Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;953858]BS Sammy and shame on you for even going there!This is a man who you want as President yet he knew ...as you admit to nothing of the intel or any facts the President had yet he'll open his mouth and speak on a subject with out even knowing if the families of the victims have even been notified yet,BS![/quote]

I'll agree with you Romney spoke too soon and was trying to score political points. Sad part is now that we know the facts he was correct but that still does not make what he said at that time OK.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;953865]Lightening up the mood a bit. But in the spirit of taking sides and saying who won ill give a slight edge to Mitt.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsSzkCgcBtU&feature=plcp"]Mitt Romney Jokes at The Al Smith dinner - 2012 (Full Monologue) - YouTube[/URL]


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJKOxWThBXU"]Obama Roasts Himself, Jabs At Romney And Even Elbows Chris Matthews During Al Smith Dinner - YouTube[/URL][/quote]


They should have a total debate of throwing jokes at each other.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;953890]I'll agree with you Romney spoke too soon and was trying to score political points. Sad part is now that we know the facts he was correct but that still does not make what he said at that time OK.[/quote]

How was he correct? He wasn't. No one was. In fact, we're still receiving information from intelligence on the ground almost a month later.

Acts of terror..terrorists act? Are you people kidding? You think this is a winning message? You think there was some secret cover-up? Right. Just like Solyndra and Fast and Furious. Keep it up Republicans.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

In other news, I love debunking the talking point the Obamacare adds to the deficit.

[url=http://www.bankrate.com/financing/insurance/cbo-obamacare-cuts-deficit/]CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;953912]How was he correct? He wasn't. No one was. In fact, we're still receiving information from intelligence on the ground almost a month later.

Acts of terror..terrorists act? Are you people kidding? You think this is a winning message? You think there was some secret cover-up? Right. Just like Solyndra and Fast and Furious. Keep it up Republicans.[/quote]

Well its your man one day saying its a terrorist attack and then the following that up by saying it was an uncontrolled mob over a movie. Its also his administration who denied extra security. Plenty of evidences shows they knew it was a terrorist attack but for some reason (I'd say because they denied more security) they said it was a mob.

Funny you even bring up Fast and Furious. So why is the president not providing the documents requested by cobgress if he has nothing to coved up?

[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]I don't recall people saying the president was covering up the Solyndra mess we just said that he loaned them money after his own staff warned him not to give them the money. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000]Strike 3 your out.[/COLOR][/LEFT]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;953913]In other news, I love debunking the talking point the Obamacare adds to the deficit.

[URL="http://www.bankrate.com/financing/insurance/cbo-obamacare-cuts-deficit/"]CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com[/URL][/quote]
From your link.

[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]Since states now have the option to accept or reject the government's offer to pay 100 percent of the initial cost to expand Medicaid, the CBO [B]estimates that 3 million fewer Americans than previously expected will gain health insurance coverage under health care reform.[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000]As a result, taxpayers will save about $84 billion between 2012 and 2022, when an additional 30 million Americans will have been added to the health insurance pool.[/COLOR][/LEFT]


[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]Read more: [URL="http://www.bankrate.com/financing/insurance/cbo-obamacare-cuts-deficit/#ixzz29lMSx77Z"]CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com[/URL] [URL="http://www.bankrate.com/financing/insurance/cbo-obamacare-cuts-deficit/#ixzz29lMSx77Z"]CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com[/URL][/COLOR][/LEFT]

[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]I thought the arguement on Obama care was by insuring more people we reduce cost. Now by not adding these people its going to reduce cost? Which is it? [/COLOR][/LEFT]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Wait a minute, why couldn't it be both? Who says that's it one or the other. It's absolutely true the protest at the Egyptian embassy were sparked by the video.

Firstdown, you're late to the game. There's been no cover-up on Fast and Furious. AG Holder was cleared of any wrong doing. It was determined by an independent review board that neither the White House nor AG Holder was involved in a cover-up. Zilch.

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/20/us/report-places-blame-in-operation-fast-and-furious.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0[/url]

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/eric-holder-cleared-wrongdoing-fast-furious-case-190134862.html]Eric Holder cleared of wrongdoing in Fast and Furious case | The Ticket - Yahoo! News[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;953924]From your link.

