Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1260561]Haskins and Cam actually are quite similar with the exception that Can runs more.

Cam was also horrible for a few years, I remember the fans wanting them to cut him pretty early on. Even in his successful years, he wasn't the greatest passer. If you look at his passing stats, he's really only had about 3 decent seasons and 1 good one.

Haskins has a far superior arm than Cam. He just needs to learn how to use it at this level. Once he does, the throws he'll be making will be fun to watch.


And Dwayne probably won't look like a pineapple.

[img]https://www.pro-football-reference.com/req/20180910/images/headshots/NewtCa00_2020.jpg[/img][/quote]


You think Haskins has a better arm than Cam?? IDK about that

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=MTK;1260563]Sorry but Cam was far better right off the bat, he threw for 4000 yards as a rookie. Dwayne has a long way to go.[/quote]

He did twice in the last two games of the season that year when he (Most likely) finally fully grasped the offense. Hopefully well see the same maturation with Haskins

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1260565]You think Haskins has a better arm than Cam?? IDK about that[/quote]

I do.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1260479]Top 15?? You are being very generous lol. Haskins is bottom 2 right now since Mitch got benched.[/quote]

Please read what I wrote. I did not say he was a top 15 QB. What I clearly said was that "Haskins has rarely shown flashes of anything above being a top 15, top 20 QB". Two different things.

And Matty. I know Trubisky isn't great but you can't tell me he is as bad as Haskins right now. A trade would give him new life on a new team and would give Haskins the same as well as an opportunity to sit back and learn under Foles. It would be a short term move that has upside.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[QUOTE=Monkeydad;1260564]And almost as many INTS as TDs.



You're right, he did have a decent rookie year, then had several years of garbage play. He had one of the biggest sophomore slumps. Later on, he even had a season where he completed 52%. That's unacceptable for an NFL QB. He's been a sub-60% passer most years, his value comes in his ability to run. Once that's gone, he's done for good.[/QUOTE]



No he never had a sophomore slump let alone a big one. He had a higher rating as a passer and more yards rushing. He never ever had several years of garbage play. That is ridiculous. One year with a 52 percent completion percentage, but career 60 percent. Also you cannot just discount the rushing and say besides it he is just like Crapkins. Cam showed right off the bat he was good. Crapkins like maybe a few good quarters? They are absolutely nothing alike. Never were. Never will be.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[QUOTE=Summo;1260566]He did twice in the last two games of the season that year when he (Most likely) finally fully grasped the offense. Hopefully well see the same maturation with Haskins[/QUOTE]



Yeah he had two 400 yard games to end the season but Matty said 4000 for the year. I pray that we see Haskins throw for 400 one time. He has never really sniffed 300. He isn’t going to run much so he better throw for alot.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1260519]Problem with Haskins is he isn’t showing growth. Bad feet, bad accuracy and no touch on his passes.[/quote]

This is the problem, Haskins is regressing. He is reverting back to his bad habits. His footwork and placement is terrible and getting worse.
Haskins never learned and absorbed the fundamentals, he never learned the mental part of the game.
There was a more sane time in the NFL when players like Haskins carried a clip board, learned by watching and are coached up in practice for year or two. . Why is that so FUCKING TERRIBLE now in today's NFL? What is wrong with him taking the time to learn? Joe Theismann rode the bench for two years before starting.
RR is absolutely right it is not fair to the rest of the team, coaching staff and fans to force Haskins in when he is not ready. Most importantly it is not fair to Haskins to get his ego crushed every weekend. NFL defenses are no joke. There is no Tulane's or Wake Forest's in the NFL. Haskins is not ready to start even against Cleveland. Imagine if we were playing against a top team this past weekend.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

