Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1284890]I love when people say they want “more facts” before they get the shot. That seems to be a common mantra, and Sweat voiced that opinion as well. Like the results from hundreds of millions of shots in arms aren’t enough data. The benefits are clear and evident, as are the downsides of not getting the shot. For our team, the NFL as a whole, our communities and the world at large.[/quote]

NOBODY, not one Doctor on the planet, knows what the long term side effects could be with these COVID vaccines approved under emergency use authorization.

If people want more facts before they put it in their body, that's an individual decision - not a mantra; and that decision should be respected just as much as someone else's decision to be the first in line.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

These are young athletes, I don't judge them on their personal/political/societal views. Nor do I expect them to have the smartest take on every subject. What I want them to be smart about is football, the rest is none of my business.

Plus, the NFL managed to have a full season in the pic of the pandemic, with no vaccine available. If they keep adequate protocoles, things will only get better from now, not worse.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1284891]NOBODY, not one Doctor on the planet, knows what the long term side effects could be with these COVID vaccines approved under emergency use authorization.

If people want more facts before they put it in their body, that's an individual decision - not a mantra; and that decision should be respected just as much as someone else's decision to be the first in line.[/quote]

Could not agree more. None of these are even approved by the FDA either. All emergency use.

If you have the shot, you're not better than anyone that doesn't. And if you don't have the shot, you're not better than anyone that does.

Our country is based on the freedom to make the choice of what we think is best for us or our family. That's it. It starts with individual freedom.

If you want the shot get it, if you don't want it, don't get it.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1284886]Doesn't trust the science is what it looks like.

I disagree with his stance here, especially in light of less than half the team getting the vaccine.

They did a great job of staying off the covid list last year, it would be a shame if it bit us in the ass this year because half the team doesn't give a shit.[/quote]

Thanks for the link.

I don't think there is enough there to assume he isn't trusting the science. He said he wanted more facts.

He has a pre-existing heart condition. Maybe he is concerned with how it would affect him.

I'm sure everyone has the same stories, but I've had folks in my family whose Dr has advised waiting because of pre-existing medical conditions.

WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1284891]NOBODY, not one Doctor on the planet, knows what the long term side effects could be with these COVID vaccines approved under emergency use authorization.

If people want more facts before they put it in their body, that's an individual decision - not a mantra; and that decision should be respected just as much as someone else's decision to be the first in line.[/QUOTE]


I would say the doctors and scientists have a pretty good idea about whether or not there could be long term side effects from the vaccine. They know exactly what the vaccine consists of and surely can make an educated summation of whether or not it could be dangerous. Unless it is death, it is a better alternative to the virus. Look at the long term side effects, let alone the deaths, that the virus has on people. Months and months later some still have major lung issues, etc.
I mean what more facts do you need other than the virus has killed millions of people??? That is fact enough for me. All the garbage chemicals in different crap foods, and illicit drugs and alcohol people consume but the want more information on a medicine? Ok.

And honestly being fully vaccinated I dont care if you get it or not. Im good. Swim at your own risk. I cant get it. I cant pass it on. From a football standpoint it bothers me because i would hate to see Sweat and others wind up getting it or being exposed and missing time. But hey to each their own. Im not chastising anyone. I fully disagree though.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1284899]Thanks for the link.

I don't think there is enough there to assume he isn't trusting the science. He said he wanted more facts.

[B]He has a pre-existing heart condition. Maybe he is concerned with how it would affect him.

I'm sure everyone has the same stories, but I've had folks in my family whose Dr has advised waiting because of pre-existing medical conditions.[/B][/quote]

Pretty sure it's people with pre-existing medical conditions who need it the most.

:saywhat:

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=davy;1284902]Pretty sure it's people with pre-existing medical conditions who need it the most.

:saywhat:[/quote]

This.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=davy;1284902]Pretty sure it's people with pre-existing medical conditions who need it the most.

:saywhat:[/quote]

Unless you don’t know what side effects you may have and it could make your condition worse…..

