Re: Obama Care
 

My firstdown-spelling-filter must be working because I missed that.

Re: Obama Care
 

HMMM, European nations having big financial problems because of social programs. I thought the left said they had the right programs and we should base our system off of theirs.

Re: Obama Care
 

Does anyone have kaiser permanente insurance?

Especially in the Baltimore area?

Kinda curious as to how it works. Seems like a group insurance where you go to their medical facilities? I imagine you can outside their medical community if you need to?

Ive been reviewing their offered plans, tons of material they sent and feel pretty good about one co-pay plan which would cost my girl and I $236 a month plus a 30-40 copay visit for medical and emergency visits not considered "preventative care".

or should i wait for this obama health care whatever it is to start. . .if it ever is going to be an actual health care option and not just some fluffery and puffery plan which never actually helps the people who need it.

We cant wait much longer. I dont see the health care plan kicking in any time soon (im guessing a year from now) but dont want to make my girl not eligible if she decides to bite the bullet and just go with kaiser now then a year from now miss out on a better or more affordable option.

Kaisers material was so much easier to understand compared to blue corss blue shield whose stuff was soo freakin unnecessarily confusing you wonder if they dont purposely design their contracts that way so they are unreadable and open to interpretation, pitfalls, purposeful ommissions, etc.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=over the mountain;700251]Does anyone have kaiser permanente insurance?

Especially in the Baltimore area?

Kinda curious as to how it works. Seems like a group insurance where you go to their medical facilities? I imagine you can outside their medical community if you need to?

Ive been reviewing their offered plans, tons of material they sent and feel pretty good about one co-pay plan which would cost my girl and I $236 a month plus a 30-40 copay visit for medical and emergency visits not considered "preventative care".

or should i wait for this obama health care whatever it is to start. . .if it ever is going to be an actual health care option and not just some fluffery and puffery plan which never actually helps the people who need it.

We cant wait much longer. I dont see the health care plan kicking in any time soon (im guessing a year from now) but dont want to make my girl not eligible if she decides to bite the bullet and just go with kaiser now then a year from now miss out on a better or more affordable option.

Kaisers material was so much easier to understand compared to blue corss blue shield whose stuff was soo freakin unnecessarily confusing you wonder if they dont purposely design their contracts that way so they are unreadable and open to interpretation, pitfalls, purposeful ommissions, etc.[/quote]

The first thing you will see from the Obama plan is an increase in premium so it does not matter. Not sure how old you are but I would not take the risk at my age. When I was in my 20's I did not carry health ins.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;700240]HMMM, European nations having big financial problems because of social programs. I thought the left said they had the right programs and we should base our system off of theirs.[/quote]

Difference is..... in Europe they don't work. They don't have 40 hour weeks they don't believe in that. Europe's problems can easily be solved. Tell them folks to get a job. Greece, 11 million people need 152 billion bailout? Saw a Greek american millionaire on fox business channel. He said the Greek economy is based olive oil, cheese and tourism. WTF? No property taxes in Greece, how can you raise revenue and pay for your belief of not working? This is caused by "no taxes" sound familliar. "no taxes" is supposed to psur economic growth right? Wrong it takes away the incentive to over achieve.

Re: Obama Care
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/11/AR2010051105049.html?hpid=artslot]Despite E.U. rescue fund, Spain struggles with soured private loans[/url]

Text book: over building, speculators buying multiple properties. This is what caused Bush to get on national TV and ask for 786 billioon dollars.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;700402]Difference is..... in Europe they don't work. They don't have 40 hour weeks they don't believe in that. Europe's problems can easily be solved. Tell them folks to get a job. Greece, 11 million people need 152 billion bailout? Saw a Greek american millionaire on fox business channel. He said the Greek economy is based olive oil, cheese and tourism. WTF? No property taxes in Greece, how can you raise revenue and pay for your belief of not working? This is caused by "no taxes" sound familliar. "no taxes" is supposed to psur economic growth right? [B]Wrong it takes away the incentive to over achieve[/B].[/quote]

Hello, property taxes is a state issue not a federal. The income tax in Greece is from 15 to 40 % so I don't know how you come up saying they pay no taxes. What you said in bold. No its not no taxes that take away the incentive to work. Its the social programes that they receive that allows them to be lazy and sit on their ass. If they did not have those social programs the people would have to work to provide for their families. Also all those riots over there is union works ticked at the cut backs in goverment programs.

