Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=mlmdub130;629352]ok i know cutler is/was a decent qb in denver, but wtf is the deal with (almost)EVERYONE thinking he is a great qb? granted he has put up some good numbers but wtf everyone makes excuses for this guy i don't get it, i just watched sports center and they claim that 3 of the int's in the san fran game were not his fault(he threw 5), i'm sorry i guess i really don't see what everyone else does, i see this guy as a mediocre qb and nothing more seriously wtf has he done to get so much praise

my thoughts on cutler from the cutler thread[/quote]

No kidding. Imagine if we gave up a couple of first rounders for this bum?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

UPDATED stats/assessment...all 3 QBs' teams lost, fair comparison!


Cutler:
WK 11 - [B]24/43 (55.8%)[/B], 171 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT, [B]63.2 rating[/B], 11 rush yds
TOTAL: 235/381 (61.7%), 2,524 yds, 15 TD, [B][SIZE=3]18 INT[/SIZE], 74.5 rating[/B], 122 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 11 - [SIZE=3][B]8/21 (38.1%)[/B][/SIZE], [B]136 yds[/B], 1 TD, [B][SIZE=3]4 INT, 37.1 rating[/SIZE][/B], 2 rush yds
TOTAL: 138/265 (52.1%), 1,791 yds, 10 TD, 16 INT, 61.1 rating, 62 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 11 - 24/37 (64.9%), 256 yds, 0 TD, 1 INT, 73.7 rating, 0 rush yds
TOTAL: [U]192/291 (66.0%)[/U], 2,126 yds, 10 TD, [U]9 INT[/U], [U]86.1 rating[/U], 158 rush yds


Ranks:
[B] Comp. % = Campbell (66.0%), Cutler (61.7%), Sanchez (52.1%)[/B]
Yds = Cutler (2,524) Campbell (2,216) Sanchez (1,791)
TDs = Cutler (15), Campbell/Sanchez (10)
[B] INTs (fewest) = Campbell (9), Sanchez (16), Cutler (18)[/B]
[B] QB rating = Campbell (86.1), Cutler (74.5), Sanchez (61.1)[/B]
[B] Rush yds = Campbell (158), Cutler (122), Sanchez(62)[/B]


Week 11 Campbell overview:
Campbell's offensive teammates continue to disappear to injury. First his offensive line, then Portis and Cooley, now Ladell Betts is gone with torn knee ligaments, just as soon as he began providing a huge spark to the slow offense in the previous 6 quarters. Now, the Redskins are using their kick returner and an unknown guy they just picked up again as their running game. However, despite the losses, Jason Campbell continues to be steady if not impressive considering the avalanche. One play that really impressed me in the game vs. Dallas was the spin move and escape from a sure sack, then finding Devin Thomas downfield for a 26-yard gain. Campbell spread the ball around well on Sunday, finding seven different receivers and finally getting Santana Moss involved with five catches. Jason could not manage any touchdowns and had one interception, but otherwise had a solid game, completing 64.9% of his passes (24/37) for 256 yards. His counterpart, Tony Romo only threw for 158 yards at a 55% rate, also with a pick.

Jay Cutler had another unimpressive, unproductive game. He threw for only 171 yards, despite attempting 43 passes! He barely completed half of his passes and added yet another interception to his total, now at 18, exactly double the number of picks thrown by Jason Campbell.

Mark Sanchez may be finding himself on the bench soon if he continues his horrid play. In Week 11, he was a shocking 8/21 passing, that's a 38% completion rate. Somehow he managed 136 yards and a TD, but threw FOUR INTERCEPTIONS. He's catching up to Jay Cutler for the NFL's interception lead, now with 16...second only to Cutler's 18 for the most INTs thrown this year.

Jason Campbell's QB rating of 86.1 remains at 16th best in the league, just behind Carson Palmer. Cutler is 24th and Sanchez is near the bottom for starting QBs, ranked 31st in the stat. JC is also catching up to Cutler in yardage with solid totals the last few weeks.