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Sweat said he isn’t going to deal with the virus unless he gets the virus. Lol. Pretty sure vaccines don’t work like that but hey what do i know?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=davy;1284902]Pretty sure it's people with pre-existing medical conditions who need it the most.

:saywhat:[/QUOTE]


Lol. Exactly.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=davy;1284902]Pretty sure it's people with pre-existing medical conditions who need it the most.

:saywhat:[/quote]

Pretty sure it depends on the pre-existing conditions, and if a doctor is advising someone to hold off, then probably ought to hold off. This is not speaking to Sweat, he didn't say a doctor advised him to hold off, but the earlier poster mentioned it about his family members.

Most vaccines have an average of 10 -12 year test and trial period ([URL="https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/how-covid-19-leading-innovation-clinical-trials"]On average, vaccine development can take 10-15 years.[/URL] ) and even then there are skeptics. I don't think anyone should be shamed or harassed if they choose to wait.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1284901]I would say the doctors and scientists have a pretty good idea about whether or not there could be long term side effects from the vaccine. They know exactly what the vaccine consists of and surely can make an educated summation of whether or not it could be dangerous. Unless it is death, it is a better alternative to the virus. Look at the long term side effects, let alone the deaths, that the virus has on people. Months and months later some still have major lung issues, etc.
I mean what more facts do you need other than the virus has killed millions of people??? That is fact enough for me. All the garbage chemicals in different crap foods, and illicit drugs and alcohol people consume but the want more information on a medicine? Ok.

And honestly being fully vaccinated I dont care if you get it or not. Im good. Swim at your own risk. I cant get it. I cant pass it on. From a football standpoint it bothers me because i would hate to see Sweat and others wind up getting it or being exposed and missing time. But hey to each their own. Im not chastising anyone. I fully disagree though.[/quote]

See, you need more facts too.

Even after being fully vaccinated, you can still contract the virus, and you can still transmit the virus. That's why none of the vaccines are said to be 100% effective.

And to say that doctors/scientists have a "pretty good idea", is not saying that they KNOW what the long term side effects will be (if any). Perhaps there will be none of significance, but as of now that is only their best guess...that's science.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1284915]See, you need more facts too.

[B]Even after being fully vaccinated, you can still contract the virus, and you can still transmit the virus. That's why none of the vaccines are said to be 100% effective.[/B]

And to say that doctors/scientists have a "pretty good idea", is not saying that they KNOW what the long term side effects will be (if any). Perhaps there will be none of significance, but as of now that is only their best guess...that's science.[/quote]

This is true, but iirc it reduces the odds you end up in the hospital with a life-threatening disease.

Those with pre-existing conditions have a very valid reason to wait, but what's the plan? Are they going to wait 10-20 years to see if there's no long term side effects?

I just don't want the 'rona being something we have to deal with every year like the flu.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1284915]See, you need more facts too.

Even after being fully vaccinated, you can still contract the virus, and you can still transmit the virus. That's why none of the vaccines are said to be 100% effective.

And to say that doctors/scientists have a "pretty good idea", is not saying that they KNOW what the long term side effects will be (if any). Perhaps there will be none of significance, but as of now that is only their best guess...that's science.[/quote]

Yeah but

Yes that’s how vaccines work. You can contract it and spread it. But this take needs some context.

Transmission of the vaccinated from what we know is extremely low. Best estimates .00005%. So extremely unlikely

The severity of the of covid if vaccinated is really the bread and butter of why it’s important. It drops the hospitalization rates big time, which were already low for a majority of the population. Meaning you don’t need help kicking covid if vaccinated. The trial death rates. I know from j&j it was 100% survival rate and think that was true with the others.

WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1284915]See, you need more facts too.

Even after being fully vaccinated, you can still contract the virus, and you can still transmit the virus. That's why none of the vaccines are said to be 100% effective.

