Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1153425]You've got SolidSnake thinking you are talking straight from SM's playbook.

Our cap space is good next year, we have the 7th most cap space available, and next year before we sign KC we will have around 47mil, or the 6th most available with 44 players under contract (numbers from OTC) If you have a capable NFL qb, who knows your system you don't give it up for a longtime journeyman. Thats just not the way it works...[/quote]


The Ravens and Bears said the same thing. Now they are regretting much of those QB deals. KC still has the rest of the year to win me over on a long term deal, but I wouldn't give him anything remotely close to 20mil/year at this current stage. I will always have this mindset when it comes to salary vs talent in a salary cap system.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1153412]A few million? We're talking about the difference between 20mil/yr compared to 4mil/yr for a stop gap like McCoy. I like Kirk but I'm for one in the mindset that you dont' overpay for above average talent. So far, Kirk has shown he's marginal. He hasn't earned that long term deal in my opinion, but that could change the last half of this season. He had a really good game this past week, but we need to see it more consistently from week to week.

I highly doubt Kirk is netting us 5 more games with him starting. Kirk isn't the reason we're losing, but he's not always to reason we're winning either.[/quote]

20 million is the going rate for QB'S like Kirk though. I don't understand how fans don't get this yet.

Kirk is winning games, and our team direction is going up with him at QB. I just don't see how you replace that with McCoy or an unknown. When you are 20 million above the cap, and have 2 WR out the door on contract years to add another 10 million to that.

You pay Kirk who knows the offense and winning games. 11-5 in last 16 games, and you use 30 million to pay your own. Drafting defense player makers for the defense coming years. Like you have with the offense.

Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1153426]The Ravens and Bears said the same thing. Now they are regretting much of those QB deals. KC still has the rest of the year to win me over on a long term deal, but I wouldn't give him anything remotely close to 20mil/year at this current stage. I will always have this mindset when it comes to salary vs talent in a salary cap system.[/QUOTE]



It isn't so black and white though as just salary vs talent. I dont know what the Bears or Ravens cap situation was than, but ours is good. Cousins knows our system well.
QB is such an important position, that to go with McCoy and save money to sign a big free agent or a few decent free agents seems like a step backwards to me. We have a good young core group. Draft well, sign Cousins (if it were today, or if he continues playing like he is now), and we still have money to sign our own and keep the team, and staff together. That is a winning formula.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Kirk is going to get 16M a year easy if osweiller is worth it

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Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

If he agreed to 16 million he'd already be signed. He is going to average around 20 million, whether by us or another team.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1153434]Kirk is going to get 16M a year easy if osweiller is worth it

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I think I'd be fine with 16mil/year deal. (even now)

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Bucket;1153432]20 million is the going rate for QB'S like Kirk though. I don't understand how fans don't get this yet. [/quote]


I understand it quite well, but it's only so because idiot owners are overpaying and getting very little in return to show for it. How much are the Dolphins getting for the return on Tannehill? Osweiler? Flaaco? Cutler? Alex Smith? I can go down the list of QBs vastly overpaid and their teams aren't getting their money's worth, and their teams aren't even winning due to QB play.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1153438]I understand it quite well, but it's only so because idiot owners are overpaying and getting very little in return to show for it. How much are the Dolphins getting for the return on Tannehill? Osweiler? Flaaco? Cutler? Alex Smith? I can go down the list of QBs vastly overpaid and their teams aren't getting their money's worth, and their teams aren't even winning due to QB play.[/quote]

As others have said the going rate for average QB's like Osweiler is around 17 or 18 million. Are they overpaid? No, because that's what the market determined that they were worth. They may be in your eyes, and several others, but it's the market that determines their worth. Of the QB's that you list there aren't any better options out there, that's why they got their money.

Also KC is probably better than the QB's you have listed, outside of Flacco.

