Re: Obama Care
 

When do the death panels start like Fox News and Palin promised? That should make for good reality TV

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Chico23231;738285]When do the death panels start like Fox News and Palin promised? That should make for good reality TV[/quote]

They will come in some form or the other. I'm not totally against some sort of reform as to when to stop treatment because we do spend a ton of money on people who are going to die no matter what we do. The good news for me is that most people in my family live a good long life then just kind of keel over one day without much warning.

Re: Obama Care
 

[U][COLOR=#670100][URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/health/policy/01insure.html?_r=1&ref=business[/URL][/COLOR][/U]
[U][COLOR=#670100][/COLOR][/U]
[B]Insurer Cuts Health Plans as New Law Takes Hold[/B]

[B]By [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/reed_abelson/index.html?inline=nyt-per"][COLOR=#004276]REED ABELSON[/COLOR][/URL][/B]

[B]Published: September 30, 2010[/B]

"The [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/principal_financial_group/index.html?inline=nyt-org"][COLOR=#004276]Principal Financial Group[/COLOR][/URL] announced on Thursday that it planned to stop selling [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/health_insurance_and_managed_care/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier"][COLOR=#004276]health insurance[/COLOR][/URL], another sign of upheaval emerging among insurers as the new federal health law starts to take effect.
The company, based in Iowa, provides coverage to about 840,000 people who receive their insurance through an employer...."

Re: Obama Care
 

Looks like the free market working.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mlmpetert;743122][U][COLOR=#670100][URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/health/policy/01insure.html?_r=1&ref=business[/URL][/COLOR][/U]

[B]Insurer Cuts Health Plans as New Law Takes Hold[/B]

[B]By [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/reed_abelson/index.html?inline=nyt-per"][COLOR=#004276]REED ABELSON[/COLOR][/URL][/B]

[B]Published: September 30, 2010[/B]

"The [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/principal_financial_group/index.html?inline=nyt-org"][COLOR=#004276]Principal Financial Group[/COLOR][/URL] announced on Thursday that it planned to stop selling [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/health_insurance_and_managed_care/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier"][COLOR=#004276]health insurance[/COLOR][/URL], another sign of upheaval emerging among insurers as the new federal health law starts to take effect.
The company, based in Iowa, provides coverage to about 840,000 people who receive their insurance through an employer...."[/quote]

They insure 840,000 people which is not allot and they probably would have made this move at some point to concentrate their efforts on retirement saving and other products.

On another note I read today that the mad rush of people who have no health ins. because of health issues is not happening. I guess until its free to them most will just not get coverage.[URL="http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2010/August/19/high-risk-pools-health-insurance.aspx"]New Plans For Uninsured Off To Slow Start - Kaiser Health News[/URL]

Re: Obama Care
 

The stuff health insurance companies get away with is amazing. I'm not eligible for a group plan so I tried to upgrade my crappy insurance so I didn't have to pay $600 to have a specialist investigate a possible ear infection (seriously that was the price I was quoted at). Everything was all set up they were confirming my information and asking me questions. One of the questions was have you ever been turned down for health insurance. I told them yes so they went on to the next question asking about obesity, heart attacks, AID's all of which I answered no.

After the medical history question the lady told me I was ineligible for the plan. When I asked why she said because I had been turned down or coverage in the past, even though it was a different company. Why even go on to the next question if the one before it made me ineligible?

Last week while being fed up with my insurance I was referred to a high risk pool for Georgia. They told me I was ineligible because I had insurance and even if I didn't have insurance I would have had to be uninsured for 6 months (it's been about 3 months for me without good insurance). The part about having insurance is great because they don't even cover my pre-existing condition which I thought would have been the point of a high risk pool.

At the very least the pre-existing condition crap has to go, of course after that you have to make sure they don't go overboard with the premiums. Still one step at a time.

