Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=nonniey;1286873]come on now just google the covid nursing home deaths in new york, new jersey etc. And why it happened (political contributions were involved) . That is the primary reason the death rate was so high in those states -not because it was the early epicenter. Additionally lockdown states did no better with covid stats (and the aforementioned did a whole lot worse) than states that didn't lock down.[/quote]

bs.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1286826]“But trump”…I guess I won’t hear a SS rant about whataboutism…

Let’s look at the last 10-15 years of New York State Democrats and their sexual harassment, Elliot Spitz, Anthony Weiner and Cuomo. David Paterson also involved had multiple sexual harassment incidents since leaving office. I’m not even listing state legislators in New York

It’s clear, the Democratic Party in the state of New York is complicit in this behavior. Period[/quote]

Nice try Chico but I'm not gonna defend a party I don't follow and know nothing about.

What I do know is this - sexual harassment is not a left vs. right issue. It's a men vs. women issue. And consistently when Dems get caught do it we ostracize the guy - for an old example why don't we ask Al Franken what he's doing?

Oh yeah and the whole "but Trump" thing - is that the best defense of his behavior you got? Weak. Here, let me help you with your defense. Your options are: A. his behavior is perfectly acceptable or B. He literally does sooooooo much good for the country it excuses him grabbing women by the pussy (amongst other things).

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[QUOTE=nonniey;1286873]Come on now just google the COVID nursing home deaths in New York, New Jersey etc. and why it happened (Political contributions were involved) . That is the primary reason the death rate was so high in those states -not because it was the early epicenter. Additionally lockdown states did no better with Covid stats (and the aforementioned did a whole lot worse) than States that didn't lock down.[/QUOTE]


[emoji1750]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=mooby;1286875]Nice try Chico but I'm not gonna defend a party I don't follow and know nothing about.

What I do know is this - sexual harassment is not a left vs. right issue. It's a men vs. women issue. And consistently when Dems get caught do it we ostracize the guy - for an old example why don't we ask Al Franken what he's doing?

Oh yeah and the whole "but Trump" thing - is that the best defense of his behavior you got? Weak. Here, let me help you with your defense. Your options are: A. his behavior is perfectly acceptable or B. He literally does sooooooo much good for the country it excuses him grabbing women by the pussy (amongst other things).[/quote]

Lol…no I’m not gonna comment on the disturbing pattern of men in the New York Democratic Party over the last 10-15 years. a party i support with unapologetically.

but again, what about Trump, as if this somehow excuses this behavior.

What about Tara Reade?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=nonniey;1286873]Come on now just google the COVID nursing home deaths in New York, New Jersey etc. and why it happened (Political contributions were involved) . That is the primary reason the death rate was so high in those states -not because it was the early epicenter. Additionally lockdown states did no better with Covid stats (and the aforementioned did a whole lot worse) than States that didn't lock down.[/quote]

The non-lockdown States were the Dakotas, Iowa, Nebraska, Utah ... Id hope we could agree they are a bit different than NY,CA, FL

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1286882]Lol…no I’m not gonna comment on the disturbing pattern of men in the New York Democratic Party over the last 10-15 years. [B]a party i support with unapologetically[/B].

but again, what about Trump, as if this somehow excuses this behavior.

What about Tara Reade?[/quote]

But I don't support them unapologetically. I don't even follow them - because their policies do not have any bearing on where I live.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Chico23231;1286882]Lol…no I’m not gonna comment on the disturbing pattern of men in the New York Democratic Party over the last 10-15 years. a party i support with unapologetically.

but again, what about Trump, as if this somehow excuses this behavior.

[B]What about Tara Reade?[/B][/quote]

I had to refamiliarize myself with her and [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_assault_allegation#:~:text=During%20the%202020%20election%20campaign,in%20a%20Capitol%20Hill%20office"]her allegations[/URL].

Gonna assume you have already condemned Biden as being guilty of sexual assault because he's put his hands on women's shoulders and done similar things to that before right?

As you can already assume I'm just not sure whether to convict Biden due to the inconsistencies in her story - including her previous support of Biden all those years he wasn't running for president, and her statement saying "I wasn’t scared of him, that he was going to take me in a room or anything. It wasn’t that kind of vibe.” Sure the allegations might be credible - but there's no way to prove it and her story is inconsistent.