KC has earned the long term deal I think. He's proven to be a middle range starter, maybe slightly above that so he should be paid as such. We don't have any better options at this point. We aren't going anywhere with Colt McCoy under center.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Bucket;1153432]20 million is the going rate for QB'S like Kirk though. I don't understand how fans don't get this yet.

Kirk is winning games, and our team direction is going up with him at QB. I just don't see how you replace that with McCoy or an unknown. When you are 20 million above the cap, and have 2 WR out the door on contract years to add another 10 million to that.

You pay Kirk who knows the offense and winning games. 11-5 in last 16 games, and you use 30 million to pay your own. Drafting defense player makers for the defense coming years. Like you have with the offense.[/quote]

I think the mindset of fans that aren't pro KC is take the money you'd be paying him and go get a bunch of free agents, to fix the defense. Well we all know that way doesn't work. Like you said, the future play makers for the defense aren't on the team yet. Most of them are most likely playing college right now.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1153438]I understand it quite well, but it's only so because idiot owners are overpaying and getting very little in return to show for it. How much are the Dolphins getting for the return on Tannehill? Osweiler? Flaaco? Cutler? Alex Smith? I can go down the list of QBs vastly overpaid and their teams aren't getting their money's worth, and their teams aren't even winning due to QB play.[/quote]

I would argue that Kirk is playing better then every QB on that list since he became the starter.

None of them have 2 4th Quarter comebacks this year. Kirk has 2, should of been 3 if we held on yesterday.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1153449]I think the mindset of fans that aren't pro KC is take the money you'd be paying him and go get a bunch of free agents, to fix the defense. Well we all know that way doesn't work. Like you said, the future play makers for the defense aren't on the team yet. Most of them are most likely playing college right now.[/quote]

I said it earlier in this thread.

We are 20 million above the cap. That's with Kirk contract this year. We pay him 19 mil or 20 next yr? We are still 20+ mil above the cap and that's before Garcon and Djax contracts are removed.

Scot isn't going to spend a bunch of money on the defense. He's going to use that money to pay our own. I personally see Kirk as our own. He's 11-5 in his last 16 games.

We will continue to draft BPA and build this team. We are 50/50 right now. We are always going to be 1-2 plays from being 10-6 or 7-9 . Just a few more years. We will be there.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Glad we still have at least 9 more games to figure it out. As of now, I don't see any way he isn't on the team next year, even if gets franchised again.

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Brock Osweiler and Ryan Fitzpatrick performances not helping Cousins value. that's a good thing. Osweiler played like garbage last night

Re: Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

[quote=Bucket;1153432]20 million is the going rate for QB'S like Kirk though. I don't understand how fans don't get this yet.

Kirk is winning games, and our team direction is going up with him at QB. I just don't see how you replace that with McCoy or an unknown. When you are 20 million above the cap, and have 2 WR out the door on contract years to add another 10 million to that.

You pay Kirk who knows the offense and winning games. 11-5 in last 16 games, and you use 30 million to pay your own. Drafting defense player makers for the defense coming years. Like you have with the offense.[/quote]

I completely agree. Kirk, the player, is the right man for us at QB. Also, don't underestimate the value of Kirk, the man, to this team. His leadership on and off the field is helping to build this team. His public image is good for the franchise. This final point is key: Kirk has the motivation and character to continue to improve and give his all [U]after[/U] he is paid the big bucks. The franchise can [U]trust[/U] that he won't be spoiled by money and fame and lose his focus on doing the best job he can on the field. He's the whole package.

Yes, pay our own foundation players and build the defense, primarily through the draft. This was perfectly illustrated in our loss to the Lions. Kirk led us all the way back to take the lead with under 1 minute left but the D just didn't have the horses to hold it.

Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread
 

Simple formula
Sign all important qb
Keep staff together
Pay our own
Draft well
Stay the course!

Edit: this formula has us winning more than losing lately and we just started. You cannot go from a dumpster fire to perfect. You need to "improve" first. We are seeing that improvement. Just remember what we were. If you don't see improvement than you have a very short memory. HTTR!