Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

I think Ray Rhodes, Kurt Schottenheimer, and Marvin Lewis all had the Skins D in the top 5 or 10 when they were here. And they all were able to use LaVar effectively. Part of what makes a great coach is the ability to harness the talented players while getting the most out of those less talented. I think Williams has clearly demonstrated only the latter thus far...

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Could LaVar help with turnovers and pressure?

Sure he could.

But, can you LaVar supporters also entertain the notion that he could also contribute to the 'D' giving up big plays? With his reluctance to play within the system, perhaps Williams thinks he's more of a liability to a 'D' that is already being stretched thin because of the injuries in the secondary.

I'm guessing Williams doesn't see LaVar as part of the solution right now and thinks of him as only being part of the problem.[/QUOTE]
The solution is to create some takeaways. This might be accomplished by putting some pressure on the QB. Pressure on the QB is particularly effective on say 3rd and long situations, where assignments are not that much of an issue. You essentially need someone to just go out and get the ball. I think Jared Allen did a hell of a job today doing just that for the Chiefs. He was the difference in this game. It's too bad our difference maker, or "part of the solution", was on the sideline all day...

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=NYCSkin]I think Ray Rhodes, Kurt Schottenheimer, and Marvin Lewis all had the Skins D in the top 5 or 10 when they were here. And they all were able to use LaVar effectively. Part of what makes a great coach is the ability to harness the talented players while getting the most out of those less talented. I think Williams has clearly demonstrated only the latter thus far...[/QUOTE]

What about Springs? Griffin? Taylor?

Has he had nothing to do with these more talented players developments?

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=NYCSkin]I think Ray Rhodes, Kurt Schottenheimer, and Marvin Lewis all had the Skins D in the top 5 or 10 when they were here. And they all were able to use LaVar effectively. Part of what makes a great coach is the ability to harness the talented players while getting the most out of those less talented. I think Williams has clearly demonstrated only the latter thus far...[/QUOTE]

But like an article said...they let Arrington become a freelancer and do whatever he wanted....Williams is different, he wants blind alleigance. Unless Arrington can play in the system...I say sit him down.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]What about Springs? Griffin? Taylor?

Has he had nothing to do with these more talented players developments?[/QUOTE]
By no means do I think that Williams has done NOTHING to get these players to perform better. I never said that. I just am not drinking the Gregg Williams Kool Aid yet--that LaVar is such a liability (that he can't even be out there on 3rd and long!).
Marvin Lewis also thinks that LaVar is a huge freelancer but managed to utilize him to the tune of 11 sacks.
Now I will give Williams some credit: Griffin for one was a bit of an underachiever with the Giants. However, the point is that LaVar is our Kobe, our Iverson, our Garnett. He is the player that strikes fear in the opposing offense and their QB. Trent Green basically admitted to this in Wilbon's postgame article. I haven't heard opposing offenses gameplan against Springs, Griffin, or Taylor.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

I can't believe we are turning on GW

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

I just watched 60 seconds with Gregg Williams on RedskinTV, and he said he favorite movie was A few good men with Jack Nicholson, so you know what that means. On the Lavar situation "We can't handle the EFFING truth."

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]But, can you LaVar supporters also entertain the notion that he could also contribute to the 'D' giving up big plays? With his reluctance to play within the system, perhaps Williams thinks he's more of a liability to a 'D' that is already being stretched thin because of the injuries in the secondary.[/QUOTE]

So why is no one else on the team having a finger pointed directly at them for the increasing number of big plays being given up by the defense? If every big play that was given up while LaVar was the starter was his fault, who's fault are they now that he doesn't play? Why isn't Brian Mitchell saying things like "Holdman missed this tackle, and lost them the game by giving up a 50 yard run" like he was so willing to say about LaVar?

I suppose none of these questions seem the least bit strange to Gibbs and Williams camp, but you don't have to be a detective to figure out there's something more than what the coaching staff is saying. The thing is, I'd be willing to accept the reason for his benching is his attitude or other off the field issues. If they want to cut off their nose to spite their face, than more power to them, but I will not accept the bold faced lie, which is the staff telling me LaVar is the worst linebacker on the team.

