Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

I really do not think Kirk is the greedy d-bag that some think he is. Let's just see how this pans out before we decide what the truth is.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1161640]At the end of the day, I want our team to win. If that means me being wrong about Cousins and we do end up paying him a kings ransom and it works out, so be it. I don't envy SM on this decision.[/QUOTE]



That's the beauty of my solution- you cover yourself and are good at the most important position either way.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;1161662]That's the beauty of my solution- you cover yourself and are good at the most important position either way.[/QUOTE]



This beautiful solution that you keep alluding to ... what exactly is it?
Best I can tell you want to sign him to a long term deal. Ok. Than you want to go get a replacement in the meantime and trade Cousins if the replacement is a better option?
Break it down for me so I can figure out what makes your plan the best.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1161663]This beautiful solution that you keep alluding to ... what exactly is it?
Best I can tell you want to sign him to a long term deal. Ok. Than you want to go get a replacement in the meantime and trade Cousins if the replacement is a better option?
Break it down for me so I can figure out what makes your plan the best.[/quote]

dude...why?

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1161660]I really do not think Kirk is the greedy d-bag that some think he is. Let's just see how this pans out before we decide what the truth is.[/QUOTE]



Let's face it - a majority of people are greedy. And not just the NFL. At this point, I don't fault him for this.

But as a Redskins fan first, I take offense to the way he's discussed his contract and seemingly openness to leaving. And the lack of positivity expressed for the Redskins team, including teammates and coaches, and also for the Redskins' future.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1161663]This beautiful solution that you keep alluding to ... what exactly is it?
Best I can tell you want to sign him to a long term deal. Ok. Than you want to go get a replacement in the meantime and trade Cousins if the replacement is a better option?
Break it down for me so I can figure out what makes your plan the best.[/QUOTE]



I swear to god!

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Signing KC to a long term deal, and than if it doesn't pan out find a replacement and trade Cousins?
How is this a beautiful solution? Lol. Replacements are hard to find. It just took us about 33 years.
What about the other holes we have to fill? Don't they come into the discussion? If it were as easy as you say it would have been done a year ago. It just is not that simple.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1161665]dude...why?[/QUOTE]



Lol. For my own sanity. Sorry. If he really has some solution to our problems that I just haven't honed in on I need to know.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;1161666]Let's face it - a majority of people are greedy. And not just the NFL. At this point, I don't fault him for this.

But as a Redskins fan first, I take offense to the way he's discussed his contract and seemingly openness to leaving. And the lack of positivity expressed for the Redskins team, including teammates and coaches, and also for the Redskins' future.[/QUOTE]



We get that. Very much.
What makes your "solution" so brilliant? Thats all I was asking. Im done now. Sorry Chico. You were right and I was wrong. I swear to God.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1161663]This beautiful solution that you keep alluding to ... what exactly is it?
Best I can tell you want to sign him to a long term deal. Ok. Than you want to go get a replacement in the meantime and trade Cousins if the replacement is a better option?
Break it down for me so I can figure out what makes your plan the best.[/QUOTE]



Do you want me to start with the ABCs or the Birds and the Bees?

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;1161671]Do you want me to start with the ABCs or the Birds and the Bees?[/QUOTE]



No please. My bad. I get ya.

Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1161668]Signing KC to a long term deal, and than if it doesn't pan out find a replacement and trade Cousins?
How is this a beautiful solution? Lol. Replacements are hard to find. It just took us about 33 years.
What about the other holes we have to fill? Don't they come into the discussion? If it were as easy as you say it would have been done a year ago. It just is not that simple.[/QUOTE]



I hope you get that you have Cousins still if you don't find a replacement, right?

I just wanted to make sure that everyone is following what I'm saying.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;1161673]I hope you get that you have Cousins still if you don't find a replacement, right?

I just wanted to make sure that everyone is following what I'm saying.[/QUOTE]



Obviously if we sign KC than we have KC. Yes. Not to many people do not want to sign him. We have a shit ton of holes on defense and a couple of holes on offense. So if we give KC big money and he doesn't "pan out" than we cannot just grab a replacement and trade Cousins. Your beautiful solution is just not how it works...usually.

