Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;569334][URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/22/doctors-wage-war-obamas-health-care-overhaul/"]Doctors Wage War Against Obama's Health Care Overhaul - Political News - FOXNews.com[/URL]

We've debated a lot about proposals and who pays, etc. etc. But here are two points that are definitely not good for us as patients:

1) This is war," Dr. George Watson, a Kansas physician and president-elect of the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons, told FOXNews.com Thursday. "This is a bureaucratic boondoggle to grab control of health care. Everything that has been proposed in the 1,018 page bill will contribute to the ruination of medicine."
Watson said the president's reform bill is loaded with rules and regulations that will ultimately result in shoddy patient care and long waiting lines. He blasted the bill as "insidious" by forcing doctors contracted with Medicare into the nationalized plan -- a "trap" he described as "involuntary servitude."

This doc is obviously pretty pissed-off as are many others. When I'm knocked out and the guy with a knife getting ready to dig around inside me is pissed-off at the new system of government run health care, that's not a real comfortable feeling for me

2) "Opponents of the bill also charge that it will deter prospective doctors from pursuing a medical degree -- adding to preexisting concerns over the current number of doctors."

[B]There's a shortage of doctors in Canada already (which proponents of Obama's plan attribute to other factors). My question is, why would a bright kid sacrifice the time, money, energy to make it through med school, internships, etc., etc. to have the gov't dictate what he/she can make and still have the risk of a malpractice suit effectively ending his/her career. Answer: the best and brightest will find something else to do.[/B][/quote]

This is a great point. Also, consider the amount of debt so many med students incur just to get through school in the first place. The risk side of the risk/reward for becoming a doctor could go way up.

Re: Obama Care
 

^ what a load of fear mongering crap.

Re: Obama Care
 

I just wonder if we could set up a Medical Academy, along the lines of the military academies. Seems like at the least that would be in the national interest. I know there are tons of institutions already, but if we could establish one where students went and basically accepted an obligatory national service period after, like the military requirements, maybe we could do something good.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;569337]^ what a load of fear mongering crap.[/quote]

Kind of like this??

[I]Mr Obama told NBC on Tuesday: “Doing nothing means that you’re going to lose what you have . . . Because on the current trajectory, your premiums are going to double again over the next five to 10 years.”[/I]

Re: Obama Care
 

I like that idea.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=GMScud;569341]Kind of like this??

[I]Mr Obama told NBC on Tuesday: “Doing nothing means that you’re going to lose what you have . . . Because on the current trajectory, your premiums are going to double again over the next five to 10 years.”[/I][/quote]

that too. Need some tall boots.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;569343]I like that idea.[/quote]

And, like Saden always says, I would be willing to pay more taxes for it, maybe greed hasn't eaten through to my very core yet ;)

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;569337]^ what a load of fear mongering crap.[/quote]
I guess the NY Times, Washington Post, USA Today, BBC, and Canadian Med Assoc are putting out "fear mongering crap" too.

[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/health/policy/27care.html[/URL]

[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-02-26-doctor-shortage_N.htm"]Shortage of surgeons pinches U.S. hospitals - USATODAY.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/19/AR2009061903583.html"]Primary-Care Doctor Shortage May Undermine Health Reform Efforts - washingtonpost.com[/URL]

[URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3969529.stm"]BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Hospitals 'face doctor shortage'[/URL]

[URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471824/Junior-doctor-shortage-causes-cancelled-operations.html"]Junior doctor shortage causes cancelled operations | Mail Online[/URL]

[URL="http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/08/28/doctor-shortage.html"]Canada's doctor shortage to worsen without changes: Fraser report[/URL]

[URL="http://www.moredoctors.ca/learn_more/"]CMA - Asks[/URL]

We're already beginning to experience a doctor shortage in the U.S. because of cost of schooling, spiraling malpractice insurance(because Congress won't pass caps on malpractice awards), and government rules/regs/payment limits for primary care docs. But I'm sure my point is completely wrong and everything will work out fine....just trust Premier Obama and the Politburo.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;569350]I guess the NY Times, Washington Post, USA Today, BBC, and Canadian Med Assoc are putting out "fear mongering crap" too.