UPDATE: Warrick Holdman had an impressive [b]2 [/b]tackles today, no picks, and no sacks, which brings his season total to 12 tackles and 0 picks and sacks from the weak side linebacker position through 5 games. To put that in perspective, Marcus Washington had 11 tackles in the Dallas game alone, but hey, I'm sure Holdman was exactly where he was supposed to be on those two tackles. On a side note, Gregg Williams made the comment in a post game interview that he cannot get LaVar more playing time because Holdman has been playing extremely well. It's hard to argue his genius when Holdman puts up numbers like that...

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

while i disagree, that is a very good point, if lavar had given up some of the plays that have been given up the past two weeks everyone would be yelling about it being lavar's fault for overpersuing. If lavar took the place of just daniels and lavar got beat by tatum bell the way he daniels got beat on that first TD in the denver game we would be going crazy on lavar

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

I think it is time for management to step in, and force GW to put LaVar in, for one reason, and one reason only, [b]zero[/b] turnovers by the defence in four games. Like someone else pointed out Warrick Holdman has all of [b]twelve[/b] tackles in five games. I think some of the issues that we have seen in these two losses is because Shawn Springs is injured, but if there is one way to make average or back-up corners look good it is with a pass rush.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

I have to say I've been willing to give Holdman the benefit of the doubt, but the past two weeks he has been directly responsible for missing some TD-saving tackles.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

no one can tell me Warrick holdman is a better LB than Lavar Arrington but the thing is that Warrick is a hand picked guy.
Look at some of our new defensive players, Marcus Washington, Griffin, springs, sean taylor and even Pierce(he was on the team but under utilized) were hand picked players by GW. These players fit into his system. i think that even holdman fits into this system and as he is a no name guy he is the same as the rest of the players on our defense. Lavar is on this team but doesn't fit into the system.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]I think it is time for management to step in, and force GW to put LaVar in, for one reason, and one reason only, [b]zero[/b] turnovers by the defence in four games. Like someone else pointed out Warrick Holdman has all of [b]twelve[/b] tackles in five games. I think some of the issues that we have seen in these two losses is because Shawn Springs is injured, but if there is one way to make average or back-up corners look good it is with a pass rush.[/QUOTE]

So now we're in favor of Snyder meddling with the team?

Wow, what a great idea that is!

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

Come oooooooon, Springs will be back next week and we'll be at home against San Fran. A perfect recipe to get things rolling again.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]I think it is time for management to step in, and force GW to put LaVar in, for one reason, and one reason only, [b]zero[/b] turnovers by the defence in four games. Like someone else pointed out Warrick Holdman has all of [b]twelve[/b] tackles in five games. I think some of the issues that we have seen in these two losses is because Shawn Springs is injured, but if there is one way to make average or back-up corners look good it is with a pass rush.[/QUOTE]


Management knows nothing about coaching football..you're talking about Daniel Synder for Pete's sake.

Re: There was another great performance by the defensive genius and great linebackers
 

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]I was watching Marcus Washington and he was lined up trying to blitz and it was a pitiful effort. On the screen play, Holdman was there and he was blocked off. The others had no pursuit whatsoever with no toughness or speed.

I will admit, they were where they were supposed to be. They were there but they get blocked. These guys are no names with minimal talent. I am sorry for being negative, but I am upset by Greg Williams and his dumb ass pride. Who cares if the players are in their zones if they can't make plays?

The Offense had their best game of the year, so no fault there. I will not question Brunell or Gibbs. Brunell played great and well enough to win.
That vanilla defense relies on offenses making mistakes, but it has zero chance of forcing turnovers. And what happened to all of our pressure on opposing quarterbacks? I haven't seen any in a while.

It seems to me that offenses have figured out Wiliams' defense. Jimmy Johnson (of all people) said why can't Arrington get in the game and force some turnovers? Fasten your seatbelts, there is going to be a lot of calls and questioning of Williams (with regard to Arrington) this week. This is all so petty. Find a way to compromise and get that man in the game. It's so childish, vindictive, and sick.