Look at Cam’s numbers from the link I posted. His 1st two games were over 420 yards, his third was only 158 but they won, and his 4th was 374 yards. It is simply not the case that RR had to be as patient as DH will require with that kind of production in Cam’s 1st 4 rookie games. I don’t think there is any evidence that DH has a stronger arm and he can’t run like Cam. Point being - RR knew right away he had someone he could work with. He doesn’t have that now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1260583]This is the problem, Haskins is regressing. He is reverting back to his bad habits. His footwork and placement is terrible and getting worse.
Haskins never learned and absorbed the fundamentals, he never learned the mental part of the game.
There was a more sane time in the NFL when players like Haskins carried a clip board, learned by watching and are coached up in practice for year or two. . Why is that so FUCKING TERRIBLE now in today's NFL? What is wrong with him taking the time to learn? Joe Theismann rode the bench for two years before starting.
RR is absolutely right it is not fair to the rest of the team, coaching staff and fans to force Haskins in when he is not ready. Most importantly it is not fair to Haskins to get his ego crushed every weekend. NFL defenses are no joke. There is no Tulane's or Wake Forest's in the NFL. Haskins is not ready to start even against Cleveland. Imagine if we were playing against a top team this past weekend.[/quote]

You know why? his name is Dan Snyder. The only way Ron got the job is if Haskins got the option to start.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

Thinking about RR's mentality, maybe it is an element of cancer treatment on the late game situations, but wouldn't JDR be taking him to task if he felt his judgement was affected? Maybe not really obviously but surely he'd have a word. Makes me think the coaching staff have a plan; not tanking but taking the first part of the season as the missed preseason. See what they have in the young guys etc. then build the core of the team in the latter part of the season. He must have seen enough with TC and the 1st 3 games to know we won't be competing for a playoff spot this year so why bust a gut and risk injuries (or embarrassment) going all out this early? Not saying I agree but I get it.

So his view on Haskins, in that light makes sense. Give the kid time. He knows Smith likely will never see the field again (except maybe a ceremonial last game snap/series), and if Allen were franchise calibre or even close he'd still be in Carolina. So why not let Haskins have the whole season? If he can't improve over 16 games, he won't improve in the offseason and he will know for sure he needs another QB. Allen is there as insurance if Haskins gets hurt or devolves so badly he has no choice but to pull him.

Makes sense with the others. Collins and Apke are 2 sides of the same coin; should be better than they are playing, but with capable backups. Collins is being paid too much to bench, but could be a casualty in the spring (will there be much cap damage if he's gone?). Apke has potential but isn't showing it. I'd say he's giving Collins the season like Haskins and Apke probably has 6-8 games before he gets replaced by Curl. Christian is just keeping a seat warm until Charles can be tested. Scherff is the biggest disappointment for me. At least with him down we can look at how the depth stacks up, but they must already be thinking about stocking up on 2nd/3rd round picks and drafting OL. Maybe they should have paid Scherff so he could at least be trade bait...

For the starters this season is the chance to show they deserve a spot next season. So far I'd say 15-17 will be on the roster next year. Right now I see Haskins, half the OL, an LB or two and both S's to be gone; they must be aware of this themselves so if they don't step up in the next 3-5 games (or at least show they are trying 100%) then look for mid season changes possibly excepting Haskins.

Could be a different team on the field after bye week...

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1260570]Yeah he had two 400 yard games to end the season but Matty said 4000 for the year. I pray that we see Haskins throw for 400 one time. He has never really sniffed 300. He isn’t going to run much so he better throw for alot.[/quote]

DH doesn't even have a 300 yard game. The guy doesn't have it. He will never make the players around him better.

Watching Mahomes last night made me depressed about our QB situation..lol. He just drops dimes and makes it look so easy while DH can't hit 10 yard passes.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1260601]DH doesn't even have a 300 yard game. The guy doesn't have it. He will never make the players around him better.

Watching Mahomes last night made me depressed about our QB situation..lol. He just drops dimes and makes it look so easy while DH can't hit 10 yard passes.[/quote]

Mahomes is already a top 10 QB of all time and will end up being top 3 for sure... He's a generational talent that you don't see very often. Not making an excuse for Haskins, I'd compare him to guys like Herbert and Burrow who are both clearly better.

