral, and identity politics would have been even worse. HC is as corrupt and evil a person as we have conceivably seen, but, like the devil, she knows how to look angelic and fool sheep. Trump is just a moron.

Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1186422]I understand the hate for Trump. Never said I didn't. But HC would have put a terrible SC justice on the bench. We would not be seeing a tax cut. The economy would have stayed in neutral, and identity politics would have been even worse. HC is as corrupt and evil a person as we have conceivably seen, but, like the devil, she knows how to look angelic and fool sheep. Trump is just a moron.[/QUOTE]



Have you seen a pay increase personally?
Edit: I dont dabble in the stock market so i dont care. Those bastards dont share so dont give me it creates this and that. It creates more money for them is all. My 401 k has not doubled. Lol. Its crazy because only people who voted for Trump seem to have new found money somewhere?
As for the SCJ of course you are going to think a liberal is terrible if ur not liberal. Identity politics- well - when u have a Billionaire telling the middle class he is going to drain the swamp, but he actually is looking out for his and his cohorts taxes and real estate loopholes, etc etc it may appear as though there are no identity politics going on BUT in reality he couldn’t be identifying more with the billionaires. Hell he even gave them all jobs. Please.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=punch it in;1186431]Have you seen a pay increase personally?[/quote]

I work for scrooge mcduck ;). No but honestly, my employer and I have an agreed upon structure that has worked for us both for the past few years. I am nosy to see the tax difference come 1 Feb, or whenever the IRS publishes the new guidelines.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1186433]I work for scrooge mcduck ;). No but honestly, my employer and I have an agreed upon structure that has worked for us both for the past few years. I am nosy to see the tax difference come 1 Feb, or whenever the IRS publishes the new guidelines.[/QUOTE]



I added to my post [emoji846]
I am no economist but dont be fooled by a published guideline - my spidey senses tell me that within the next several years - the difference in class will be even more pronounced and that just doesn’t bode well for anyone who is not a millionaire already.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=punch it in;1186435]I added to my post [emoji846]
I am no economist but dont be fooled by a published guideline - my spidey senses tell me that within the next several years - the difference in class will be even more pronounced and that just doesn’t bode well for anyone who is not a millionaire already.[/quote]

for what it's worth, I'd be ok with a billionaire tax that was a direct redistribution. Meaning every billionaire had a straight 20% tax that went to those making in the bottom 15-25%, no conditions, no governmental rules, just a straight redistribution.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1186439]for what it's worth, I'd be ok with a billionaire tax that was a direct redistribution. Meaning every billionaire had a straight 20% tax that went to those making in the bottom 15-25%, no conditions, no governmental rules, just a straight redistribution.[/QUOTE]



Of course. That is a game changer. It also is not at all what is going on unfortunately.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=punch it in;1186448]Of course. That is a game changer. It also is not at all what is going on unfortunately.[/quote]

yeah, I'm obviously not much of a globalist, in case you had any doubts LOL, but if the worlds billionaires were forced/required to "tithe" to the poorest humans the world would be a tremendously different place.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1186449]yeah, I'm obviously not much of a globalist, in case you had any doubts LOL, but if the worlds billionaires were forced/required to "tithe" to the poorest humans the world would be a tremendously different place.[/QUOTE]



Chances are most of them stepped all over the poor, whether directly or indirectly, to get there anyway. Or they were born into it. Or both. Like Trump. [emoji23]

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=Chico23231;1186395]List me the benefits Russia and the Russian Gov't have received due to the Trump administration.[/quote]

Aren't talks in the works to let Exxon go drilling in the northern Russia arctic lands? I'm a little hazy on the details but I remember something about sanctions holding them up, but IIRC Trump/co. are/were trying to get rid of the sanctions?