Like last week, the Redskins could have easily won this game. Denver isn't a better team and KC sure isn't. We keep hearing turnovers will come..HELLO week 6 in the NFL where are they? If you don't see trouble, something is wrong. This team is too talented to be losing games like this; these LB's are pitiful scrubs.[/QUOTE]

There should be a hell of alot of questions. The defense is steadily going down hill. Of the big plays our D has given up, all but one have come on Holdmans side. He is getting mushed at the point of attach. The screen where Priest took to the house, Holdman was being pushed out of bounds for god sake!! Its a disgrace that he is playing all the time. Even if LaVar wasn't "the backup" somebody else would be in there. The guy is awful. He can't rush the passer, which they dont even have him doing, is Marcus who is rushing and he isn't quite getting the job done either. Its awful to think the personal thing(which every sports person seems to believe it is) is getting put ahead of the team. I can't think of 31 other teams that would have him sitting on the damn bench. Even Trent Green couldn't explain what was going on, why LaVar wasn't playing. That is was easier for them to game plan with only Sean Taylor on the field vs. both he and LaVar. Its beginning to be rediculous!

Re: Why can't LaVar shut up and play special teams?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Maybe LaVar will learn to stop airing his dirty laundry in public. LaVar is constantly embarrassing both himself and the organization through the DC media.

Here's an idea LaVar -- play within the scheme, you're not above the system. While I'm not a huge LaVar fan he is a good player. I'd like to get him on the field, but not until he proves he's going to play it our way.[/QUOTE]

You know, I got into with a guy last week about this and it still annoys the hell out of me when people think LaVar has all of the sudden forgotton how to play football, schematically or not. It obsurd to think LaVar isn't a good enough player to be on the field. Have you seen Holdman get taken out of basically every single play that comes to his side. The corners are making the tackles. Holdman is getting mushed!! No matter what people think, this has nothing to do about ability, than ego. the EGO of GW thinking his D doesn't need LaVar Arrington. I am wondering how long it will take for him to realize he needs playmakers on the field. I mean if we are going to give up 4 BIG plays a game with LaVar on sideline, somebody is out of position. I think its funny that the side giving up majority of the big plays is LaVars side. Which I dont think bell would have gotten both of those long runs if LaVar is on the field, and definately the long screen pass with Priest would not have gone to the house. People on the D are trying to make up for Holdmans lack making plays and our safeties and corners are being forced out of position. the safety should have made that tackle, or the corner on the other side. Lets see somebody elses ass get benched for being out of position.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna]You hear alot about overpersuit, but Sean Taylor is playing and I've seen him cost us 14 points this year overpersuing and getting duped out of position.

That shit happens to everyone, its not like we only sucked before williams and gibbs because Lavar gave up big plays.QUOTE]

[b][i]Never really reaized that enough, Taylor has been burnt by over pursuit, you just forget that crap cause Williams loves him so much...[/i][/b]

okay ON TOP OF THAT COMPARISON, don't you think that Taylor would have pissed off the team/Williams with the crap he pulled by not showing up at all this last off-season, and then he pulled his best Dirty Harry impersonation in Miami? I mean him and Lavar have pretty much pulled the same crap, the only difference is I think Lavar is/was bigger than Williams and Williams couldn't handle that on his team.

Kind of similiar to how the Tuna got rid of Emmit as soon as he got to the Cowboys ....

Re: (MERGED THREADS) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Lavar on the bench is really know surprise, he was the most overated player in football, except now everyone knows it.

Lavar doesn't know why he's not playing? Just like he doesn't know how to follow direction when he's on the field.

I find it laughable that everyone will follow Gibbs blindly regardless of how irrational some of his decisions may look, yet question over and over again why Lavar isn't on the field, he's an overhyped media darling who's football instinkts are horrible, he's not a LB who can overpower a TE or OL on a pass rush ala LT, so how much difference will he really make? The LB's we have now can get to the QB if their given a clean shot at the QB.

Bottom line take a look at the track record's of the people who all concur on Lavar, William's, Lewis, and Paterno, they all have said the same thing's about Lavar, and I am sure they were being kind in their assesments for public consumption.[/QUOTE]

Dude, have you seen the stats this man had a few years ago, when LaVar lined up as DE only on 3rd downs? 11 sacks. What do you mean he cant make plays. He had 100 tackles as well, not even counting the assists on other tackles. Not to mention the pressures, the knockdowns, forced bad throws, and that all the while playing strongside LB, the one that usually covers the TE, not on the line of scrimmage attacking the running backs.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Could LaVar help with turnovers and pressure?