Re: Obama Care
 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]On a personal experience note i went to Atlantic City for the first time this weekend. If you ever wanted to convince someone that you shouldnt enable people to become reliant on free stuff take them to Atlantic City and show them all the people gambling away their Obama checks. Ive never seen so many people in wheel chairs all in one place before. It was the most amount of just generally flat out unhealthy people ive ever seen in my life. There are so many overweight/joint issues/lung issues/poor nourishment/old/disease ridden people that go to Atlantic City that renting Rascal Scooters is a legitimate business opportunity up there, you can even get one that holds your oxygen tank for you. A company is making money renting scooters to unhealthy people who use them to drive to casinos to gamble “their” money away. It was one of the saddest environments I have ever been in. The entire area is very economically depressed and yet the only businesses that seem to prosper are casinos, fortune tellers, tshirt shops, massage paroles, and scooter rental shops. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Rascal Rentals is the free market at work….. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Obama Care
 

These people have it worse then me:
Rape Deemed 'Pre-Existing' Condition

In 2002, Chris Turner, a health insurance agent from Tampa, Florida, was drugged and raped during a business trip. A few months later, when Turner was forced to buy new insurance on the individual market, she called a series of insurance underwriters and asked them about a hypothetical client who had been treated for rape. Every insurer she called had the same response: “Nope, we won’t take her.” Her rape, Turner said, had become a pre-existing condition, and she no longer qualified for coverage.

Domestic Violence Victims Denied Coverage

Last fall, Ryan Grim reported that domestic violence qualifies as a pre-existing condition in eight states and the District of Columbia.


Woman Dropped Over Condition She Might Have Had

Blue Cross agreed to insure Wittney Horton and accepted her premium payments -- until she got sick. After Horton sought treatment, Blue Cross opened an investigation into her medical records and found a note from one of her doctors suggesting that she might have polycystic ovaries. Based on the note, which Horton never knew about, Blue Cross rescinded her medical coverage.

Cancer Patient Dropped Because She Didn't Disclose Acne Treatments

Shortly before Robin Beaton was scheduled to undergo a double mastectomy in 2008, her insurance company revoked her policy. Beaton, a breast cancer patient, never disclosed that she'd previously seen a dermatologist for acne, a condition her insurer, Blue Cross, said qualified as a pre-existing condition. "The sad thing is, Blue Cross gladly took my high premiums, and the first time I filed a claim and was suspected of having cancer, they searched high and low for a reason to cancel me," Beaton told a House committee.

Dropped For Undisclosed 'Back Problem'

After Sally Marrari was diagnosed with a thyroid disorder, lupus and fluid in her heart, Blue Cross revoked her coverage on the grounds that she had an undisclosed "back problem." Marrari's treatment cost $25,000, and when she was later diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, her bills skyrocketed to more than $200,000.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;743285]The stuff health insurance companies get away with is amazing. I'm not eligible for a group plan so I tried to upgrade my crappy insurance so I didn't have to pay $600 to have a specialist investigate a possible ear infection (seriously that was the price I was quoted at). Everything was all set up they were confirming my information and asking me questions. One of the questions was have you ever been turned down for health insurance. I told them yes so they went on to the next question asking about obesity, heart attacks, AID's all of which I answered no.

After the medical history question the lady told me I was ineligible for the plan. When I asked why she said because I had been turned down or coverage in the past, even though it was a different company. Why even go on to the next question if the one before it made me ineligible?

Last week while being fed up with my insurance I was referred to a high risk pool for Georgia. They told me I was ineligible because I had insurance and even if I didn't have insurance I would have had to be uninsured for 6 months (it's been about 3 months for me without good insurance). The part about having insurance is great because they don't even cover my pre-existing condition which I thought would have been the point of a high risk pool.

At the very least the pre-existing condition crap has to go, of course after that you have to make sure they don't go overboard with the premiums. Still one step at a time.[/quote]

