Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Paintrain;541799]I see what you are saying so to me the solution is either one or the other. Either make the move to Cutler or make the commitment to Campbell with a 3 year extension. If we go into next offseason with a new QB (Cult of Colt-he's still not going to be ready, if ever, to be a starting NFL QB) then we've failed twice in this offseason to lock that position down.[/quote]

I think you make a good point, but a deal could get done midseason if Jason is playing lights out up to the bye week. At that point, Snyder and Cerrato could act quickly and get something done.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Skins_4_Lyfe;541701]#1 I'm not a big fan of the trade, I just had to laugh when I saw "After all Campbell has done"

#2 Brunnell was better than Campbell[/quote]

Collins was better then Campbell as well. I like Campbell and am on the fence about this trade but lets be real.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[COLOR=darkred][FONT=arial black][B][SIZE=7]Hell NO![/SIZE][/B][/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Mattyk72;541798]I guess I'm just not sold on Cutler being the answer when asking the question is he a true franchise QB. I'm not sure if JC is the answer either, but at least we can find out without having to give up more picks than we already gave up when we drafted him.[/quote]

I agree...its funny, Cutler is the current "hot name" in QB's because of last year...remember the year before?
Derek Anderson was a Pro-bowl QB...why not trade the world for him to be our QB for the next 10 years?
Why not...cause he sucks now..
but he didn't the year before.

The worst time to buy is when everyone thinks something is "hot"
Try buying stocks that way!....duh....its called buy low, sell high...not the reverse!

There is more risk here than some realize...we know what we have in Campbell.....solid, steady, few risks, few mistakes, great character guy.

Cutler is none of this things except perhaps solid...yes he can be coached but character can never be coached...and that is what gibbs took so much time to build...even bringing Daniels back shows that character is still important to the team.

This whole thing reeks of "HUH?" it is totally inconsistent with the changes that were made in terms of patience the last several years...this year with the 2 flashy signings of Hall and Haynesworth...I am having flashbacks of Jeff George again...I think that is what we are worried about.

To Dan, everything being even, the grass is always greener with another teams players, which is why he was accused of letting his good players go while signing big name aging FA's...at least before Gibbs.
A corner was turned a few years ago...and was turned back when we blew too much on Jason Taylor and this years cash party....

I hope someone in the FO puts the bottle down and leaves well enough alone.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=jdlea;541802]How did it work out for us? How many Super Bowls did we parlay those picks into? I like the picks we made, but we've made the playoffs 3 times since that deal. It didn't work out all that well.

I would also add that I'm not sold on Jay Cutler, he's marginally better than Jason Campbell with much better receivers and a far superior line, the only thing Jason had over Jay was a running game for 1/2 the season. (Royal is probably close to Santana's level right now, IMO)

If Cutler comes here, we'll be losing another year to "adjusting to a new QB"/"the QB learning a new system." He's not worth nearly what he'll command in a trade.

Finally, Jay Cutler is probably the most thin-skinned player in the NFL, now. Does anyone think, with the way Skins fans treat QB's, that he's a great fit here? I don't think he'll be able to deal with playing in Washington. And he had Brandon Marshall in Denver, the best receiver here is Santana Moss, that's not even comparison. Jay Cutler with throw a lot more picks here than he did in Denver, and he threw a lot in Denver.[/quote]

I agree with a lot of what you say but I'm not so sure that the Skins lose another year adjusting to the QB. Cutler came in and was starting about halfway thru his rookie season. He picked up enough to be the starter and I'm not sure it will take him long to get up to speed now that he's been a pro for awhile. I think Skins fans are so used to Campbell developing at a snail's pace that they forget some QBs can come in and play right away.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=irish;541808]I agree with a lot of what you say but I'm not so sure that the Skins lose another year adjusting to the QB. Cutler came in and was starting about halfway thru his rookie season. He picked up enough to be the starter and I'm not sure it will take him long to get up to speed now that he's been a pro for awhile. I think Skins fans are so used to Campbell developing at a snail's pace that they forget some QBs can come in and play right away.[/quote]

I see what you're saying, but Favre couldn't really get comfortable with the Jets last year. McNair had issues (while he was very effective) with the Ravens playbook after not being around for the offseason programs. Two veterans had issues with picking up a new O, it can't be that easy.