Sure he could.

But, can you LaVar supporters also entertain the notion that he could also contribute to the 'D' giving up big plays? With his reluctance to play within the system, perhaps Williams thinks he's more of a liability to a 'D' that is already being stretched thin because of the injuries in the secondary.

I'm guessing Williams doesn't see LaVar as part of the solution right now and thinks of him as only being part of the problem.[/QUOTE]

But we're already giving up big plays with the guys who are out there. While I'd like to see LaVar, I'm not saying he's the most disciplined player. I know that's a concern, but why not let him get in on the passing downs and get after the QB? Who do we take out? Killings or Boschetti, and move Wynn over to tackle, he's played there before. I'm not going to completely slam GW, he's done a great job for us. But I still think LaVar can contribute to the D's biggest (only) deficiency, getting turnovers, and there's a way that he can do it (pass rush) that will minimize the concern over undiciplined play.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

I'm not going to support either side of the LaVar argument, I AM going to say this about the point offiss raised: What was our record when LaVar had those 11 sacks?

GETTING turnovers isn't really a problem as long as we don't give UP turnovers.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]What was our record when LaVar had those 11 sacks?[/QUOTE]

If we're using that logic, Marvin Lewis' defense was ranked 5th that year with the undisciplined LaVar Arrington in on just about every defensive play.

What was Washingtons record last year with Gregg Williams "disciplined" defense?

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

Everyone is making some damn good points on this LaVar saga. I hadn't realized that Holdman has been contributing so much. 12 tackles, man that is probowl material there. And from the weak side, oh wait that means he doesn't have to worry about the TE as much. Well, 12 tackles thats still amazing. boy just imagine if he wasn't on the field how would we make up those 12 huge tackles? I am for one, punching Holmans name for the probowl. with those numbers he will end with something like 40 tackles this year, that is STRONG!! What are we all complaining about? do we think LaVar can get 12 tackles in 5 games, I think not!!


Are you kidding me, I hope you all realize that was sarcasim(spelled right?) at its best. 12 tackles from the weekside LB through 5 games, that is putrid!! I believe Carlos Rogers, a rookie corner who has only started 2 games has that many, and he even caused a fumble, we didn't get it back, but he caused one anyway. Every analyst, ever expert(so called) says there is no reason for LaVar to be sitting. Michael Irvin even said it has to be personal. I am starting to believe it. I never thought I would be so livid at my Redskins, but its an insult to all of us Skins fans if they think we are buying into this BS of LaVar not capable of playing in this D. As it was said earlier, If Marvin Lewis was having such a hard time with LaVar and his "freelancing" then why did he always have him on the field? you know why, because you have to game plan for the man, hes a playmaker, he puts fear in the hearts of those lining up under center, fear in people catching those little flares on the outside or in the middle. I saw no one around Priest a couple of times when he caught the ball in the middle of the field, and no one around to take a shot a Trent "I wear concrete on my feet" Green when he took off down the middle. Tell me he would even think about that if he is stairing down #56. Didn't Aikman try to run once, oh thats right he doesn't play anymore and wont even think about playing because he has nightmares of the Burgandy and Gold #56 drilling him into retirement!!!!!!!!

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

Anyone with 56 as part of there name and references Michael Irvin to make a point doesn't' have one. This situation is best summed up in this Quote from a current Redskin player who asked not to be identified in the Lavar Article in the Post today.

"I think both sides need to meet in the middle somehow," said the teammate who asked not to be identified. "He needs to make more of an effort, mentally, to find his place in this system, and somehow they've got to find a way to get him on the field at least in certain situations. I think they can find a way to play him a little more, but you have to earn that trust on every play, and it's not there yet, and I can understand that, too. Everyone here knows he's a big turnover guy and can make those plays, but there has to be that trust that there won't be a big play back the other way, too, and that trust is not there yet."

Why would this unidentified player be saying the same things as coaches if its not true???? So all you people bashing GW for giving us the best defense we had in years think about what your saying. Were all rooting for the Redskins not the Arrington's.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

The national media is having a great time with this issue. It has become bigger than LDS. Bigger than HOF Coach Gibbs. Bigger than G. Williams. Bigger even than LaVarr himself!

Could LaVarr have helped us to our 3 wins?

Could he have helped us in our 2 losses?