That sucks man. Maybe instead of worrying about Uncle Sam we should worry about shadowy villains such as [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIB_Group,_Inc."]Medical Information Bureau [/URL]which no one knows about.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=mlmpetert;743291][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]On a personal experience note i went to Atlantic City for the first time this weekend. If you ever wanted to convince someone that you shouldnt enable people to become reliant on free stuff take them to Atlantic City and show them all the people gambling away their Obama checks. Ive never seen so many people in wheel chairs all in one place before. It was the most amount of just generally flat out unhealthy people ive ever seen in my life. There are so many overweight/joint issues/lung issues/poor nourishment/old/disease ridden people that go to Atlantic City that renting Rascal Scooters is a legitimate business opportunity up there, you can even get one that holds your oxygen tank for you. A company is making money renting scooters to unhealthy people who use them to drive to casinos to gamble “their” money away. It was one of the saddest environments I have ever been in. The entire area is very economically depressed and yet the only businesses that seem to prosper are casinos, fortune tellers, tshirt shops, massage paroles, and scooter rental shops. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Rascal Rentals is the free market at work….. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[/FONT][/COLOR]
[/quote]

Typical crowd at most casinos it seems.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;743298]That sucks man. Maybe instead of worrying about Uncle Sam we should worry about shadowy villains such as [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIB_Group,_Inc."]Medical Information Bureau [/URL]which no one knows about.[/quote]

If people did not lie so much there would be no need for the MIB. Would you bank loan you $ before checking your credit? Same thing.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;564263]Damn, and i was thinking of enlisting the leprechauns to help us out. Seriously though, of course there are going to be abuses/corruption. That's life, just as there are no doubt inefficiencies in the private sector which contribute to the current ridiculous cost of health care. But to be as advanced as we are, and not to have something in place is inexcusable. [B]Our priorities are grossly skewed. We spend incredible amounts of money on far less important things, as I've previously pointed out.[/B] There are always going to be excuses to not do something of this nature, but at some point we as a country to realize the fundamental nature of healthcare and ensure every person in the country has access to it. I don't see that as imaginary, fairy tale stuff, i just see it as a shift in policy.[/quote]

I don't totally agree. Yeah we spend a lot of money dumb ass things...no our priorities aren't skewed as a whole. Our ability to elect people who govern according to priorities is non-existent. And at the end of the day everyone's priorities are different anyways. You see health-care as a fundamental right. A lot of people don't. As Schneed said the first thing that needs definition is what "health-care" means. Right now everyone quibbles about dozens of different facets of the issue. If we could actually define what quality health-care entails the discussion might be infinitely easier.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;743553]I don't totally agree. Yeah we spend a lot of money dumb ass things...no our priorities aren't skewed as a whole. Our ability to elect people who govern according to priorities is non-existent. And at the end of the day everyone's priorities are different anyways. You see health-care as a fundamental right. A lot of people don't. As Schneed said the first thing that needs definition is what "health-care" means. Right now everyone quibbles about dozens of different facets of the issue. [B]If we could actually define what [I]quality health-care [/I]entails the discussion might be infinitely easier[/B].[/quote]

Ding Ding Ding. The definition of "Quality Health Care" differs for everyone. I think it was you who earlier said that, when it comes to healthcare, everybody wants a Porsche but only wants to be for a Hyundai. I think that pretty much defines the problem.

Re: Obama Care
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;743553]I don't totally agree. Yeah we spend a lot of money dumb ass things...no our priorities aren't skewed as a whole. Our ability to elect people who govern according to priorities is non-existent. And at the end of the day everyone's priorities are different anyways. You see health-care as a fundamental right. A lot of people don't. As Schneed said the first thing that needs definition is what "health-care" means. Right now everyone quibbles about dozens of different facets of the issue. If we could actually define what quality health-care entails the discussion might be infinitely easier.[/QUOTE]



I don't think health care means something different to everyone. It means the exact same thing when it comes to the kind of health care we expect for ourselves and our loved ones. Simply put we all expect to be fixed up in a timely manner regardless of whether we have or don't have the monetary means to pay.

Now everyone may have a different view as to what the government should provide in a quality health care program. Whether it be the belief that the government shouldn't be in the business of health care, it should provide basic service such as checkups, or comprehensive health care program that includes things such as paying for cancer treatment.

I am all for doing what we can do...some may say we can't do health care in this country and to those I say why not? Why spend so much money building our armies while our people die because they don't have health care?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;743565]Ding Ding Ding. The definition of "Quality Health Care" differs for everyone. I think it was you who earlier said that, when it comes to healthcare, everybody wants a Porsche but only wants to be for a Hyundai. I think that pretty much defines the problem.[/quote]

People seem to forget "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these."

