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Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Chico23231;1281884]Trey Lance
Man...I don’t think he is that good. Lance weapon is his legs and his competition wasn’t even d1. He will not be able to take on nfl defenses like that...that guy loves to lower his shoulder. This could be an RG3 type mistake and one we shouldn’t take. Give me mond, mills, or trask later..do not throw away picks and set the franchise back again for Lance. If they do, this new brain trust losses credit immediately. It should effectively cost jobs when it fails.[/quote] According to Sheehan the guy the FT would really want is Fields. If I had to bet, I don't think we'll take a QB in the first round. It's going to be too costly to move up. I think Ron is perfectly content with continuing to build up the team and rolling with Fitzpatrick for a year or two. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=MTK;1281887]According to Sheehan the guy the FT would really want is Fields.
If I had to bet, I don't think we'll take a QB in the first round. It's going to be too costly to move up. I think Ron is perfectly content with continuing to build up the team and rolling with Fitzpatrick for a year or two.[/quote] I would easily take Fields over Lance. And agree with not moving up |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Chico23231;1281884]Trey Lance
Man...I don’t think he is that good. Lance weapon is his legs and his competition wasn’t even d1. He will not be able to take on nfl defenses like that...that guy loves to lower his shoulder. This could be an RG3 type mistake and one we shouldn’t take. [B]Give me mond, mills, or trask later..do not throw away picks and set the franchise back again for Lance.[/B] If they do, this new brain trust losses credit immediately. It should effectively cost jobs when it fails.[/quote] My gut tells me that, as well. But remember that the football people didn't want RG3 or Haskins but they were forced by DS to take them. If the WFT were to trade up for Lance and I could be assured that it was a decision made by the football braintrust and not DS, then I could go for it. OTOH, I don't know that I could ever be convinced that DS didn't dictate any first round pick of a QB. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
I'd take Lance
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Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Chico23231;1281886]Gonna be completely honest, I really didn’t see much of a character issue with Parsons.[/quote]
Doesn't sound like anything that should make him slide, but you never know. Teams are undoubtedly doing their due diligence on him. If there's any doubt I can't see Ron rolling the dice on him. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Chico23231;1281886]Gonna be completely honest, I really didn’t see much of a character issue with Parsons.[/quote]
Thank you. All this red flag talk, is WAY overblown. There's really nothing alarming. There's certainly no evidence he's a "criminal" as is purported a few posts ago. This is not Derrius Guice folks. It's not even on the same planet. I wouldn't move up to get him, but if 18 teams are dumb enough to pass on him, the card with his name on it is going to be turned in ASAP. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=MTK;1281883]I wouldn't be surprised if he's off their board completely due to the red flags. Ron has been all in on culture since day 1. And this is probably the one team in the league right now that can't afford any more PR hits. The talent is very enticing though.[/quote]
me either, but i also wouldn't be surprised if they moved up a few spots to grab him if he fell at all. Though i think they would have to move up to 9 to grab him. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Chico23231;1281886]Gonna be completely honest, I really didn’t see much of a character issue with Parsons.[/quote]
Very difficult to separate fact from fiction on the accusations against Parsons. Who do you believe? If the worst accusations are true I do not want him on the team. If they are not true we should draft him. How do you determine the truth? |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Defensewins;1281905]Very difficult to separate fact from fiction on the accusations against Parsons.
Who do you believe? If the worst accusations are true I do not want him on the team. If they are not true we should draft him. How do you determine the truth?[/quote] Defense...you always post the great questions and comments, but ur missing a couple. Do you trust this administration versus the previous? Also, these stories sometimes are put out to get his stock to drop. I don’t think they are bad...domestic abuse, gun crime and continuous drug use IMO are always worse. Lastly, he maybe the best defense player in the draft. On a defense full of leaders...let’s go full voltron and complete this thing |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Defensewins;1281905]Very difficult to separate fact from fiction on the accusations against Parsons.
Who do you believe? If the worst accusations are true I do not want him on the team. If they are not true we should draft him. How do you determine the truth?[/quote] What are the worst accusations? |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1281914]What are the worst accusations?[/quote]
I thought the funniest was Urban Meyer acting like a bitch. What a complete douchbag-puss |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
See, I don't even know what Urban Meyer did. I see where Parsons tweeted that he would make a QB change while he was on a recruiting visit. Ultimately OSU was not allowed to pursue him as a recruit due to their own recruiting violations during his visit. But there must be more to this story that I can't find.