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=mooby;1186484]Aren't talks in the works to let Exxon go drilling in the northern Russia arctic lands? I'm a little hazy on the details but I remember something about sanctions holding them up, but IIRC Trump/co. are/were trying to get rid of the sanctions?[/quote]

[url=http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/21/news/companies/trump-exxon-russia-sanctions/index.html]Trump denies Exxon permission to drill for oil in Russia - Apr. 21, 2017[/url]

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1186484]Aren't talks in the works to let Exxon go drilling in the northern Russia arctic lands? I'm a little hazy on the details but I remember something about sanctions holding them up, but IIRC Trump/co. are/were trying to get rid of the sanctions?[/QUOTE]



When you really pay attention to the facts the connections run so deep it becomes painfully obvious. But since the fake news bullshit has caught fire anything can simply be dismissed. Even if there is legit proof. His base wouldn’t mind if he gunned someone down on fifth avenue right? He is just barking at the moon but Mueller knows everything we do and more. We got another few weeks until it all comes out in the wash. But Trump knows that his base will believe him regardless of fake proof. The proof needs proof and that proof needs proof. He has them all primed with his fake news and witch hunt bologna. There is absolutely no doubt that the Russians wanted him elected. And there is no doubt he and his entire posse were all for it. One is a coffee boy. One he hardly knew. Is it really just coincidence that pretty much everyone in the posse has either lied about contacts with russia? No sanctions. Kushner has major ties. His whole family did. Trump was doing business with every Russian banker and has the balls to say he has no interests in Russia? The facts are all out there.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1186495]When you really pay attention to the facts the connections run so deep it becomes painfully obvious. But since the fake news bullshit has caught fire anything can simply be dismissed. Even if there is legit proof. His base wouldn’t mind if he gunned someone down on fifth avenue right? He is just barking at the moon but Mueller knows everything we do and more. We got another few weeks until it all comes out in the wash. But Trump knows that his base will believe him regardless of fake proof. The proof needs proof and that proof needs proof. He has them all primed with his fake news and witch hunt bologna. There is absolutely no doubt that the Russians wanted him elected. And there is no doubt he and his entire posse were all for it. One is a coffee boy. One he hardly knew. Is it really just coincidence that pretty much everyone in the posse has either lied about contacts with russia? No sanctions. Kushner has major ties. His whole family did. Trump was doing business with every Russian banker and has the balls to say he has no interests in Russia? The facts are all out there.[/QUOTE]When these probes reach their final resolution one side or both are going to implode. I think you are correct that at this point Mueller's probe is seen by Trump supporters as tainted beyond repair, I certainly do. Likewise those who hold your viewpoint of Trump would not accept it if the investigation somehow ended with no indictment of Trump or his inner circle.

No matter what outcome there likely will be serious consequences from the masses. I am talking about riots, and serious civil unrest.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1186485][url=http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/21/news/companies/trump-exxon-russia-sanctions/index.html]Trump denies Exxon permission to drill for oil in Russia - Apr. 21, 2017[/url][/quote]

That's good enough for me. Thanks.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=Chico23231;1186395]List me the benefits Russia and the Russian Gov't have received due to the Trump administration.[/quote]

I don't know if these are benefits?


[url=http://billmoyers.com/story/heres-whats-new-trump-russia-timeline/]Newest Additions to Our Trump-Russia Timeline[/url]

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=mooby;1186515]That's good enough for me. Thanks.[/quote]



CRedskinsRule is right and here is another article that's pretty good.



[url=http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-oil-sanctions-impact-on-exxon-deal-2017-7]Russia oil sanctions impact on Exxon deal - Business Insider[/url]

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=Giantone;1186516]I don't know if these are benefits?


[url=http://billmoyers.com/story/heres-whats-new-trump-russia-timeline/]Newest Additions to Our Trump-Russia Timeline[/url][/quote]

The struggle to find even a hint of softening of policy toward Russia is evidence enough...in fact the administration has actually made it extremely hard on Russia and their allies. Trump bombed Syria with Russian troops in the area, the administration recently sold anti tank weapon systems to the Ukraine, and the administration has pressured Iran repeatedly a Russian ally in the Middle East...

Sanctions have continued against Russia. The approach with Russia has been much stronger than the previous administration which had their ass handed to them repeatedly. In fact, the previous administration did vey little to stop the meddling in the 2016 elections.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

LOL, no trump has tried to make it easier.
[url=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/timeline-trumps-delays-russia-sanctions/story?id=50733408]Timeline of Trump's delays on Russia sanctions - ABC News[/url]

[url]https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/25/16548688/trump-administration-delaying-russia-sanctions[/url]


[url]https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/28/16055630/congress-trump-russia-sanctions-veto[/url]


[url=http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/25/politics/trump-russia-sanctions/index.html]White House facing scrutiny for Russia sanctions delay - CNNPolitics[/url]