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;743792]I don't think health care means something different to everyone. It means the exact same thing when it comes to the kind of health care we expect for ourselves and our loved ones. Simply put we all expect to be fixed up in a timely manner regardless of whether we have or don't have the monetary means to pay.

Now everyone may have a different view as to what the government should provide in a quality health care program. Whether it be the belief that the government shouldn't be in the business of health care, it should provide basic service such as checkups, or comprehensive health care program that includes things such as paying for cancer treatment.

I am all for doing what we can do...some may say we can't do health care in this country and to those I say why not? [B]Why spend so much money build our armies while our people die because they don't have health care[/B]?[/quote]

Well why didn't your man Obama cut other programs to pay for his health care bill? Thats a small bill and is he willing to cut enough programs to pay for the health care he really wants? From what I've seen he is just another politician spending us into more dept and why force people into a health care system they don't want? I know its a system you guys want but you need us to pay fo it.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;743884]Well why didn't your man Obama cut other programs to pay for his health care bill? Thats a small bill and is he willing to cut enough programs to pay for the health care he really wants? From what I've seen he is just another politician spending us into more dept and why force people into a health care system they don't want? I know its a system you guys want but you need us to pay fo it.[/quote]


He did cut Medicare Advantage....the CBO said it would reduce the deficit when we compare it to proposals on the table by the GOP or if we stick to the status quo.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;743792]I don't think health care means something different to everyone. It means the exact same thing when it comes to the kind of health care we expect for ourselves and our loved ones. Simply put we all expect to be fixed up in a timely manner regardless of whether we have or don't have the monetary means to pay.

Now everyone may have a different view as to what the government should provide in a quality health care program. Whether it be the belief that the government shouldn't be in the business of health care, it should provide basic service such as checkups, or comprehensive health care program that includes things such as paying for cancer treatment.

I am all for doing what we can do...some may say we can't do health care in this country and to those I say why not? Why spend so much money building our armies while our people die because they don't have health care?[/quote]

My point is that before we continue the debate, in the greater sense, let's first define exactly what it is that gov't run health-care advocates want. At the very least it removes a giant variable that muddies the discussion.

Re: Obama Care
 

gov't run health care advocates want affordable health care coverage that is practical and reasonably priced.

practical = covers me for the basic emergency medical needs like a heart attack, I cut my finger off, get robbed and beaten in an alley and covers me for expected future medical needs like pregnancy.

I do not think things like dental or cosmetic or vision should be covered as most of these arent covered under a traditional private health coverage.

reasonably priced = not paying more than $150 at most a month for the above referenced services

the area of covering pre-exisiting disease, illness or injury is a tough one. if someone has high blood pressure the ins co many not cover you for a heart attack b/c they wil claim it was caused by a pre-existing high blood pressure.

right now, if you go into an ER as a homeless person with no soc number or drivers license you get treatment for free and the hospital chalks it up as a loss but if you work 2 jobs and dont have health insurance they slap you with a 12k bill for being in the hospital for 4 hours and sent home with tylenol. THIS HAS TO CHANGE.

hard working people who cant afford reasonable coverage are getting screwed. Not to repeat but my girl suffered an absolutely horrendous head trauma injury last year. We debated for days on whether to go to the hospital. after the 3rd day she was getting ready for work in the bathroom, i hear a loud crash upstairs, she had passed out. she said she was having equilibrium problems, headaches, etc so i said thats it were going to the hospital i dont care how much it costs we are not taking a chance with a brain injury and possible internal bleeding.

go to the hospital, decline a bunch of tests they wanted to do.

a week or so later get a bill for alil less than 2k. i think thats no so bad. 1 month later get a bill for over 10k. we havent paid anything on that bill. my girls credit is ruined and she couldnt put her name on the loan app for our new house.

if you have health ins you dont know the dilemna people without it are put in when they suffer a serious injury.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=over the mountain;743913]gov't run health care advocates want affordable health care coverage that is practical and reasonably priced.

practical = covers me for the basic emergency medical needs like a heart attack, I cut my finger off, get robbed and beaten in an alley and covers me for expected future medical needs like pregnancy.