I am hoping he signs for 20. That would be ideal. Lock him up and bolster the shit out of our defense. If it is 23 -25 than I would not be as happy but at this point I would probably still do it and hope to God we hit on every draft pick and pluck a low priced gem or two from free agency. Fingers crossed.

Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

... you only trade Cousins if you find a replacement. But if you don't find a replacement, he's still under contract.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;1161677]... you only trade Cousins if you find a replacement. But if you don't, he's still under contract.[/QUOTE]



Not trying to be rude but you are being slightly "Captain obvious"-ish.
Of course. I mean what is the alternative. Sign him long term. Than if he craps the bed just go with it for 7 years?
The point is that giving someone a long term deal is always a risk. You are tying up a boat load of money. Especially when your team needs a whole new defense.
However most of us are on board with locking him up. You have no brilliant solution to anything if it doesn't work out though. Lol.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1161676]Obviously if we sign KC than we have KC. Yes. Not to many people do not want to sign him. We have a shit ton of holes on defense and a couple of holes on offense. So if we give KC big money and he doesn't "pan out" than we cannot just grab a replacement and trade Cousins. Your beautiful solution is just not how it works...usually.

I am hoping he signs for 20. That would be ideal. Lock him up and bolster the shit out of our defense. If it is 23 -25 than I would not be as happy but at this point I would probably still do it and hope to God we hit on every draft pick and pluck a low priced gem or two from free agency. Fingers crossed.[/QUOTE]



At the very least, you have Cousins and a big salary cap hit. That's worst case scenario with my solution. Which is better than having nobody at QB and plenty of cap space.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

my problem with your beautiful solution is KC. He doesn't seem the type that would take the Skins looking for other solutions in stride, I think it would cause him to play poorly, and thus create the need for other solutions, which would cause him to play even more poorly, thus making the need for another solution even greater. You see the cycle right?

I agree you pay KC, but that's it. He's the guy at that point, you commit and focus on solving the rest of the teams issues. He knows he's the guy, he puts the contract worries behind him, he plays better, that makes the rest of the team better, which enhances your ability to bring better players to a winning team, which surrounds KC with better offensive and defensive talent, which leads to KC playing better. Now [B][I][U]that's[/U][/I][/B] a beautiful solution!

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1161681]my problem with your beautiful solution is KC. He doesn't seem the type that would take the Skins looking for other solutions in stride, I think it would cause him to play poorly, and thus create the need for other solutions, which would cause him to play even more poorly, thus making the need for another solution even greater. You see the cycle right?



I agree you pay KC, but that's it. He's the guy at that point, you commit and focus on solving the rest of the teams issues. He knows he's the guy, he puts the contract worries behind him, he plays better, that makes the rest of the team better, which enhances your ability to bring better players to a winning team, which surrounds KC with better offensive and defensive talent, which leads to KC playing better. Now [B][I][U]that's[/U][/I][/B] a beautiful solution![/QUOTE]



Right. Lock him up. We will hope it is closer to 20 than 25. Than build that D. Grab a rb and a center or a T,G if there is a good one available. Help the run game. But most importantly build the d. First round pick has got to be on defense. There can be no ignoring it any more. I would rather spend a chunk of change on a big defensive free agent than getting two "bodies" for the same money. We need three new "play makers", and a healthy and effective Cravens next year!

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1161681]my problem with your beautiful solution is KC. He doesn't seem the type that would take the Skins looking for other solutions in stride, I think it would cause him to play poorly, and thus create the need for other solutions, which would cause him to play even more poorly, thus making the need for another solution even greater. You see the cycle right?