Yet another week that Campbell is the only of these three QBs who not only did not hurt his team badly by poor performance, but was actually the only one that put up respectable numbers.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I really wanted Cutler and Sanchez to have awful seasons (petty I know) because of the offseason drama. And I would be loving life, if we had the corresponding excellent season I had hoped for. Now it is just not as fun...

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;629545]I really wanted Cutler and Sanchez to have awful seasons (petty I know) because of the offseason drama. And I would be loving life, if we had the corresponding excellent season I had hoped for. Now it is just not as fun...[/quote]


2 outta 3 isn't bad. :D

I was also hoping for a huge breakout year from Campbell, but he just doesn't have a team around him OR coaches that will allow it. I am happy with what he has been able to do and think he's earned a return. He's clearly better than the possible replacements for him, even working with less talent and more chaos.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;629537]UPDATED stats/assessment...all 3 QBs' teams lost, fair comparison!



Campbell:
WK 11 - 24/37 (64.9%), 256 yds, [B]TD,[/B] 1 INT, 73.7 rating, 0 rush yds
TOTAL: [U]192/291 (66.0%)[/U], 2,126 yds, 10 TD, [U]9 INT[/U], [U]86.1 rating[/U], 158 rush yds



Jason Campbell's QB rating of 86.1 remains at 16th best in the league, [/quote]

maybe im reading this wrong but i didnt know we scored a TD this week. i have a feeling im missing something.

and 16th in the league sounds about right, w/out all the injuries on offense i could see him just outside the top 10 for qbs.

go skins!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I can't be mad at Campbell this week, he played pretty well against the cowboys.

Only if he can keep playing like this...

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=over the mountain;629595]maybe im reading this wrong but i didnt know we scored a TD this week. i have a feeling im missing something.

and 16th in the league sounds about right, w/out all the injuries on offense i could see him just outside the top 10 for qbs.

go skins![/quote]


Didn't put a number beside TD, but also forgot the '0'. I type over my template every week and just update the stats instead of re-typing the entire thing every week.

Simple typo, thanks for spotting it. ;)

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

UPDATED stats/assessment...Campbell made like a Detroit Lions broadcast and blacked out.


Cutler:
WK 12 - 18/23 (71.6%), 147 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT, 71.6 rating, 16 rush yds
TOTAL: 253/404 (62.6%), 2,671 yds, 16 TD, [B][SIZE=3]20 INT[/SIZE][/B],74.4 rating, 138 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 12 -[SIZE=2]13/17 (76.5%), 154 yds, 0 TD, 1[/SIZE][SIZE=2] INT, 79.0 rating, 27 rush yds[/SIZE]
TOTAL: 151/282 (53.5%), 1,945 yds, 10 TD, 17 INT, 62.1 rating, 89 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 12 - 22/37 (59.5%), 231 yds, 2 TD, 2 INT, 73.7 rating, 2 rush yds
TOTAL: 214/328 (65.2%), 2,357 yds, 12 TD, 11 INT, 84.6 rating, 160 rush yds


Ranks:
[B] Comp. % = Campbell (65.2%), Cutler (62.6%), Sanchez (53.5%)[/B]
Yds = Cutler (2,671) Campbell (2,357) Sanchez (1,945)
TDs = Cutler (16), Campbell (12), Sanchez (10)
[B] INTs (fewest) = Campbell (11), Sanchez (17), Cutler (20)[/B]
[B] QB rating = Campbell (84.6), Cutler (74.4), Sanchez (62.1)[/B]
[B] Rush yds = Campbell (160), Cutler (138), Sanchez(89)[/B]