I do not think things like dental or cosmetic or vision should be covered as most of these arent covered under a traditional private health coverage.

[B]reasonably priced = not paying more than $150 at most a month for the above referenced services[/B]

the area of covering pre-exisiting disease, illness or injury is a tough one. if someone has high blood pressure the ins co many not cover you for a heart attack b/c they wil claim it was caused by a pre-existing high blood pressure.

right now, if you go into an ER as a homeless person with no soc number or drivers license you get treatment for free and the hospital chalks it up as a loss but if you work 2 jobs and dont have health insurance they slap you with a 12k bill for being in the hospital for 4 hours and sent home with tylenol. THIS HAS TO CHANGE.

hard working people who cant afford reasonable coverage are getting screwed. Not to repeat but my girl suffered an absolutely horrendous head trauma injury last year. We debated for days on whether to go to the hospital. after the 3rd day she was getting ready for work in the bathroom, i hear a loud crash upstairs, she had passed out. she said she was having equilibrium problems, headaches, etc so i said thats it were going to the hospital i dont care how much it costs we are not taking a chance with a brain injury and possible internal bleeding.

go to the hospital, decline a bunch of tests they wanted to do.

a week or so later get a bill for alil less than 2k. i think thats no so bad. 1 month later get a bill for over 10k. we havent paid anything on that bill. my girls credit is ruined and she couldnt put her name on the loan app for our new house.

if you have health ins you dont know the dilemna people without it are put in when they suffer a serious injury.[/quote]

Not sure how old you are but why didn't she have health ins. too expensive, health issues, her age, etc ?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;743891]He did cut Medicare Advantage....the CBO said it would reduce the deficit when we compare it to proposals on the table by the GOP or if we stick to the status quo.[/quote]

Wow, now pay for the other trillion plus we will see from this plan. I'll go on record and say that their number will be 150% off. Thats if they can even get all these people who say they cannot get insurance to sign up for his great plan. So far there is no mad rush from the uninsured with health issues.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=over the mountain;743913]reasonably priced = not paying more than $150 at most a month for the above referenced services[/quote]

Here's one of my main gripes with a lot of people who want a gov't run system. The above bolded quote is at best ignorant and at worst totally absurd. You have no idea if $150 a month is reasonable within the system you want. The $150 is reasonable to YOU. You are offering $1800 a year to be covered for all things major that might cost 10s of thousands of dollars if you ever have to actually use your coverage. I obviously have no more idea than you about the costs but your offer seems way too low to me.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;743965]Not sure how old you are but why didn't she have health ins. too expensive, health issues, her age, etc ?[/quote]

Too expensive for a 30 year old bartender with college loan debts.

She has (well had) insurance for just under $100 a month (i think it was aobut 70/mo). she was covered for any medical bills she accumulated in that year over 10k. So, if she had this plan when she suffered her head trauma, she would only be on the hook for roughly 10 of the 12k! she called it the "if you die in a plane crash" coverage. :food-smil

Has anyone tried to apply for health insurance lately? it is EXPENSIVE AS HELL if your job doesnt offer some kind of help. I think she can get covered for about 260 a month, atleast that was the rates we were looking at about 6-8 months ago when I talked about it on here.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;743972]Wow, now pay for the other trillion plus we will see from this plan. I'll go on record and say that their number will be 150% off. Thats if they can even get all these people who say they cannot get insurance to sign up for his great plan. [B]So far there is no mad rush from the uninsured with health issues[/B].[/quote]

lol just tell us where to line up. i dont think any of these plans have been kicked into action yet. if and when it does, i will keep you all updated on the process, costs, etc.

we arent looking for a handout or free coverage, just something that non-rich people with school and hospital debts can afford while not having to move completely into the ghetto.

Re: Obama Care
 

I wish I knew the answer on how to fix the problem. The only thing I do know is that everything government does they say will cost one thing then it turn out costing triple and that the last thing we need.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=over the mountain;743992]Too expensive for a 30 year old bartender with college loan debts.