[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]Since states now have the option to accept or reject the government's offer to pay 100 percent of the initial cost to expand Medicaid, the CBO [B]estimates that 3 million fewer Americans than previously expected will gain health insurance coverage under health care reform.[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000]As a result, taxpayers will save about $84 billion between 2012 and 2022, when an additional 30 million Americans will have been added to the health insurance pool.[/COLOR][/LEFT]


[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]Read more: [URL="http://www.bankrate.com/financing/insurance/cbo-obamacare-cuts-deficit/#ixzz29lMSx77Z"]CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com[/URL] [URL="http://www.bankrate.com/financing/insurance/cbo-obamacare-cuts-deficit/#ixzz29lMSx77Z"]CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com[/URL][/COLOR][/LEFT]

[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]I thought the arguement on Obama care was by insuring more people we reduce cost. Now by not adding these people its going to reduce cost? Which is it? [/COLOR][/LEFT][/quote]

The plan isn't fully implemented until 2014. Costs have definitely slowed and leveled off since the law passed.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/does-mitt-romney-law-problem-124550198--abc-news-topstories.html]Does Romney Have an In-Law Problem? - Yahoo! News[/url]


This seems fitting that 2 scumbag business guys related to Romney are campaigning for him. He'll do wonders for our economy guys!! Just vote him and and he'll then give you the specifics on how he's going to do this!

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;953923]Well its your man one day saying its a terrorist attack and then the following that up by saying it was an uncontrolled mob over a movie. Its also his administration who denied extra security. Plenty of evidences shows they knew it was a terrorist attack but for some reason (I'd say because they denied more security) they said it was a mob.

Funny you even bring up Fast and Furious. So why is the president not providing the documents requested by cobgress if he has nothing to coved up?

[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]I don't recall people saying the president was covering up the Solyndra mess we just said that he loaned them money after his own staff warned him not to give them the money. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000]Strike 3 your out.[/COLOR][/LEFT][/quote]

The security request was in Tripoli 400 miles away, not Benghazi where the attack took place. That's a fact. So you're wrong.

The Administration didn't deny security. Security requests are made to State Department. The president doesn't have purview over security at Embassy posts. It's also true that Congress cut funding for additional embassy security.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

For the record, I absolutely think things could have been handled better. There seems to be inter-agency confusion on the timeline of events and the intel is murky at best.

That said, I don't think there was some secret cover-up or scandal. But the Administration could have been and should have been more forthcoming with the details they had at the time and they weren't. Now that the whole thing is politicized, they'll only share details that will portray them in a favorable light. And that's what's sad. On balance, they could have done a much better job all around.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;953936]The security request was in Tripoli 400 miles away, not Benghazi where the attack took place. That's a fact. So you're wrong.

The Administration didn't deny security. Security requests are made to State Department. The president doesn't have purview over security at Embassy posts. It's also true that Congress cut funding for additional embassy security.[/quote]

He didn't have problem sending security after it happened all arround the world as he stated in the debate.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;953936]The security request was in Tripoli 400 miles away, not Benghazi where the attack took place. That's a fact. [B]So you're wrong. [/B]

The Administration didn't deny security. Security requests are made to State Department. The president doesn't have purview over security at Embassy posts. It's also true that Congress cut funding for additional embassy security.[/quote]

You better tell that to his state department.

On Wednesday, the State Department's former point man on security in Libya [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/10/politics/congress-libya-attack/index.html"][COLOR=#0066cc]told the House Oversight Committee[/COLOR][/URL] that he asked for additional security help for the Benghazi facility months before the attack, but was denied.
Various communications dating back a year asked for three to five diplomatic security agents, according to testimony at Wednesday's hearing. But Eric Nordstrom, the one-time regional security officer, said he verbally asked for 12 agents.
The request for 12 agents was rebuffed by the regional director of the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, Nordstrom testified.