Week 12 Campbell overview:
A very up-and-down game for Campbell. He accounted for 3 TDs. One on the ground and two through the air to Fred Davis and Santana Moss. He easily outpassed the other two QBs in the total column, but Cutler and Sanchez both had rare efficient days in terms of completion percentage and QB rating, although they both had more INTs than TDs and very low yardage totals. JC had the opposite kind of game, more TDs than TOs and more yards despite his accuracy being somewhat off this game. Typically, he's the most accurate passer of the three and doesn't throw INTs in bunches. This is only the second game with more than one INT for Campbell. He had only two multiple-INT games last season. One area of great improvement for Jason has been his ability to hold onto the ball as the season has progressed, despite his line breaking down even further every week. Jason has not fumbled the ball since Week 7 now. Last season, he only lost one fumble. Three early in this season but that seems to have been corrected. One of the major knocks against Jason early in his career was his proneness to fumbles, with 8 lost in the 2007 season. With the lack of protection he's still receiving, it's a miracle he has only three fumbles this season (at least one was Rabach's fault) and somehow has managed to not put the ball on the ground in the last 4 games.

Campbell was most impressive on the TD drive where he had back-to-back completions of 29 yards to Davis and 35 yards to Thomas before throwing a TD pass to Fred to finish off a quick 80-yard drive that had three conversions on 3rd-and-long.

In 4 of the last 5 games (Dallas game aside), the offense has been scoring and producing under Campbell. His last 5 game totals are 284, 196, 193, 256 and 231 yards each.

Without the two INTs thrown to Asante Samuel yesterday, there would be very little to criticize with yesterday's game.

Let's hope Jason's health is OK going forward after "blacking out" from that final hit taken against Philly. We will need his arm against New Orleans to have any hope of an upset. With the #1-ranked passing defense, we have a chance to make the game interesting if the offense can continue to score like they have begun to do lately. With Todd Collins behind center, any downfield game is gone and the passing game will not intimidate any defense, especially one coached by Gregg Williams.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

You have to take those two interceptions into account though. Those were poor throws and worse decisions by Campbell

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;632481]You have to take those two interceptions into account though. Those were poor throws and worse decisions by Campbell[/quote]

I did, hence the "up-and-down day" description for the game. Fact is though, he was the only of the three QBs who contributed more TDs then turnovers, so out of these QBs, he had the best day...even if not a completely stellar day. For the season, he's far less prone to the picks than Cutler and Sanchez, who are at the tops in the NFL in INTs thrown.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY0m0hVXOxE]YouTube - John Riggins on Jason Campbell & Eagles[/url]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Mattyk72;632643][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY0m0hVXOxE]YouTube - John Riggins on Jason Campbell & Eagles[/url][/quote]

yeah he says the same thing everyone else has said and we will just have to wait and see. i hope he stays here, because we won't have a better option next year unless colt tears s up inpresaeson against number 1's

for me i'll say it again, middle of the pack qb, nothing special, but by far not the worst in the nfl

as far as riggo, i love the guy, but he is losing it, now he even has to edit himself, there was atleast two cutaways there maybe three, he just seems to ramble on

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I can't wait for the latest updates on this thread after this game.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[SIZE=2]UPDATED stats/assessment...Campbell is on fire.

Cutler:
WK 13 - 8/17 (47.1%), 143 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT, 96.0 rating, -2 rush yds
TOTAL: 261/421 (62.0%), 2,814 yds, 17 TD, [/SIZE][SIZE=2]20 INT, 75.3 rating, 136 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 13 - [/SIZE][SIZE=2]7/15 (46.7%), 104 yds, 1 TD, 0[/SIZE][SIZE=2] INT, 92.1 rating, 8 rush yds
TOTAL: 158/297 (53.2%), 2,049 yds, 11 TD, 17 INT, 63.7 rating, 97 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 13 - 30/42 (71.4%), 367 yds, 3 TD, 1 INT, 111.9 rating, -1 rush yds
TOTAL: 244/370 (65.9%), 2,724 yds, 15 TD, 12 INT, 87.7 rating, 159 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = [B]Campbell (65.9%)[/B], Cutler (62.0%), Sanchez (53.2%)
Yds = Cutler ([B]2,814[/B]) Campbell ([B]2,724[/B]) Sanchez (2,049)
TDs = Cutler ([B]17[/B]), Campbell ([B]15[/B]), Sanchez (11)
INTs (fewest) = [B]Campbell (12)[/B], Sanchez (17), Cutler ([B]20[/B])
QB rating = [B]Campbell (87.7)[/B], Cutler (75.3), Sanchez (63.7)
Rush yds = [B]Campbell (159)[/B], Cutler (136), Sanchez(97)


