Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=SmootSmack;569358]Illusion is an interesting choice of words there. Are you saying that perception is reality?

And now I will drop a random TJ quote..."It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."[/quote]

I'm saying that if anyone realistically believes there is any true oversight of public officials or private corporations, whether it be via 4th estate or internal mechanisms, they are kidding themselves. So yes, in this case, perception is reality. The individual is not heard by either party, corp. or gov. But with the nature of our government, there is at least hope that there could one day be transparency and that the greater good is what is being looked after, and not the bottom line. The same cannot be said for business.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;569383]I'm saying that if anyone realistically believes there is any true oversight of public officials or private corporations, whether it be via 4th estate or internal mechanisms, they are kidding themselves. So yes, in this case, perception is reality. The individual is not heard by either party, corp. or gov.[B] But with the nature of our government, there is at least hope that there could one day be transparency and that the greater good is what is being looked after, and not the bottom line[/B]. The same cannot be said for business.[/quote]
whoa, what nature is that??? politicians run for the same reason corporate execs seek the top. power. the nature of our government like every government is a self expandingg seat of power. yes we have elections, yes we can boot the bums out, but lets be realistic, what is the turnover of politicians? unless they are real bad guys, or the president, they can stay in there forever. where is the transparency for a senator Byrd, or senator strom thurmond?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;569377]Reducing.....not eliminate. Multi-million awards throw a monkey wrench into the malpractice insurance formula (Schneed can give more detail than I, I'm sure). I also don't agree with the $ 250K number floated a few years back by Bush & crew, it should be higher. But there has to be a finite number that malpractice insurers can work their premiums to cover, otherwise that cost will continue to spiral upwards.

There also needs to be better enforcement of existing systems in place to identify and punish bad docs.

[url=http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=ajrq5bdLgNew]Cap Medical Malpractice, Not Malpractice Awards: Ann Woolner - Bloomberg.com[/url][/quote]

People act as if there are these, to paraphrase Lewis Black, "Medicinal Banditos" roaming the countryside in search of new ways to maim and kill. The threat of loss of license, livelihood and possible incarceration should be enough to limit irresponsible practice. I think people should be protected against possible malpractice, but it doesn't have to be in the form of a lottery ticket.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;569388]whoa, what nature is that??? politicians run for the same reason corporate execs seek the top. power. the nature of our government like every government is a self expandingg seat of power. yes we have elections, yes we can boot the bums out, but lets be realistic, what is the turnover of politicians? unless they are real bad guys, or the president, they can stay in there forever. where is the transparency for a senator Byrd, or senator strom thurmond?[/quote]

Nature of democracy is what I was referring to. But I share your pessimism. The only real weapon any populace has is the threat of revolution.

Re: Obama Care
 

It dawned on me last night while watching Obama talk about health care and how much this sounds just like what was said when they started the goverment run health care in Mass. Then it clicked that this bill is from Ted Kennedy and where the heck is he from? Thats right Mass. and I wonder how much of that failing programe is in this federal bill they are trying to pass today. I know this is a repost but what they expected to happen in Mass. is what Obama is saying about this bill and what he says will not happen is just what happened in Mass. Don't know how one could read this post and not relate it to what is going on now.
[url]http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp112.pdf[/url]

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;569468]It dawned on me last night while watching Obama talk about health care and how much this sounds just like what was said when they started the goverment run health care in Mass. Then it clicked that this bill is from Ted Kennedy and where the heck is he from? Thats right Mass. and I wonder how much of that failing programe is in this federal bill they are trying to pass today. I know this is a repost but what they expected to happen in Mass. is what Obama is saying about this bill and what he says will not happen is just what happened in Mass. Don't know how one could read this post and not relate it to what is going on now.
[URL]http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp112.pdf[/URL][/quote]


You don't suppose that there might be some modifications to this bill that may address the Mass. health care problems?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;569473]You don't suppose that there might be some modifications to this bill that may address the Mass. health care problems?[/quote]
Maybe but I'll also bet Obama has not even read the bill.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;569485]Maybe but I'll also bet Obama has not even read the bill.[/quote]

I am sure he has. After the first reading, you mainly read mark ups, that is not as much as reading 1000 pages every time. I doubt ANY President puts his signature on a bill without at least knowing whats in it (granted it's not on his desk yet). For Congressmen and Senators, they can get away with it, claiming compromise blah blah blah.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=firstdown;569485]Maybe but I'll also bet Obama has not even read the bill.[/quote]

Wow. Got a basis for that off the wall assertion?