[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/health/policy/27care.html[/URL]

[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-02-26-doctor-shortage_N.htm"]Shortage of surgeons pinches U.S. hospitals - USATODAY.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/19/AR2009061903583.html"]Primary-Care Doctor Shortage May Undermine Health Reform Efforts - washingtonpost.com[/URL]

[URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3969529.stm"]BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Hospitals 'face doctor shortage'[/URL]

[URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471824/Junior-doctor-shortage-causes-cancelled-operations.html"]Junior doctor shortage causes cancelled operations | Mail Online[/URL]

[URL="http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/08/28/doctor-shortage.html"]Canada's doctor shortage to worsen without changes: Fraser report[/URL]

[URL="http://www.moredoctors.ca/learn_more/"]CMA - Asks[/URL]

We're already beginning to experience a doctor shortage in the U.S. because of cost of schooling, spiraling malpractice insurance(because Congress won't pass caps on malpractice awards), and government rules/regs/payment limits for primary care docs. But I'm sure my point is completely wrong and everything will work out fine....just trust Premier Obama and the Politburo.[/quote]

Riiiight but the fear mongering is the focus on how if we change from our current system, the sky will fall, there will be no doctors, blah blah blah. Or how if we don't change our system, the bills will be out of control, etc. The point is that there ARE plenty of issues with the current system that need corrected, and there are ways to correct them both via modification of our current sys and via conversion to a new methodology. Everyone is too concerned with bombast to be proactive. There's no reason the gov shouldn't look at all of these issues and work on creating a system from the ground up whereby most of them are eliminated (socialist or not, that's right I went there :)). But too many people are getting paid with the status quo, so there's a lot of static out there. Why not revise/subsidize med school? Why not reduce/eliminate malpractice litigation? These things have already been proposed ad nauseam but the truth is that this is a HUGE industry with HUGE lobbying power and they are going to fight any/all reform every step of the way.

Re: Obama Care
 

Those of you who constantly argue against the evils of "big government" need to remember that big business can be just as bad/worse. You're getting ****ed either way, just depends on who's doing the thrusting. With the federal gov't, at least there's the illusion of oversight.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;569357]Those of you who constantly argue against the evils of "big government" need to remember that big business can be just as bad/worse. You're getting ****ed either way, just depends on who's doing the thrusting. With the federal gov't, at least there's the illusion of oversight.[/quote]

Illusion is an interesting choice of words there. Are you saying that perception is reality?

And now I will drop a random TJ quote..."It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;569357]Those of you who constantly argue against the evils of "big government" need to remember that big business can be just as bad/worse. You're getting ****ed either way, just depends on who's doing the thrusting. With the federal gov't, at least there's the illusion of oversight.[/quote]

I was thinking of something along this lines earlier. I will probably express it wrong:

With Big Business, everyone expects the executives to be evil/greedy/selfish, this in turn leads people to require oversight, and check all the fine print.

With Big Government, people expect the politicians to be seeking the public good, and this in turn leads people to allow Government self regulation, and turning a blind eye to bureaucratic malaise.

Which one leads to a better end product, that tends to be the root of alot of debates.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;569356]The point is that there ARE plenty of issues with the current system that need corrected, and there are ways to correct them both via modification of our current sys and via conversion to a new methodology. Everyone is too concerned with bombast to be proactive. There's no reason the gov shouldn't look at all of these issues and work on creating a system from the ground up whereby most of them are eliminated (socialist or not, that's right I went there :)). But too many people are getting paid with the status quo, so there's a lot of static out there. Why not revise/subsidize med school? Why not reduce/eliminate malpractice litigation? These things have already been proposed ad nauseam but the truth is that this is a HUGE industry with HUGE lobbying power and they are going to fight any/all reform every step of the way.[/quote]I agree with you, the current system has issues and needs to be reformed....not scrapped and rebuilt in dramatic haste by a Dem supermajority that currently weilds ALL the political clout. This current legislation that's being crammed down our throats hasn't been thoroughly evaluated and I'll bet money over half the people voting on this thing haven't even read 10% of it. And if it's passed in its current form, the things I mentioned that will happen, or I'll send you a dollar (I'm not a high roller like saden).

P.S. no problem with a program for gov't grants/loans for med school. Reducing malpractice litigation would be a HUGE plus for docs and the medical industry. It's the left and the trail lawyers that are lobbying against that.

Re: Obama Care
 

so if a doctor mis-treats one of your family, you don't want him to pay? they need to be held accountable

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;569374]so if a doctor mis-treats one of your family, you don't want him to pay? they need to be held accountable[/quote]Reducing.....not eliminate. Multi-million awards throw a monkey wrench into the malpractice insurance formula (Schneed can give more detail than I, I'm sure). I also don't agree with the $ 250K number floated a few years back by Bush & crew, it should be higher. But there has to be a finite number that malpractice insurers can work their premiums to cover, otherwise that cost will continue to spiral upwards.

There also needs to be better enforcement of existing systems in place to identify and punish bad docs.

[url=http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=ajrq5bdLgNew]Cap Medical Malpractice, Not Malpractice Awards: Ann Woolner - Bloomberg.com[/url]