Week 13 Campbell overview:

Jason Campbell is officially on a hot streak. He's posting passing numbers that the Redskins have not enjoyed since Mark Brunell went on a rare productive streak in 2005's Weeks 5-7 and probably not since Mark Rypien before then. He's caught up to Cutler in yards and TDs and is on pace to easily surpass Jay before season's end in those two remaining categories that Campbell's not leading the other two QBs in. He's spreading the ball around nearly as well as Drew Brees lately. Don't believe me? Campbell hit 9 different receivers on Sunday vs. the Saints. Brees completed passes to 7. He had 9 productive receivers last week against the Eagles and 7 against Dallas two weeks ago also. Am I honestly comparing Campbell to Brees? Of course not, that would be ridiculous because Brees is one of the 3 top QBs in the league and is clearly in another class...but Jason is spreading the ball around and moving the offense effectively, not merely efficiently as we had previously just hoped for.

Campbell's last three games went for 256, 231 and 367 yard (vs Saints). Cutler, on the other hand now has posted 3 weeks in a row with under 175 yards passing while Sanchez has 3 weeks in a row 154 yards and under. Cutler and Sanchez have had absolutely anemic performances lately, with low yardage, inaccuracy and 3 TDs/8 INTs for Cutler and 3 TD/7 INTs for Sanchez in the last month. Meanwhile in the same period, Campbell has as many TD passes as both QBs combined (6, plus an additional TD rushing) and only 4 INTs in the previous 4 games. It's very obvious that Jason Campbell was the right choice of the three QBs for the Redskins this season and I'm hoping...beyond. Despite the team's turmoil, possibly losing Mike Sellers now...Jason continues to improve his game and keep the team competitive...which is all we can really ask in a lost season like we're experiencing.

Jason may be winning himself a job in the future for the Redskins and based on what we're seeing him develop into, I'm happy if he's our starter next season with hopefully a revamped coaching/management staff and bolstered offensive line. He's proving to be a true leader. We honestly should have won the New Orleans game and Jason would have been the number one reason if we had. We're all praising Devin Thomas and Fred Davis for showing up and producing big lately, yet do we remember that their successes are directly attributed to the quarterback getting the ball in their hands? Last week, I praised Jason's impressive fade route completion to Malcolm Kelly in another thread and was attacked with the line "it's a fluke, he can't hit that throw!" Well, I saw the same kind of completion to Devin Thomas yesterday and he also continued to hit deep throws to a variety of targets. Jason is the real deal. It's time to recognize that he has grown into a capable NFL starter. Many other top rookie QBs took 3+ years to really start shining as well. With all of the change in schemes, coaching and injuries to personnel around Jason, I think he's progressed on a fair time table. Far too many of us expected him to turn into a star overnight and we unfairly gave up on him too quickly. Maybe we've been spoiled by the first-year successes of Flacco and Ryan, but immediate success by a rookie QB is not the norm, it's the rare exception. Instant gratification has caused us to lose patience and forced us to give up on some people too early. Devin Thomas may also be proving that even 1st and 2nd-round draft picks can take some time to develop, but the wait can be worth it. The Redskins' QB position has been an inconsistent revolving door of mediocrity since Mark Rypien left. Even Rypien was our leader for far too short of a time period, so it could be said that Joe Theisman was our last star, consistent QB. Our franchise needs to stop giving up on QBs and let one actually develop properly, and it appears that's exactly what Jason Campbell is doing. He has the upside to be a Pro Bowl caliber, top 10 NFL QB is we give him both the tools and just the chance to succeed into that player.

