Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I'm still in full on trust Ron mode. Has he made any moves yet that seriously blew up in his face? Until he does I'm not going to question him too much.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Remember all the times in past years when we complimented a team when they got rid of a guy a year early as opposed to a year too late....here we are.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1284047]I'm still in full on trust Ron mode. Has he made any moves yet that seriously blew up in his face? Until he does I'm not going to question him too much.[/quote]

Same here.

I keep thinking about something JP and his podcast always refer to as "Ashburn syndrome." Our team has been so bad, we keep over valuing the good players that we've had. Moses had a good year last year, but before that, he was a penalty machine.

Also, with this new leadership, it seems that whenever they are trying to move on from a player, which seems puzzling at first to fans, there is always something that we may not know (Trent, Dunbar, Guice, etc. etc.).

Finally, this is something that good teams often do. They just don't keep players around, they are always looking to get better, get younger, and at a lesser price.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1284055]Same here.

I keep thinking about something JP and his podcast always refer to as "Ashburn syndrome." Our team has been so bad, we keep over valuing the good players that we've had. Moses had a good year last year, but before that, he was a penalty machine.

Also, with this new leadership, it seems that whenever they are trying to move on from a player, which seems puzzling at first to fans, there is always something that we may not know (Trent, Dunbar, Guice, etc. etc.).

Finally, this is something that good teams often do. They just don't keep players around, they are always looking to get better, get younger, and at a lesser price.[/quote]

People are also forgetting we have won absolutely nothing with Moses and Kerrigan while they were here.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I'd suggest the decision on the DL strongly depends on how Matty I comes back. If he's as good or better than when he went down, then we have something of a pleasant headache; 3 quality DT's and 1 that might be as good if we get to see him have more snaps. If I'm honest, if that happens I can well see us moving Matty on (increased injury risk) and extending Allen.

Then it's a decision whether we can afford to carry all 3. I see Settle as more of a direct sub for Payne (both have more of a NT build), so maybe lose one of them too. Could we get good value in a trade for Matty and Settle? Or trade Allen (better potential value) and keep the other 3? Same dilemma the year after with Payne's 5th option coming up?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1284057]I'd suggest the decision on the DL strongly depends on how Matty I comes back. If he's as good or better than when he went down, then we have something of a pleasant headache; 3 quality DT's and 1 that might be as good if we get to see him have more snaps. If I'm honest, if that happens I can well see us moving Matty on (increased injury risk) and extending Allen.

Then it's a decision whether we can afford to carry all 3. I see Settle as more of a direct sub for Payne (both have more of a NT build), so maybe lose one of them too. Could we get good value in a trade for Matty and Settle? Or trade Allen (better potential value) and keep the other 3? Same dilemma the year after with Payne's 5th option coming up?[/quote]

If remember right, last year was the first year where Matty missed games. Matty has been headache for Olines so I would prefer to keep him over Settle and maybe Payne. I'm just glad I'm not the coach, I would have a hard time deciding which ones to keep.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1284055]Same here.

I keep thinking about something JP and his podcast always refer to as "Ashburn syndrome." Our team has been so bad, we keep over valuing the good players that we've had. Moses had a good year last year, but before that, he was a penalty machine.

Also, with this new leadership, it seems that whenever they are trying to move on from a player, which seems puzzling at first to fans, there is always something that we may not know (Trent, Dunbar, Guice, etc. etc.).

Finally, this is something that good teams often do. They just don't keep players around, they are always looking to get better, get younger, and at a lesser price.[/quote]

Definitely some Ashburning going on with Moses. Good solid player, but he's 30 and seems to always be dinged up and playing through some sort of injury. Rather let him go a year early than a year too late.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=GridIron26;1284058]If remember right, last year was the first year where Matty missed games. Matty has been headache for Olines so I would prefer to keep him over Settle and maybe Payne. I'm just glad I'm not the coach, I would have a hard time deciding which ones to keep.[/quote]

Matty I coming off injury and needs to fit in the JDR dline rotation to determine his future with team this coming year. He’s a gamer and bigger influence than Settle…Payne IMO is great and he is stil ascending.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1284060]Matty I coming off injury and needs to fit in the JDR dline rotation to determine his future with team this coming year. He’s a gamer and bigger influence than Settle…Payne IMO is great and he is stil ascending.[/quote]

Will you and Anonymouse please stop doubting my boy Matty I. I predict he'll be healthy and resume his place as our best interior pass rusher. Here's my plan for the DT position: Keep Allen; Keep Payne; Keep Matty; Keep Settle. That is one bad-ass rotation.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1284061]Will you and Anonymouse please stop doubting my boy Matty I. I predict he'll be healthy and resume his place as our best interior pass rusher. Here's my plan for the DT position: Keep Allen; Keep Payne; Keep Matty; Keep Settle. That is one bad-ass rotation.[/quote]

Get it right, there's an E, no y ;)

I'm not doubting him in character and application, just his body needs to prove it's 100%. I actually do like him as he always gave 100% before. Just being realistic that he may not be back physically as good as before.