Is he overhyped because of his Draft position?

Is he indeed the 3 time Pro-Bowl player, or just another bench warmer?

Did we pay him too much, both the first and second time?

Is LaVarr sitting because LDS wants it so?

Is LaVarr sitting because he free-lances?

Is LaVarr sitting because he is still hurt?

Has HOF Coach Gibbs talked to LaVarr?

Has LDS talked to LaVarr?

Has any other NFL team called to trade for LaVarr?

Are we going to trade LaVarr before the trade deadline?

Way too many questions for one thread!


Just bring on the 49ers!

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

I am sooo sick of this i know i will :vomit-smi we don't have enough info to accuse or make a true judgement one way or another. hey, i'm as aggrivated as the next guy:banghead: . But i am going to go against the flow here and chill :cool: we are all fans and things are not going perfectly. and the main culprit is us. it's part of the evolution of a team , from a loser to a contender . we don't have alot of quality depth.that's where the salary cap fu pa's come in. but joe's building a good roster. but the job's not done.as far as lavar is concerned, i choose not to get into it simply because i have no info to make an informed desicion with. and i like both parties.it's to my benifit and theirs to work it out. do i think lavar can help ?absolutely. do i think the coaches are lieing? NO. so i am left with a choice of either rolling in it or leave it be. i'm going to leave it be.:grouphug: thanks for your time. take it easy.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=FirstandTen]Anyone with 56 as part of there name and references Michael Irvin to make a point doesn't' have one. This situation is best summed up in this Quote from a current Redskin player who asked not to be identified in the Lavar Article in the Post today.

"I think both sides need to meet in the middle somehow," said the teammate who asked not to be identified. "He needs to make more of an effort, mentally, to find his place in this system, and somehow they've got to find a way to get him on the field at least in certain situations. I think they can find a way to play him a little more, but you have to earn that trust on every play, and it's not there yet, and I can understand that, too. Everyone here knows he's a big turnover guy and can make those plays, but there has to be that trust that there won't be a big play back the other way, too, and that trust is not there yet."

Why would this unidentified player be saying the same things as coaches if its not true???? So all you people bashing GW for giving us the best defense we had in years think about what your saying. Were all rooting for the Redskins not the Arrington's.[/QUOTE]

Hey dude, go back to Mike Wilbons chat house and read what the defensive players are saying. And I believe Wilbon talks directly to the players. He says they want him on the field NOW. again, why is it you people feel the need to attack someone opinions or what they here on espn. Michael Irvin has no credit with you, he is a hall of famer. So does Troy Aikman have no credit, merrill Hodge, Jaws, those guys have no credit either. stop attacking other peoples opinions, this is what the chat is for. to express your opinions, I dont care if you disagree with what I am saying, but stop acting like spoiled brats when somebody doesnt agree with your line of thinking.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]Everyone is making some damn good points on this LaVar saga. I hadn't realized that Holdman has been contributing so much. 12 tackles, man that is probowl material there. And from the weak side, oh wait that means he doesn't have to worry about the TE as much. Well, 12 tackles thats still amazing. boy just imagine if he wasn't on the field how would we make up those 12 huge tackles? I am for one, punching Holmans name for the probowl. with those numbers he will end with something like 40 tackles this year, that is STRONG!! What are we all complaining about? do we think LaVar can get 12 tackles in 5 games, I think not!!


Are you kidding me, I hope you all realize that was sarcasim(spelled right?) at its best. 12 tackles from the weekside LB through 5 games, that is putrid!! I believe Carlos Rogers, a rookie corner who has only started 2 games has that many, and he even caused a fumble, we didn't get it back, but he caused one anyway. Every analyst, ever expert(so called) says there is no reason for LaVar to be sitting. Michael Irvin even said it has to be personal. I am starting to believe it. I never thought I would be so livid at my Redskins, but its an insult to all of us Skins fans if they think we are buying into this BS of LaVar not capable of playing in this D. As it was said earlier, If Marvin Lewis was having such a hard time with LaVar and his "freelancing" then why did he always have him on the field? you know why, because you have to game plan for the man, hes a playmaker, he puts fear in the hearts of those lining up under center, fear in people catching those little flares on the outside or in the middle. I saw no one around Priest a couple of times when he caught the ball in the middle of the field, and no one around to take a shot a Trent "I wear concrete on my feet" Green when he took off down the middle. Tell me he would even think about that if he is stairing down #56. Didn't Aikman try to run once, oh thats right he doesn't play anymore and wont even think about playing because he has nightmares of the Burgandy and Gold #56 drilling him into retirement!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