I fully expect him to torch the Oakland Raiders as well next game.
[/SIZE]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

JC really showed something yesterday.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

dangit i should have asked before you started doing this buster, but id be interested in seeing the y/pa stat. imo thats a very important stat if we are comparing stats. last year JC had a pretty good y/pa if i remember correctly and, atleast with this last game, he might actually be on pace to increase his y/pa from last year.

go skins!!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Mattyk72;636027]JC really showed something yesterday.[/quote]

That he did. So impressive. We were all worried about Gregg Williams' D...myself included...and Jason embarrassed them.

He's on a great run the last 3 weeks against 3 very tough opponents.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I have also been impress with JC's play the past couple of weeks. I wonder if his improvement is because does not have alot of preasure on him with us out of the playoffs and is just going out and playing?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

buster, good stuff. im not sure where i stand on Campbell? while i don't think he is the problem, im not sure if he is the answer, either

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=over the mountain;636028]dangit i should have asked before you started doing this buster, but id be interested in seeing the y/pa stat. imo thats a very important stat if we are comparing stats. last year JC had a pretty good y/pa if i remember correctly and, atleast with this last game, he might actually be on pace to increase his y/pa from last year.

go skins!![/quote]

7.36 Campbell
6.90 Sanchez
6.68 Cutler


For comparison's sake:
9.02 Brees
8.55 Roethlisberger
8.25 Rodgers
8.01 P. Manning
7.95 Matt Schaub
7.94 Brady
7.86 Rivers
7.83 McNabb
7.81 Favre
7.72 E. Manning
[B] 7.08 Romo :laughing2
[/B]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=firstdown;636032]I have also been impress with JC's play the past couple of weeks. [B]I wonder if his improvement is because does not have alot of preasure on him with us out of the playoffs and is just going out and playing?[/B][/quote]

Maybe. He's also getting more help from his receivers. That's not to take anything away from JC, though. He's been quite impressive. He seems to have a better pocket presence.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=firstdown;636032]I have also been impress with JC's play the past couple of weeks. I wonder if his improvement is because does not have alot of preasure on him with us out of the playoffs and is just going out and playing?[/quote]

No pressure about playoffs is correct, but he's in a contract year and playing for his career's next step. With all of the detractors he's had, not only on here but everywhere I see...he has PLENTY of pressure on his shoulders. Speaking of pressure, he's been hit a LOT lately with the holes in the offensive line. They've played somewhat better recently but he's still taking some huge shots by defenders.

I believe I'm right about letting a QB develop before giving up on them. Look at Vince Young, he was FAR worse than JC ever was and now could be their future as they had hoped it would be...there are always bumps in the road for a QB to become a franchise QB, even for Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, who was completely replaced when with San Diego. I bet they really regret that move. Rivers is great, but Brees is better.

I am just glad that we didn't get Sanchez or even Cutler and have to start this whole process and learning curve all over again, waiting another 3 years or so for solid production from a young QB. Hopefully he's earned his place in the team's immediate, if not long-term future.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Lotus;636041]Maybe. He's also getting more help from his receivers. That's not to take anything away from JC, though. He's been quite impressive. He seems to have a better pocket presence.[/quote]

He definitely seem to have better pocket presence, although this is also helped by the offense linemen.. If I remember right, Campbell has been sacked only two times in last three games.. So is it really ironically that Campbell, in general, has been playing better in last three games, as well?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;636042]No pressure about playoffs is correct, but he's in a contract year and playing for his career's next step. With all of the detractors he's had, not only on here but everywhere I see...he has PLENTY of pressure on his shoulders. Speaking of pressure, he's been hit a LOT lately with the holes in the offensive line. They've played somewhat better recently but he's still taking some huge shots by defenders.

[B]I believe I'm right about letting a QB develop before giving up on them.[/B] Look at Vince Young, he was FAR worse than JC ever was and now could be their future as they had hoped it would be...there are always bumps in the road for a QB to become a franchise QB, even for Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, who was completely replaced when with San Diego. I bet they really regret that move. Rivers is great, but Brees is better.

