Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Angry;600880]To be honest as much as I have been an advocate of Colt to get a shot, I believe that Jason is the best QB on our roster, and better than most QB's on most rosters. Suprisingly, of all of the rookies and verteran QB's that may become available for us to draft or pick up this offseason, I feel that Campbell would give us the best chance to win over the next several years. Especially if we stick with the WCO because of the amount of time it takes to learn and perfect the system.

Honestly, I want to keep the WCO. I want to keep Campbell and even Zorn. If we keep changing the offense every 2 years, then it is never going to get any better. For once I want to see them stick with something and see it through long enough to actually reap the rewards. If it can work in Philly with McNabb, then it can work in Washington with Campbell. I think that Campbell is on his way to being better than McNabb, the numbers are starting to show. The only thing that has to improve now is TD passess and Wins.[/quote]I would actually be pretty surprised if, when McNabb returns from injury, if he's more effective than Campbell is. The Eagles have OL troubles as well, and while I'd take their receivers over ours in a vacuum, I've long thought Campbell to be the more accurate passer of the two.

I think Campbell will get our receivers more chances than McNabb will get their receivers. And then, we'll see what our offense is really made of over the next 4 games or so.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

One bloggers interesting take:

[url=http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=301745]The failure of Jason Campbell in pictures (Lions game) - EXTREMESKINS.com[/url]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Just for shits and giggles, I just spent 15 minutes googling and found threads on Bucs, Bills, Raiders, Browns, Rams, and Panthers forums discussing the possibility of getting Campbell next year. Unsurprisingly, most of the people in the discussion think Soup is a solid if unspectacular QB who works his ass off, isn't a diva, and doesn't make a ton of mistakes.

Perhaps more importantly, they almost all believe he's a steal who is undervalued because of where he plays and the constant chaos here.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SBXVII;600887]One bloggers interesting take:

[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=301745"]The failure of Jason Campbell in pictures (Lions game) - EXTREMESKINS.com[/URL][/quote]


I wish those caps were in HD so I could tell who all the receivers and defenders were, but at least that guy illustrated his points.

I don't know enough about progressions or playcalling to know if those examples are entirely on Jason or not, but I will say this:

-- Regardless of what we think of Zorn as a playcaller or head coach, his coaching expertise was supposed to be as a QB coach, right?

I mean, working with Zorn for almost two years, I would expect that Jason is doing what Zorn has drilled him to do.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SBXVII;600887]One bloggers interesting take:

[url=http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=301745]The failure of Jason Campbell in pictures (Lions game) - EXTREMESKINS.com[/url][/quote]

And if you select 2-3 plays from any NFL QB's game you will see open receivers, missed reads and points left on the field. Not to call the poster a cherry picker, but he had an overall point he wanted to make and found some isolated video to support him. Also, without seeing the coaches tape it's impossible to accurately assess plays. From a TV camera angle you can't see what's happening in the pocket at the same time as seeing down the field accurately.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=dgack;600891]I wish those caps were in HD so I could tell who all the receivers and defenders were, but at least that guy illustrated his points.

I don't know enough about progressions or playcalling to know if those examples are entirely on Jason or not, but I will say this:

-- Regardless of what we think of Zorn as a playcaller or head coach, his coaching expertise was supposed to be as a QB coach, right?

I mean, working with Zorn for almost two years, I would expect that Jason is doing what Zorn has drilled him to do.[/quote]

Yeah I dunno, I've seen that thread too and it's awfully easy to take some screen caps and say hey, that guy is open, or this guy is. What the pics don't tell you is who was open when JC made the decision to throw, what the pressure on him was like, where he was in his progression, etc.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SBXVII;600887]One bloggers interesting take:

[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=301745"]The failure of Jason Campbell in pictures (Lions game) - EXTREMESKINS.com[/URL][/quote]The ones where Jason is forcing the ball deep, he's glaringly missing open receivers.