Both Cincy and LA have poor lines as well and both of those ROOKIES have thrown multiple 300 yard games, yeah stats don't tell you everything but both QB's grades are way better than DH too.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1260564]And almost as many INTS as TDs.

You're right, he did have a decent rookie year, then had several years of garbage play. He had one of the biggest sophomore slumps. Later on, he even had a season where he completed 52%. That's unacceptable for an NFL QB. He's been a sub-60% passer most years, his value comes in his ability to run. Once that's gone, he's done for good.[/quote]

Cam impacts the game and puts pressure on the defense because he is like another running back. He will never be a high % passer.

But at this point in their careers you simply can not compare the two players. You just can't.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

After hearing Ron speak yesterday, I get the feeling that if Haskins blows it against Baltimore, we could see Allen week 5.. He basically said it's go time now for Dwayne. Ron understands that his offense is being held back due to the poor QB play. Terry is one of the best WRs in football, Sims is a good slot and Wright looked great Sunday.. There is talent at that position and the RBs looked good.. Haskins lost us that game period

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

He's started 10 games folks.

10.

All this talk about pulling the plug is ridiculous.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

so much for all the social media workouts..

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1260601]DH doesn't even have a 300 yard game. The guy doesn't have it. He will never make the players around him better.

[B]Watching Mahomes last night made me depressed about our QB situation..lol. He just drops dimes and makes it look so easy while DH can't hit 10 yard passes.[/B][/quote]

We could be CHI and had traded up to get Mitch while Mahomes was just sitting there.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

Well there's no question he's in much better shape this year. He definitely would have benefited from a true offseason of OTA's.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1260512]No way he gets the entire season. As Ron said it ain't fair to the other players when the QB is playing so poorly. [B]You think it's fair to the other wr's who are playing with a guy who can't get the job done?[/B] He really should of had 4 picks but he got bailed out by Wright.

Allen can run the offense better. I have no question about that. He at least had some really good games last year.[/quote]

That is a good point. I just don't think any QB on this roster is fair to our WRs.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=MTK;1260611]He's started 10 games folks.

10.

All this talk about pulling the plug is ridiculous.[/quote]

He has and I want to see the guy get better but Matty we can't sit back and let the offense look like shit due to QB play.. Unless they want to tank and if that's the case I'm cool with it.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=MTK;1260611]He's started 10 games folks.

10.

All this talk about pulling the plug is ridiculous.[/quote]

I hear but there at this point isn't much to get excited about; so I understand folk's frustrations.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1260618]He has and I want to see the guy get better but Matty we can't sit back and let the offense look like shit due to QB play.. Unless they want to tank and if that's the case I'm cool with it.[/quote]

Is Kyle Allen going to make this a 10 win team?

Rivera has made it clear he's in full on rebuild mode. So what's the rush?

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=MTK;1260620]Is Kyle Allen going to make this a 10 win team?

Rivera has made it clear he's in full on rebuild mode. So what's the rush?[/quote]

It's the worst part of the rebuild. Folks get a little taste of success and next thing you know it's "we have playoff potential this year, we can't afford to waste games developing a qb"

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

I know 1 thing proven true...Logan Thomas is a nice number 2 TE. Gotta address TE sometime folks. Going on 3 years of very little talent on the field at TE
Absolutely ridiculous

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1260609]After hearing Ron speak yesterday, I get the feeling that [B]if Haskins blows it against Baltimore[/B], we could see Allen week 5.. He basically said it's go time now for Dwayne. Ron understands that his offense is being held back due to the poor QB play. Terry is one of the best WRs in football, Sims is a good slot and Wright looked great Sunday.. There is talent at that position and the RBs looked good.. Haskins lost us that game period[/quote]

Blows it?! You make it sound like WFT vs Balt is a toss-up game. If WFT can stay within 20 point of Balt it will be a miracle.