I thought I'd check what you said about property taxes and over 25% of the people in Greece do pay property taxes.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;700429]Hello, property taxes is a state issue not a federal. The income tax in Greece is from 15 to 40 % so I don't know how you come up saying they pay no taxes. What you said in bold. No its not no taxes that take away the incentive to work. Its the social programes that they receive that allows them to be lazy and sit on their ass. If they did not have those social programs the people would have to work to provide for their families. Also all those riots over there is union works ticked at the cut backs in goverment programs.[/quote]

I am going by what the guy said on Fox Business he owns property in Greece. He is of the Greek ethnic group in the US. The point is stop comparing America to Europe we have nothing in common. You have to make over 100,000 a year to pay taxes research please.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;700431]I am going by what the guy said on Fox Business he owns property in Greece. He is of the Greek ethnic group in the US. The point is stop comparing America to Europe we have nothing in common. You have to make over 100,000 a year to pay taxes research please.[/quote]

The tax scale starts at 10,501 Euro at 15% and they just started paying property taxes a few years back. I believe that it starts for people who own more then 25,000 US dollars in property value.
[url=http://www.worldwide-tax.com/greece/greece_tax.asp]Greece Tax Laws Tax System Greece. - WorldWide-Tax.com[/url]

You guys found alot for us to have in common with Europe and Canada when pointing out their helth care system but now we should not look at what is happening over there. By the way Canada is also having the same issues.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;700272]The first thing you will see from the Obama plan is an increase in premium so it does not matter. Not sure how old you are but I would not take the risk at my age. When I was in my 20's I did not carry health ins.[/quote]

I personally have health insurance, PPO blue cross blue shield that i spend buko bucks a month on.

Im 31, when i was in my early 20s i didnt have health insurance either. afte a night of drinking in the gas lamp in san diego i woke in the hospital robbed and hit with a baseball bat to my eye.

i woke up in hospital, cop standig there says "youve been robbed". i got back into unconsciousness. wake up again right as im about to go into an mri tube. got back to unconsciousness.

wake again, this time im able to maintain consciousness, tell doctors i dont have health insurance and that i am refusing medical attention. docotr gets pissed, tells me i have a tripod fracture, etc etc..

i stumble for miles trying to get back to downtown where i live. walk on a bus dont pay anything, im covered covered in blood.

long story short - i needed 20k in facial reconstructive surgery with no health insurance.

luckily there is a thing called crime victims fund which has a max pay out of 20k. money for the fund comes from guys in jail for violent crimes. so if they get $1 an hour for working as a cook in jail, 70 cents goes into the fund.

just got the screws, plates and medical plastic holding my eye ball in place taken out last year.

so yeah, who needs health insurance? just make sure when you get injured its done by a guy with a bat!

Re: Obama Care
 

Anyone have kaiser permanente health insurance?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=over the mountain;700474]I personally have health insurance, PPO blue cross blue shield that i spend buko bucks a month on.