The other one's, he's using still frames to suggest that receivers will be open, but you can really do that. You need to have moving video to see how the play progresses. No matter how good you are with MS paint and red circles.

Clearly there's something to be learned from that, and it's perhaps that Campbell is being too aggressive. If it isn't there, it isn't there.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Mattyk72;600895]Yeah I dunno, I've seen that thread too and it's awfully easy to take some screen caps and say hey, that guy is open, or this guy is. What the pics don't tell you is who was open when JC made the decision to throw, what the pressure on him was like, where he was in his progression, etc.[/quote]

Perfect example is on his first photo where it looks like Campbell overlooked a wide open man on the sideline to throw into double coverage down the middle, it was a busted play (pressure from the backside caused him to step up, then pressure was coming from the right) and at the time of the throw there was no angle to make that throw based on JC's body position and the 3 defenders in the area. I am watching the Short Cut right now and this is a clear indication of the video telling a story that the facts don't back up.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Paintrain;600898]Perfect example is on his first photo where it looks like Campbell overlooked a wide open man on the sideline to throw into double coverage down the middle, it was a busted play (pressure from the backside caused him to step up, then pressure was coming from the right) and at the time of the throw there was no angle to make that throw based on JC's body position and the 3 defenders in the area. I am watching the Short Cut right now and this is a clear indication of the video telling a story that the facts don't back up.[/quote]

Perfect example. Nice work.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;600896]The ones where Jason is forcing the ball deep, he's glaringly missing open receivers.

The other one's, he's using still frames to suggest that receivers will be open, but you can really do that. You need to have moving video to see how the play progresses. No matter how good you are with MS paint and red circles.

Clearly there's something to be learned from that, and[B] it's perhaps that Campbell is being too aggressive.[/B] If it isn't there, it isn't there.[/quote]

Which would be ironic since most complainers call him too conservative and too much of a dink/dunk checkdown guy.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Paintrain;600900]Which would be ironic since most complainers call him too conservative and too much of a dink/dunk checkdown guy.[/quote]

Yeah I mean how many times have we screamed for him to take some chances even to draw a PI?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Paintrain;600900]Which would be ironic since most complainers call him too conservative and too much of a dink/dunk checkdown guy.[/quote]

He said in the offseason that they'd been working on some of those deep throws into coverage. Each time w/one exception when he's gone mid to deep to Kelly, he's just not open. Even double covered.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I wouldn't be shocked to see Campbell starting in Arizona next year (assuming he's not starting here and KW has retired).

And if Mike Shanahan is our head coach I can almost guarantee you we will talk to the Cardinals about Matt Leinart. Shanahan really likes Leinart.

(If Gruden is the coach it's a more remote possibility)

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I know that I complain about his play. My reasoning is that IMO he does nothing to elevate the play of those around him. Even 2nd year receivers that are supposed to make him better. Or to force that 8th man out of the box giving your running back more room to work with. He alerts no one about the blitzes that are coming, or should I say very rarely. When he does throw the ball deep, it looks good because it arcs up high and its going far but he doesn't hit his guy with much regularity. The fade routes that end up out of bounds. The fact that you rarely see that throw that beats a DB, by throwing it before the receiver breaks. You have to play the chess match with the MLB and I cannot take that this is the one guy in the league that is told what to do everytime. That he is the guy that caoches say hey, don't throw the ball to this guy or that guy. I'm sorry, I just can't.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;600896]The ones where Jason is forcing the ball deep, he's glaringly missing open receivers.

The other one's, he's using still frames to suggest that receivers will be open, but you can really do that. You need to have moving video to see how the play progresses. No matter how good you are with MS paint and red circles.

Clearly there's something to be learned from that, and it's perhaps that Campbell is being too aggressive. If it isn't there, it isn't there.[/quote]

But how many posters have said you need to take the shot and maybe you get a PI off it, or if he had dumped it off, they would have screamed that his completion percentage is high because he dumped it off. Sometimes, a lot of times, JC is in a no win situation with his critics.