Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]No shit it's a discussion forum. But all I see is back and forth about the same subject. Move on. Let's focus on beating the Cowboys. Why don't you go to extreme skins since you know so much about it. Stop whining while you're at it.[/QUOTE]

Once again....WELL SAID!!!!!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=ladyfan06]Once again....WELL SAID!!!!![/QUOTE]


Thanks ladyfan06. I hate to use profanity, but damn this is getting out of hand.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]No shit it's a discussion forum. But all I see is back and forth about the same subject. Move on. Let's focus on beating the Cowboys. Why don't you go to extreme skins since you know so much about it. Stop whining while you're at it.[/QUOTE]

discussions do that, they go back and forth. no ones making you keep looking at this thread. and extremeskins isn't the place for people who know "so much about it", its for people who say "no shit stop whining"

and LadyFan, welcome to the board. look around and you'll find out what's different about this site.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]discussions do that, they go back and forth. no ones making you keep looking at this thread. and extremeskins isn't the place for people who know "so much about it", its for people who say "no shit stop whining"

and LadyFan, welcome to the board. look around and you'll find out what's different about this site.[/QUOTE]

Okay, well correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression this website was for Redskins [b]FANS[/b], I was'nt looking for anything [b]DIFFERENT[/b]. I am simply stating that as a [b]FAN[/b] that my Coach has my full support, regardless. You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine and I just believe that everyone needs to stop whining about the QB change, Coach made a decision and as a [b]FAN[/b], I for one am willing to support it. I could care less who the QB is. For all I care, they can bring good 'ole Troy Aikman out of retirement as long as he wins us games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]discussions do that, they go back and forth. no ones making you keep looking at this thread. and extremeskins isn't the place for people who know "so much about it", its for people who say "no shit stop whining"

and LadyFan, welcome to the board. look around and you'll find out what's different about this site.[/QUOTE]


Funny thing is, is that you're the only one going back and forth. Don't you have work to do? I really could care less about extremeskins. I'm here, and I ain't going anywhere.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I thought Ramsey was a grown man. But instead it's like he's like a little 6-year old on a Pop Warner team and his mommy (playing the part of Mama Ramsey today will be countless Warpathers) has being going to coach saying "Why isn't my little Patrick playing?"[/QUOTE]

And what have you read that led you to this conclusion? What I've read is that the original ESPN report has been denied - that Ramsey has not demanded to be traded. Even if he had done so, I can't blame him one bit.

So, how is he playing this like a 6-year old? I heard his comments on Comcast the other night and, once again, he appears to be dealing with this like the class act he has always been.

Too bad he wasn't treated in a like manner by the Redskin brass.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Funny thing is, is that you're the only one going back and forth. Don't you have work to do? I really could care less about extremeskins. I'm here, and I ain't going anywhere.[/QUOTE]

don't you? i'll stay here also, bringing the discussion. this is the site, this is the thread. if you don't want to hear anymore then ladyfan and _P nothing is stopping you from going to the Dallas thread.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]And what have you read that led you to this conclusion? What I've read is that the original ESPN report has been denied - that Ramsey has not demanded to be traded. Even if he had done so, I can't blame him one bit.

So, how is he playing this like a 6-year old? I heard his comments on Comcast the other night and, once again, he appears to be dealing with this like the class act he has always been.

Too bad he wasn't treated in a like manner by the Redskin brass.[/QUOTE]

I think you misunderstood. I'm saying a lot of people here are acting like he's a 6 year old who needs someone to hold his hand. Maybe I didn't word it right.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]don't you? i'll stay here also, bringing the discussion. this is the site, this is the thread. if you don't want to hear anymore then ladyfan and _P nothing is stopping you from going to the Dallas thread.[/QUOTE]

What are you like the Webmaster or something? What makes you think you have the authority to tell anyone, especially fellow Redskins fans where to go? If you can't take the fact that _P and myself don't agree with your views, then why don't you go somewhere else?

As I stated before, you are entitled to your opinions but so are the rest of us...and I am not going anywhere so get used to me!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]whats the W/L%?[/QUOTE]

Actually, the Skins don't list W-L by QB, since there are about 50 other players that impact that as well.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=ladyfan06]What are you like the Webmaster or something? What makes you think you have the authority to tell anyone, especially fellow Redskins fans where to go? If you can't take the fact that _P and myself don't agree with your views, then why don't you go somewhere else?