I think that it is less "JC developing at a snail's pace" and more the West Coast Offense throwing off the way a QB plays; it takes away playmaking instincts which, I believe, Jay relies on.

Steve Young says that it takes 3 years to get a QB used to the WCO and we want to give up on Campbell after 1 and change QB's, I guess that's okay if you think you're getting significantly better (I don't believe you are) or you're committed to your HC (I don't believe you are) and he's committed to the new QB.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Mattyk72;541798]I guess I'm just not sold on Cutler being the answer when asking the question is he a true franchise QB. I'm not sure if JC is the answer either, but at least we can find out without having to give up more picks than we already gave up when we drafted him.[/quote]

The problem is that the 25yr old pro Bowl QB is available now not next year. If JC doesn't improve enough for the redskins to resign him then we will be trying to find a replacement next year from far less appealing options. I am tired of being unstable at the QB position. I like JC a lot and I really wanted him to be the guy especialy since Joe Gibbs picked him, but it's just obvious the Redskins do not see him as that guy. So whether or not we get Cutler it's so obvious that unless JC throws 35 TD's next year he is not getting resigned.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=celts32;541811]The problem is that the 25yr old pro Bowl QB is available now not next year. If JC doesn't improve enough for the redskins to resign him then we will be trying to find a replacement next year from far less appealing options. I am tired of being unstable at the QB position. I like JC a lot and I really wanted him to be the guy especialy since Joe Gibbs picked him, but it's just obvious the Redskins do not see him as that guy. So whether or not we get Cutler it's so obvious that unless JC throws 35 TD's next year he is not getting resigned.[/quote]

There will be other guys available next year.

Funny you say you are tired of being unstable at QB yet you want another QB change. Just sayin'.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=TrustinGibbs;541805]Collins was better then Campbell as well. I like Campbell and am on the fence about this trade but lets be real.[/quote]

Collins played great in Saunders system for 5 inspired Sean Taylor games...
I know some like him...I do too...but he has no wheels and he's old as dirt. No one has seen him perform well in any other system...Campbell is much harder to defend because of his arm and his better mobility and strength plus his ability to take hits.

I liked Brunell but...the guy is a backup now for a reason...he is over the hill
Campbell is quite consistent...perhaps I should have said he is one of our most consistent QB's in a long time....and don't reply that he consistently sucks because he certainly doesn't

Half of you guys thought Campbell was God in the first half of last year (as well as Zorn)
I am glad we have seen a good amount of both of them to see more clearly...

Do I think Campbell is a 10...no way....he's probably a 7....and Cutler is probably an 8 (if he stops throwing picks)

But does that upgrade mean jack if you can't fix your line problem...no way.
Cutler would be a 7 behind our current line with our current receivers...this is just dumb to even be considering this unless we could get cutler and fortify the line and get another solid WR.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Cutler = the new Spurrier

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=skinsnut;541819]But does that upgrade mean jack if you can't fix your line problem...no way. Cutler would be a 7 behind our current line with our current receivers...this is just dumb to even be considering this unless we could get cutler and fortify the line and get another solid WR.[/quote]

That's probably the most logical paragraph I've read on this site in close to a year.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;541789]
1) I don't want to see us giving away more draft picks. I don't think the Broncos are going to get the two #1 picks they're asking for, but the price will be steep regardless. I'm guessing our #13 this year and another high rounder next year.[/quote]
Finding a true franchise QB is one of the hardest things to do in football. The reported interest across the league in Cutler is astonishing. Evidently, alot of teams feel he can be a perennial pro-bowler for a very long time.

IF, and this is a huge IF because of his health concerns, Cutler came here and performed as everyone thinks and expects him to for 10 years, wouldnt that be worth a couple of first round picks? We've seen how often QBs taken in the draft - even in the top 5 picks - fail. Its very very hard to find a franchise QB in the draft. Its a complete gamble. Wouldnt two 1st round picks for a "sure thing" franchise QB be worth it? IMO, thats a bargain.