Im 31, when i was in my early 20s i didnt have health insurance either. afte a night of drinking in the gas lamp in san diego i woke in the hospital robbed and hit with a baseball bat to my eye.

i woke up in hospital, cop standig there says "youve been robbed". i got back into unconsciousness. wake up again right as im about to go into an mri tube. got back to unconsciousness.

wake again, this time im able to maintain consciousness, tell doctors i dont have health insurance and that i am refusing medical attention. docotr gets pissed, tells me i have a tripod fracture, etc etc..

i stumble for miles trying to get back to downtown where i live. walk on a bus dont pay anything, im covered covered in blood.

long story short - i needed 20k in facial reconstructive surgery with no health insurance.

luckily there is a thing called crime victims fund which has a max pay out of 20k. money for the fund comes from guys in jail for violent crimes. so if they get $1 an hour for working as a cook in jail, 70 cents goes into the fund.

just got the screws, plates and medical plastic holding my eye ball in place taken out last year.

so yeah, who needs health insurance? just make sure when you get injured its done by a guy with a bat![/quote]

Walked OUT of the F..nnn hospital??? HOLY SHIT, Chuck Norris have a kid named Over the M....????

Re: Obama Care
 

i was numb to the pain there. i was in pain but so much pain and morphin etc i was a zombie thoo.

my chuck norris moment came 2 years ago during the playoffs. me and my girl are cooking all this food before the games, getting everything ready for an awesome 8 hours of football.

i try and pry off the top part of one of those glass peppercorn grinders with a screw driver. i crush the glass, my thumb is split the f open. blood all over the place. i know the cut is deep and not good. i know i should go to to the hospital but my girl is freakin and i dont want to go to the hospital and miss the games and ruin our perfectly planned day.

i say im going to the hospital, she should stay and enjoy the day. she wont have it, insists on going to.

so i say F it, i dont need stiches just a trip to CVS.

so we eat, drink watch the games. monday morning i act like im going to work but head over to hopkins to have it checked out. they said that i needed stiches but 2 days have passed.

that was one of those "fuck my bleeding hand, football is ON" moments.

to a point made earlier in this thread about how hispanic people were mad when you got pulled ahead of line for an emergency. the same thing at hopkins happened that time. im waiting in the waiting area to get a spot in the waiting room. (lots of waiting going on) full of crack heads and old people with breathing problems.

a nurse walks by me, stops, does a double take, then motions me over to the intake lady. they called a doctor from the back to look at me right there. after some tetnis shots i was on my way. there are benefits to being a professional looking white guy.

sorry i talk so long on here fellas. its what i do when im at work

Re: Obama Care
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100702/ap_on_bi_ge/us_med_er_crowding]Health overhaul may mean longer ER waits, crowding - Yahoo! News[/url]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;710416][URL="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100702/ap_on_bi_ge/us_med_er_crowding"]Health overhaul may mean longer ER waits, crowding - Yahoo! News[/URL][/quote]

Thats not news as most people knew that would happen. Wait until peoples rates jump 15 to 20% because of these changes or their company drops their coverage. The three doctors I know have a plain to pretty much have enough to retire in 5 yrs. when they think the sh!t will hit the fan. I've never really had the time to ask them what they think is going to happen but they all seem to agree with this 5 yr thing. I'll see one of them this weekend and if I get a chance I'll ask him about this.

Re: Obama Care
 

Everyone, especially those with aging parents may want to read about Obama's latest appointee (not only a recess appointment, but not even a hearing)

[url=http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/07/morning-bell-the-rationer-in-chief/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell]Morning Bell: The Rationer-in-Chief | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.[/url]

$ 49K to extend a life one year, just to put into perspective a single cancer treatment costs approximately $ 25K.

This guy is supported by the American Association of Homes and Services for the Aging, the AMA and others in the healthcare industry....because he's going to limit their costs and help them reach greater profitability.

Berwick -- a pediatrician, Harvard University professor and leader of a health care nonprofit organization -- told an interviewer last year, "The decision is not whether or not we will ration care - the decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly."

Re: Obama Care
 

I am afraid for my life. OOOOH!!! boogey man. It just doesn't have the same shock value Slinging Sammy. Conservatives have been crying wolf the last two years. Gansta punditry is no longer in style. Let's try Emo punditry next time.