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Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1281914]What are the worst accusations?[/quote]
I am not saying I believe the allegations, but you asked, so here they are. I am not sure what has been disproven. I am just now looking into it as a life long Redskins fan and concerned about about who we draft. That is all. "The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported in January that the initial complaint also includes graphic details of perpetrators exposing their genitalia on and near the faces and bodies of others. Among other things, perpetrators were alleged to have wrestled victims to the ground and made humping actions while on top of them, stolen victims clothes and placed their genitalia on victims while in the team showers." [URL="https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/psu/2020/11/20/isaiah-humphries-allegations-penn-state-james-franklin/stories/202011200131"]https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/psu/2020/11/20/isaiah-humphries-allegations-penn-state-james-franklin/stories/202011200131[/URL] "Miller reported the lawsuit also named Micah Parsons, Yetur Gross-Matos and Jesse Luketa as "ringleaders of the alleged abuse" and stated the hazing included players saying "I'm going to Sandusky you" in reference to former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky, who is in prison for molesting young boys while on staff." "Humphries described the hazing in the lawsuit and said Luketa went as far as to threaten to kill him for complaining about it." "He claims his alleged tormenters [B][U]would wrestle victims to the ground, then shove their genitals in the victims' faces or between their buttocks and hump them," Miller wrote. "Those who resisted were bullied[/U][/B], he contends. Hazers also stole their targets' clothes, Humphries says." [URL="https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2871329-james-franklin-psu-players-named-in-isaiah-humphries-lawsuit-alleging-hazing"]https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2871329-james-franklin-psu-players-named-in-isaiah-humphries-lawsuit-alleging-hazing[/URL] |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Defensewins;1281917]I am not saying I believe the allegations, but you asked, so here they are. I am not sure what has been disproven. [B]I am just now looking into it as a life long Redskins fan and concerned about about who we draft. [/B] That is all.
"The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported in January that the initial complaint also includes graphic details of perpetrators exposing their genitalia on and near the faces and bodies of others. Among other things, perpetrators were alleged to have wrestled victims to the ground and made humping actions while on top of them, stolen victims clothes and placed their genitalia on victims while in the team showers." [URL="https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/psu/2020/11/20/isaiah-humphries-allegations-penn-state-james-franklin/stories/202011200131"]https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/psu/2020/11/20/isaiah-humphries-allegations-penn-state-james-franklin/stories/202011200131[/URL] "Miller reported the lawsuit also named Micah Parsons, Yetur Gross-Matos and Jesse Luketa as "ringleaders of the alleged abuse" and stated the hazing included players saying "I'm going to Sandusky you" in reference to former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky, who is in prison for molesting young boys while on staff." "Humphries described the hazing in the lawsuit and said Luketa went as far as to threaten to kill him for complaining about it." "He claims his alleged tormenters [B][U]would wrestle victims to the ground, then shove their genitals in the victims' faces or between their buttocks and hump them," Miller wrote. "Those who resisted were bullied[/U][/B], he contends. Hazers also stole their targets' clothes, Humphries says." [URL="https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2871329-james-franklin-psu-players-named-in-isaiah-humphries-lawsuit-alleging-hazing"]https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2871329-james-franklin-psu-players-named-in-isaiah-humphries-lawsuit-alleging-hazing[/URL][/quote] Yeah me too. I never saw any of this hazing stuff. Now that's a red flag. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
Penn State guys saying "I'm going to Sandusky you"???
WTF. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Chico23231;1281888]I would easily take Fields over Lance. And agree with not moving up[/quote]
I'd gladly take either at 19. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Pervis_Griffith;1281921]Penn State guys saying "I'm going to Sandusky you"???
WTF.[/quote] Yeah, that's F'd up if that's true. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Chico23231;1281884]Trey Lance
Man...I don’t think he is that good. Lance weapon is his legs and his competition wasn’t even d1. He will not be able to take on nfl defenses like that...that guy loves to lower his shoulder. This could be an RG3 type mistake and one we shouldn’t take. Give me mond, mills, or trask later..do not throw away picks and set the franchise back again for Lance. If they do, this new brain trust losses credit immediately. It should effectively cost jobs when it fails.[/quote] He has a cannon arm, but the questions are mental. He is not primarily a legs guy, he can absolutely throw, but QB is 90% mental and that is big question mark with him and other project or projection QBs. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Scalper;1281928]He has a cannon arm, but the questions are mental. He is not primarily a legs guy, he can absolutely throw, but QB is 90% mental and that is big question mark with him and other project or projection QBs.[/quote]
I'm with Chico. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. But I bet a QB no one is talking about in the later rounds winds up having a more productive NFL career. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
Per Peter Hailey from NBCSports, WFT considered trading for Orlando Brown but dropped the plans after realizing the cost is too high. The more I read about WFT's offseason strategies, the more I doubt we would trade up in the draft. The theme has been pretty consistent - the WFT is sticking with the long-term strategies so I would be really surprised if we trade up.