[quote=Mattyk72;541789]2) I think it would be a bad move for the locker room. JC is well liked and respected by his teammates. Cutler, at least character wise, is not on par with JC. I think this move would piss off a lot of guys in the locker room. Would they get over it and still play hard in the end? Sure. But it's these type of disruptive moves that keep the Redskins in perennial transition mode. Say hello to 8-8 again.[/quote]
According to Smoot, Campbell isnt nearly as loved by his teammates as you think. Unless Cutler is a total douche and would play horribly here, I think the locker room effect would be a non-issue.

[quote=Mattyk72;541789]3) I can't for the life of me understand why they want to pull the plug on JC already. They're not even willing to see what he can do in year #2 under Zorn? That really boggles my mind. At least give him year #2 and if this year doesn't work out, don't re-sign him next year and then look at other options. I think this is jumping the gun and only shows that Snyder is reverting back to his pre-Gibbs days of looking for the splashy move and his overall lack of patience in putting together a long term winner.
[/quote]
I look at it this way - Whether or not Campbell plays well this year, theres probably a 90% or greater chance that Zorn is coaching his last season. Next year, Holmgreen, Gruden, Shanahan, and Cowher will all be available. Unless Zorn takes this team deep in the playoffs, Zorns gone after the season. Which means, even if Campbell plays extremely well, he'd almost certainly still have to learn a new system and start all over again in 2010.

The chances the stars will align and everything will playout "perfectly," with Zorn, Campbell, and the Redskins team performing well enough for Snyder (an owner known for his impatience) to have Zorn back for a 3rd year are very slim to none. With a more patient owner, one who doesnt feel the urge to make a big splash or mix things up nearly every year, things would be different. Like it or not, thats not the owner we have. In that context, it makes some sense to move Campbell now if we can get value for him - reguardless of whether we get Cutler or not.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

What did Smoot say exactly?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=celts32;541811]The problem is that the 25yr old pro Bowl QB is available now not next year. If JC doesn't improve enough for the redskins to resign him then we will be trying to find a replacement next year from far less appealing options. I am tired of being unstable at the QB position. I like JC a lot and I really wanted him to be the guy especialy since Joe Gibbs picked him, but it's just obvious the Redskins do not see him as that guy. So whether or not we get Cutler it's so obvious that unless JC throws 35 TD's next year he is not getting resigned.[/quote]

I put little value on Cutler's "Pro Bowl" status. The voting was held before Denver's meltdown in the last month and really, other QBs like Rivers or Pennington were more deserving.

The Pro Bowl doesn't mean a whole lot. Is London Fletcher a bad LB because he's never been voted/chosen for a Pro Bowl? He's been one of the league's best LBers for a decade, but no Pro Bowl honors, which is a joke.

Check out Cutler's second-half game log from last season:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7760/gamelog]Jay Cutler - Denver Broncos - Game Log - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

7 INTs and just 6 TDs in the last 6 games, QB rating of 78.15 over those games down the stretch...at least one pick in 13/16 games.

That's Pro Bowl material?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=celts32;541811]The problem is that the 25yr old pro Bowl QB is available now not next year. If JC doesn't improve enough for the redskins to resign him then we will be trying to find a replacement next year from far less appealing options. I am tired of being unstable at the QB position. I like JC a lot and I really wanted him to be the guy especialy since Joe Gibbs picked him, but it's just obvious the Redskins do not see him as that guy. So whether or not we get Cutler it's so obvious that unless JC throws 35 TD's next year he is not getting resigned.[/quote]

Exactly. Looking at 2009 and only 2009, it makes complete sense to stick with Campbell. However, when we consider the strong possibility that for one reason or another Campbell wont be here in 2010 or beyond, it makes alot of sense to investigate other options now.

I have huge reservations about Cutler, but we would be fools not to atleast investigate him as a possibility.