As I stated before, you are entitled to your opinions but so are the rest of us...and I am not going anywhere so get used to me![/QUOTE]

no, LadyFan i'm not. remember, i was the one who was told what to (not) do first. "move on" isn't an opinion, it's an imperative. you're right, i am entitled to my opinion, and i welcome yours, let's hear em.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[size=4]Simmer down folks, I [u]am[/u] the webmaster I do have the authority to tell you where to go![/size]
[size=4] [/size]
[size=4]Please keep things civil.[/size]

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

What I want to know is what do you get out of arguiing over the same thing over and over again? It's not going to change anything. It seems like you're just looking to argue, not discuss. YOU DON'T GET ANYTHING OUT OF IT!!!!!!


I'm done with this thread. My apologies Matty.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72][size=4]Simmer down folks, I [u]am[/u] the webmaster I do have the authority to tell you where to go![/size]

[size=4]Please keep things civil.[/size][/QUOTE]

I am [u]very[/u] civilized and also [u]very[/u] opinionated as is my counterpart- Illdefined.
Trust me this is just a forum not something that is going to be in tomorrow's Washington Post with headlines.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]And what have you read that led you to this conclusion? What I've read is that the original ESPN report has been denied - that Ramsey has not demanded to be traded. Even if he had done so, I can't blame him one bit.

So, how is he playing this like a 6-year old? I heard his comments on Comcast the other night and, once again, he appears to be dealing with this like the class act he has always been.

Too bad he wasn't treated in a like manner by the Redskin brass.[/QUOTE]

The truth of the matter is that Gibbs lied. I have respect for the man, 3 Superbowls won, etc., but he still lied. He told Patrick, Brunell, and all of us that Ramsey was the starter. And with the flimsiest of excuses, he benches him, and puts in his hand-picked boy. A boy, whom I might add, still hasn't admitted he was playing hurt last year.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=jgalecpa]Actually, the Skins don't list W-L by QB, since there are about 50 other players that impact that as well.[/QUOTE]

right that makes sense, but there weren't any major personnel changes along with with Brunell/Ramsey switch were there? Janson was still out, and our WRs were the same.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I know this is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way so I will offer an apology to those who take offense, other than that to bad!

Gibbs states that we can't turn the ball over, and he wont tolerate it, Brunell 2004 9 TO's in 9 games. 2 of which directly lost us 2 games.

Gibbs now states that basically Brunells hamstring was the reason why he was as incompetent as he was last season, [maybe the worst QBing we have ever seen] yet he played his best game of the year 1 week after his supposed injury against dallas, and now we here all about his big time hammy.

Gibbs promises Brunell the starters position and gives him 9 games to play himself out of the starters position, given the fact that Brunell is a very experinced veteran who shouldn't need the same kind of a learning curve as let's say a young QB like Ramsey.

Ramsey is promised the starters job, after 1 early INT in his first regular season game with his new recieving corps he begins to move the ball up and down the field, at which point after 19 minutes Gibbs say's he's seen enough and has to go back to the teachers pet before Ramsey possibly does something to prevent him from getting Brunell back to starters status, so he doesn't look like an absolute incompetent fool for making that deal to get Brunell here in the first place. We cannot gloss over the fact that Gibbs cost his employer 42 million dollars, couple that with a system back like Portis for another 50 mil. that sure would motivate me to try and force a square peg through a round hole, imagine having to tell your employer you just cost them almost 100 mil and it's not working. And so long as Ramsey starts, thats what's being said.

Gibbs makes the move, which is probably the first I can remember a QB who is moving the ball, and if not for a lousy call would have just directed a TD drive, yanked, usually a QB is lifted because he can't move the ball, [unless your last name is Brunell] but the switch is made AFTER 1 QUARTER OF THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON, then to watch Brunell in almost 3 quarters of play muster up 3 field goals, and 70 yards of passing, and say this is my starter.

Somewhere Bobby Beathard is shaking his head.[/QUOTE]

Lets not kid ourselves here, Gibbs is not set with either QB, so why not just start the rookie, that's where your leading this thread to.

Brunell looked better in preseason then Ramsey & that's no b/s. Ramsey has a gun of an arm, but touch is not something he's been blessed with.

Campbell is certainly better in this stage then both Ramsey & Brunell, but given the track record of Gibbs he won't start the rook. So that leaves with 2 options. 1. to stay with Ramsey to whom it's obvious Gibbs has lost confidence in, or 2. start Brunell & hope he can play with anything close to what he use to have.