In any case, I'd love to retain the 4 of them, but there's no way we can afford it. We'd have 3 starter level DT's if Matty is 100% and Settle is knocking on the door. That means very soon, starter level money for all, and Allen will command good money once his rookie deal is done (as will Payne the year after). I don't see how we can afford to keep more than 3 of them, and logically that means one of the 3 starters will be gone.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

The @NFL just tweeted each team’s schedule difficulty based on W-L record from opponents last year. Which I know doesn’t necessarily mean it’s an accurate reflection for this upcoming season, but...

We were tied for 15th hardest schedule with an opponent win percentage of .504

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1284043]You make an excellent point. We fans tend to lose sight of the Big Picture. I do, anyway.[/quote]

The really good teams plan for attrition via FA and salary cap, obviously. Good to see us doing so for once. Under old days, we NEVER did this. NEVER. You can find a solid starting RT in the late 1st or 2nd round any year. LT much harder obviously.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

WFT just released Moses and Christian. I'm kinda surprised that we decided to not give Christian a chance to compete in the training camp, I'm not upset about it tho.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Too much competition to even bother with Christian. He was a bust.

Good luck to Moses, good solid player, shouldn't have a problem signing on with another team quickly.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Wow that escalated quickly. Agree that cutting Geron wasn't shocking.

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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1284106]Wow that escalated quickly. Agree that cutting Geron wasn't shocking.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

For me the only question was why wasn’t he cut the moment the season ended.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I wonder why we released Moses. Wasn’t a lot of time to explore a trade so we get nothing. I hope we announce some extensions (Allen) soon. Geez.


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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=calia;1284108]I wonder why we released Moses. Wasn’t a lot of time to explore a trade so we get nothing. I hope we announce some extensions (Allen) soon. Geez.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Let's all say hi to Aaron.

Lol. Just kidding

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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Leno - Flowers - Roullier- Schreff - Cosmi

Lucus, Schweitzer, Ismel, Charles, Sharpe

Not a bad Oline room

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Watch, it's all about a Scherff extension...and not a contract for J Allen.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1284112]Watch, it's all about a Scherff extension...and not a contract for J Allen.[/QUOTE]Oh I wouldn't be opposed to that ! That'd make the tag way more logical !
Allen's extension is more likely though.

Don't you think the timing with Moses is weird ? Like "go seek a trade... 1 ... 2 ...3 ... Too late you're cut !".
Wonder what kind of value we could've gotten back... But is it just because they need the cap now for something else (extension, new addition etc...) or is there something to know about Moses ? Like a story about to come, or some beef with Ron and co ?

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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Do they qualify for a compensatory pick if a player is cut?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

How long are you supposed to hang on to a player you announced to the world you were willing to trade, when immediately after you announced this, no one asked you about said player?

More than 3 days?

What does that do?

Better off moving on, and letting that player negotiate his own deal.

Bottom line ... No team was willing to give us a draft pick to pick up MM's contract. Whoever he winds up with won't be paying him the $7.5 million we were set to.


We got younger with this move, and we saved money. A pretty solid combination.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Pervis_Griffith;1284118]How long are you supposed to hang on to a player you announced to the world you were willing to trade, when immediately after you announced this, no one asked you about said player?
[B]
More than 3 days? [/B]

What does that do?

Better off moving on, and letting that player negotiate his own deal.

Bottom line ... No team was willing to give us a draft pick to pick up MM's contract. Whoever he winds up with won't be paying him the $7.5 million we were set to.


We got younger with this move, and we saved money. A pretty solid combination.[/quote]

I'd say if you think you can get some sort of value back, yeah you can wait more than 3 days, what's the urge ?
Not mad about it at all, just wondering if there's something we don't know, because I'm thinking we could've gotten something back (late round pick).