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=Giantone;1186524]LOL, no trump has tried to make it easier.
[url=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/timeline-trumps-delays-russia-sanctions/story?id=50733408]Timeline of Trump's delays on Russia sanctions - ABC News[/url]

[url]https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/25/16548688/trump-administration-delaying-russia-sanctions[/url]


[url]https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/28/16055630/congress-trump-russia-sanctions-veto[/url]


[url=http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/25/politics/trump-russia-sanctions/index.html]White House facing scrutiny for Russia sanctions delay - CNNPolitics[/url][/quote]

Here is recent relevant facts for you published within the last day by Newsweek : [url=http://www.newsweek.com/putin-meddled-didnt-get-what-he-wanted-785890]What Did Putin Want From Trump And What Did He Actually Get?[/url]

They are based and reference experts from think tanks like the Brookings Inst and The Center for Strategic and International Studies in G-town.

Trying to woke you up this morning

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=Chico23231;1186527]Here is recent relevant facts for you published within the last day by Newsweek : [url=http://www.newsweek.com/putin-meddled-didnt-get-what-he-wanted-785890]What Did Putin Want From Trump And What Did He Actually Get?[/url]

They are based and reference experts from think tanks like the Brookings Inst and The Center for Strategic and International Studies in G-town.

Trying to woke you up this morning[/quote]

Sorry to piss on your Wheaties but to educate you,I showed that it's not trump but "Congress" that is giving trumps butt buddy putin a hard time ,clearly it's not trump.Next time actually read the links.


P.S
Did you even read your own link?


yeah, you woke me.:doh:

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=Giantone;1186534]Sorry to piss on your Wheaties but to educate you,I showed that it's not trump but "Congress" that is giving trumps butt buddy putin a hard time ,clearly it's not trump.Next time actually read the links.


P.S
Did you even read your own link?


yeah, you woke me.:doh:[/quote]

Yeah...its mirrors what I had stated previously but breezes over a major point, but is found in a Newsweek article from last year...

[url=http://www.newsweek.com/nolan-peterson-trump-bolsters-european-defenses-against-putin-616668]Nolan Peterson: Trump Bolsters European Defenses Against Putin[/url]

[B]Trump’s 2018 budget calls for a $1.4 billion increase in ERI funds—a 41 percent increase over the $3.4 billion tagged in 2017 by the Obama administration. [/B]The move, which U.S. military forces in Europe praised, sent a reassuring message to both NATO’s eastern flank as well as countries throughout Eastern Europe that see Russia as an existential threat and are looking for U.S. protection.


Trump is a lil contrary on what he says and what he does...but this was an absolute clear statement to Russia


And good morning G1 :D.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

Good morning Chico. Has Trump called out Russia on trying to influence the election yet? Because US intelligence believes Russia has its' fingerprints all over the DNC hacking and mounting a campaign to sway people's opinions through fake news online on places like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. Ever heard of the TEN_GOP Twitter account that had 600k followers? That was ran by the Russians.

I also believe US intelligence way more than I believe our very stable genius President.
I'm not gonna dispute Trump stepping up our Eastern-Euro defenses is a message, that's a good thing. But Russia has had a manipulation campaign going for a while now.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1186558]Good morning Chico. Has Trump called out Russia on trying to influence the election yet? Because US intelligence believes Russia has its' fingerprints all over the DNC hacking and mounting a campaign to sway people's opinions through fake news online on places like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. Ever heard of the TEN_GOP Twitter account that had 600k followers? That was ran by the Russians.

I also believe US intelligence way more than I believe our very stable genius President.
I'm not gonna dispute Trump stepping up our Eastern-Euro defenses is a message, that's a good thing. But Russia has had a manipulation campaign going for a while now.[/QUOTE]I wonder what people think our enemies do with themselves. We know our government works to influence both our allies and enemies political systems. Why would our enemies not be doing the same. The whole Russia tried to influence our election theme seems like a kid at recess crying because he gets picked on at dodgeball.

The question of if they were successful or not seems like an indictment of our FBI and the DNC in terms of not taking appropriate steps to protect their data, not some shocking revelation of political intrigue.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1186586]I wonder what people think our enemies do with themselves. We know our government works to influence both our allies and enemies political systems. Why would our enemies not be doing the same. The whole Russia tried to influence our election theme seems like a kid at recess crying because he gets picked on at dodgeball.