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Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Pervis_Griffith;1281935]I'm with Chico.
Maybe he'll prove me wrong. But I bet a QB no one is talking about in the later rounds winds up having a more productive NFL career.[/quote] Happens every year. Would I trade up for him? No. Maybe if he was available at 15 or so for a 3rd to move up and nothing more, but probably not even then, and I seriously doubt he lasts that long. If he was there at #19, and no top LT was, maybe, but again that is probably a pipe dream. But trading farm no way. Hopefully get a LT and a QB we like later. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=GridIron26;1281936]Per Peter Hailey from NBCSports, WFT considered trading for Orlando Brown but dropped the plans after realizing the cost is too high. The more I read about WFT's offseason strategies, the more I doubt we would trade up in the draft. The theme has been pretty consistent - the WFT is sticking with the long-term strategies so I would be really surprised if we trade up.[/quote]
For once, build it the right way. About freaking time. Smart to enquire, smart not to pay what Chiefs did. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Scalper;1281956]For once, build it the right way. About freaking time. Smart to enquire, smart not to pay what Chiefs did.[/quote]
Agree makes sense for chiefs but even imo they paid a steep price. Zeus Jr grades out much better at right than left. That being said he will still be a top ten LT probably and that will make a world of difference |
With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
Darrisaw - OT
JOK - LB Parsons - if the football gods sign upon us - LB. can you imagine Young, Parsons & Sweat and our defense? We’ll be elite!!! Parsons is either going to go early or he’s a guy that could slide with all the character questions that are (unsurprisingly) hitting the media now. I trust RR and Del Rio to know who the best LB to get in the draft. Of all the positions on the team that can be upgraded the quickest and to the best level LB is it. Second choice is OT. Obviously if we could get an elite QB they would go for that but I think this draft will be remembered for the number of teams that traded away their draft futures for QB busts. If by some miracle Trey Lance falls into the teens RR might go for it, I just don’t think he’ll drop. I can see the top 5 QB going into the top 10-12 spots with teams like the Patriots trading up to get their QB. The mad dash for the QB could get us either the second or third best OT or LB at #19. LB in the first round. Then OT in the second round and an OG in the third. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
Screw Parsons.
Do not want. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1281959]Agree makes sense for chiefs but even imo they paid a steep price. Zeus Jr grades out much better at right than left. That being said he will still be a top ten LT probably and that will make a world of difference[/quote]
Chiefs obviously made the calculation that no T available at 31 was better than him, and that he could play LT. Steep is all relative. How ridiculous is it to have an $80M G but no LT? Just ask us if our FO is dumb enough to pay Scherff. What's the price, the cost, of some rusher blowing by the edge and bending Mahome's knee 90 degrees wrong way? Exhibit A again Andrew Luck. Mahomes took an absolute beating. You've then killed the golden goose, and are paying a guy $40M on IR. They are a legit SB contender save OL. Look how hard it is to find a legit franchise QB, and they've got one of top three for sure, some would say the best. Nothing is harder to find than a franchise QB. Not any position in all of sports. You have one, young in his prime, then protecting him should be priority 1,2,3,4,5 and 6. Chiefs got Brown, 2nd, 6th, gave up #31,3rd,4th,5th. So they gave up first #31, moved up a round with 3rd, moved down a round with 5th, plus gave up another 4th. Keeping it simple, they gave up #31 and a 4th, plus got a little add'l value converting 3rd to 2nd. I'm going to assume Andy Reid and his scouting team, who have built a SB roster from ground zero starting with nothing, know what they are doing in believing Brown can play LT. So is the second to the last pick in the 1st round and a 4th worth filling the third highest leverage position on the roster, LT, with a young long term starter, to keep Mahomes from becoming battered-boy Luck 2.0. You bet your ass it is, without hesitation. Plus, the Chiefs work the comp formula, had 2 comp picks, 4th and 5th, so still have 6 picks, including 2 2nd rounders, and made up loss of 4th. Not like they are adding no talent this year, and you could argue that they actually traded their 1st for 2nd, moved down with a 5th, and gave up a 3rd and a 4th. So would you trade down from 31 to 58, 27 spots, 1 round down essentially, plus a 3rd and 4th, to lock up 3rd highest leverage position on roster with young long term starter, and keep Patrick freaking Mahomes healthy? You bet your ass, and those comp picks make a big difference. Chiefs hardly traded the farm. I could see Chiefs trading back with one of 2nds as well. This same move doesn't make sense for us. It is a cold business, but Fitz-Average bending his knee back 90 degrees the wrong way is not cataclysmic as with Mahomes. We have no franchise QB and are not a SB contender, so we should be keeping our picks and trying to draft a LT, and have him 5 years on a rookie deal. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
The favorite is OL but I don't think that's a huge issue right now.. I'm still hoping for LB / S
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Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
Only way I see that deal being bad for the Chiefs is is Brown can't be extended/re-signed. I doubt that happens as a) they already have to have had that in mind in doing the deal and b) what LT walks away from the potential to be the guy who helped build Mahomes career? He could be the #1 QB for the next 10+ years and that likely means more rings etc.