Cutting Moses Grade
 

Morgan Moses - RT - Cut - A

This isn't about hating on Moses the player. He is solid, probably top 10-20 in terms of RTs in league. We have a fortune tied up in interior OL, and for once, more players to resign in coming years than we can probably afford. Moses has been a human penalty machine at times, and has been blown up in pass coverage a fair amount, but none could dispute he is a good player.

Why the A grade then? Moses is no longer in his prime, is due $17M next two years, we are a young rebuilding team. Cutting Moses ultimately means prioritizing money for younger players and trusting to younger players, Cosmi or Charles. We no longer have so few good players that we have the luxury of nostalgically clinging to them all. This is a hard-nosed move, the kind the old Pats made, which ensures LONG TERM success. It is the type of move that good teams have to have the nuts to make. For once we have a FO with nuts. That doesn't mean there won't be a drop off or growing pains this year, but it was still the right move.

Cutting Christian Grade
 

G. Christian - T - A+++

Christian had every chance to step up and earn a starting role, but never did. He never developed as hoped. Time to cut losses.

Our Ts: Leno, Cosmi, Charles, Lucas. Sharpe 5th. We could debate whether Sharpe better than Christian, but other 4 are for sure.

One thing you hope is that Cosmi given chance to win LT position, not moved to RT immediate. We should groom our long-term LT at that position, move to RT only if he fails.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1284113]Oh I wouldn't be opposed to that ! That'd make the tag way more logical !
Allen's extension is more likely though.

Don't you think the timing with Moses is weird ? Like "go seek a trade... 1 ... 2 ...3 ... Too late you're cut !".
Wonder what kind of value we could've gotten back... But is it just because they need the cap now for something else (extension, new addition etc...) or is there something to know about Moses ? Like a story about to come, or some beef with Ron and co ?

Envoyé de mon SHV48 en utilisant Tapatalk[/quote]

This article contains a bit of speculation, but it actually does make sense.

[url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/5/20/22446551/an-attempt-to-dissect-the-morgan-moses-situation[/url]

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1284127]This article contains a bit of speculation, but it actually does make sense.



[url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/5/20/22446551/an-attempt-to-dissect-the-morgan-moses-situation[/url][/QUOTE]GREAT read thanks.

Good point about not needing to clear space in order to extend Allen as the move could actually save some 2021 cap.

If we're going the "another addition" route, KJ Wright and Kwon Alexander are still available, aren't they ?

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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I think it is a little odd that they cut Moses now if they don't need the money for signing someone. We have depth now but don't know what is going to happen between now and the end of camp in terms of injury, or if another team loses a tackle and is in desperate need before final cuts which would provide some trade interest. If they don't use the cap space that they have gained and one of those two things happens then they are going to look a little stupid.

They don't need cap space to extend Scherff or Allen, but there are a couple of others such as Logan Thomas who would be worth it

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

On the plus side we will have a butt load of cap space again next season

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1284129]I think it is a little odd that they cut Moses now if they don't need the money for signing someone. We have depth now but don't know what is going to happen between now and the end of camp in terms of injury, or if another team loses a tackle and is in desperate need before final cuts which would provide some trade interest. If they don't use the cap space that they have gained and one of those two things happens then they are going to look a little stupid.

They don't need cap space to extend Scherff or Allen, but there are a couple of others such as Logan Thomas who would be worth it[/quote]

Long term thinking.
Smart thinking.
Your perspective is very short term and tactical not strategic.
Stupid in today's NFL is not planning for cap long term.
Especially if they have to fork out $30M+ a year for a FA QB (a good one, not FitzAverage).
Save money where you can and use it more efficiently, even if just rolled over next year and used to extend guys or sign better FAs. Keep in mind, moves are about more than just this year or even next. We have some high-priced guys whose salaries are escalating in future years. If we don't want to be next year's dolphins, or the year after, moves like this smart.
Not at all sure I extend Thomas, versus drafting a TE first two rounds and starting him, or one of younger guys. He's a great story. Is he worth $10 a year? Or even $8M. While aging? Not sure.
Thomas could be next year's Moses.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Scalper;1284131]Long term thinking.
Smart thinking.
Your perspective is very short term and tactical not strategic.
Stupid in today's NFL is not planning for cap long term.
Especially if they have to fork out $30M+ a year for a FA QB (a good one, not FitzAverage).
Save money where you can and use it more efficiently, even if just rolled over next year and used to extend guys or sign better FAs. Keep in mind, moves are about more than just this year or even next. We have some high-priced guys whose salaries are escalating in future years. If we don't want to be next year's dolphins, or the year after, moves like this smart.
Not at all sure I extend Thomas, versus drafting a TE first two rounds and starting him, or one of younger guys. He's a great story. Is he worth $10 a year? Or even $8M. While aging? Not sure.
Thomas could be next year's Moses.[/quote]

I think you misunderstood my point somewhat. I am not advocating that he not be cut , just that, unless they need the money now for a signing, he is a resource they can keep on the roster until final cuts who may have value if they lose an OL during camp or preseason, or as a trade piece should another team lose a starting tackle before then.