She has (well had) insurance for just under $100 a month (i think it was aobut 70/mo). she was covered for any medical bills she accumulated in that year over 10k. So, if she had this plan when she suffered her head trauma, she would only be on the hook for roughly 10 of the 12k! she called it the "if you die in a plane crash" coverage. :food-smil

Has anyone tried to apply for health insurance lately? it is EXPENSIVE AS HELL if your job doesnt offer some kind of help. I think she can get covered for about 260 a month, atleast that was the rates we were looking at about 6-8 months ago when I talked about it on here.[/quote]

Not sure but usually the employee plans are a percentage deal..so the 260 is maybe a 30% deal. So the coverage is actually costing $866 but the employer pays 70%.

Could be different though I'd bet it is a something like that.

This post also brings up a whole other issue. Why does your college educated GF not have a job commensurate with a college education (paying more and offering health-care)? Could it be that we've turned college degrees into what high-school degrees were 30 years ago? Back then if you had a college degree you had a good job if you wanted one.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=over the mountain;743995]lol just tell us where to line up. i dont think any of these plans have been kicked into action yet. if and when it does, i will keep you all updated on the process, costs, etc.

we arent looking for a handout or free coverage, just something that non-rich people with school and hospital debts can afford while not having to move completely into the ghetto.[/quote]


If she is 30 and does not smoke and in good health she can get a policy from $150 to $230. The Ded on most of the plans around $175 is $2500 or less. So there's what your looking for.

[URL]http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/ifp/quote[/URL]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;744004]Not sure but usually the employee plans are a percentage deal..so the 260 is maybe a 30% deal. So the coverage is actually costing $866 but the employer pays 70%.

Could be different though I'd bet it is a something like that.

This post also brings up a whole other issue. Why does your college educated GF not have a job commensurate with a college education (paying more and offering health-care)? Could it be that we've turned college degrees into what high-school degrees were 30 years ago? Back then if you had a college degree you had a good job if you wanted one.[/quote]

I dated a girl making around $1500 back around 1995 and even though she had a degree she liked the job. She has sense moved on but I don't knock anyone who is working.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;744004]Not sure but usually the employee plans are a percentage deal..so the 260 is maybe a 30% deal. So the coverage is actually costing $866 but the employer pays 70%.

Could be different though I'd bet it is a something like that.

This post also brings up a whole other issue. Why does your college educated GF not have a job commensurate with a college education (paying more and offering health-care)? Could it be that we've turned college degrees into what high-school degrees were 30 years ago? Back then if you had a college degree you had a good job if you wanted one.[/quote]

People with poor parents have to rely upon scholarships to go to college. she was the first one in her fmaily to go to college b/c she had a cheerleader scholarship which she lost after her first year of college. She never graduated college so in an attempt to make her family proud she really just set herself up to start out in the world with nothing more than a HS diploma and huge college loan debts who hound her at every turn. :food-smil

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;743989]Here's one of my main gripes with a lot of people who want a gov't run system. The above bolded quote is at best ignorant and at worst totally absurd. You have no idea if $150 a month is reasonable within the system you want. The $150 is reasonable to YOU. You are offering $1800 a year to be covered for all things major that might cost 10s of thousands of dollars if you ever have to actually use your coverage. I obviously have no more idea than you about the costs but your offer seems way too low to me.[/quote]

If its anything more than 150 bucks a month then she would just get a priv health care coverage. if people could afford 200 a month on health care there wouldnt be people walking around without it.

150 bucks a month to cover a person for emergency visits and preganancies is absurd? your absurd.

i pay close to alil over 200 a month and i am covered for every freakin lil thing but i am fortunate to be an attorney with a good employer plan.

not all people work in corporate america, some people are bartenders, taxi drivers, etc and these people cant afford what priv ins companies ask for.

next time she hurts herself well just leave our wallet at the house and go to the hospital bleeding and not have any identification and get free but albeit slow service. :food-smil

if 150 a mo for basic services is absurd, how much do you think people should pay for ins a mo under the new health care plan? the whole issue is lowering costs! it shouldnt cost thousands of dollars to take an MRI or 450 bucks for a med tech to take 3 mins in reding an MRI or xray.

and drs are racking up unneccesary treatments for people with health insurance to rack up the bills. see dr in balt city who was implanting 100s of unnecessary stents in peoples veins for money.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=over the mountain;744031]If its anything more than 150 bucks a month then she would just get a priv health care coverage. if people could afford 200 a month on health care there wouldnt be people walking around without it.