And to say that doctors/scientists have a "pretty good idea", is not saying that they KNOW what the long term side effects will be (if any). Perhaps there will be none of significance, but as of now that is only their best guess...that's science.[/QUOTE]


It is extremely unlikely that i can transmit the virus. It is also almost 100 percent effective against getting or spreading the virus in regards to needing hospitalization. In other words my chances of winding up in the hospital or spreading it to someone who winds up in the hospital is one in a million. Those are the best “facts” we have. Meanwhile people all over the world who are not vaccinated are getting severely ill and dying. Fact.

We do not know anything. The sun may not rise tomorrow but i know where my money lies. Like i said Chief. Swim at your own risk. That is your prerogative. I feel damn good about being maskless at a god damn live show and not getting or making anyone sick. Woot. Fucking. Woot.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1284891]NOBODY, not one Doctor on the planet, knows what the long term side effects could be with these COVID vaccines approved under emergency use authorization.

If people want more facts before they put it in their body, that's an individual decision - not a mantra; and that decision should be respected just as much as someone else's decision to be the first in line.[/quote]

I won't hold it against someone that is waiting per say after all it has not gone through typical vetting, but the argument that we don't know the longitudinal effects of the vaccine just doesn't hold water. We also don't know the longitudinal effects of the virus and in the historical context of diseases and cures the long term effects of the disease are almost always more severe. It is what it is the perception of risk versus the actual risk very rarely match up.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[IMG]https://i.imgflip.com/5csacp.jpg[/IMG]

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

"Effective immediately, fully vaccinated Tiered staff and players will not be required to wear masks anywhere in the club facility, either indoors or outdoors," the NFL memo read in part. "An individual is considered "fully vaccinated" if 14 days have passed since the individual received his or her last dose of COVID-19 vaccine (either the single dose of Johnson & Johnson or the second does of Pfizer or Moderna). Tiered staff and players who are not fully vaccinated (i.e. have not received any vaccine, or are within the 14-day period after receipt of the last does of the vaccine) must continue to wear masks indoors and outdoors at the club facility as required in the October 16, 2020 Club Facility Protocol unless and until they are fully vaccinated."

[url]https://www.nfl.com/news/fully-vaccinated-players-staff-no-longer-required-to-wear-masks-at-nfl-team-faci[/url]

uffalo Bills GM Brandon Beane said on Wednesday that he would cut players if they did not receive the COVID-19 vaccination. B

“Yeah, I would [cut them], because it would be an advantage,” Beane said on the Buffalo Bills’ team-sponsored radio show, “One Bills Live.”

“I think there’s going to be some incentives, if you have ‘X’ number percent of your players and staff vaccinated, you can live normal, let’s just call it, back to the old days.”

Beane is the first NFL GM to come out and say that players would face consequences if they did not receive the vaccine. Most clubs are recommending their players get the vaccine.

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/brandon-beane-says-bills-who-dont-vaccinate-could-be-cut[/url]


im trying to find some articles or the NFL protocol re this 70% threshold I keep hearing about but I cant find anything. Its weird.

From what Ive heard, if we dont get to 70%:

- no large player meetings
- limited number of people in weight room etc
- masks indoors and outdoors
- players wouldnt be able to socialize or spend time together on road trips
- cant eat together
- cant interact with family or friends on the road


Teams that dont vax are going to be at a big disadvantage ....

If youre Jonathan Allen who got the vax .. Id have some feelings towards the Sweats who didnt get it and put the entire team through this

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1284921]I won't hold it against someone that is waiting per say after all it has not gone through typical vetting, but the argument that we don't know the longitudinal effects of the vaccine just doesn't hold water. We also don't know the longitudinal effects of the virus and in the historical context of diseases and cures the long term effects of the disease are almost always more severe. It is what it is the perception of risk versus the actual risk very rarely match up.[/QUOTE]


Not to mention that who gives a fuck about long term effects when the short term effects are millions dead and millions more sick.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1284931]Not to mention that who gives a fuck about long term effects when the short term effects are millions dead and millions more sick.[/quote]

Well since I plan on living long term, I obviously care about the long term ramifications. And the short term since the vaccine almost killed my wife.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1284931]Not to mention that who gives a fuck about long term effects when the short term effects are millions dead and millions more sick.[/quote]

And relating this all back to football, people who are worried about long term health effects probably shouldn't be playing in the NFL. What are they worried about? The vaccine is going to give them CTE?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

in February most NBA players didnt want teh vax .. by April they had reached 70% players vaxxed, up to 85% soon after as that was required for nba teams to have relaxed protocols and i dont remember hearing any team still under protocol.

theres time and hope for Skins players to change their mind. Sounds like Charles would change his mind.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1284886]Doesn't trust the science is what it looks like.

