Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060921]if you franchise him, can you even trade him ? That is why I said a late pick. I would trade him for a first in a heartbeat .

[COLOR="Red"]We will see how productive Orakpo is when he gets a big long term guaranteed contact[/COLOR].[/quote]

Why would you think he wouldn't be?
I would think he would get better.
And for that matter you could say that about every decent FA in the NFL.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SirLK26;1060897]I'm not sure D'Qwell Jackson would be a good signing, as he's 30 years old and his play has been declining the last few years. I expect us to make at least a small push for him, but I think he'll be asking for a lot more than he's worth. I know, London Fletcher...but Jackson is nowhere close to Fletcher's level.[/quote]

Declining?!? The guy had 141 tackles last year. The only year he hasn't had over 100 tackles since 2006 was 2009 when he only played 6 games. Not sure where your logic is there. He'd be a solid plug and play linebacker for another couple years.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1060927]Declining?!? The guy had 141 tackles last year. The only year he hasn't had over 100 tackles since 2006 was 2009 when he only played 6 games. Not sure where your logic is there. He'd be a solid plug and play linebacker for another couple years.[/quote]

I can play the stats game too. :Smoker: He had 2 fewer sacks and 1 less INT last year than he did in 2012.

But beyond that, his run defense has declined substantially since 2011. PFF had him ranked as the 4th worst run stopper among the 40 qualifying ILBs last season. He would be a good addition, though, as long as the price is right. Draft Shayne Skov or Christian Jones in the 3rd or 4th to wait behind him and hopefully start in a few years.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1060924]Haynesworth was a known "slacker". I don't think Orakpo's motivation has ever been questioned.

So you would convert a 1st rounder, who has played and earned franchise tag consideration, into a late pick a couple of years later?

I am curious, what do you think the Skins best and worst moves of the last 10 years was? Not trying to knock you, just curiosity. Also curious what your thought of the best and worst moves that don't involve the Skins at all.[/quote]

1) It is inevitable that anyone who gets a big long term contract will be less determined... there are plenty of players with big contracts being cut due to lower production or injury

2) You did not see my follow up regarding trading Orakpo. [B]IF you can franchise him, and trade him I would[/B] I know he is worth more than a late round pick...I would take as high a pick as I can get.... as a last resort I would take a late pick instead of nothing

3) The list of Redskins mistakes over the last 10 years is to long to post here. A few examples:

Kevin Barnes as a 3rd round pick, anyone who saw him at MD knew that was a mistake.

McNabb trade

WRs Thomas, and Kelly draft choices.

Plenty of free-agent signings Fat Albert, J Morgan,T Jackson, Jamal Brown.

Recent draft choices, trading up for LeRebius ?, small RBs Thompson and Jameson, OLB Jenkins ?

Good picks P. Thomas, Jordan, and Cousins

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Greg Hardy off the market...

[url=http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=10533987]NFL Greg Hardy gets franchise tag - ESPN[/url]

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060931]1) It is inevitable that anyone who gets a big long term contract will be less determined... there are plenty of players with big contracts being cut due to lower production or injury

2) You did not see my follow up regarding trading Orakpo. [B]IF you can franchise him, and trade him I would[/B] I know he is worth more than a late round pick...I would take as high a pick as I can get.... as a last resort I would take a late pick instead of nothing

3) The list of Redskins mistakes over the last 10 years is to long to post here. A few examples:

Kevin Barnes as a 3rd round pick, anyone who saw him at MD knew that was a mistake.

McNabb trade

WRs Thomas, and Kelly draft choices.

Plenty of free-agent signings Fat Albert, J Morgan,T Jackson, Jamal Brown.

Recent draft choices, trading up for LeRebius ?, small RBs Thompson and Jameson, OLB Jenkins ?

Good picks P. Thomas, Jordan, and Cousins[/quote]

So when P. Manning signed his long term contracts he was less determined? Or T Brady? Or Ryan Clark taking the larger deal with the Steelers. Motivation is determined by individual players. Nothing Orakpo has ever done has shown a lack of heart that Haynesworth, Archuletta, or various other busts across the league has shown. I would even point to Cofield as an example of a player that signed a long term deal and excelled.
A properly written contract, even a 10-11million dollar APY one with the salary cap's upward trend can protect the team.

2) I saw your follow up posts but felt the were irrelevant, and very refutable too, in that Orakpo was a 1st round pick, he has played well for us overall, and is considered a top FA in this class. Any suggestion of trading him for a 6th or 7th low round pick is insanity on the verge of Vinnie Cerrato's tenure, or simply not understanding the value of our own players.
Would you encourage the 49'ers to trade Aldon Smith for a low round pick. What would you think of a 49ers fan who suggested that.

3) way to grab the low hanging fruit. obviously the skins have a bunch of poor moves, but none really relevant to the concept of keeping our own. I also didn't see anything from other teams moves.
Let me cherry pick some transactions, and tell me what you think on a scale of 1 - 10, 1 is terrible move, 10 is awesome move:
1) Redskins letting Ryan Clark walk?
2) Bears resigning Cutler at end of season?
3) Bills trading Jason Peters to the Eagles for a 1st and 4th round pick after 6 seasons?
4) Baltimore Franchise tagging Ngata in 2011?