Comparing Mahommes to DH is ridiculous. Mahommes is on a functioning NFL franchise while DH is on the most dysfunctional franchise in the NFL. If you put Mahommes in DH situation as a rookie he wouldn't be successful either.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

You can also ask what is the rush to start Haskins when he is clearly not ready. Haskins issues are not a simple adjustment. In the heat of the game he forgets how to drop back and set up to throw. The most basic thing for a QB. He cannot walk and chew gum at the same time.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1260630]You can also ask what is the rush to start Haskins when he is clearly not ready. Haskins issues are not a simple adjustment. In the heat of the game he forgets how to drop back and set up to throw. The most basic thing for a QB. He cannot walk and chew gum at the same time.[/quote]

I know im preaching to the choir, but it was really frustrating watching him throw while running and hopping this week. Not setting up and planting at all. Hes relying on his arm strength, probably because that was his game in college. Too many times it looked like he had time, but did a little roll out and threw off balance.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

He's not going to get better on the sidelines. He's never lacked confidence or shown the game is too big for him, let him play through his struggles just like plenty of other QBs have done.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

We can disagree. I think the practice field is exactly where they need to deconstruct his fundamentals and rebuild them correctly. Not getting pummeled on the field.
He has to commit the footwork/dropbacks to muscle memory so he doesn't have think about it. Then work on game strategy. Learn to walk before running.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1260635]We can disagree. I think the practice field is exactly where they need to deconstruct his fundamentals and rebuild them correctly. Not getting pummeled on the field.
He has to commit the footwork/dropbacks to muscle memory so he doesn't have think about it. Then work on game strategy. Learn to walk before running.[/quote]

That's offseason work. He would get little to no snaps in practice right now if he wasn't the starter.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=MTK;1260636]That's offseason work. He would get little to no snaps in practice right now if he wasn't the starter.[/quote]

Being the scout team QB. Staying after or before practice with QB coach. Doing it until it is burned in his brain. Bad habits like this take time get fid of. Repetition. Then doing it in games.
When he proves he do it in a panic game situation and not get happy feet, he is ready to start again. IMO

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

Here's 's what Ron Rivera had to say about a possible QB change in an interview with JP Finlay:

JP asked if the Week 8 bye might be the natural time to make a change at QB, if it becomes necessary.

RR replied: "To be honest with you, as you look at what’s happening in our division, I don’t want that to be too late. We're in first place at 1-2, tied with Dallas. We have one team that’s 0-2-1 and another team that’s 0-3. We have to look where we are right now and say, ‘Gosh, we might be in position. That's something you have to think about as well. It will play into [the quarterback decision], trust me. I went through this in 2014."

JP also asked RR about weighing Haskins' development against the possibility of winning a weak division.

RR replied: "I have to look at that and be honest. I like a lot of the things I have seen, but there are some things that truly concern me, growth being the biggest one."

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1260640]Here's 's what Ron Rivera had to say about a possible QB change in an interview with J.P. Findlay:

JP asked if the Week 8 bye might be the time to make a change at QB, if it becomes necessary.

RR replied: "To be honest with you, as you look at what’s happening in our division, I don’t want that to be too late. We're in first place at 1-2, tied with Dallas. We have one team that’s 0-2-1 and another team that’s 0-3. We have to look where we are right now and say, ‘Gosh, we might be in position. That's something you have to think about as well. It will play into [the quarterback decision], trust me. I went through this in 2014."

JP also asked RR about weighing Haskins' development against the possibility of winning the division.

RR replied: "I have to look at that and be honest. I like a lot of the things I have seen, but there are some things that truly concern me, growth being the biggest one."[/quote]


Basically the writing is on the wall

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1260638]Being the scout team QB. Staying after or before practice with QB coach. Doing it until it is burned in his brain. Bad habits like this take time get fid of. Repetition. Then doing it in games.[/quote]

This never happens with most NFL teams and rookie/young QBs are thrown to the fire.

Rebuilding is ugly and people need to get used to it. People think that Ron is keeping Haskins in because Snyder is making him do it. But the reason he's keeping DH in is because Snyder has given him space and time to rebuild, and he's not under pressure to win right away.

It is very likely that the team will have a new QB next season. But whoever that new QB will be, will likely have a better team around them, thanks to this rebuilding year.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1260644]This never happens with most NFL teams and rookie/young QBs are thrown to the fire.