And if he was there, I'd take Parsons at #19. With all the red flags, has he done anything so egregious that he would warrant suspension etc.? Was it immaturity or an attitude problem that is likely to resurface? Seems more the former. Put it this way, we took Sean Taylor, warts and all, and he grew up and got his sh1t together after some red flags and bad conduct. I'd take him all over again knowing what he could deliver on the field and how he matured in doing that. Form what I read, Parsons looks like he's of a similar nature. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=skinsfaninok;1281977]The favorite is OL but I don't think that's a huge issue right now.. I'm still hoping for LB / S[/quote]
It will be an issue very soon. After 2021, Scherff not under contract. Cornelius Lucas not under contract. After 2022, Morgan Moses not under contract. Unless you want to be stuck overpaying in free agency for mediocre line play, drafting that position needs to be on our minds. We have to look at 'needs' through the lens of a 4 year horizon, not just one year. If they can come up with a bonafide LT prospect it's real hard to pass that up. Lucas should be our new Ty Nsekhe, real good swing tackle who can start some games admirably if need be. If he's our starter and our depth is David Sharpe, Geron Christian and Saahdiq Charles, woof. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Schneed10;1281979]It will be an issue very soon. After 2021, Scherff not under contract. Cornelius Lucas not under contract.
After 2022, Morgan Moses not under contract. Unless you want to be stuck overpaying in free agency for mediocre line play, drafting that position needs to be on our minds. We have to look at 'needs' through the lens of a 4 year horizon, not just one year. If they can come up with a bonafide LT prospect it's real hard to pass that up. Lucas should be our new Ty Nsekhe, real good swing tackle who can start some games admirably if need be. If he's our starter and our depth is David Sharpe, Geron Christian and Saahdiq Charles, woof.[/quote] Yeah I forgot about Charles lol, I like Derrisaw and wouldn't be mad at all there. We just need a LB bad |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1281977]The favorite is OL but I don't think that's a huge issue right now.. I'm still hoping for LB / S[/QUOTE]
I think it is an immensely huge issue, and one injury away from being a catastrophic issue. Keeping the quarterback upright and giving the wr’s time is sooooo important. I love a couple of the LB’s that could be there at 19 and it is a hole, but our defense has shown it can still win games with the current roster. Our offense... not so much. Whether it is Fitz or the quarterback of the future - we need to protect him at all costs. I think this is a situation where you absolutely go need over bpa. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
I really think the name to watch at 19 is Alijah Vera-Tucker. I really think Darisaw won’t be there.
The thing Keim has constantly stated, Ron wants to strengthen the oline and Tackle is priority. Vera-Tucker also has versatility playing well at both Tackle and Guard. I like where we are with depth and competition but I think we shouldn’t pass up BPA if we are up and oline is there. I also think Charles is a big unknown and could be impact for us |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
Given the reported depth in OL in this draft, notably at T, I'd say you still go BPA if the BPA is something of a need. If Parsons or Lance were still there, for example, you'd be reaching unless it was one of the best 2-3 LT's on the board.
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Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=AnonEmouse;1281983]Given the reported depth in OL in this draft, notably at T, I'd say you still go BPA if the BPA is something of a need. If Parsons or Lance were still there, for example, you'd be reaching unless it was one of the best 2-3 LT's on the board.[/quote]
That's where I'm at as well. The OL is stacked this class and unless its a Trent Williams like T (Sewell) I would go LB first rd but I guess we'll see soon enough |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
I doubt Darrisaw is there too.