[B]150 bucks a month to cover a person for emergency visits and preganancies is absurd? your absurd.[/B]
i pay close to alil over 200 a month and i am covered for every freakin lil thing but i am fortunate to be an attorney with a good employer plan.

...

[B]if 150 a mo for basic services is absurd, how much do you think people should pay for ins a mo under the new health care plan? the whole issue is lowering costs! it shouldnt cost thousands of dollars to take an MRI or 450 bucks for a med tech to take 3 mins in reding an MRI or xray.[/B]
and drs are racking up unneccesary treatments for people with health insurance to rack up the bills. see dr in balt city who was implanting 100s of unnecessary stents in peoples veins for money.[/quote]

You include pregnancy as one of the basic services to be covered - you do realize that pregnancy is one of those really expensive services in part due to malpractice issues. What about truly major medical shock trauma issues - those helicopters ain't cheap? How much should it cost for "basic services"? Find an actuary, describe the services and the population that has to pay it and ask him. Otherwise your just blowing smoke. I mean, you do know how insurance works ... right??

I agree that costs are the issue. As for the specific costs you mention - again, where's your basis for assesing the accuracy. How much does the machine cost to purchase? to maintain? How much does it cost to train the techs? What's there salary? What are the liability issues? Seriously - does your firm do a cost analysis, market comparison in determining your hourly rate? Or do they do you just charge by the hour on what "feels" right?

On a larger scale - what is your plan for lowering medical costs? How do you intend to revamp the system. Sure the stent issue is obvious malpractice - now. A lot of these "unnecessary procedures", however, are litigation fodder when someone is injured and a test that might have alerted the doctor to a problem exists but was not used. So, just to be safe, test away. You can drive up costs for treatment (increased testing) or drive up doctor's (and therefor patient) costs for malpractice insurance (decreased testing). Take your pick.

As was discussed [I]ad nauseum[/I] earlier in this thread - the health care system is broken and needs to be completely revamped. That is just not going to happen now - we got our "reform". Count me as one of those who thinks it is just pumping more money into a fractured system and is only a very short-term, expensive band-aid.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=over the mountain;744031]If its anything more than 150 bucks a month then she would just get a priv health care coverage. if people could afford 200 a month on health care there wouldnt be people walking around without it.

150 bucks a month to cover a person for emergency visits and preganancies is absurd? your absurd.

i pay close to alil over 200 a month and i am covered for every freakin lil thing but i am fortunate to be an attorney with a good employer plan.

not all people work in corporate america, some people are bartenders, taxi drivers, etc and these people cant afford what priv ins companies ask for.

next time she hurts herself well just leave our wallet at the house and go to the hospital bleeding and not have any identification and get free but albeit slow service. :food-smil

if 150 a mo for basic services is absurd, how much do you think people should pay for ins a mo under the new health care plan? the whole issue is lowering costs! it shouldnt cost thousands of dollars to take an MRI or 450 bucks for a med tech to take 3 mins in reding an MRI or xray.

[B]and drs are racking up unneccesary treatments for people with health insurance to rack up the bills. see dr in balt city who was implanting 100s of unnecessary stents in peoples veins for money.[/quote][/B]

Most doctors are doing those extra test to avoid having an attorney sue them because the guy with a cough ended up keeling over because the doctor missed something. My buddy pays $109,000 for malpractice ins. and has never had a claim in his 25 yrs. I guess you missed the link I provided that shows rates for your 30 yr old girlfriend for under $200 a month. I'm guessing if she cannot afford a couple hundred a month for health coverage she must not have a cell phone, cable, or INTERNET access. Is that true?