The question of if they were successful or not seems like an indictment of our FBI and the DNC in terms of not taking appropriate steps to protect their data, not some shocking revelation of political intrigue.[/quote]

So are you saying we should let it slide because the US does it too? I am saying you literally had a fake news account with 600,000 subscribers tweeting out bullshit that people were literally taking as fact because they thought it was ran by the GOP. Now yes, I blame that much more on Twitter/etc making it easy for bots/people with ill intent than the gov't but you really don't think that's an issue? All this crying about fake news when you literally have Russians spreading fake news to spread discord amongst us? I'm not even putting this all on the right either, it's a widespread problem on both sides. I'm literally dumbfounded you think the spread of misinformation to influence people is akin to kids crying at recess because they got picked on at dodgeball.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1186595]So are you saying we should let it slide because the US does it too? I am saying you literally had a fake news account with 600,000 subscribers tweeting out bullshit that people were literally taking as fact because they thought it was ran by the GOP. Now yes, I blame that much more on Twitter/etc making it easy for bots/people with ill intent than the gov't but you really don't think that's an issue? All this crying about fake news when you literally have Russians spreading fake news to spread discord amongst us? I'm not even putting this all on the right either, it's a widespread problem on both sides. I'm literally dumbfounded you think the spread of misinformation to influence people is akin to kids crying at recess because they got picked on at dodgeball.[/QUOTE]I am saying our electorate is filled with people who can't think and distinguish facts and democracy depends on voters who can think with more than just emotional heart strings.

Do I wish the world was a loving kind place where no country lied or used deceit? Sure. Do I think calling the Russians out for something they have been doing since the cold war days is of major importance? Not really. Putin was the head of the KGB for chrissakes, the things we know he is doing don't even compare to what we can't see.

I also am far more worried that our FBI, and intelligence services seemed to spend more time trying to play political games than actually working with facebook/twitter to take down obvious hacks.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1186596]I am saying our electorate is filled with people who can't think and distinguish facts and democracy depends on voters who can think with more than just emotional heart strings.

Do I wish the world was a loving kind place where no country lied or used deceit? Sure. Do I think calling the Russians out for something they have been doing since the cold war days is of major importance? Not really. Putin was the head of the KGB for chrissakes, the things we know he is doing don't even compare to what we can't see.

[B]I also am far more worried that our FBI, and intelligence services seemed to spend more time trying to play political games than actually working with facebook/twitter to take down obvious hacks.[/B][/quote]

It's interesting that this hasn't happened or been brought to light in the past. It's one common denominator and that's the asshole-in-chief. When multiple sources, both civilian and government are talking about what an asshole or a moron Drumpf is, at what point does that make it true? He's not some savant we're talking about here. I'm semi-young, but I don't recall Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 or Obama having his intelligence officers calling them an idiot. Maybe it's the technological society we live in these days...

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1186597]It's interesting that this hasn't happened or been brought to light in the past. It's one common denominator and that's the asshole-in-chief. When multiple sources, both civilian and government are talking about what an asshole or a moron Drumpf is, at what point does that make it true? He's not some savant we're talking about here. I'm semi-young, but I don't recall Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 or Obama having his intelligence officers calling them an idiot. Maybe it's the technological society we live in these days...[/quote]

I have my own thoughts, which i obviously like to share :).
1) I think that the FBI especially had nearly a 16 year period, both Bush and Obama's presidencies, where the upper echelon of the Bureau became far more politically sensitive. And I think Pres Obama was more willing to use the powers of the state for political purposes, the best example is the IRS scandal with Tea Party groups, but I imagine there are others as well.

2) I think that the world of social media has given everyone more willingness to buy into their world, and to view the other side with arrogance. I do think the left is more guilty of that but of course that could ironically just be my arrogance. I mean even this discourse, here we are on a football site debating the merits or lack there of everything politics. In the not too long past that was reserved to the halls of "great thinkers" with debate being a civil call for honest discussion. Now debate is little more than posting 3 links and calling your opponent a moron, or something of that nature.