Who's up next Chico? What Dem politician is abusing his power or harassing women? Your declining to defend Trump while parading about the systemic pattern of promoting sexual harassers in the NYDP is weak. -5 respect.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SunnySide;1286894]The non-lockdown States were the Dakotas, Iowa, Nebraska, Utah ... Id hope we could agree they are a bit different than NY,CA, FL[/quote]

Florida was a non lock down State.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Giantone;1286874]bs.[/quote]

What is BS about it? The nursing home fiasco is widely known, reported on and heck even acknowledged now.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

It's simply false to say the nursing homes were the reason for the high early number of cases and deaths in NY. Population density led to it spreading quickly along with NYC being an international travel hub.

[URL="https://nyulangone.org/news/coronavirus-transmission-queens-drove-first-wave-new-york-citys-covid-19-pandemic"]Coronavirus Transmission in Queens Drove the First Wave of New York City’s COVID-19 Pandemic[/URL]

[URL="https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/us/new-york-coronavirus-explainer/index.html"]Why New York is the epicenter of the American coronavirus outbreak[/URL]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1286899]It's simply false to say the nursing homes were the reason for the high early number of cases and deaths in NY. Population density led to it spreading quickly along with NYC being an international travel hub.

[URL="https://nyulangone.org/news/coronavirus-transmission-queens-drove-first-wave-new-york-citys-covid-19-pandemic"]Coronavirus Transmission in Queens Drove the First Wave of New York City’s COVID-19 Pandemic[/URL]

[URL="https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/us/new-york-coronavirus-explainer/index.html"]Why New York is the epicenter of the American coronavirus outbreak[/URL][/quote]

I know this is an unreliable source but here you go from the New York Times.

"Nearly One-Third of U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Are Linked to Nursing Homes"

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html[/url]

Here are more reliable sources.

[url]https://meaww.com/andrew-cuomo-nursing-home-policy-new-york-cause-1000-covid-19-deaths-report[/url]

[url]https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/ny-nursing-home-deaths-may-have-been-50-higher-than-reported-ags-office-says/2853434/[/url]

Come on now I don't why many here are denying that Cuomo and other Governors (ie New Jersey) completely screwed up with their Nursing Home policies, which exposed the most vulnerable population to COVID, when it has been widely reported that they did so by even the left wing press.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=nonniey;1286901]I know this is an unreliable source but here you go from the New York Times.

"Nearly One-Third of U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Are Linked to Nursing Homes"

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html[/url]

Here are more reliable sources.

[url]https://meaww.com/andrew-cuomo-nursing-home-policy-new-york-cause-1000-covid-19-deaths-report[/url]

[url]https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/ny-nursing-home-deaths-may-have-been-50-higher-than-reported-ags-office-says/2853434/[/url][/quote]

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore. According to the NYT article nursing homes have accounted for 1/3 of all deaths in the US, that's not even close to accounting for the majority so even if you took those away covid was burning like a wild fire early on killing more than just the most vulnerable.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1286906]I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore. According to the NYT article nursing homes have accounted for 1/3 of all deaths in the US, that's not even close to accounting for the majority so even if you took those away covid was burning like a wild fire early on. And of course it killed a ton of people in nursing homes they were the most vulnerable population.[/quote]

Huh what percentage of the population do you think live in Nursing homes?


[url]https://www.simplyinsurance.com/nursing-home-statistics/[/url]

So less than .05% of the population has 40% of the deaths. The issue is Cuomo and other Governors policies sent those infected to the worst possible place they could have sent them (The nursing homes), and then they were reluctant to change those policies for quite some time after it became a disaster, and then they tried to cover it up (Cuomo and probably Whitmer should be going to jail for the later as that was an illegal action).


[url]https://theminnesotasun.com/2021/08/02/doj-drops-investigation-into-gov-cuomo/[/url]

"........Though the DOJ’s investigation was dropped, Cuomo still faces several other probes related to his nursing home order, as well as allegations of corruption and sexual harassment.....Cuomo is under criminal investigation by the U.S. attorney’s office in the Eastern District of New York (EDNY), along with the FBI, for his handling of the COVID-19 pandemic. Other than the nursing home order itself, the governor is under scrutiny for refusing to release data on nursing home deaths, a decision which the governor blamed on fear of political retaliation from President Donald Trump, and for silencing health officials who attempted to report accurate death numbers.

“There is proof that our governor and his administration went to such great lengths to cover up the true death toll....,”

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Yeah I get the rate of deaths was high in nursing homes, but going back to the original point here, NYC was an early epicenter mainly due to its population density and that's how it spread so quickly and got out of hand early on. Are we agreeing on this or no?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1286909]Yeah I get the rate of deaths was high in nursing homes, but going back to the original point here, NYC was an early epicenter mainly due to its population density and that's how it spread so quickly and got out of hand early on. Are we agreeing on this or no?[/quote]

Yes New York was an early epicenter but it was State Government policy (Corrupt policy at that - financial interests were involved) that caused the death rate to be so much higher than the norm.