Just curious.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Orakpo will be 28 when his next contract starts, do you think he will be just as productive in his 30s ?

QBs are not getting the crap beaten out of them every play so it is easy to stay motivated.

The notion I am cherry picking Redskin mistakes is absurd, their record the last 10 years on and off the field speaks for itself.

................................................

The franchise tag price for LBs is now $11.5 million, tag and trade is the best move.

[QUOTE=Irrefutable;1060935]Orakpo will be 28 when his next contract starts, do you think he will be just as productive in his 30s ?

QBs are not getting the crap beaten out of them every play so it is easy to stay motivated.

The notion I am cherry picking Redskin mistakes is absurd, their record the last 10 years on and off the field speaks for itself.[/QUOTE]

I think olb's can be productive into their 30s, and I am confident a look at NFL rosters would bear that out. Also a well written contract can protect a team if the player doesn't work out.

I didn't mean cherry picking as much as going after low hanging fruit. Its easy to find skins bad moves, harder to find good moves. But you didn't say any non skins transactions that were comparable to Orakpos situation (I didn't say it had to be but that was the context of my question, sorry for my lack of clarity)

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060935]...The franchise tag price for LBs is now $11.5 million, tag and trade is the best move.[/quote]

Maybe; it depends on what you can get for him. If someone would give us multiple 1st rounders, I agree. But no one would even think of giving that. And anything less than multiple high picks wouldn't be worth it. You might as well keep him and hope he lives up to his contract.

I can see your logic, though, in trying to get something out of him instead of letting him walk for nothing, or, if he stays here, taking up a huge part of our cap space. That being said, there's no way he signs elsewhere. He's a very valuable part of our defense, and our FO recognizes that.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Orakpo:
G 64
GS 64
Sk 39.5
Int 1 yds29 1td lng 29
PD16
FF 6
FR 3 yds 0 0TD
Tackles 157
Asst 75

Clay Matthews
G 69
GS 66
Sks 50.0
Ints 4 yds109 2TD Lng 62
PD 23
FF 10
FR 3 yds 46 1TD
Tackles 189
Assists 58

Clay Matthews Contract last year 66Mil, bonus of 21Mil, and counts 10.9mil, this year.

Is Orakpo exactly Clay Matthews, no, but he is a LOT closer to Clay Matthews then he is to [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/ButlVi99.htm"]Victor Butler[/URL] (6th round selection of same draft class)

Bottomline, the Skins have a top FA player on our team, and we ought to make every effort to keep him. If he chooses to walk away, then that is his choice, but it shouldn't be because the Skins were penny wise, pound foolish.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SirLK26;1060929]I can play the stats game too. :Smoker: He had 2 fewer sacks and 1 less INT last year than he did in 2012.

But beyond that, his run defense has declined substantially since 2011. PFF had him ranked as the 4th worst run stopper among the 40 qualifying ILBs last season. He would be a good addition, though, as long as the price is right. Draft Shayne Skov or Christian Jones in the 3rd or 4th to wait behind him and hopefully start in a few years.[/quote]

London Fletcher was 32 when we signed him.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

if we go defense in FA i want Spikes and Linval Joseph. Spikes brings some attitude to the D, something we have been lacking bad then also drafting a LB too. Depending on Raks situation I wouldnt mind looking at Michael Johnson either.

Yo SmootSmack are you on twitter? I swear you sound just like this guy I follow.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1060938]Orakpo:
G 64
GS 64
Sk 39.5
Int 1 yds29 1td lng 29
PD16
FF 6
FR 3 yds 0 0TD
Tackles 157
Asst 75

Clay Matthews
G 69
GS 66
Sks 50.0
Ints 4 yds109 2TD Lng 62
PD 23
FF 10
FR 3 yds 46 1TD
Tackles 189
Assists 58

Clay Matthews Contract last year 66Mil, bonus of 21Mil, and counts 10.9mil, this year.

Is Orakpo exactly Clay Matthews, no, but he is a LOT closer to Clay Matthews then he is to [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/ButlVi99.htm"]Victor Butler[/URL] (6th round selection of same draft class)

Bottomline, the Skins have a top FA player on our team, and we ought to make every effort to keep him. If he chooses to walk away, then that is his choice, but it shouldn't be because the Skins were penny wise, pound foolish.[/quote]I agree. The Orakpo negotiations are a fairly easy litmus test to see if the organization is interested in getting it right this time around, and with the franchise tag, they hold a cheat card in their hand.

Basically, if they fail here, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060935]Orakpo will be 28 when his next contract starts, do you think he will be just as productive in his 30s ?

QBs are not getting the crap beaten out of them every play so it is easy to stay motivated.

The notion I am cherry picking Redskin mistakes is absurd, their record the last 10 years on and off the field speaks for itself.

................................................

The franchise tag price for LBs is now $11.5 million, tag and trade is the best move.[/quote]Tag and trade makes a lot of sense if you don't think he'll re-sign long term, but if they go back to back franchise tags instead, that's 2 years of Orakpo at $24-26 million guaranteed, or basically a tick above market rate. He would then hit the open market at 30.

This is going to be hard for the Redskins to screw up.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Sign him long term. They have to protect him with the tag before we get a long term deal done.

I have been waiting to hear that the skins have signed/tagged him.