I am just glad that we didn't get Sanchez or even Cutler and have to start this whole process and learning curve all over again, waiting another 3 years or so for solid production from a young QB. Hopefully he's earned his place in the team's immediate, if not long-term future.[/quote]

Which is why it's kind of odd to point out Sanchez' struggles in his rookie season in my opinion. I mean I know what you're trying to do, but still

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Living in San Diego now but still follow the Redskins even out here (once a Skins fan, always a Skins fan).

Wow, what a mess of a season! Offense just never seems in synch... can't believe they didn't add any offense impact players in the offseason.

On Campbell -- he may be successful on another team, but for a variety of factors it'll never happen with the Redskins. Too many negative intangibles, and not a lot of passion for the game. Time for both sides to move on.

It seems every team has a terrible season in the waiting, but if the Skins drafted better - or even had a GM - they wouldn't be in the mess they're in. Can't they find a GM out here somewhere?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GridIron26;636045]He definitely seem to have better pocket presence, although this is also helped by the offense linemen.. If I remember right, Campbell has been sacked only two times in last three games.. So is it really ironically that Campbell, in general, has been playing better in last three games, as well?[/quote]

He wasn't sacked very much the first 4 games either. I take issue with people, like Theismann, who claim Campbell has been running for his life since game 1 and couldn't dare be expected to perform at a high level.

Until Samuels went down, Campbell had plenty of time to throw. Especially against pathetic Defenses like the Chiefs, Lions and at the time, the Panthers.

I admit, he has looked great (not just good). But I would credit Sherm and Campbell for the improved play. The very first game Sherm was calling games, we saw JC in shotgun and 3-4 wide receiver formations from within the 10 yard line. And against the Saints, the Skins had one drive where they didn't run the ball once. They went 78 yards in 7 plays, ALL PASSES. There was an immediate and noticeable difference when Sherm took over.

That said, I can only conclude that Zorn was doing a poor job of play calling and maximizing his players potential. Not playing the rooks last year was also stupid. They can obviously play. Once they were out of the playoff hunt last year, Zorn should have given the young guys a heavy dose of playing time.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

JC played very well until the game was really on the line. He had some outstanding stick throws yesterday. But again he had a chance to drive us down the field and win the game. Brees delivered, JC didn't. Until he does he's just going to be a middle of the pack QB. He needs to be able to take over when we need him the most. So far he hasn't done it.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;636050]Which is why it's kind of odd to point out Sanchez' struggles in his rookie season in my opinion. I mean I know what you're trying to do, but still[/quote]

Simple and valid explanation...we're comparing the 3 QBs we could have had and how they are performing this season. If we had Sanchez or Cutler, we would be suffering through their insane number of INTs and lack of accuracy right now instead of the Jets or Bears.

Could Sanchez develop into a capable QB later in his career? I don't think he will, but it IS possible. However, Jason is performing the best this season (what we're comparing here) and I believe in the long run will also be the best of the three. Cutler just seems to have some kind of mental block that doesn't allow him to throw to his own team...not quite as bad as Ryan Leaf...but pretty bad!

What do you expect me to do? Take Cutler's numbers this year and then wait 3 years and compare Sanchez' numbers in 2012 to Campbell's 2009 to see if we made the right choice? It could be the fair way to compare apples to apples, but that also proves the point that if we had dumped Campbell for Sanchez, we could have been setting the team's future back another 3+ years. I believed Jason was the best option both short- and long-term for the team and he's proving me correct. This is why I started tracking the 3 possible QBs in the first place, it was a hot debate where people here were in the camps of all three QBs. Earlier in the season, the Campbell detractors maintained a "I told you so, we should have gotten _______!" Being a stats nerd, I wanted to track all three QBs over the season to see if we ended up with the best of the three and if I was right about JC, to have the solid facts to back up my choice. Also, during the team's struggles, I wanted the blame to be on Jason if he was truly playing horribly, but also wanted people to be able to see that he may not be the problem and reason for the team's losses if he was in fact playing well. It's easy to blame quarterbacks for team's losses, but it's NOT always their fault. I knew if we were winning or losing, the Jason Campbell detractors would be hesitant with crediting him but would go out of their way to place all of the blame on him, without even looking at the stats and facts.