What I don't get is the need to defend the Governors (New York, New Jersey, Michigan etc) that screwed up their management of the COVID crisis while attacking those that didn't like Florida (events could change this - Maybe New York, New Jersey and Michigan are now handling it well while Florida is now screwing it up - time will tell - remember last year the press was praising those states while condemning Florida they got that wrong then).

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

High death rates in nursing homes were a problem in pretty much every state. NY mishandled it for sure, but once the virus gets in the door of a vulnerable population like that its going to do it's thing.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Re the nursing home issue ...

Where should we have put these elderly after they get out of the hospital/go over covid?

Id assume they were in nursing homes bc family was not around or couldnt care for them to begin with.

Leave them out in the street?

Keep them in the hospitals that needed beds?

What should have happened to them?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=nonniey;1286910]Yes New York was an early epicenter but it was State Government policy (Corrupt policy at that - financial interests were involved) that caused the death rate to be so much higher than the norm.

What I don't get is the need to defend the Governors (New York, New Jersey, Michigan etc) that screwed up their management of the COVID crisis while attacking those that didn't like Florida (events could change this - Maybe New York, New Jersey and Michigan are now handling it well while Florida is now screwing it up - time will tell - remember last year the press was praising those states while condemning Florida they got that wrong then).[/quote]

What I dont get is people praising those who down played Covid in an effort to minimize the financial hit.

To each their own though. I think my gov (Maryland) did a good job. Closed schools, mask mandate, did a lock down. Wish he didnt get skunked on spending millions on covid tests from Korea that ended up being junk. Wish he didnt try and cut off fed unemployment money.

--------------------

Yet for much of the past year, some experts have quietly advanced a counterargument: that economic activity is mainly affected by the rising and falling severity of the pandemic itself — not the relative strictness of the measures implemented to mitigate it. In fact, these experts argued, nonpharmaceutical interventions, or NPIs — a set of 20 government responses such as business closures, mask mandates and stay-at-home advisories that Oxford University rates according to stringency — can have an economic upside. The more the virus seems to be under control, the more eager people will be to participate in the economy.

Last week, this argument got a boost with the publication of a new report by economists at the University of California, Los Angeles. According to the latest quarterly UCLA Anderson Forecast, not only did big states with more stringent COVID measures end 2020 with fewer infections per capita, they also tended to post better economic growth numbers last year than states with fewer restrictions.

In other words, California’s economy actually fared better than Florida’s.

Yahoo News spoke with economist Jerry Nickelsburg, the director of the UCLA Anderson Forecast, to find out more.

[url]https://news.yahoo.com/lockdown-states-like-california-did-better-economically-than-looser-states-like-florida-new-covid-data-shows-153025163.html[/url]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SunnySide;1286919]Re the nursing home issue ...

Where should we have put these elderly after they get out of the hospital/go over covid?

Id assume they were in nursing homes bc family was not around or couldnt care for them to begin with.

Leave them out in the street?

Keep them in the hospitals that needed beds?

What should have happened to them?[/quote]

Good question. It's just a sad reality especially here in the US. We don't do enough for our seniors and they often get the short end of the stick... and the virus especially gave zero F's about them.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=nonniey;1286898]What is BS about it? The nursing home fiasco is widely known, reported on and heck even acknowledged now.[/quote]

What about the Governor of Maryland?

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=nonniey;1286898]What is BS about it? The nursing home fiasco is widely known, reported on and heck even acknowledged now.[/quote]

No one is denying anything about the Nursing Homes but your statement went a little further and I quote ,"Come on now just google the COVID nursing home deaths in New York, New Jersey etc. and why it happened (Political contributions were involved) . That is the primary reason the death rate was so high in those states -not because it was the early epicenter. Additionally lockdown states did no better with Covid stats (and the aforementioned did a whole lot worse) than States that didn't lock down."


This was a pandemic of World Wide per portions and mistakes were made but you make it sound like the decisions were purely political and as I said that's BS. I feel bad for the people in the Nursing homes but they were there because family couldn't or wouldn't take care of them .Hospitals were full you tell us were these people should have gone? It was winter not everyone can walk around outside in 75 degrees like in Florida in Jan or Feb.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Of course covid numbers are worse for nursing homes. Covid feasts on old and health compromised. Thats literally where the old and health compromised live.