[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;711153]Everyone, especially those with aging parents may want to read about Obama's latest appointee (not only a recess appointment, but not even a hearing)

[url=http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/07/morning-bell-the-rationer-in-chief/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell]Morning Bell: The Rationer-in-Chief | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.[/url]

$ 49K to extend a life one year, just to put into perspective a single cancer treatment costs approximately $ 25K.

This guy is supported by the American Association of Homes and Services for the Aging, the AMA and others in the healthcare industry....because he's going to limit their costs and help them reach greater profitability.

Berwick -- a pediatrician, Harvard University professor and leader of a health care nonprofit organization -- told an interviewer last year, "The decision is not whether or not we will ration care - the decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly."[/quote]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;711153]Everyone, especially those with aging parents may want to read about Obama's latest appointee (not only a recess appointment, but not even a hearing)

[URL="http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/07/morning-bell-the-rationer-in-chief/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell"]Morning Bell: The Rationer-in-Chief | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.[/URL]

$ 49K to extend a life one year, just to put into perspective a single cancer treatment costs approximately $ 25K.

This guy is supported by the American Association of Homes and Services for the Aging, the AMA and others in the healthcare industry....because he's going to limit their costs and help them reach greater profitability.

Berwick -- a pediatrician, Harvard University professor and leader of a health care nonprofit organization -- told an interviewer last year, "The decision is not whether or not we will ration care - the decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly."[/quote]


The source you quoted is not jaded at all. :doh:

Re: Obama Care
 

FD you are obviously opposed to the new health care. i would assume you are paying a lot, being self employed. why the opposition? you express tons of rage over Obama's' plan, but never really state why you hate it so much. the people that work for you, do you cover them?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mredskins;711159]The source you quoted is not jaded at all. :doh:[/quote]Find a point in the link that is not backed up by facts or evidence, then get back to me. I forgot all my links had to be from the NY Times or Huffington Post.

Re: Obama Care
 

not that its right or wrong, but she went outside their network, when she was warned of the consequences
A woman dying of cancer was denied free National Health Service treatment in her final months because she had paid privately for a drug to try to prolong her life.

Linda O’Boyle was told that as she had paid for private treatment she was banned from free NHS care.

Re: Obama Care
 

i can't wait until the Republicans win the House and Senate. The Bush Depression is gonna be blamed on them. hahahahah!

Re: Obama Care
 

I bought me a chalk board bout to start me a web site. Tea Party making allusions to Satanism, Nazism, and Plaguerism (on my part from Glenn Beck). HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;711153]Everyone, especially those with aging parents may want to read about Obama's latest appointee (not only a recess appointment, but not even a hearing)

[url=http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/07/morning-bell-the-rationer-in-chief/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell]Morning Bell: The Rationer-in-Chief | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.[/url]

$ 49K to extend a life one year, just to put into perspective a single cancer treatment costs approximately $ 25K.

This guy is supported by the American Association of Homes and Services for the Aging, the AMA and others in the healthcare industry....because he's going to limit their costs and help them reach greater profitability.

Berwick -- a pediatrician, Harvard University professor and leader of a health care nonprofit organization -- told an interviewer last year, "The decision is not whether or not we will ration care - the decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. And right now, we are doing it blindly."[/quote]


Wow, that's terrible....it should never happen. Fortunately it will never happen here seeing how the drug companies run the prison and ACA is private insurance centric. We're going to put a stop to [URL="http://www.gazette.com/articles/rosa-101227-carrington-threatened.html"]this sort of thing[/URL] though.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;711223][B]not that its right or wrong,[/B] but she went outside their network, when she was warned of the consequences
A woman dying of cancer was denied free National Health Service treatment in her final months because she had paid privately for a drug to try to prolong her life.

Linda O’Boyle was told that as she had paid for private treatment she was banned from free NHS care.[/quote]

See, I thought those on the left who support the Public Option/Nationalized health care were upset when people were dying because they couldn't afford private insurance or were denied coverage due to a pre-existing condition.

But when a government-controlled, national health insurance system does the same thing, it's 'oh well, they warned her ... that's what she gets...'