You said it all. This is becoming a huge distraction to this team, to the fans, to everyone. I think the coaches have backed themselves into a corner on this and now they don't know how to undo what's been done. Gibbs probably feels he needs to support his staff, so he will never intervene and go against what one of his coaches has done. I believe the coaches (GW and the linebacker coach) think they would somehow lose face, if they were to admit that LaVar should be playing and to actually start letting him do so.

I just wish they would focus on the most important thing - playing the 11 players on defense who can best help us to win. To say that LaVar is not part of that equation is sheer lunacy, especially with the "D" struggling as it now is.

Both sides (LaVar and coaches) need to put their egos aside, have a frank discussion, and then the coaches need to let the man play. Let him play for an entire 2 or 3 games. If they still think he shouldn't be playing after that, I can accept it and it's time to move on. But, with two back-to-back losses, I'm tired of seeing one of our biggest playmakers warming the bench.

Re: (MERGED THREADS) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy][QUOTE=LadyT]

Questioning the coaching staff is one thing. We all do that from time to time. Calling them liars, as you have done so, it something completely different. That calls for hardcore evidence to prove such an accusation.

I'm just curious why I haven't seen you take part in any discussion when we're winning?[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I call it like I see it. I don't for a minute believe that the excuses we're hearing are the full story behind all of this. Maybe that's part of the reason he's warming the bench, but I'll never believe that GW truly thinks LaVar is the 6th string (or worse) linebacker on this team. Come on, worse than Holdman? Do YOU honestly believe that? If you are being honest, you would have to say "no". And saying "no" implies that the coaches haven't been truthful as the full story of why he's not playing.

I also think LaVar hasn't helped his case by being so public in his comments. Both sides have drawn a line in the sand and I don't know how things will ever get turned around again between LaVar and his coaches.

Bottom line is - I believe we're a far better "D" when he's in the game. He has already proven he can get sacks, lead the team in tackles, and force turnovers. This year, the "D" seems incapable of doing #1 and #3. Put the man in and let him contribute where this "D" seems to be lacking.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]So now we're in favor of Snyder meddling with the team?

Wow, what a great idea that is![/QUOTE]

Management is ALSO Gibbs the TEAM President...I swear if you were not an Admin and could get me banned I would really tell you what I think of your ....opinions. That is an uncalled for personal attack...which I think you get away with too much of since you are an admin.

But I guess that cannot happen since Gibbs is also the head coach, he cannot over rule or undermine his staff. This is yet another reason why the headcoach/GM/Team President all in one person does not work. Why would the team invest $60+ Million in a guy if he is going to ride the pine?

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

"We're maybe two plays away from being 5-0, one in Denver and one yesterday," middle linebacker Lemar Marshall said. "If everybody's not on the same page, [a defense can be too aggressive], but generally that's not us. Everybody usually has a lane and is pursuing to the ball. In Denver, it was a couple of missed tackles. [On Sunday] it was more [b]overpursuing[/b], [b]guys taking bad lanes[/b]."

The above quote is from LeMar Marshall, I took the liberty of bolding the key point, which I believe is the heinous crime LaVar has been accused of, in addition to free-lancing. Just some food for thought, and the above can be found here

[url="http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20051017-115909-6848r.htm"]http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20051017-115909-6848r.htm[/url]


Of course I am sure someone will point out the other part of the quote aoubt if a player is not on the same page as applying to Arrington. Myself I say for $60+ Million, we better see if the guy still has it or not.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]Management is ALSO Gibbs the TEAM President...I swear if you were not an Admin and could get me banned I would really tell you what I think of your ....opinions. That is an uncalled for personal attack...which I think you get away with too much of since you are an admin.

But I guess that cannot happen since Gibbs is also the head coach, he cannot over rule or undermine his staff. This is yet another reason why the headcoach/GM/Team President all in one person does not work. Why would the team invest $60+ Million in a guy if he is going to ride the pine?[/QUOTE]

Personal attack?