I agree you pay KC, but that's it. He's the guy at that point, you commit and focus on solving the rest of the teams issues. He knows he's the guy, he puts the contract worries behind him, he plays better, that makes the rest of the team better, which enhances your ability to bring better players to a winning team, which surrounds KC with better offensive and defensive talent, which leads to KC playing better. Now [B][I][U]that's[/U][/I][/B] a beautiful solution![/QUOTE]



I have a lot to say to a lot things in your post, which was good. But I think the main thing is - this is what everyone wants. But there still seems to be reluctance from the Redskins' front office to sign him long-term and he'll be that guy - even with the support. I honestly don't know either way. But I think my way of handling it is the best compromise, based on what the Redskins seem to be thinking with Cousins.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

So if they're relunctant - right or wrong- then sign him anyway with an eye towards trading him. At least you get something for him if you trade him.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

So if you're planning on letting him go anyway... don't. Don't let him go for nothing.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

... In other words, treat him like an asset.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1161687]Right. Lock him up. We will hope it is closer to 20 than 25. Than build that D. Grab a rb and a center or a T,G if there is a good one available. Help the run game. But most importantly build the d. First round pick has got to be on defense. There can be no ignoring it any more. I would rather spend a chunk of change on a big defensive free agent than getting two "bodies" for the same money. We need three new "play makers", and a healthy and effective Cravens next year![/quote]

First round pick has to be best player available. Hopefully that is someone on defense.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1161699]First round pick has to be best player available. Hopefully that is someone on defense.[/QUOTE]



I am going to go against the court of public opinion and say it has to be bpa on defense. Honestly if their is some stud rb, wr, te, or oline guy sitting there I do not want him. Lol. Whoever the next bpa is down our board that is on defense cannot grade out so much less than the offensive guy that it is not worth it. First round. There will be plenty of good picks on both sides of the ball. I would actually say the same for rounds 1-4. That is how bad our defense is.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1161693]I have a lot to say to a lot things in your post, which was good. But I think the main thing is - this is what everyone wants. But there still seems to be reluctance from the Redskins' front office to sign him long-term and he'll be that guy - even with the support. I honestly don't know either way. But I think my way of handling it is the best compromise, based on what the Redskins seem to be thinking with Cousins.[/quote]

It is more than reasonable doubt in the front office. Regardless of what we've seen on the field, for whatever reason the office wants to go a different direction potentially. Cooley has hinted at it, tons of other players have said the same thing.

The irony, to me, is that the Redskins' issue is paying Cousins long-term. This would be totally different if he went to them and said "I'll do it for 15 million a season". BUT - he is going to get the average starting QB price of between 20 and 23 million. Now is where we get stupid in our typical Redskins ways. We don't want to pay him big money, so we are prepared to FRANCHISE TAG him yet again for a 2nd year, which *cough* - raises his price yet again. I do not have the exact figure, but i believe he would get around a 24 million season for 2017.

Where is our advantage in tagging him for the 2nd straight year? Is it that we hope we just have him for one more year while we find his replacement? I've had a hard time understanding where our thinking is right now especially at the QB position. Like, i get that they want to go cheap at QB, but how many places has that worked???

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Its December 2017 at Fed Ex Field and the 2-11 Washington Redskins take the field. Led by Nate Sudfield after Colt McCoy ended ANOTHER season with injury. Their opponent is the 11-2 Denver Broncos led by Kirk Cousins and their first year Head Coach Kyle Shanahan.

Since we play Denver at home next year. I figured this scenario would be very "Redskin-ish".

But Hey...Lets not Re-sign Kirk. Whats the worse that can happen? Lol

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Bucket;1161825]Its December 2017 at Fed Ex Field and the 2-11 Washington Redskins take the field. Led by Nate Sudfield after Colt McCoy ended ANOTHER season with injury. Their opponent is the 11-2 Denver Broncos led by Kirk Cousins and their first year Head Coach Kyle Shanahan.

Since we play Denver at home next year. I figured this scenario would be very "Redskin-ish".