Thats like saying most school shootings happen in high schools.

man .. for a guy who doesnt give a shit about covid or what other people think about covid ... im posting a lot in here.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=SunnySide;1286919]Re the nursing home issue ...

[B]Where should we have put these elderly after they get out of the hospital/go over covid? [/B]

Id assume they were in nursing homes bc family was not around or couldnt care for them to begin with.

Leave them out in the street?

Keep them in the hospitals that needed beds?

What should have happened to them?[/quote]


Short answer: Anywhere but where they were put.

Long answer:

I would have begun by utilizing the 1000 bed hospital ship that was there and largely ignored. Then I would squelched my ego and asked for as many more as the government would send.

From there, I would have looked into military installations, both active and decommissioned. Move the young GIs into heated tents and move the elderly into the barracks. And a few portable generators would have got the old places up and running.

If that was not enough, I would looked at armories, dormitories, and anywhere else I could comfortably situate those old folks.

And just to be clear, I had no political axe to grind with Andrew Cuomo. I was a great admirer of his father and even interned in his office. We all got whomped by this and have largely stumbled around. But moving those people back into nursing homes was insane.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=JackLord;1286947]Short answer: Anywhere but where they were put.

Long answer:

I would have begun by utilizing the 1000 bed hospital ship that was there and largely ignored. Then I would squelched my ego and asked for as many more as the government would send.

From there, I would have looked into military installations, both active and decommissioned. Move the young GIs into heated tents and move the elderly into the barracks. And a few portable generators would have got the old places up and running.

If that was not enough, I would looked at armories, dormitories, and anywhere else I could comfortably situate those old folks.

And just to be clear, I had no political axe to grind with Andrew Cuomo. I was a great admirer of his father and even interned in his office. We all got whomped by this and have largely stumbled around. But moving those people back into nursing homes was insane.[/quote]

Just let them continue to post messages to rationalize clearly insane policies which was recklessly applied even as the cdc and who stated older people were most at risk from illness and death

[url]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm[/url]

On March 11, 2020, the World Health Organization declared the COVID-19 outbreak a pandemic (2). Data from China have indicated that older adults, particularly those with serious underlying health conditions, are at higher risk for severe COVID-19–associated illness and death than are younger persons (3). Although the majority of reported COVID-19 cases in China were mild (81%), approximately 80% of deaths occurred among adults aged ≥60 years; only one (0.1%) death occurred in a person aged ≤19 years

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

NY seriously botched things in the nursing homes that’s not even up for debate. But covid hit nursing homes hard all over the US let’s not pretend this was only a NY problem.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Giantone;1286933]What about the Governor of Maryland?[/quote]

???

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1286952]NY seriously botched things in the nursing homes that’s not even up for debate. But covid hit nursing homes hard all over the US let’s not pretend this was only a NY problem.[/quote]

I never said it was a problem exclusively tied to NY - I mentioned New Jersey, Michigan and also said etc. But moving the sick into nursing homes were almost exclusively Democratic Governors policies. (Not all Dems and not even most but definitely some of them). My understanding is it was tied to campaign contributions to those Governors by nursing home lobbyists - bucks were involved - I guess we'll get the answers when the criminal investigation of Cuomo on his COVID actions concludes).

Oh as for botching things up not being up to debate I'd say there are several posters here (cough, Punch, Gianttone, cough) that are debating it.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=MTK;1286952]NY seriously botched things in the nursing homes that’s not even up for debate. But covid hit nursing homes hard all over the US let’s not pretend this was only a NY problem.[/quote]

But New York happens to be currently run by someone who is clearly an arrogant bully. And it did not help that the media- including his clown of a little brother- touted him as the guy who was a guru at managing the crisis.

The list of politicians who screwed up royally is miles long. It transcends party lines and international borders.

What fascinates me, then and now, is that nobody seems capable of saying, "We are doing the best we can with what we believe to be the facts. We may be wrong and will adjust as needed."

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=JackLord;1286961]But New York happens to be currently run by someone who is clearly an arrogant bully. And it did not help that the media- including his clown of a little brother- touted him as the guy who was a guru at managing the crisis.

The list of politicians who screwed up royally is miles long. It transcends party lines and international borders.

[B]What fascinates me, then and now, is that nobody seems capable of saying, "We are doing the best we can with what we believe to be the facts. We may be wrong and will adjust as needed."[/B][/quote]

This.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=JackLord;1286961].