I think you're being way too sensitive if you think that was a personal attack.

I thought you were referring to Snyder, I guess I didn't read between the lines and understand you meant Gibbs.

A simple misunderstanding.

By the way I've never banned someone for their opinions. People only get banned for an outright disrespect of forum members. If you want to cut me down because of my lousy opinions feel free. Just don't let it be a personal attack, because that would be a little hypocritical, don't ya think? ;)

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]"We're maybe two plays away from being 5-0, one in Denver and one yesterday," middle linebacker Lemar Marshall said. "If everybody's not on the same page, [a defense can be too aggressive], but generally that's not us. Everybody usually has a lane and is pursuing to the ball. In Denver, it was a couple of missed tackles. [On Sunday] it was more [b]overpursuing[/b], [b]guys taking bad lanes[/b]."

The above quote is from LeMar Marshall, I took the liberty of bolding the key point, which I believe is the heinous crime LaVar has been accused of, in addition to free-lancing. Just some food for thought, and the above can be found here

[url="http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20051017-115909-6848r.htm"]http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20051017-115909-6848r.htm[/url]


Of course I am sure someone will point out the other part of the quote aoubt if a player is not on the same page as applying to Arrington. Myself I say for $60+ Million, we better see if the guy still has it or not.[/QUOTE]

When LeMar Marshall has been in 3 probowls then he can start to call people out on defense. Until then he should be glad he has a job. Nobody on that team should be calling anyone out, whether its obvious or not. You are a team and work together. I stand by my post from yesterday, where Wilbon says he has spoken to several D starters and they all want him on the field NOW>

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

Marshall isn't calling anyone out specifically, he just said what we already know, guys aren't on the same page and guys are out of position. Nothing new here.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

I think this whole arrington situation is having a mental effect on the team. It's drawing away from our positives like our record and our offense moving the ball well. It has to be tense in that locker room especially after a loss.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]I stand by my post from yesterday, where Wilbon says he has spoken to several D starters and they all want him on the field NOW>[/QUOTE]

There's also another side to the coin here.

[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/15/AR2005101500581.html?sub=AR"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/15/AR2005101500581.html?sub=AR[/url]

[quote]In a game against St. Louis, he sacked Kurt Warner and forced a fumble to clinch the victory. But privately, Lewis said Arrington was ill prepared to handle coverage duties. Lewis, who declined to comment for this story, later told Sports Illustrated magazine that Arrington was the most "undisciplined" player he had ever coached.[/quote]

[quote]One teammate, who asked not to be identified yet remains a supporter of Arrington and believes he should be playing more, said the linebacker "cost us three games" in 2003 because of mistakes, and it became a subject of conversation in the locker room.[/quote]

[quote]This defense didn't come easy to him," the former Redskin said, "and he's had five coordinators and been through a lot of different defenses and had a lot to learn. With these coaches, there's no slack. Other coaches here were really patient with him and worked with him, and these coaches, if you don't know all of your stuff, you're not going to play. That's not their problem. That's how they look at it, and everyone there knows it. And then he got hurt, and they felt other guys did a great job, and that group had everything down, and that's who they're going with."[/quote]

[quote]By the time he got back in a game in December, Arrington was backing up Marshall. In what would become a harbinger, defensive coordinator Greg Blache told The Washington Post: "If [Arrington] wants to be on the field and compete, he'd better be where he is supposed to be, and he's got to understand that. We've had success because everybody has done their job. We don't need somebody to be a 'superstar.' "[/quote]

[quote]"He's the most outspoken guy on the team, and he said a lot of stuff that rubbed the coaches the wrong way," the former Redskin said. "And they're old-school coaches."[/quote]

[quote]"The one thing people have to understand is there is no vendetta here," Blache said. "We want to win, and we've all been around long enough to know what it takes to win, and you can't talk your way into a win in this league, you got me? You can bust your hump and do as much as you can and still lose. So we're trying to stack everything we can in our favor to get it done, and hype ain't going to do it; reputation is not going to do it. You've got to do it based on what you do on a daily basis."
The teammate who asked not to be identified said he doubts there is any sort of vendetta involving Snyder and sees this as the coaches' decision, albeit an extreme one.