But Hey...Lets not Re-sign Kirk. Whats the worse that can happen? Lol[/quote]

And this is what would prob happen

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

I'm sure this is not going to change anyones mind one way or the other,but I am shocked at how bad they grade Cousins,barely over griffin.But their rankings had Trent Williams grade as the top overall player at any position.
[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2685170-nfl1000-final-regular-season-breakdown-of-the-leagues-top-players/page/4]NFL1000: Final Regular Season Breakdown of the League's Top Players | Bleacher Report[/url]

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1161853]I'm sure this is not going to change anyones mind one way or the other,but I am shocked at how bad they grade Cousins,barely over griffin.But their rankings had Trent Williams grade as the top overall player at any position.
[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2685170-nfl1000-final-regular-season-breakdown-of-the-leagues-top-players/page/4]NFL1000: Final Regular Season Breakdown of the League's Top Players | Bleacher Report[/url][/quote]

The validity of the analytical methods used here is highly, highly questionable. Never do they establish a link between their methodology and winning - you have to demonstrate that there's a correlation between your scoring and the probability of winning. They certainly don't at all. I wouldn't use this data.

Use ESPN's QBR, or PFF's DVOA, or Football Outsiders, or some of the other strong analytical groups that actually have pages describing how their methodology is connected to win probability.

ESPN's QBR is by far the strongest.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1161853]I'm sure this is not going to change anyones mind one way or the other,but I am shocked at how bad they grade Cousins,barely over griffin.But their rankings had Trent Williams grade as the top overall player at any position.
[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2685170-nfl1000-final-regular-season-breakdown-of-the-leagues-top-players/page/4]NFL1000: Final Regular Season Breakdown of the League's Top Players | Bleacher Report[/url][/quote]

They guy who did those rankings is widely known as a Kirk hater on twitter. He blocks anyone who disagrees with him and refuses to go on the radio to explain.

He also had Sam Bradford, Cam Newton in his top 5 QB this year

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Kirk has to be the future as of right now, who else are we seriously going to get? I don't want to go out and sign some free agent, and the draft is chalked full of crap QBs this year....to me our only option is Kirk, unfortunately he chokes in big games, which is very Romo-esque

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1161853]I'm sure this is not going to change anyones mind one way or the other,but I am shocked at how bad they grade Cousins,barely over griffin.But their rankings had Trent Williams grade as the top overall player at any position.
[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2685170-nfl1000-final-regular-season-breakdown-of-the-leagues-top-players/page/4]NFL1000: Final Regular Season Breakdown of the League's Top Players | Bleacher Report[/url][/quote]

Not to continuously shit on this post, but Bleacher Report. I cant trust anything they say

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=NCSUredskin;1161859]Kirk has to be the future as of right now, who else are we seriously going to get? I don't want to go out and sign some free agent, and the draft is chalked full of crap QBs this year....to me our only option is Kirk, unfortunately he chokes in big games, which is very Romo-esque[/quote]

Really, how may big games has Kirk choked in? Green Bay in the playoffs last season? I'll give you he didnt play well, but the whole team stunk it up, not just him. Week 17 New York this season? Again yes, but the whole team stunk it up. Week 16 last season vs the Eagles to clinch the division was a big game where he played well. If you wanna throw in Carolina this season as a choke, then you have to throw in a number of games towards the end of last season where he was clutch. I just don't think there's a big enough sample size to say he's a choker

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1161855]The validity of the analytical methods used here is highly, highly questionable. Never do they establish a link between their methodology and winning - you have to demonstrate that there's a correlation between your scoring and the probability of winning. They certainly don't at all. I wouldn't use this data.

Use ESPN's QBR, or PFF's DVOA, or Football Outsiders, or some of the other strong analytical groups that actually have pages describing how their methodology is connected to win probability.

ESPN's QBR is by far the strongest.[/quote]

[url=http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr]NFL Total Quarterback Rating - National Football League - ESPN[/url]

For the lazy KC is top 5.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

For the uninitiated, here's the very basics on how QBR works.

If you're at your own 20, and it's first and 10, there's a certain expectation for the number of points the average QB can be expected to put up in that situation. Maybe the average QB finishes some drives starting in that position with a FG, maybe finishes some starting there with a TD, maybe some with a punt, and maybe some in a turnover. When you add it all up, maybe the typical QB comes away with 2 points on average in those situations. So we say a 1st and 10 at your 20 is worth 2 expected points on the scoreboard.