I disagree with his stance here, especially in light of less than half the team getting the vaccine.

They did a great job of staying off the covid list last year, it would be a shame if it bit us in the ass this year because half the team doesn't give a shit.[/quote]

Ooh the new buzz phrase, trust the "science".

Yes, the "science" that's been so clear and consistent and definitely has no bad money tied up in it.

[YT]xI7VcadCRRM[/YT]




I'll let you online doctors and scientists get back to bashing Montez Sweat for actually thinking for himself before blindly taking an experimental shot from the Government. Enjoy your day of violating everyone's HIPPA privacy because the Government said it's OK to do now. That totally makes it right.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MissouriSkin;1284934]Well since I plan on living long term, I obviously care about the long term ramifications. And the short term since the vaccine almost killed my wife.[/quote]

Damn man. Glad she made it through

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=MissouriSkin;1284934]Well since I plan on living long term, I obviously care about the long term ramifications. And the short term since the vaccine almost killed my wife.[/QUOTE]


Missouri sorry to hear about your wife, not sure exactly what happened, or if you are saying the vaccine almost killed her? You didn’t get to into it but i think you are saying the vaccine almost killed her, and again that is terrible and im glad she is ok. But millions have died from the virus. I can count on one hand the amount of people ive heard who had some reaction to the vaccine that killed them and there have been zero in this country. So all i am saying is if it is death vs possible long term ramifications of which there is little to no proof of ill take my chances on 0 vs millions.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=Monkeydad;1284938]Ooh the new buzz phrase, trust the "science".

Yes, the "science" that's been so clear and consistent and definitely has no bad money tied up in it.

[YT]xI7VcadCRRM[/YT]




I'll let you online doctors and scientists get back to bashing Montez Sweat for actually thinking for himself before blindly taking an experimental shot from the Government. Enjoy your day of violating everyone's HIPPA privacy because the Government said it's OK to do now. That totally makes it right.[/QUOTE]


Doctors and scientists are learning and studying as they go. Some you tube edited video of a doctor changing his opinions based on studies that are on going is a pretty weak counter argument against the vaccine.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I didn't realize there were so many doctors and scientists on this forum.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1284953]I didn't realize there were so many doctors and scientists on this forum.[/quote]

I'm a doctor, not a pool-man.

[YT]rldgroeunXM[/YT]

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1284953]I didn't realize there were so many doctors and scientists on this forum.[/quote]

This is practically a medical message board

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

TAMPA, Fla. -- Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians hasn't felt the need to bring in a specialist to talk to his players about the COVID-19 vaccine, which some players leaguewide have expressed skepticism about in recent days.

While Washington Football Team coach Ron Rivera brought Harvard immunologist Kizzmekia S. Corbett in to speak to his players Tuesday night, Arians said Thursday, "I'm the specialist."

He told players, "If you want to go back to normal, get vaccinated."

Arians said the Bucs are holding a vaccine drive for players and their families at the facility.

"There's going to be a long line over there right now," Arians said. "We were pretty short up until now. Hopefully we have a pretty good line."

Previous vaccine drives have also taken place at the facility for coaches and support staff members. [B]The goal is to have 85% of the team vaccinated, which Arians feels they'll be much closer to after the drive.[/B]

"Everybody's tired of meeting out here and eating outside, and doing all those things we had to do last year," Arians said. "It's still a personal choice, but I don't see a reason not to be vaccinated."