What fascinates me, then and now, is that nobody seems capable of saying, "We are doing the best we can with what we believe to be the facts. We may be wrong and will adjust as needed."[/quote]

I thought Fauci had said this at least once maybe twice to Congress.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Giantone;1286964]I thought Fauci had said this at least once maybe twice to Congress.[/quote]

After being challenged and called out? I would not doubt it. Little problem with U.S. Code section 1621-- General Perjury.

Why did it take testifying before Congress to admit error?

And Jintsfan, just to be clear, I LIKE Dr. Fauci. I am old enough to remember his counsel during the Anthrax scare. Just in case you were contemplating hurling some histrionics my way. :joecool:

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=JackLord;1286967]After being challenged and called out? I would not doubt it. Little problem with U.S. Code section 1621-- General Perjury.

Why did it take testifying before Congress to admit error?

And Jintsfan, just to be clear, I LIKE Dr. Fauci. I am old enough to remember his counsel during the Anthrax scare. Just in case you were contemplating hurling some histrionics my way. :joecool:[/quote]

What error? They were doing the best they could with all the information avaiable to them as info changed so did suggestions,treatments,mandates, ...etc on how to handle . Criminalis knowing the seriouse of the problem and down playing it or saying it's fake and is made up by the other political party,hell it's not error .......it's criminal.Fauci did not purjur himsel,not even close.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=nonniey;1286953]???[/quote]

People are jumping on the Govs of NY and NJ about Covid and the nursing homes ,I won't the defend the NY Gov but there were problems everywhere and no one is calling for the heads of thos Govs.


Hogan in Maryland got good reveiws for his handeling of everything but yet.....................

"Dozens of Maryland nursing homes found with deficient infection control during coronavirus pandemic. Sixty-four nursing homes in Maryland failed to take sufficient infection control measures to protect residents from the coronavirus, according to state inspection records provided to The Baltimore Sun.Sep 2, 2020"

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Giantone;1286968][B]What error?[/B] They were doing the best they could with all the information avaiable to them as info changed so did suggestions,treatments,mandates, ...etc on how to handle . Criminalis knowing the seriouse of the problem and down playing it or saying it's fake and is made up by the other political party,hell it's not error .......it's criminal.Fauci did not purjur himsel,not even close.[/quote]

What error? I don't know Jintsfan. You stated the good doctor admitted error before Congress. I am taking you at your word.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[quote=Giantone;1286970]People are jumping on the Govs of NY and NJ about Covid and the nursing homes ,I won't the defend the NY Gov but there were problems everywhere and no one is calling for the heads of thos Govs.


Hogan in Maryland got good reveiws for his handeling of everything but yet.....................

"Dozens of Maryland nursing homes found with deficient infection control during coronavirus pandemic. Sixty-four nursing homes in Maryland failed to take sufficient infection control measures to protect residents from the coronavirus, according to state inspection records provided to The Baltimore Sun.Sep 2, 2020"[/quote]

Did Hogan force Nursing Homes to take in those sick from COVID? And again there is a criminal investigation of Cuomo's COVID actions so there is a difference.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[IMG]https://img.whaleshares.io/wls-img/ceruleanblue/2810d91fb823dbe38973083de9b8616e5560ee91.png[/IMG]

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

Ron DeShithead “the federal government cannot tell me what to do!”

Ron DeShithead “i will tell county officials what to do!”


Trump wanna be actually acting like he is unaware of the ventilators shipped to Florida. Really Ron? Still playing the nothing to see here card?

No wonder his approval rating is tanking.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8l6B_JWUAAJ5Z7?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]

Dukes County, MA (Martha's Vineyard): 14-DAY CHANGE +1,829%

Coronavirus (political)
 

Stop Chico. The right is the party of no masks. The right is the party of “dont take our freedom away” and the right is the majority of the antivaxx. Talking about the constituents. Even Trump got vaccinated and the rest of the GOP and Governors etc. Unfortunately the people that listened to their politically driven nonsense in the beginning are sticking to their guns. Bunch of conspiracy theorists. If it wasn’t for the right this country would be way ahead of the curve right now. Instead we are losing the battle because of misinformation. So go ahead and dig up some obscure fact about some blue part of the country with a population of 17,000 and some stupid meme making Obama look like Trump the Covid King where covid is on the rise or talk about Cuomo and nursing homes. Idc. The extreme right is responsible for this situation. You know it. I know it.

Re: Coronavirus (political)
 

[URL="https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/567433-schwarzenegger-to-anti-maskers-screw-your-freedom"]Schwarzenegger to anti-maskers: 'Screw your freedom'[/URL]

"Because with freedom comes obligations and responsibilities"

So true