"I think they are sending a message here," he said. "I think that hits the nail on the head. There's things he's done that have rubbed them the wrong way, and there are things they've done that have rubbed him the wrong way, and now it's a pissing match. In these cases usually the player loses, because you can't put yourself in the game."[/quote]

I think there are many factors that are at play here. LaVar's freelancing style, his speaking out in the media, he's missed a lot of time and has perhaps fallen behind, his overall attitude, etc.

It's not a black and white issue of he should be playing or he shouldn't. I'm hoping they can come to some sort of resolution soon, because one would have to think he could at least help rush the passer from the DE spot on 3rd downs.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

It doesn't add up, on the surface it would seem to be such an easy fix. No turnovers, add in your biggest playmaker, problem solved. GW's system seems to be more based on effort, which is why so many street free agents have been able to contribute defensively. So if Lemar Marshall can contribute, and Warrick Holdman can contribute, why can't Lavar contribute? If the bottom line is to win football games, then why not play someone who has proven REPEATEDLY that he can do just that. I'm not buying that he puts the defense in jeopardy with his freelancing, that's just spin to me. This year he's a freelancer and will have to earn time along with the other 2nd and 3rd teamers, but just last year he had tremendous football instincts and was a 3 time Pro Bowler.

Reading between the lines, it doesn't sound too promising. I mean who believed that management would have threatened to blackball Laverneus Coles? I like the direction the Skins are going in, but facts are facts. Greg Williams has already begun making it known that he'd like to be a head coach again. If the defense finishes in the top 5 again we all know he'll be a top candidate for places like Baltimore, Minnesota, Houston and Oakland. Meanwhile we've got one of the best linebackers in football languishing on the bench reportedly because things have turned into a pissing contest? If we cut or trade Lavar then we will have made a HUGE mistake just in order to prove a point. You can't have that big of a percentage of your salary cap riding the pine when he's healthy, so the handwriting is on the wall.

Me, I hope he gets a chance to play because I think we all agree that Lavar didn't suddenly forget how to play football. Maybe it's a Dan Snyder marketing thing, there are so many Arrington jerseys sold that Snyder is quelling that demand and creating a demand for Moss jerseys. Or maybe they're holding Arrington back just like they are holding back this new running game that is going to free Portis up more.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin]Greg Williams has already begun making it known that he'd like to be a head coach again.[/QUOTE]

Can you provide a reference for this?

Re: (MERGED THREADS) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

[QUOTE=LadyT][QUOTE=skinsguy]

Sorry, but I call it like I see it. I don't for a minute believe that the excuses we're hearing are the full story behind all of this. Maybe that's part of the reason he's warming the bench, but I'll never believe that GW truly thinks LaVar is the 6th string (or worse) linebacker on this team. Come on, worse than Holdman? Do YOU honestly believe that? If you are being honest, you would have to say "no". And saying "no" implies that the coaches haven't been truthful as the full story of why he's not playing.

I also think LaVar hasn't helped his case by being so public in his comments. Both sides have drawn a line in the sand and I don't know how things will ever get turned around again between LaVar and his coaches.

Bottom line is - I believe we're a far better "D" when he's in the game. He has already proven he can get sacks, lead the team in tackles, and force turnovers. This year, the "D" seems incapable of doing #1 and #3. Put the man in and let him contribute where this "D" seems to be lacking.[/QUOTE]

Andy Polen ran the numbers on yesterday's Sports Reporters show on WTEM concerning LA being a big turnovers guy and the numbers show he is not the turnover guy the fans think he is. He has about 3 INTs for his career and in the year he played 14 games for Marty he had zero forced fumbles. The bottom line is that LA is not the turnover machine he is perceived to be.

That said I do think he should be in the game for more than 2 special teams plays.

Re: (Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams
 

Trent Green said all that needs to be said regarding this. Teams have to game plan for LaVar, he is that kind of difference maker. Then you add Taylor to the mix and they are that much more dangerous. When he learned he didn't have to worry about LaVar chasing him down, or RBs, or hitting his WR across the middle, it put him at ease. The man hasn't even been on the field this year and teams still inquire if he is playing and game plan accordingly. The other teams have that much respect for him, but our coaches dont. Boy we are making teams game planning alot easier dont you think. I didn't hear they are gameplanning against Holdman, or Marshall.