There's basically one LT that is projected to be that plug and play "franchise" LT right away - Sewell. Darrisaw may fit the bill, but his reviews are mixed. Same with Slater; some think he's better suited to be a guard in the NFL. Picking a LT at #19 might not even be smart from a value perspective. You could likely get the same quality LT at #19 as you could through the entire 2nd round. From what I understand there isn't a whole lot separating the likes of Mayfield, Jenkins, Radunz, Little, Brown, Christensen, Leatherwood, Cosmi, Eichenberg... This team is not desperate for O-linemen, but if O-line is the pick, Vera-Tucker would be a solid pick if he's there. All that said, if the BPA at #19 is the best free safety or a LB, that would be my preference. Take another step towards making this defense elite, because DAL and NYG are going to have some weapons to contend with this year. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[QUOTE=AnonEmouse;1281983]Given the reported depth in OL in this draft, notably at T, I'd say you still go BPA if the BPA is something of a need. If Parsons or Lance were still there, for example, you'd be reaching unless it was one of the best 2-3 LT's on the board.[/QUOTE]
Quarterback is the only one i would go bpa but there is no way Lance is there at 19. No way. I just cant pass up a real solid (maybe great) OT for a LB. Simply because our D as an overall unit is capable of winning games. Our offense is not. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=punch it in;1281987]Quarterback is the only one i would go bpa but there is no way Lance is there at 19. No way. I just cant pass up a real solid (maybe great) OT for a LB. Simply because our D as an overall unit is capable of winning games. Our offense is not.[/quote]
The latest rumor is NE is willing to move up to Lance or Fields.. I agree, no shot Lance is at 19 and if he somehow does or Fields, you run up as fast as u can and take them |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=punch it in;1281987]Quarterback is the only one i would go bpa but there is no way Lance is there at 19. No way. I just cant pass up a real solid (maybe great) OT for a LB. Simply because our D as an overall unit is capable of winning games. Our offense is not.[/quote]
I think the offense will be capable of winning games this year. If they had scored one more TD, [I]or[/I] two more FGs per game last season, they would have been a top 10 scoring offense, and the O-line was ranked #6. As is, with the additions already made this offseason, and Gibson healthy, they will be much harder to defend. No statue at QB, and a true threat opposite McLaurin. Imagine having a top 10 scoring offense, coupled with an even better defense. This team will do some damage. I just don't think that the LT available at 19 will have as big an impact this year as the best defender (LB or FS) that is there. They do need to address the O-line this year and next year, I'm just not sure it needs to be in the first round of 2021. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1281990][B]I think the offense will be capable of winning games this year.
[/B] If they had scored one more TD, [I]or[/I] two more FGs per game last season, they would have been a top 10 scoring offense, and the O-line was ranked #6. As is, with the additions already made this offseason, and Gibson healthy, they will be much harder to defend. No statue at QB, and a true threat opposite McLaurin. Imagine having a top 10 scoring offense, coupled with an even better defense. This team will do some damage. I just don't think that the LT available at 19 will have as big an impact this year as the best defender (LB or FS) that is there. They do need to address the O-line this year and next year, I'm just not sure it needs to be in the first round of 2021.[/quote] This. We were 100% hamstrung by the QB position. Haskins was one of the worst, and Smith at his VERY best was like a 4 out of 10. Fitz ain't no miracle cure, but he will be a ton better than what we had. Personally, I still want to see what we have with Heinecke. |
Re: With the 19th Pick, the WFT selects....
[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1281990]I think the offense will be capable of winning games this year.
If they had scored one more TD, [I]or[/I] two more FGs per game last season, they would have been a top 10 scoring offense, and the O-line was ranked #6. As is, with the additions already made this offseason, and Gibson healthy, they will be much harder to defend. No statue at QB, and a true threat opposite McLaurin. Imagine having a top 10 scoring offense, coupled with an even better defense. This team will do some damage. I just don't think that the LT available at 19 will have as big an impact this year as the best defender (LB or FS) that is there. They do need to address the O-line this year and next year, I'm just not sure it needs to be in the first round of 2021.[/QUOTE] I think the offense will be improved no doubt. Im not buying the, we were a couple fg’s away from being a top ten offense though because the Defense literally put us in great field position all season. As good as our defense was, or is, that is a huge ask. At some point the Offense has to move the chains consistently not just to score but to give the defense a rest. The offense I watched last year was filthy bad and yes we have upgraded a couple spots, Gibson is healthy, and Fitz and Heineken > Crapkins and an immobile AS, but I think the o line played way above their heads last year, and I don’t believe they can sustain that level of play without a new LT. Plus if Fitz gets hurt early because he doesn’t have proper protection do you really feel great putting Heineken and his injury history behind that same line? There are two different scenarios at play here with pick 19. We help what we saw on the offensive side last year or the defensive side. My memory says help the offense. |
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