I am all for forward thinking when it comes to managing the cap and keeping the young building blocks, and if they prefer the other options they have at OT then great save cap space when final cuts come. No need to cut him today, doesn't save you a bean compared to cutting him at final roster cuts ( unless he has some odd date in his contract where his salary is guaranteed).

Heard it speculated that he and Ron aren't on the same page which is maybe why Ron got rid of him so suddenly. Maybe the number of tackles coming in upset him, maybe he wanted a guarantee of starting (which would grind Rons gears) or maybe he wanted an extension which was not well received. Who knows

As for Logan Thomas' value, I did not state one. If the coaching staff love him then why not give him a couple more years until Bates and Reyes come though. But the value proposition is one for them to make

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=EdmundDorf;1284129]I think it is a little odd that they cut Moses now if they don't need the money for signing someone. We have depth now but don't know what is going to happen between now and the end of camp in terms of injury, or if another team loses a tackle and is in desperate need before final cuts which would provide some trade interest. If they don't use the cap space that they have gained and one of those two things happens then they are going to look a little stupid.



They don't need cap space to extend Scherff or Allen, but there are a couple of others such as Logan Thomas who would be worth it[/QUOTE]



Only thing I can think is Moses has been a good locker room guy, played almost every game and they are foregoing what they might get in a trade if such a circumstance happens like you pointed out to do him a favor and give him a time to move on now. Would go towards that culture of treating your players right?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Moses was out the moment we drafted Cosmi. A 2nd rounder isn't going to ride the bench all year.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1284135]Only thing I can think is Moses has been a good locker room guy, played almost every game and they are foregoing what they might get in a trade if such a circumstance happens like you pointed out to do him a favor and give him a time to move on now. Would go towards that culture of treating your players right?[/quote]

Didn't Moses say publicly that Trent Williams should leave the team and continue to hold out? I may be wrong, but I distinctly remember him publicly backing Trent.....which is kind of the opposite ofnhim being a good locker room guy.
I think in regards to the Moses release/trade or whatever is happeneing...we are, collectively, being near sighted. Aside from his 1 good year last year, he was not that good. His rookie year he didn't play, then he played poorly, and when the play was better he was (likely) the most penalized person on the roster.
Honestly, I'm not upset with seeing him go at all.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=OnceWeWereKings;1284144]Didn't Moses say publicly that Trent Williams should leave the team and continue to hold out? I may be wrong, but I distinctly remember him publicly backing Trent.....which is kind of the opposite ofnhim being a good locker room guy.
I think in regards to the Moses release/trade or whatever is happeneing...we are, collectively, being near sighted. Aside from his 1 good year last year, he was not that good. His rookie year he didn't play, then he played poorly, and when the play was better he was (likely) the most penalized person on the roster.
Honestly, I'm not upset with seeing him go at all.[/quote]

That does pretty much sum up his career here.

Bottom line, this is nothing to get your panties in a wad about...

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I don't think speaking out in support of Trent makes him a bad teammate, in fact it's probably the opposite if you ask guys in the locker room.

At the end of the day the guy is 30 years old and Ron obviously thinks they can get younger and cheaper at RT without a big drop-off in play.

WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1284143]Moses was out the moment we drafted Cosmi. A 2nd rounder isn't going to ride the bench all year.[/QUOTE]



Maybe but I was just addressing the comments by EdmundDorf about why they released him now instead of waiting to see if someone got desperate and offered a trade for him. I think it is a valid point. And yeah totally agree about ur take on him supporting a teammate.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1284153]Maybe but I was just addressing the comments about why they released him now instead of waiting to see if someone got desperate and offered a trade for him. And yeah totally agree about ur take on him supporting a teammate.[/quote]

I wasn't directing my comment towards you it was just a general thought

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1284154]I wasn't directing my comment towards you it was just a general thought[/QUOTE]



I know. Was just wondering what you thought about holding onto him for trade bait ....