[URL]http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security/index.html[/URL]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;953955]He didn't have problem sending security after it happened all arround the world as he stated in the debate.[/quote]

I guess my point is, it's easy to critique what should have happened in the aftermath. How things could have been done better. The truth is getting a security detail for the Benghazi consulate was a very tricky and complicated matter that involved the Libyan government and ours. They are a country in transition after the fall of Ghadafy. You know, we don't go to these countries expecting rockets to be aimed at us. It's just part of who we are as a nation. Freedom is expressed both ways. We were their to help the democratic process move in the right direction. Barricading our officials behind barbed wire fences and full body armored Marines sends a mixed message about why we're there and whom we're helping.

Libya wasn't high on the list of potential terror threats. Someone made a judgement call. In hindsight, it was a bad call. Both the president and Secretary Clinton have said as much. So we could go back and forth and play the blame game, but that won't bring back Ambassador Stevens or the other Americans that were killed.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;953963]You better tell that to his state department.

On Wednesday, the State Department's former point man on security in Libya [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/10/politics/congress-libya-attack/index.html"][COLOR=#0066cc]told the House Oversight Committee[/COLOR][/URL] that he asked for additional security help for the Benghazi facility months before the attack, but was denied.
Various communications dating back a year asked for three to five diplomatic security agents, according to testimony at Wednesday's hearing. But Eric Nordstrom, the one-time regional security officer, said he verbally asked for 12 agents.
The request for 12 agents was rebuffed by the regional director of the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, Nordstrom testified.

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security/index.html]CNN Fact Check: What about the security in Benghazi? - CNN.com[/url][/quote]

On Tuesday, two senior State Department officials told reporters that U.S. and Libyan security personnel in Benghazi were out-manned, and that no reasonable security presence could have fended off the assault.

It's unclear how high Nordstrom's request got in the administration, but he says he did ask the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs for more security help at the Benghazi post.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

LOL...I definitely don't have it.

[YT]tUo3sM3mQF8[/YT]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;953913]In other news, I love debunking the talking point the Obamacare adds to the deficit.

[URL="http://www.bankrate.com/financing/insurance/cbo-obamacare-cuts-deficit/"]CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com[/URL][/quote]You're dead on, when you account for all the new tax hikes, and cuts to Medicare (over $ 1T) included in Obamacare it "cuts" the deficit. Great policy, cut benefits and coverage options for seniors (who are the biggest users of healthcare) and cover more lower income young people. Fits right in with the whole Quality Adjusted Life Years school of thought

[url=http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbo-obamacare-cost-1930-trillion-leave-30-million-uninsured_649066.html]CBO: Obamacare to Cost $1.930 Trillion, Leave 30 Million Uninsured | The Weekly Standard[/url]

[url=http://washingtonexaminer.com/cbo-obamacare-mandate-will-cost-6-million-taxpayers-7-billion-in-2016/article/2508483]CBO: Obamacare mandate will cost 6 million taxpayers $7 billion in 2016 | WashingtonExaminer.com[/url]

[url=http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/09/04/will-obamacare-play-games-with-your-actual-life/]Will Obamacare Play Games With Your Actual Life? - Forbes[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;953873]Again, you can choose to ignore what I said and avoid the main issue....but as I stated before, any statement by Romney has no effect on the actions/statements of the Obama Administration.
.[/quote]


Again BS you choose to ignore the victims families and what they were going through,...just like Romney.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;954032]Again BS you choose to ignore the victims families and what they were going through,...just like Romney.[/quote]I haven't ignored the victims' families at all. I already stated my disagreement with Romney's initial statement in another thread.

You're spinning faster than the clowns on Spin Alley after the debates and are choosing not to acknowledge my point, which you know is correct. Again, [I][B]for the third time[/B][/I], nothing Romney said has any affect (and if it does it is another confirmation that we need a new POTUS) on Obama's response or statements regarding Benghazi.

And while we're talking about ignoring victims' families, why hasn't the Obama Admin provided a legit response to Pat Smith?

[URL="http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/tragic_ma_optimal_my_ass_wYmDf3u12EExRAoeCAsyZI"]Pat Smith, mother of Sean Smith, one of four Americans killed in Libya embassy attack, angry US government still can't tell her what happened - NYPOST.com[/URL]

Also, why did Sec. Clinton mention the stupid-ass video at the ceremony for the vicitms in Dover, [I][B]while the coffins were yards away,[/B][/I] when they knew damn right well this was a terrorist attack! Is that fair to the victims' families?

[URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57513270/remains-of-libya-attack-victims-return-home/"]Remains of Libya attack victims return home - CBS News[/URL]

Do not for one second lecture me on ignoring the victims or their families. If the Obama Admin had done its job there would be no victims or caskets. This was a MAJOR FUBAR, and it's sure a hell of a lot more than a "bump in the road" or "not optimal".

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX_1B0w7Hzc[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;954124]

Do not for one second lecture me on ignoring the victims or their families. If the Obama Admin had done its job there would be no victims or caskets. This was a MAJOR FUBAR, and it's sure a hell of a lot more than a "bump in the road" or "not optimal".[/quote]

Again BS,just like blaming Bush for 9/11,your statement is ignorant,you can't stop the unknown.Yes I do know about security at the embassies my son-inlaw just got back from being stationed at the American Embassy in Egypt ,he knows something went wrong, but over there not over here.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Not sure why they didn't just pull them out of there. Let the attack happen to find no one home.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;955505]Not sure why they didn't just pull them out of there. Let the attack happen to find no one home.[/quote]


I will admit I don't know what happen,not alot of us do.I have 2 son in Laws both military ,one a Marine Sgt and one a Army SGT both have been in action,2 tours in Afghanistan for the Army and Egyt(at the Embassy) and Iraq for the Marine and both tell me how screwd up it is that they have outsource the security to "contractors" over there.Now did that have anything to do with anything...they don't know.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

There is no doubt that the whole ambassador killing was a major fckup. It is inexcusable but it is equally inexcusable for the people who let 911 happen and cut 300 million from embassy funding to puff their chests and tell us "we could do better."

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Sorry but the left is just gonna have to "eat" the Benghazi screw up.
I heard soooo many lefties say that 9/11 happened on "Bush's watch".
Well guess whos watch Benghazi happened on?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;955550]Sorry but the left is just gonna have to "eat" the Benghazi screw up.
I heard soooo many lefties say that 9/11 happened on "Bush's watch".
Well guess whos watch Benghazi happened on?[/quote]

Yeah, not sure you can compare 9/11 to Benghazi. And exactly what was the screw up? Was this a preventable attack? I haven's seen one shred of reporting that would suggest otherwise.

9/11 was an American tragedy. Benghazi was an American tragedy. I wish you guys would fukcing get that through your heads.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Mitt seals it up tonight

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

I think we as the American public really fail to understand how intelligence works. While there are systems currently being developed and tweak to help information sharing it is quite difficult to put together all the puzzle pieces. You get tons of small hints that you have to look at, in conjunction with other pieces, to give you an educated guess of what, when, where, why, and who. It is far from science and requires the analysts looking at this information to try to put that together. Now we have unstructured data going into place that can improve the quality of searches, but still difficult. A quick and dirty look at what you can do with systems like hadoop/mapreduce in this sense goes a little like this:

Analyst searches for: Obama likes apples.

You could get returns that look like: Obama likes apples (the best), Obama likes Peaches/Apples/McDonalds/etc. Additionally, you'll get other things such as: Romney likes apples, etc. So there's a ton of information, some of it contradictory, etc. It basically pulls out keywords and automatically makes some changes to check things having to do with important parts from all sorts of different sources.

Each intelligence agency has their own nomenclature, internal systems, tips, etc. Obviously, you can't share everything. You can't share sources, etc. Sources are sacred and should be seen by as few people as possible.

That is a very very rough run of what happens. While I'm far from an expert, for those interested -- I could explain a bit more. With all of that said, if you want to know more about the unstructured data stuff, I suggest looking at NetFlix's tech blog. Gives you some nice details on what and how it can do things. In fact, Netflix has nearly eliminated all SQL from their environment.