He's one of the few bright spots in this disastrous season and he should be around to enjoy the future success of the team (can't sink any lower than this year, right?)

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfan69;636087]JC played very well until the game was really on the line. He had some outstanding stick throws yesterday. But again he had a chance to drive us down the field and win the game. Brees delivered, JC didn't. Until he does he's just going to be a middle of the pack QB. He needs to be able to take over when we need him the most. So far he hasn't done it.[/quote]

To be fair, that game WAS won by us in regulation. Even without Suisham's choke, the refs completely stole the victory from us. Tough to blame Campbell or anyone on the team aside from Suisham for the loss...our team DID win the game in reality, but apparently the league wanted the Saints to remain undefeated.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;636094]To be fair, that game [b]WAS won by us in regulation.[/b] Even without Suisham's choke, [b]the refs completely stole the victory from us.[/b] Tough to blame Campbell or anyone on the team aside from Suisham for the loss...our team DID win the game in reality, but apparently the league wanted the Saints to remain undefeated.[/quote]

I must have missed that game.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;636094]To be fair, that game WAS won by us in regulation. Even without Suisham's choke, the refs completely stole the victory from us. Tough to blame Campbell or anyone on the team aside from Suisham for the loss...our team DID win the game in reality, but apparently the league wanted the Saints to remain undefeated.[/quote]

I'm not blaming the refs. Nor am I blaming JC. He played very well against a beat up secondary. He should've played well yesterday!!! All I'm saying is when the game really needs to be won he needs to take over. On that last drive he needed to take us down the field and win the game. Instead he threw a horrible INT. But let's not blame the refs. We all know they're terrible and most of the time it evens out.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfan69;636087]JC played very well until the game was really on the line. He had some outstanding stick throws yesterday. But again he had a chance to drive us down the field and win the game. Brees delivered, JC didn't. [B]Until he does he's just going to be a middle of the pack QB. [/B]He needs to be able to take over when we need him the most. So far he hasn't done it.[/quote]

Yeah, that's the way I'm looking at it too. Campbell is the kind of QB who will have a great game every once in awhile. But he won't do it consistently, week after week.

That said, there's still a part of me that wants him to come back, (due mainly to the fact that the free agent QBs on the market next year all suck) and see if one more season of putting the pieces in place around him can propel him to the next level. Maybe we've got some of those pieces coming together with Thomas, Davis and Kelly.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;636092]Simple and valid explanation...we're comparing the 3 QBs we could have had and how they are performing this season. If we had Sanchez or Cutler, we would be suffering through their insane number of INTs and lack of accuracy right now instead of the Jets or Bears.

Could Sanchez develop into a capable QB later in his career? I don't think he will, but it IS possible. However, Jason is performing the best this season (what we're comparing here) and I believe in the long run will also be the best of the three. Cutler just seems to have some kind of mental block that doesn't allow him to throw to his own team...not quite as bad as Ryan Leaf...but pretty bad!

What do you expect me to do? Take Cutler's numbers this year and then wait 3 years and compare Sanchez' numbers in 2012 to Campbell's 2009 to see if we made the right choice? It could be the fair way to compare apples to apples, but that also proves the point that if we had dumped Campbell for Sanchez, we could have been setting the team's future back another 3+ years. I believed Jason was the best option both short- and long-term for the team and he's proving me correct. This is why I started tracking the 3 possible QBs in the first place, it was a hot debate where people here were in the camps of all three QBs. Earlier in the season, the Campbell detractors maintained a "I told you so, we should have gotten _______!" Being a stats nerd, I wanted to track all three QBs over the season to see if we ended up with the best of the three and if I was right about JC, to have the solid facts to back up my choice. Also, during the team's struggles, I wanted the blame to be on Jason if he was truly playing horribly, but also wanted people to be able to see that he may not be the problem and reason for the team's losses if he was in fact playing well. It's easy to blame quarterbacks for team's losses, but it's NOT always their fault. I knew if we were winning or losing, the Jason Campbell detractors would be hesitant with crediting him but would go out of their way to place all of the blame on him, without even looking at the stats and facts.