Re: Obama Care
 

over the mountain

What Joe said.^^

The problem to me with our system is not really lack of access. Nobody in this country should have a lack of access. The problem is cost cost cost cost cost. On one hand it COSTS way too much for anybody except the very rich to pay for out of pocket. On the other it is a very specialized industry that is never going to be "cheap". Does it cost too much? Yeah. Will it ever get cheap enough that $150 a month for insurance is reasonable? I very highly doubt it. Obamacare or whatever we want to call it didn't do much at all to really fix the fundamental problem of cost. Fixing malpractice won't either. There are other reasons it cost so much. Some of them can be fixed and some can't.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=FRPLG;744067]over the mountain

What Joe said.^^

The problem to me with our system is not really lack of access. Nobody in this country should have a lack of access. The problem is cost cost cost cost cost. On one hand it COSTS way too much for anybody except the very rich to pay for out of pocket. On the other it is a very specialized industry that is never going to be "cheap". Does it cost too much? Yeah. Will it ever get cheap enough that $150 a month for insurance is reasonable? I very highly doubt it. Obamacare or whatever we want to call it didn't do much at all to really fix the fundamental problem of cost. [B]Fixing malpractice won't either[/B]. There are other reasons it cost so much. Some of them can be fixed and some can't.[/quote]

So you think my buddy who pays $109,000 for malpractice does not take that into his pricing when he does a surgury. I wonder how many he has to do just to pay that bill or how much is tacked on to each bill.

Re: Obama Care
 

Of course he does, but FRPLG's point (I think) is that it is not malpractice issues [I]alone[/I] that are the issue. I would go further that it's really impossible to fix malpractice issues without revamping the entire system.

Re: Obama Care
 

It can be affordable it's just that our system is structured for profit. It's a system that encourages having the latest gizmos at the hospital instead of being patient care centric. As long as health care is an essential services that is monopolized in this county it will continue to cost more.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;744101]It can be affordable it's just that our system is structured for profit. It's a system that encourages [B]having the latest gizmos at the hospital[/B] instead of being patient care centric. As long as health care is an essential services that is monopolized in this county it will continue to cost more.[/quote]

So your having a stroke do you want to go to the hospital with all the latest gizmo's or the one that has not up dated their equipment in 15 yrs so they can keep cost down?LOL

The only way to really save any money here on health care is to limit procedures and to have those death panels. Its the sad fact no one will talk about but we pump way to much money into keeping grand dad alive another month or so. Or treating an 85 yr old man for cancer who already is dying of heart conditions. At some point we need to pull the plug.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;744115]So your having a stroke do you want to go to the hospital with all the latest gizmo's or the one that has not up dated their equipment in 15 yrs so they can keep cost down?LOL

The only way to really save any money here on health care is to limit procedures and to have those death panels. Its the sad fact no one will talk about but we pump way to much money into keeping grand dad alive another month or so. Or treating an 85 yr old man for cancer who already is dying of heart conditions. At some point we need to pull the plug.[/quote]

I want to be like those countries whose people live longer and their health care cost is a lot less than ours not some old break away USSR country. I hope that makes sense.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;744115]So your having a stroke do you want to go to the hospital with all the latest gizmo's or the one that has not up dated their equipment in 15 yrs so they can keep cost down?LOL

The only way to really save any money here on health care is to limit procedures and to have those death panels. [B]Its the sad fact no one will talk about but we pump way to much money into keeping grand dad alive another month or so. Or treating an 85 yr old man for cancer who already is dying of heart conditions. At some point we need to pull the plug[/B].[/quote]

Sounds pretty simple when you say it, but the righteousness of it may prove somewhat more illusive....like abortion?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=saden1;744120]I want to be like those countries whose people live longer and their health care cost is a lot less than ours not some old break away USSR country. I hope that makes sense.[/quote]

Our issue with how long people live is more of a life style choices then health care. We are the fattest country in the world by 6% over the next country. You can have all the best medical services in the world but they cannot save people from them self. That stat there alone increases our cost and causes people to die younger. Its not as simple as you make it sound.

[URL="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity"]Obesity statistics - countries compared - NationMaster[/URL]