Well if you hit a 30 yard pass taking the ball to the 50, and then you have 1st and 10 from there, well you've just improved your odds to score points on this drive significantly. Your chances of at least getting a FG have gone way up, right? And your chances of finishing with a TD have improved, too. So when you look at the average points scored by the average QB on drives starting at 1st and 10 from the 50, the average points scored there might be 3.

So in other words, hitting that 30 yard pass to go from your own 20 to the 50 improved your expected points scored by 1 whole point. You were expected to get 2 points out of the drive when you were at the 20, and you're expected to get 3 out of drive from the 50. The difference is the impact you made on the play.

Now, let's say you're 1st and goal from the 5. The expectation might be you'll get 5 points out of that situation, on average. If you throw a pass and you get the TD, you get credit for scoring 7, so that throw was worth 2 points. Likewise, if you go 3 and out and have to attempt a FG, then your expected points drop from 5 to 3, so you get hit with a -2 expected points for failing to come up with that TD.

So it weights the play you make against the expected outcome given the situation. And then ESPN goes a step further to assign a clutch weighting. If you make a big throw in the 4th quarter when you're down by one score, they weight that much more heavily than if you make a big throw when you're down by 3 TDs in the 4th quarter (garbage time).

Then they take the results and they index them, with 50 being average and 100 being perfect.

So it does a great job of measuring a QB's impact on the likelihood that his team will win the game. Still, there's a factor built in there - if your team protects you well and your receivers get open well, then you're more likely to succeed and end up with a better QBR. So you have to adjust for that.

If you see a QB rated highly in QBR despite a crappy line and mediocre receivers, you should basically consider that QB a god. Andrew Luck jumps out - being 7th in QBR despite that horrendous surrounding cast speaks to just how amazing he is. If he gets a surrounding cast, watch out!

Likewise, Cousins is not the 5th best QB in the league. He has performed that way because our line is boss and our receivers are plentiful. Don't get me wrong, I'd still pay him. But you have to mentally adjust a bit for surrounding cast and circumstances.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1161853]I'm sure this is not going to change anyones mind one way or the other,but I am shocked at how bad they grade Cousins,barely over griffin.But their rankings had Trent Williams grade as the top overall player at any position.
[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2685170-nfl1000-final-regular-season-breakdown-of-the-leagues-top-players/page/4]NFL1000: Final Regular Season Breakdown of the League's Top Players | Bleacher Report[/url][/quote]

I can't tolerate any website that will autoplay an annoying ass video at high volume, but when you search the page to turn that shit off you can't find the video.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=SirLK26;1161863]Really, how may big games has Kirk choked in? Green Bay in the playoffs last season? I'll give you he didnt play well, but the whole team stunk it up, not just him. Week 17 New York this season? Again yes, but the whole team stunk it up. Week 16 last season vs the Eagles to clinch the division was a big game where he played well. If you wanna throw in Carolina this season as a choke, then you have to throw in a number of games towards the end of last season where he was clutch. I just don't think there's a big enough sample size to say he's a choker[/quote]

I guess it was a little harsh to consider a full on choke artist, but we only have 2 years to look at, and it's trending that way, but let me be clear I am on the side of signing him to a long term deal

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=mooby;1161872]I can't tolerate any website that will autoplay an annoying ass video at high volume, but when you search the page to turn that shit off you can't find the video.[/quote]

that site is just a general pain in the ass. They really don't give a shit about sports, but how many clicks they can garner. garbage writers too.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Off topic a little but since we're talking rating QBs and media- it irks me when some media people say stuff like I don't believe in clutch. It's hard to take anything else they say seriously.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1161887]Off topic a little but since we're talking rating QBs and media- it irks me when some media people say stuff like I don't believe in clutch. It's hard to take anything else they say seriously.[/quote]

Those people have never played sports in their life.

A 12 year old pitching in the final inning of a 3-2 little league tournament game, win or go home, understands the concept of clutch.