3) Finally, I think you are a little naive if you don't remember Bush being called an idiot on many occasions while Obama was the Nobel Prize savior of the world. Before that Reagan was a gentle idiot that wanted to start bombing in 5 minutes while Clinton was just the wisest man of his time. There is a distinct bias in how people who stand for America first, and "american values" are viewed versus the wisdom of the global village.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

It's funny because I remember it the other way with Reagan and Clinton. Reagan being responsible for economic progress (we were told it just took to the early 90s for it to progress) and the end of the cold war. Clinton was the poster child for infidelity and bashed repeatedly by the media for it. I guess that goes to your point about how we can look at the same media sources and see bias.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1186650]It's funny because I remember it the other way with Reagan and Clinton. Reagan being responsible for economic progress (we were told it just took to the early 90s for it to progress) and the end of the cold war. Clinton was the poster child for infidelity and bashed repeatedly by the media for it. I guess that goes to your point about how we can look at the same media sources and see bias.[/quote]

Good points

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1186599]I have my own thoughts, which i obviously like to share :).
1) I think that the FBI especially had nearly a 16 year period, both Bush and Obama's presidencies, where the upper echelon of the Bureau became far more politically sensitive. And I think Pres Obama was more willing to use the powers of the state for political purposes, the best example is the IRS scandal with Tea Party groups, but I imagine there are others as well.

2) I think that the world of social media has given everyone more willingness to buy into their world, and to view the other side with arrogance. I do think the left is more guilty of that but of course that could ironically just be my arrogance. I mean even this discourse, here we are on a football site debating the merits or lack there of everything politics. In the not too long past that was reserved to the halls of "great thinkers" with debate being a civil call for honest discussion. Now debate is little more than posting 3 links and calling your opponent a moron, or something of that nature.

3) [B]Finally, I think you are a little naive if you don't remember Bush being called an idiot on many occasions while Obama was the Nobel Prize savior of the world.[/B] Before that Reagan was a gentle idiot that wanted to start bombing in 5 minutes while Clinton was just the wisest man of his time. There is a distinct bias in how people who stand for America first, and "american values" are viewed versus the wisdom of the global village.[/quote]

Oh, I remember him being called an idiot, but I don't remember it being by the FBI. :D

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1186650]It's funny because I remember it the other way with Reagan and Clinton. Reagan being responsible for economic progress (we were told it just took to the early 90s for it to progress) and the end of the cold war. Clinton was the poster child for infidelity and bashed repeatedly by the media for it. I guess that goes to your point about how we can look at the same media sources and see bias.[/QUOTE]


Yeah Clinton was absolutely roasted in the media. Funny how we forget.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=mooby;1186558]Good morning Chico. Has Trump called out Russia on trying to influence the election yet? Because US intelligence believes Russia has its' fingerprints all over the DNC hacking and mounting a campaign to sway people's opinions through fake news online on places like Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. Ever heard of the TEN_GOP Twitter account that had 600k followers? That was ran by the Russians.

I also believe US intelligence way more than I believe our very stable genius President.
I'm not gonna dispute Trump stepping up our Eastern-Euro defenses is a message, that's a good thing. But Russia has had a manipulation campaign going for a while now.[/quote]

Its amazing how now some want to pin the Trump administration as somehow responsible for the Russian attempts of influence of the elections and the DNC hacking...this is the responsibility of the Obama Administration, the Obama State Department and the Obama intelligence agencies. All failed. So own it.


More evidence of Trump completely bashing any narrative of soften of policy towards Russian influence:

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/state-department-russia-sanctions-time-52694674]Putin: US took 'hostile step' in publishing Russia list - ABC News[/url]

Putin: US took 'hostile step' in publishing Russia list.

Re: Government shutdown 2018
 

[quote=Chico23231;1186916]Its amazing how now some want to pin the Trump administration as somehow responsible for the Russian attempts of influence of the elections and the DNC hacking...this is the responsibility of the Obama Administration, the Obama State Department and the Obama intelligence agencies. All failed. So own it.


More evidence of Trump completely bashing any narrative of soften of policy towards Russian influence:

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/state-department-russia-sanctions-time-52694674]Putin: US took 'hostile step' in publishing Russia list - ABC News[/url]

Putin: US took 'hostile step' in publishing Russia list.[/quote]

Nope ,wrong again Chico.

[url]https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/29/politics/trump-russia-sanctions/index.html[/url]

[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-russia-sanctions-deadline-presidential-election-meddling-vladimir-putin-a8184391.html]Deadline looms for Trump to issue further sanctions against Russia over election meddling | The Independent[/url]