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;711223]not that its right or wrong, but she went outside their network, when she was warned of the consequences
A woman dying of cancer was denied free National Health Service treatment in her final months because she had paid privately for a drug to try to prolong her life.

Linda O’Boyle was told that as she had paid for private treatment she was banned from free NHS care.[/quote]

That is a bad policy and I'm sure it's going to be reversed. She was the first and hopefully the last before change in policy takes place. People should be able to supplement their treatment, always.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;711238]Wow, that's terrible....it should never happen. Fortunately it will never happen here seeing how the drug companies run the prison and ACA is private insurance centric. We're going to put a stop to [URL="http://www.gazette.com/articles/rosa-101227-carrington-threatened.html"]this sort of thing[/URL] though.[/quote]

Terrible indeed, and hopefully, when all the hospitals are eventually run by the government there won't be anything more like [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/30/va.hospital.hiv/index.html"]this.[/URL]

Re: Obama Care
 

Well to be honest if its a national or private coverage we do need some form of rationing coverage because we are spending billions and billions on treatments each year on people who it will not help. People think by the government getting involved everything will now be covered but if anything less stuff will now be covered by ins. Don't worry if you cough you can run to the doctors but if your dying and need some major watch out because that where they are going to cut cost.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Beemnseven;711244]Terrible indeed, and hopefully, when all the hospitals are eventually run by the government there won't be anything more like [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/30/va.hospital.hiv/index.html"]this.[/URL][/quote]

Let's hope it won't be as bad as the price we are [URL="http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/11856.php"]currently paying[/URL].

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;711249]Let's hope it won't be as bad as the price we are [URL="http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/11856.php"]currently paying[/URL].[/quote]

Of course, the significant distinction is that those families can sue private insurers for damages.

A course of action that's coincidentally [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feres_v._United_States"]not available[/URL] to veterans in [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/24/eveningnews/main4890657.shtml"]mishaps[/URL] that occur in a military hospital.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Beemnseven;711254]Of course, the significant distinction is that those families can sue private insurers for damages.

A course of action that's coincidentally [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feres_v._United_States"]not available[/URL] to veterans in [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/24/eveningnews/main4890657.shtml"]mishaps[/URL] that occur in a military hospital.[/quote]

You're telling me that if you sign up to serve and get shot in a friendly fire incident you should be able to sue the US? Preposterous proposition. You are only entitled to damages if the a [URL="http://law.freeadvice.com/malpractice_law/hospital_malpractice/veterans-medical-malpractice-claim.htm"]VA Hospital f's up[/URL] your back surgery not if you pull your back while lifting a heavy box. And of course if you do pull your back lifting a box they give you time off and pay your medical bills too.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;711281]You're telling me that if you sign up to serve and get shot in a friendly fire incident you should be able to sue the US? Preposterous proposition. You are only entitled to damages if the a [URL="http://law.freeadvice.com/malpractice_law/hospital_malpractice/veterans-medical-malpractice-claim.htm"]VA Hospital f's up[/URL] your back surgery not if you pull your back while lifting a heavy box. And of course if you do pull your back lifting a box they give you time off and pay your medical bills too.[/quote]

Maybe you can forward that web address to the family of Marine Sgt. Carmelo Rodriguez.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Beemnseven;711377]Maybe you can forward that web address to the family of Marine Sgt. Carmelo Rodriguez.[/quote]

Let's get one thing straight the government should be liable if it is pure negligence as is the case Rodriguez tragedy but there is something to be said for not allowing any active duty member of the armed to sue the military.

Re: Obama Care
 

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2224542020100922]UPDATE 2-Obama tries to humanize the healthcare debate | Reuters[/url]


Obama held a press conference on his health care bill on my brothers street yesterday. All of a sudden his street got completely blocked off and he wasnt allowed to leave. He did get a bunch of pictures of the President’s motorcade. It was pretty cool.