Regardless, I like Brunell's arm on fade routes.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[color=black]offiss [/color]

[color=black]Gunslinger............[/color]



[color=black]You are so far up Ramsey's butt it is sick. The guy is a turnover machine, that might I add had 11 interceptions last year to Brunell’s 6. Let’s stop treating this guy like a rookie...remember he has started 31 NFL games now. To me that’s about 2 full seasons no matter how you break it up. Trust me I really wanted to like this guy too, but it is time to let go. [/color]



[color=black]He are some other shocking stats about our (former) star QB.....[/color]

[color=black]30 interceptions in 31 games......you might as well count on 1 a game[/color]

26 fumbles in 31 games....thats close to 1 a game

[color=black]A passer rating of 70.....that’s not going to get you to the playoffs[/color]

[color=black]and the list goes on and on.[/color]



[color=black]Let’s face it, we are all blessed to have Gibbs back and I think that he has proved that he has more football savvy then all of us combined. He can see these guys day in and day out. I know that he is making the right choice here. [/color]



[color=black]Mark looked great this preseason moving in the pocket as he used to do. I will bet any amount of money that a lot of you are going to be shocked with his performances on this upcoming Dallas game. If we manage the clock with our running game and #2 Defense after week one we will have no problems taking this one. [/color]



[color=black]Mark may not be the one to mount a major come back for you but he will keep you in the game and not turn it over like Mr. Ramsey. You watch and see....[/color]

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=SkinDallas][color=black]offiss [/color]

[color=black]Gunslinger............[/color]



[color=black]You are so far up Ramsey's butt it is sick. The guy is a turnover machine, that might I add had 11 interceptions last year to Brunell’s 6. Let’s stop treating this guy like a rookie...remember he has started 31 NFL games. To me that’s about 2 full season no matter how you break it up. Trust me I really wanted to like this guy too, but it is time to let go. [/color]



[color=black]He are some other shocking stats about our (former) star QB.....[/color]

[color=black]30 interceptions in 31 games......you might as well count on 1 a game[/color]

[color=black]A passer rating of 70.....that’s not going to get you to the playoffs[/color]

[color=black]and the list goes on and on.[/color]



[color=black]Let’s face it, we are all blessed to have Gibbs back and I think that he has proved that he has more football savvy then all of us combined. He can see these guys day in and day out. I know that he is making the right choice here. [/color]



[color=black]Mark looked great this preseason moving in the pocket as he used to do. I will bet any amount of money that a lot of you are going to be shocked with his performances on this upcoming Dallas game. If we manage the clock with our running game and #2 Defense after week one we will have no problems taking this one. [/color]



[color=black]Mark may not be the one to mount a major come back for you but he will keep you in the game and not turn it over like Mr. Ramsey. You watch and see....[/color][/QUOTE]


Great post Skindallas. My man!!! Welcome to the board by the way.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=ChounsMan]Campbell is certainly better in this stage then both Ramsey & Brunell[/QUOTE]

Based on what?

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Thanks, glad to be here!!!!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=T.J.Houshmanzadeh]The truth of the matter is that Gibbs lied. I have respect for the man, 3 Superbowls won, etc., but he still lied. He told Patrick, Brunell, and all of us that Ramsey was the starter. And with the flimsiest of excuses, he benches him, and puts in his hand-picked boy. A boy, whom I might add, still hasn't admitted he was playing hurt last year.[/QUOTE]

Damn, even T.J. Houshmanzadeh is talking about us! I like T.J., I think he's someone we maybe should have considered in free agency last year. Welcome to the board! Say hi to Marvin for us

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Damn, even T.J. Houshmanzadeh is talking about us! I like T.J., I think he's someone we maybe should have considered in free agency last year. Welcome to the board! Say hi to Marvin for us[/QUOTE]

Damn, is TJ a closet Skins fan? LOL

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Just got an email from Redskins.com, there is a Live Chat w/ Coach Joe Gibbs on Fri., Sept. 16th, think maybe we can ask some of the questions then that we are asking each other, now?