With that long rant above, I believe that it's impossible to blame any president solely for nearly any terrorist attack. It's very easy to look back at an event with 20/20 hindsight and say "We should have seen it!" I doubt this information even made it to Hill-dog's level. Asking for more security and tips probably happen 40x a day. You have to balance that with budgetary concerns. Budgets for federal government are shrinking quickly and these types of moves have to be more carefully considered before enacting. This probably stopped at the bureau level. This is not the first embassy attack, and it certainly won't be the last. There's only so much you can do in this situation. Would an additional 5 DS agents have stopped this? Very doubtful. Each embassy has quite a few Marines and some DS agents present -- but it would have been hard to stop this type of attack.

This isn't the first embassy/consulate attack and it certainly won't be the last. It's probably more common to see US owned housing get attacked. These attacks rise up quickly and often would be difficult to completely avoid.

When it comes down to it, US intelligence has done a good job of putting together the pieces of the puzzle. We've heard in the news multiple times lately of the FBI thwarting possible attacks. There will always be chinks in the armor where things slide through -- but we have to remember that the whole process is a guessing game, not irreputable facts.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=saden1;955529]There is no doubt that the whole ambassador killing was a major fckup. It is inexcusable but it is equally inexcusable for the people who let 911 happen and cut 300 million from embassy funding to puff their chests and tell us "we could do better."[/quote]Some more detail on the funding issues.

[url=http://thehill.com/homenews/house/250237-gop-embassy-security-cuts-draw-democrats-scrutiny]GOP cuts to embassy security draw scrutiny, jabs from Democrats - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com[/url]

The way I see it, we should close a bunch of consulates....particularly in high risk zones. Too much risk, too much potential cost in lives and dollars.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;955612]Some more detail on the funding issues.

[url=http://thehill.com/homenews/house/250237-gop-embassy-security-cuts-draw-democrats-scrutiny]GOP cuts to embassy security draw scrutiny, jabs from Democrats - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com[/url]

The way I see it, we should close a bunch of consulates....particularly in high risk zones. Too much risk, too much potential cost in lives and dollars.[/quote]

So the question then for me at least is if you are going to claim these cuts are necessary and worth doing then how can you turn around and say cutting defense spending is a bad idea now matter what and chastising democrats for pretty much doing the same thing with respect to defense spending?

It's hard for me to take people seriously let alone vote for them if they aren't consistent. Consistency is forbearance of wisdom and a necessary character trait in those who seek to lead and while team Obama hasn't been consistent in it's speech with respect to the attack it is fair to say that he himself has.

To me criticism of administration with respect to Bengazi comes down to "you shouldn't send an ambassador with light detail in dangerous territory" and "always utilize 'no comments' until our investigation is complete" not "the president is unfit to lead" and "he sympathizes with terrorists."

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;955579]Yeah, not sure you can compare 9/11 to Benghazi. And exactly what was the screw up? Was this a preventable attack? I haven's seen one shred of reporting that would suggest otherwise.

9/11 was an American tragedy. Benghazi was an American tragedy. I wish you guys would fukcing get that through your heads.[/quote]

So your saying that the US is incapable of defending itself from terroist attacks under Obama? OK

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;955612]Some more detail on the funding issues.

[url=http://thehill.com/homenews/house/250237-gop-embassy-security-cuts-draw-democrats-scrutiny]GOP cuts to embassy security draw scrutiny, jabs from Democrats - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com[/url]

[B]The way I see it, we should close a bunch of consulates....particularly in high risk zones. Too much risk, too much potential cost in lives and dollars.[/B][/quote]

I couldn't disagree with you more. People going into the Foreign Service are aware of the risks. They know that they will often be in harms way because of where they are in the world. It's important that the United States have a presence in those areas for multiple reasons.
1. To be diplomats -- reach out to the community, engage everyone and learn about their culture and customs. It helps to build bridges.
2. To be available to solve issues for US citizens. That embassy is a little piece of America in every country and the diplomats are, for all intents and purposes, the president of the United States in those countries.
3. Intelligence. Where do you think we get intelligence. It's not on the streets of Georgetown. It's in these dangerous areas. This gives all of our communities a safe harbor in every country. Allowing for secure transmissions and safety.