When asked if any players expressed concern or skepticism, as Washington's Montez Sweat did Wednesday, Arians said, "I haven't spoken to anybody that's resisted it. They're just too lazy to get one."

Outside linebacker Shaq Barrett said he and his wife, Jordanna, both received the vaccine. Their four children aren't old enough to qualify for the vaccine at this time, as the CDC currently recommends children ages 12 and older receive vaccines.

Barrett missed the season finale against the Atlanta Falcons because he was a close contact of a teammate who tested positive, despite never testing positive himself. Still, he was forced to quarantine for five days. His children were home-schooled in 2020 and did not have play dates with other children because of concerns about the virus.

"It's 'to each their own.' I recommend it," Barrett said Thursday. "I don't know why people wouldn't get it. But whatever makes you comfortable, whatever helps you sleep at night, you do that. But I would like for 85% of the team to be vaccinated."

[url]https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31604850/bruce-arians-tampa-bay-buccaneers-want-normal-get-vaccinated[/url]


so do we need to get 85% vax now or 70% ...

either way, if we are limited in meetings and on field and other teams arent, thats no good.

If players start to get fined bc they are eating together or hanging in hotel rooms on away games .. thats not good.

still plenty of time .. really hoping we meet what ever the percentage is.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any mandated percentage that each team must achieve with regard to vaccinations. I think Arians is speaking of the Bucs organizational goal (hope).

WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1284953]I didn't realize there were so many doctors and scientists on this forum.[/QUOTE]


Dont have to be a doctor or a scientist to relay the data that they present to us…..

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I know Sunnyside mentioned a 70 percent threshold for a team to gain those extra benefits. This article mentions an 85 percent threshold.

[url]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/05/31/one-team-already-has-65-of-90-players-vaccinated/[/url]

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1284953]I didn't realize there were so many doctors and scientists on this forum.[/quote]

Oh I'm not a doctor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. And with my access to Youtube and Google I think that qualifies me as much as any real doctor out there.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

HA! I like Holiday Inn...Marriott's are better though; and I don't watch Youtube and Google and think I'm as qualified as any doctor who studied for 10-15 years.

Honestly, I like the back and forth. I'm grateful that there are a lot of opinions out there, and people are willing and able to present them. I respect all of them. Just as I respect the decision to get the vaccine, and the decision to not get the vaccine.

You're always going to have your anti-vaxers. They likely won't budge, and that's their prerogative.

But if you are low risk for COVID complications should you contract it, and you aren't comfortable with the unknowns of the vaccine (or the knowns), I think it is perfectly reasonable to be hesitant. I do think most people in that category will eventually get it, as I did.

I just wish the first reaction wasn't to shun or "cancel" those people - as I have personally witnessed.

In my opinion, I think it's better to let people live their own lives, and make decisions for themselves and their families, without giving them grief.

You do you.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

so back to Montez Sweat - the CDC is having an emergency meeting about the rise in cases, however slight, in heart reactions to the vaccine in young adults. [url]https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/evidence-grows-stronger-covid-vaccine-link-heart-issue-cdc-says-n1270339[/url]

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1284975]so back to Montez Sweat - the CDC is having an emergency meeting about the rise in cases, however slight, in heart reactions to the vaccine in young adults. [url]https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/evidence-grows-stronger-covid-vaccine-link-heart-issue-cdc-says-n1270339[/url][/quote]

It’s a legit concern..I think Israel has good data on this. Appears to be much worse than the whole J&J deal

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

One more reason for people to be hesitant.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Ron Rivera says Washington Football Team will have open competition for starting QB job.

[url]https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ron-rivera-says-washington-football-team-will-have-open-competition-for-starting-qb-job/[/url]

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1284975]so back to Montez Sweat - the CDC is having an emergency meeting about the rise in cases, however slight, in heart reactions to the vaccine in young adults. [url]https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/evidence-grows-stronger-covid-vaccine-link-heart-issue-cdc-says-n1270339[/url][/quote]

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/11/us/politics/johnson-covid-vaccine-emergent.html[/url]

What could he possibly want more facts about?