[B]He's one of the few bright spots in this disastrous season[/B] and he should be around to enjoy the future success of the team (can't sink any lower than this year, right?)[/quote]

Are you seriously calling his season a "bright spot?" I wouldn't call it that. He's been an average NFL QB. We need him to be better than average. As I said in my last post we need him to be able to win games for us. So far he hasn't been able to do it.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfan69;636147]Are you seriously calling his season a "bright spot?" I wouldn't call it that. He's been an average NFL QB. We need him to be better than average. As I said in my last post we need him to be able to win games for us. So far he hasn't been able to do it.[/quote]

As one of Campbell's strongest critics on the site tell me, has Campbell fallen below, met or exceeded your preseason expectations of him?

An argument can be made that all any one player can do is put his team in position to win games, no one player can do it alone. He did that in each of the last 3 games, would you not agree?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfan69;636147]Are you seriously calling his season a "bright spot?" I wouldn't call it that. He's been an average NFL QB. We need him to be better than average. As I said in my last post we need him to be able to win games for us. So far he hasn't been able to do it.[/quote]

Since Sherman Lewis took over the play calling he has been a very good NFL quarterback. Where Buster errs is in the fact that he thought he was a very good NFL quarterback even before that change. That was not the case. Even against Detroit, when he put up big numbers, he played poorly in the second half, held the ball too long, and did not make stick throws. Given the dramatic difference in his play since the change in play caller, I'm thinking that Zorn played a bigger role in that than I had thought. If you wanted to be positive about the thing, you could say that part of his development in the previous weeks might be due to the fact that Zorn can now devote more attention to coaching the quarterbacks both in-game and during the week.

The "he needs to win games despite any other factors" metric that you have set up is useless (as is the straight statistical analysis quite frankly). Look at the film, evaluate the performance, look at the speed of decision making, the willingness to make throws into tight windows, accuracy, footwork and ball speed. Campbell has been very good in all areas, especially the last three weeks. He is playing at a high level right now and the reason the team has lost is not attributable to him. I can see how you could look at the INT late and say, "same old story," but really what you are saying right now is anything short of perfection is not good enough. You want a superhuman performance, rather than simply looking at an individual who is performing at a very high - if perhaps not quite elite - level.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Chris Meidt should be credited then, because Campbell has referred to him as his QB coach and the guy who has worked most closely with him.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Because I like how Campbell has developed, and how he handled the off-season garbage, I really wanted him to excel this year. I think he shows a lot in the games. BUT, then he goes and throws an INT when we need a drive, not only to win, but maybe give Suisham a chance to redeem himself. That is the frustrating thing. Is it Campbell's fault we lost, not in the least. But did he step up to the plate in the last 2 minutes, game on the line time? No, he did not. I wish he had.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfan69;636144]I'm not blaming the refs. Nor am I blaming JC. He played very well against a beat up secondary. He should've played well yesterday!!! All I'm saying is when the game really needs to be won he needs to take over. On that last drive he needed to take us down the field and win the game. Instead he threw a horrible INT. But let's not blame the refs.[B] We all know they're terrible and most of the time it evens out.[/B][/quote]

Actually it seems that is DOESN'T even out for us...we are constantly getting hosed.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;636138]I must have missed that game.[/quote]

Lucky you, it would've taken some time off the end of your life.

Read over the gameday thread if you don't believe me.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;636138]I must have missed that game.[/quote]

You and me both