Rebuilding is ugly and people need to get used to it. People think that Ron is keeping Haskins in because Snyder is making him do it. But the reason he's keeping DH in is because Snyder has given him space and time to rebuild, and he's not under pressure to win right away.

It is very likely that the team will have a new QB next season. But whoever that new QB will be, [B]will likely have a better team around them, thanks to this rebuilding year.[/B][/quote]

I don't know about the QB part but I agree with the bold part.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

Ron needs to know what we have in Dwayne by the end of the season. This idea of sticking him on the shelf and coddling him is ridiculous, we need to know if we can move forward with him next year as the starter or will we be in the QB market again.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1260640]Here's 's what Ron Rivera had to say about a possible QB change in an interview with JP Finlay:

JP asked if the Week 8 bye might be the natural time to make a change at QB, if it becomes necessary.

RR replied: "To be honest with you, as you look at what’s happening in our division, I don’t want that to be too late. We're in first place at 1-2, tied with Dallas. We have one team that’s 0-2-1 and another team that’s 0-3. We have to look where we are right now and say, ‘Gosh, we might be in position. That's something you have to think about as well. It will play into [the quarterback decision], trust me. I went through this in 2014."

JP also asked RR about weighing Haskins' development against the possibility of winning a weak division.

RR replied: "I have to look at that and be honest. I like a lot of the things I have seen, but there are some things that truly concern me, growth being the biggest one."[/quote]

Did JP ask him about not using his timeouts? Because he sure isn't coaching like he's interested in trying to win a weak division.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=MTK;1260651]Ron needs to know what we have in Dwayne by the end of the season. This idea of sticking him on the shelf and coddling him is ridiculous, we need to know if we can move forward with him next year as the starter or will we be in the QB market again.[/quote]

Again, RR did not draft Haskins so there is no loyalty. His leach will be a short one. There is a slim to almost no chance Haskins is the QB of the future.

Whenever a new coach comes in, unless the starter is well established, they want their own guy. Hell Rodgers has several years of good football left and they used their 1st rounder on a QB.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

I trust Ron on this. A couple of ancillary things go into this calculus:

- Dwayne's poor play is impacting Ron's ability to evaluate the WRs. If they're not on the field enough it gets harder to evaluate the rest of the offense.

- Last year we saw Dwayne suck nuts until later in the season when he finally learned the offense. This year, new offense, and he's sucking nuts early. It's possible he's just a slow learner, in addition to having issues with mechanics and footwork. But if Ron looks at this and says I can't have a slow learner, there's no time for that in the NFL, because what if next year I decide to change coordinators? What if next year Scott and I need to adjust the scheme to fit the skills of new receivers? If being a slow learner holds us back, I'm good if Ron decides that's not good enough.

Some of these young QBs come in and get it quickly, it's not unreasonable to look for the next one who might be capable of that.

That all has to be balanced against the long term interests of seeing what you have in Dwayne, and at the same time weighing the chance of losing the locker room if you continue to start a shitty player.

I trust Ron will get it right. He's not there yet but he's sending signals, as he should.

Re: How Many Games Should We Test Haskins?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1260640]Here's 's what Ron Rivera had to say about a possible QB change in an interview with JP Finlay:

JP asked if the Week 8 bye might be the natural time to make a change at QB, if it becomes necessary.

RR replied: "To be honest with you, as you look at what’s happening in our division, I don’t want that to be too late. We're in first place at 1-2, tied with Dallas. We have one team that’s 0-2-1 and another team that’s 0-3. We have to look where we are right now and say, ‘Gosh, we might be in position. That's something you have to think about as well. It will play into [the quarterback decision], trust me. I went through this in 2014."

JP also asked RR about weighing Haskins' development against the possibility of winning a weak division.

RR replied: "I have to look at that and be honest. I like a lot of the things I have seen, but[B] there are some things that truly concern me, growth being the biggest one.[/B]"[/quote]

Ron up here reading my post. Thanks for the shout out...let me know if you need anything