What do you think Embassyies do, SS? Just grant Visa's? That's just how they create revenue -- it is a tiny portion of what the US Dept. of State actually does.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=saden1;955646]So the question then for me at least is if you are going to claim these cuts are necessary and worth doing then how can you turn around and say cutting defense spending is a bad idea now matter what and chastising democrats for pretty much doing the same thing with respect to defense spending? [/quote]I agree defense cuts are needed, but not the current level of cuts ($ 1T total - $ 500M previous + $ 500M sequestration). Jobs need to be preserved as much as possible and the "scapel" approach rather than the Obama "meat ax".

[quote][I][B]To me criticism of administration with respect to Bengazi comes down to "you shouldn't send an ambassador with light detail in dangerous territory" and "always utilize 'no comments' until our investigation is complete"[/B][/I] not "the president is unfit to lead" and "he sympathizes with terrorists."[/quote]Agree on bolded.....but since I've got $$$ on the line I'll continue with the second set of points :cool-smil

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Daseal;955663]I couldn't disagree with you more. People going into the Foreign Service are aware of the risks. They know that they will often be in harms way because of where they are in the world. It's important that the United States have a presence in those areas for multiple reasons.
1. To be diplomats -- reach out to the community, engage everyone and learn about their culture and customs. It helps to build bridges.
2. To be available to solve issues for US citizens. That embassy is a little piece of America in every country and the diplomats are, for all intents and purposes, the president of the United States in those countries.
3. Intelligence. Where do you think we get intelligence. It's not on the streets of Georgetown. It's in these dangerous areas. This gives all of our communities a safe harbor in every country. Allowing for secure transmissions and safety.

What do you think Embassyies do, SS? Just grant Visa's? That's just how they create revenue -- it is a tiny portion of what the US Dept. of State actually does.[/quote]I know exactly what embassies do, I worked for NSA.

Unless I would send my son into a situation, I'm not sending someone else's son/daughter there. Countries with civil wars and terrorist training grounds are not places where "bridges" are built. U.S. citizens should be made aware of countries where we have no consulate and advised to travel at their own risk (that stuff is already out there on DoS's site).

There was no USMC detatchment at Benghazi. Had there been a USMC presence, doubtful this would've happened. Sorry, if I can't bring adequate US security assets in to protect my personnel, then I'm not setting up shop.

I agree the consulate is U.S. soil. I also agree there should've been some sort of counter-strike on any terrorist organizations/camps even remotely affiliated with this within days of the attack. Nothing invites more violence from evil people than perceived weakness.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;955665]I agree defense cuts are needed, but not the current level of cuts ($ 1T total - $ 500M previous + $ 500M sequestration). Jobs need to be preserved as much as possible and the "scapel" approach rather than the Obama "meat ax".

Agree on bolded.....but since I've got $$$ on the line I'll continue with the second set of points :cool-smil[/quote]


The moment you bet with me is the moment you lost. There is no recovering from your deficit without a saintly miracle.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=saden1;955725]The moment you bet with me is the moment you lost. There is no recovering from your deficit without a saintly miracle.[/quote]The Pope did just cannonize 7 new Saints.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;955728]The Pope did just cannonize 7 new Saints.[/quote]

Good think [URL="http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/10/19/billy-graham-no-longer-thinks-mormonism-is-a-cult/"]you're fielding a cult[/URL]. :Smoker:

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;955654]So your saying that the US is incapable of defending itself from terroist attacks under Obama? OK[/quote]

No more than under Bush,OK.

Watching these two make me wish the Libertarian and Green Party candidates were included. These 2 might as well be saying the same thing, just shaded a tad. Let the libertarian candidate remind folks of the founding fathers warning of foreign entanglements. Let the Green candidate argue the point of less energy usage. In the end neither of these two aren't going to solve our problems or change the basic path this country is headed down.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;955829]Watching these two make me wish the Libertarian and Green Party candidates were included. These 2 might as well be saying the same thing, just shaded a tad. Let the libertarian candidate remind folks of the founding fathers warning of foreign entanglements. Let the Green candidate argue the point of less energy usage. In the end neither of these two aren't going to solve our problems or change the basic path this country is headed down.[/quote]

Heard Jill Stein was arrested trying to get into the last debate.

Seriously though, why don't they invite the Libertarian and Green party candidates?