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=SkinDallas][color=black]offiss [/color]


[color=black]He are some other shocking stats about our (former) star QB.....[/color]

[color=black]30 interceptions in 31 games......you might as well count on 1 a game[/color]

26 fumbles in 31 games....thats close to 1 a game

[color=black]A passer rating of 70.....that’s not going to get you to the playoffs[/color]

[color=black]and the list goes on and on.[/color]


[color=black]Let’s face it, we are all blessed to have Gibbs back and I think that he has proved that he has more football savvy then all of us combined. He can see these guys day in and day out. I know that he is making the right choice here. [/color][/QUOTE]

whatever stats anyone can dig up, they were worse than Brunell last year, (most importantly the stat for the L column), when Gibbs used his savvy to choose him over Ramsey based on preseason performance before.

if we could get Brunell to perform at his practice/preseason level for more than a half in a regular season game we'd be NFC champs, thing is we don't. you can't blame us for thinking one more year of age could do it. so far as a Skin, he only shines in small amounts of time and under special conditions.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=ladyfan06]Just got an email from Redskins.com, there is a Live Chat w/ Coach Joe Gibbs on Fri., Sept. 16th, think maybe we can ask some of the questions then that we are asking each other, now?[/QUOTE]

oh, he'll get asked alright regardless. can't believe he's doing that coming into the Dallas game. i respect him for doing it, but if i were Gibbs i would be locked away from all the hoopla until after. who needs the distraction?

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Based on what?[/QUOTE]

Pure ability Matty. Several scouts have said Cambell can make all the toughest throws that most QB's struggle with.

The kids got great touch on his passes. Reminds me of Aikmen in his rookie season, but with better size.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=SkinDallas][color=black]offiss [/color]

[color=black]Gunslinger............[/color]



[color=black]You are so far up Ramsey's butt it is sick. The guy is a turnover machine, that might I add had 11 interceptions last year to Brunell’s 6. Let’s stop treating this guy like a rookie...remember he has started 31 NFL games now. To me that’s about 2 full seasons no matter how you break it up. Trust me I really wanted to like this guy too, but it is time to let go. [/color]



[color=black]He are some other shocking stats about our (former) star QB.....[/color]

[color=black]30 interceptions in 31 games......you might as well count on 1 a game[/color]

26 fumbles in 31 games....thats close to 1 a game

[color=black]A passer rating of 70.....that’s not going to get you to the playoffs[/color]

[color=black]and the list goes on and on.[/color]



[color=black]Let’s face it, we are all blessed to have Gibbs back and I think that he has proved that he has more football savvy then all of us combined. He can see these guys day in and day out. I know that he is making the right choice here. [/color]



[color=black]Mark looked great this preseason moving in the pocket as he used to do. I will bet any amount of money that a lot of you are going to be shocked with his performances on this upcoming Dallas game. If we manage the clock with our running game and #2 Defense after week one we will have no problems taking this one. [/color]



[color=black]Mark may not be the one to mount a major come back for you but he will keep you in the game and not turn it over like Mr. Ramsey. You watch and see....[/color][/QUOTE]


And let me guess who's arse are you up? I wonder!

Here's some interesting facts that you have seemed to gloss over.

1 When we talk about INT's they are no more important than fumbles, check Brunells stats last season he had 9 TO's in 9 games, 2 of which were defensive TD's which directly lost us the game, all he had to do is not allow a defensive TD and it's in the win colum for us, and we are in the playoffs.

2 Ramsey threw 3 INT's against the Giants trying to pull us out of a hole Brunell dug us into, he did something that game that Brunell could not, he moved the ball up and down the field every possession, 1 ball came off his hand funny and hung up in the air, the other came after he hit Rod Gardner on a 7 yd TD pass with one of the easiest catches you will ever see and he dropped it.

3 he did all this while taking about 10% of the reps in practice trying to learn a new system while backing up Brunell.

4 Oh what a short memory you do have, do you not recall how unbelievably inept Brunell was last season? Do you not remember the guy struggling to throw for 100 yards? Do you not Remember how many 3 and out's with Brunnell?

5 Bottom line I would rather have Ramsey who will move the ball up and down the field and throw the occasional INT which I believe with time he will eliminate, at least he moves the ball and gives a chance to score while keeping our defense off the field long enough to stay fresh, while wearing out the opposing defense, where as Brunells 3 and out's will wear our defense out by the 4th quarter.


As far as Im concerned everytime Brunell throws the ball away on third down he might as well be throwing an INT, but for some reason Gibbs is in love with the QB who would rather throw the ball away and give the ball back to the opposing offense, [thats what he calls fighting your guts out] than the QB who's out there really fighting his guts out hanging in the pocket trying to give his recievers a chance to get open knowing he might be pummled any second.