So i sent the pictures around to everyone at work, then my boss and i talked about it. At first we thought that I thought that the press conference must have been about home ownership, my brother lives in Falls Church and it’s a very middle class area and about 70% Hispanic neighborhood. But it was about healthcare, so why would you hold a press conference on healthcare in someone’s back yard on the first day the reform starts to take place? To make the emotional aspect of health care reform take prominence………

Re: Obama Care
 

And then there's this:

[url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/22/major-insurers-stop-selling-child-policies-ahead-new-obamacare-provisions/]FOXNews.com - Do Kids Count? Insurers Stop Selling Child-Only Policies Ahead of ObamaCare Provisions[/url]

What do you expect when you force insurance co. to do things that attack their earnings?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mlmpetert;737834][url=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2224542020100922]UPDATE 2-Obama tries to humanize the healthcare debate | Reuters[/url]


Obama held a press conference on his health care bill on my brothers street yesterday. All of a sudden his street got completely blocked off and he wasnt allowed to leave. He did get a bunch of pictures of the President’s motorcade. It was pretty cool.

So i sent the pictures around to everyone at work, then my boss and i talked about it. At first we thought that I thought that the press conference must have been about home ownership, my brother lives in Falls Church and it’s a very middle class area and about 70% Hispanic neighborhood. But it was about healthcare, so why would you hold a press conference on healthcare in someone’s back yard on the first day the reform starts to take place? To make the emotional aspect of health care reform take prominence………[/quote]

Healthcare has always been humanized from the get go, this is about combating republican misinformation, connecting with as many voters and winning elections.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mlmpetert;737835]And then there's this:

[url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/22/major-insurers-stop-selling-child-policies-ahead-new-obamacare-provisions/]FOXNews.com - Do Kids Count? Insurers Stop Selling Child-Only Policies Ahead of ObamaCare Provisions[/url]

What do you expect when you force insurance co. to do things that attack their earnings?[/quote]

I agree with the insurance companies....imagine that...that's just crazy! If kids being on their parent's insurance policy stops gaming of the system I'm all for it.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;737839]I agree with the insurance companies....imagine that...that's just crazy! If kids being on their parent's insurance policy stops gaming of the system I'm all for it.[/quote]

The only thing it stops is having to write new policies for children already sick. It does not and cannot stop them from adding the already sick kid to their policy. This also sounds so nice but if they could not afford to buy their own policy they probably cannot afford to buy coverage under the parents policy. So what will happen is the sick children who for what ever reason does not have ins. will now get on their parents policy. This will drive up the cost for the employers even though they are not paying the premium it will drive up the losses/rates. Bottom line rates are going up and that chart is just crap.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;738237]The only thing it stops is having to write new policies for children already sick. It does not and cannot stop them from adding the already sick kid to their policy. This also sounds so nice but if they could not afford to buy their own policy they probably cannot afford to buy coverage under the parents policy. So what will happen is the sick children who for what ever reason does not have ins. will now get on their parents policy. This will drive up the cost for the employers even though they are not paying the premium it will drive up the losses/rates. Bottom line rates are going up and that chart is just crap.[/quote]

What the devil are you talking about? They're stopping all child-only policies. They never covered any sick children with pre-existing before ! All they are doing now with this move is trying to garner more customers and add to their bottom line which is fine (the parent comes with the child).

Oh and due to federal law employers can't refuse health insurance if you or your child have a pre-existing condition for more than 18 months thanks to Republican congress passed Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996.
.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;564216]Second there is not that many people denied health coverage or cannot afford health care to tear apart our health care system. Does it need some work. Yes but goverment is one of the biggest problems with health care coverage today.[/quote]

Not that many people? That's an absurd statement. How many tens of millions of legal citizens does it take?

Government might be one of the biggest problems, but the biggest problem is that Health Insurance companies have been raping the American people forever and they don't want to give up all that money that they steal from us. Why would anyone want to protect these interests? Money for campaigns. It's all about money.