Press Conference:
Q: So Mr. President, now that you've signed the Law, how do you expect Title IV, Subtitle 6 to affect [insert subject matter].

A. Ummmm, ahhhhh I didn't actually read that part. So, uh... ummmm.... aahh, now, I'll have to go ahead and have those reports back to you this afternoon ya' ummm.

His personal legislation which he wants and is intending to use as his landmark legislative project and you think he didn't read it?

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;569495]Wow. Got a basis for that off the wall assertion?[/quote]

8 years of 'W' will do that to you.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=Mattyk72;569521]8 years of 'W' will do that to you.[/quote]

I would say the same thing again. No President is going to be derelict and not read what they are signing, regardless of the party. These guys are not dumb, they just play it on TV ;)

Re: Obama Care
 

Some more red ink to consider:

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/23/years-health-care-coverage-costs-turn-unfunded-mandate/"]After 10 Years, Health Care Coverage Costs Turn Into Unfunded Mandate - Political News - FOXNews.com[/URL]

From the article: For instance, one of the ways the House is raising funds to offset the cost of the health care reform is by "saving" some $380 billion from Medicare spending, according to the CBO.
But Medicare is already on the brink of collapse. Medicare Part A has $38 [B]trillion[/B] in unfunded liabilities. Any savings from Medicare would likely be used to help prevent its own financial problems.
[B]The Medicare Trust Fund also will not have enough money to pay its bills in 2017, just four years into the new reforms and yet no provision has been made to fix that. [/B]In fact, Medicare will need another $228 billion just from 2017 to 2019 to pay for promises already made by the federal government.

Re: Obama Care
 

SS33, do you realize every link you post from Fox is looked upon the same way you look at links from CNN? just wondering

Re: Obama Care
 

Dmek25, Thats why I try to find another source before posting because I know how the left feels about FOX. Even though I look at CNN as leaning left I do not rule out ever thing they write about and I would hope the people on the left would look at FOX the same way. Last night I missed most of Obama's speach but I did have fun flipping around from FOX, CNN, and MSNBC to get the different slants on what he said.

Re: Obama Care
 

[quote=dmek25;569557]SS33, do you realize every link you post from Fox is looked upon the same way you look at links from CNN? just wondering[/quote]I look at links from CNN as coming from a biased source with a liberal agenda. That doesn't mean I completely discount them as BS. Are there hard numbers in their article/link, if so where do they come from & how are they interpreted.

Anyway if this makes you feel better, here's the Trustees Report:

[URL]http://www.cms.hhs.gov/ReportsTrustFunds/downloads/tr2009.pdf[/URL]

My point is our current government medical benefit programs are stressed to point of insolvency in the next ten years without major reforms now. But Obama & the left-wing of the Dem party are trying to ram through another obscenely expensive government program. It doesn't make much sense.

Maybe Obama should be focusing on re-working Medicare and SS, less lofty goals than Universal Health Care, but far more practical and far more of an immediate need. How do you think an Obama re-election would look in 2012 if he achieved even modest success in these areas? Pretty good I'd say. With the control in Congress the Dems have it could easily pass and the Repubs would look real bad trying to stop it.

But again, Universal Health Care isn't the ultimate goal, it's expansion of the federal government to force more dependence and ultimately more confiscation of wealth/property. The only way to save all the benefit programs will be drastic tax increases, and not 1-2% either.