But this will all be settled come monday night, it's just a matter of time!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]whatever stats anyone can dig up, they were worse than Brunell last year, (most importantly the stat for the L column), when Gibbs used his savvy to choose him over Ramsey based on preseason performance before.

if we could get Brunell to perform at his practice/preseason level for more than a half in a regular season game we'd be NFC champs, thing is we don't. you can't blame us for thinking one more year of age could do it. so far as a Skin, he only shines in small amounts of time and under special conditions.[/QUOTE]


Thats easy, we will just call the opposing coach and tell him to play his secong and third string players, that should get Brunell going in pre-season form!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

I don't know what it is about Ramsey. McCants and Ramsey were both in a very similar situation. Darnerian McCants met a similar but more extreme fate. Where's everyone's bleeding heart for him?

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=T.J.Houshmanzadeh]The truth of the matter is that Gibbs lied. I have respect for the man, 3 Superbowls won, etc., but he still lied. He told Patrick, Brunell, and all of us that Ramsey was the starter. And with the flimsiest of excuses, he benches him, and puts in his hand-picked boy. A boy, whom I might add, still hasn't admitted he was playing hurt last year.[/QUOTE]

Interesting, now Joe Gibbs is a liar.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

People are fallable. Gibbs is a person, therefore he is fallable. He has explained to us how hard it is for him to make this change, but apparently he felt a change is needed.

I'm sure that this has nothing to do with him trying to "prove he's still got it." He wants to win football games. He's not in this for the money, he's in this for pride. Not for personal pride, but for pride of the organization. He already won 3 Super Bowls, what did he have left to prove?

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Yeah, fallable....but that doesn't make him a liar as our friend suggested.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=offiss]
But this will all be settled come monday night, it's just a matter of time![/QUOTE]

i highly doubt it will all be settled after one night.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]i highly doubt it will all be settled after one night.[/QUOTE]


I have a feeling it will be ugly, I know I am going out on a limb with that but thats how I feel.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Thats easy, we will just call the opposing coach and tell him to play his secong and third string players, that should get Brunell going in pre-season form![/QUOTE]

Anyone can crack jokes, but sarcasm requires a certain degree of intelligence.

Touche!

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Again, I agree with the fact that Ramsey got yanked to early if it was for the season, but...

I don't recall Ramsey scoring to many points in the Dallas game last year. If everyone is going to jump on Brunnel if he doesn't score many points, and we are comparing Brunnel to last year, then compare Brunnel to the Ramsey game agains Dallas last year when Monday gets here.

I think that some of us are letting our emotions cloud our logic here. I don't think that it was the turn over(s) that caused Ramsey to be sent to the bench and Brown sent packing, but the timing of the turnovers.

Ramsey was given total support for the entire off season and preseason. He was then, because of his uneven number of turnovers, given the ultimatum to protect the ball against the Bears. He didn't. I'm sure this fact was stressed between every drive. Still, he didn't.

At halftime, can anyone here guess what might have been stressed in the locker room? Does anyone remember what happened on the first play out of the locker room after half time? That is why Brown is gone.

Ramsey is on the bench and Brown is gone because Gibbs told them to protect the ball, and they didn't. He is the boss. Period.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=jgalecpa]While It is absolutely true that Brunell had an overall lower QB rating last year than PR (74.8 vs 63.0), the turnover stat is way off balance.

PR threw only [u][b]14.77%[/b][/u] more passes than MB (272 vs 237), but had [b][u]83.33%[/u][/b] more INT's.

See: [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/WAS/2004/regular"]http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/WAS/2004/regular[/url]

A mediocre QB sure aint going to win you many games, but he can lose them very quickly.

J[/QUOTE]

you're forgetting brunells fumbles including ones returned for touchdowns. meaure TOs, not just ints. you also forgot to mention ramsey had [b]42.8%[/b] more TDs.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=jgalecpa]The TD % is not nearly as skewed as the INT %.

The TD % for PR is 3.7% and 3.0% for MB. Not that big a diff., compared to INT's[/QUOTE]

thats still 23.3%, i'd say thats a huge difference.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]No shit it's a discussion forum. But all I see is back and forth about the same subject. Move on. Let's focus on beating the Cowboys. Why don't you go to extreme skins since you know so much about it. Stop whining while you're at it.[/QUOTE]

look, you're whining about other people whining. If you don't want to read it, DON'T, but please don't be offensive just because you have nothing better to do.