Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1278485]Lol I love how a 24 year old signing a 150 million+ deal is dumb. What 24 year old is turning that down?[/quote]

Exactly. And also you have seen this trend of the superstar player having more leverage through a [B][U]slowly[/U][/B] weakening CBA. The owners still have the leverage over 90% of their players but every team has 2 - 3 players that have set themselves in the right place financially and contractually to have a lot more say in their employment even after they sign the contract. I think as good agents learn those loopholes and structures we are going to be seeing this more often from star players, especially on teams that have dysfunctional front offices.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Watson isn't going bankrupt lol get the F outta here

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1278487]It is also funny how some fans are basically rooting for a Bruce Allen type move by the Texans:

A team in rebuilding mode stubbornly holding on to a player, who obviously doesn't want to play for the team anymore, and giving up compensation that can be used to rebuild the team.[/quote]

I agree the Texans may be better off trading him than having the situation rot even more. But the difference is BA effed up the Kirk Cousins situation by 1) not signing him earlier 2) low balling him 3) not trading him when it was obvious he wasn't going to stay AND he was under the tag so was going to be lost for nothing.

Watson just signed a 5y contract making him the 2nd highest paid QB in the league, that gives the Texans leverage, and some legitimacy to say "we're not trading a 25 years old franchise QB we just signed to a 5yr contract".

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1278497]I agree the Texans may be better off trading him than having the situation rot even more. But the difference is BA effed up the Kirk Cousins situation by 1) not signing him earlier 2) low balling him 3) not trading him when it was obvious he wasn't going to stay AND he was under the tag so was going to be lost for nothing.

Watson just signed a 5y contract making him the 2nd highest paid QB in the league, that gives the Texans leverage, and some legitimacy to say "we're not trading a 25 years old franchise QB we just signed to a 5yr contract".[/quote]

Tricky situation. Gun to head, I'd trade him, just to move on. But I can totally see why Texans would want to hold onto him as well. The Texans have one of the best QB situations in the league, minus him trying to force a trade.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvpXBi9XUAkzLS7?format=jpg&name=900x900[/IMG]

Move up and grab our guy

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1278492]Exactly. And also you have seen this trend of the superstar player having more leverage through a [B][U]slowly[/U][/B] weakening CBA. The owners still have the leverage over 90% of their players but every team has 2 - 3 players that have set themselves in the right place financially and contractually to have a lot more say in their employment even after they sign the contract. I think as good agents learn those loopholes and structures we are going to be seeing this more often from star players, especially on teams that have dysfunctional front offices.[/quote]

Yeah plus it is not like he is going to a competitor and taking his money from Houston as well. He is holding out, not getting paid. It is the confines of the CBA. Under current constructs the CBA favors high value players and ownership. I think as long as they can keep their hold on most of their product they will tolerate a few headaches here and there. How many times has a hold out like this happened? Only a handful

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1278497][B]I agree the Texans may be better off trading him than having the situation rot even more. But the difference is BA effed up the Kirk Cousins situation by 1) not signing him earlier 2) low balling him 3) not trading him when it was obvious he wasn't going to stay AND he was under the tag so was going to be lost for nothing.[/B]

Watson just signed a 5y contract making him the 2nd highest paid QB in the league, that gives the Texans leverage, and some legitimacy to say "we're not trading a 25 years old franchise QB we just signed to a 5yr contract".[/quote]

You forgot to mention signing Alex Smith to a big $ extension so BA could prove he can sign QBs to extensions. IMO that big $ extension was the cherry on $hit sundae.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=irish;1278509]You forgot to mention signing Alex Smith to a big $ extension so BA could prove he can sign QBs to extensions. IMO that big $ extension was the cherry on $hit sundae.[/quote]

100%, and if we're going down that road, let's not forget how Alex' trade was made without any football people being informed nor asked for advise. Let's call that the puke topping laid over the cherry on our shit sundae.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1278499]Tricky situation. Gun to head, I'd trade him, just to move on. But I can totally see why Texans would want to hold onto him as well. The Texans have one of the best QB situations in the league, minus him trying to force a trade.[/quote]

I'm with you, with all the reasons to keep him, I think if one team is willing to put an absolute block-buster never seen before offer, you take it rather than dragging yourself into a lose-lose situation... Because if Deshaun starts sitting games, he'll lose money, but they'll lose trade leverage.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1278497]I agree the Texans may be better off trading him than having the situation rot even more. But the difference is BA effed up the Kirk Cousins situation by 1) not signing him earlier 2) low balling him 3) not trading him when it was obvious he wasn't going to stay AND he was under the tag so was going to be lost for nothing.

Watson just signed a 5y contract making him the 2nd highest paid QB in the league, that gives the Texans leverage, and some legitimacy to say "we're not trading a 25 years old franchise QB we just signed to a 5yr contract".[/quote]

Regardless of the situation with Cousins or Trent, Bruce Allen was stubborn and refused to acknowledge that it was better for the team to trade both players and he didn't.

Houston may have a star QB, but have no draft capital or cap space to build around Watson.

They are either going to have a bad 2021 season with no draft capital this year and Watson sitting out during the season OR have a bad 2021 season with extra first round picks in 2022 and 2023. I'd rather have the latter.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Watson knows Houston will suck for a few more years, they have no $$ and no draft picks. I'd want out too

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1278513]Regardless of the situation with Cousins or Trent, Bruce Allen was stubborn and refused to acknowledge that it was better for the team to trade both players and he didn't.[/QUOTE]

Or had he done the sensible thing and negotiated in good faith with both of them then we might have avoided the mess we've been in since signing Smith (not Smith's fault of course). Had we still had Cousins and TW in the locker room we might not have been SB contenders, but we'd likely be in playoff contention every year.

Houston actually seem to be headed in the direction we were when we should have resigned Cousins. At least they released Watt without any acrimony unlike BA and TW.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1278485]Lol I love how a 24 year old signing a 150 million+ deal is dumb. What 24 year old is turning that down?[/quote]

Watson was going to be wealthy regardless. You can't sign a mega deal and then turn around in less than a year and want out cause mgt doesn't consult w/ you.

If he truly wanted out and he saw warning signs then do what Cousins did.

Now Wilson is crying. Again he didn't have to sign a deal w/ Seattle. He could have played until his deal ended and then went to one year deals until it was too expensive for the team to keep him.

Wilson and Watson to me are cry babies. It ain't your job to pick players. Not your job to tell the owner what to do. Russ should give back some of his $ so Seattle can sign Trent if he wants a linemen so bad.

Cousins is brilliant and played the system to a tee. He held the team hostage. Not sure why other QB's don't do the same thing.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1278548]Watson knows Houston will suck for a few more years, they have no $$ and no draft picks. I'd want out too[/quote]

They are in a bad spot but it doesn't take 5 years to rebuild.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1278562]They are in a bad spot but it doesn't take 5 years to rebuild.[/quote]

Agree. The days of a years long rebuild are over. Its a win now league and coaches better start winning in year two or else its on the the next best thing.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

The expectation league-wide has been that Washington's starting QB for 2021 is not in the building. And when asking which teams have been most active in early QB carousel talks, Washington consistently comes up. Big next few weeks/months for WFT

Jeremy Fowler ESPN

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1278562]They are in a bad spot but it doesn't take 5 years to rebuild.[/quote]

It does when you’re down several first and second round picks due to previous trades.

WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

The Rams had a shitload of picks after RG3 and they never got good from those players. Houston could be really bad for a while. Watson wants to win


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=MissouriSkin;1278578]It does when you’re down several first and second round picks due to previous trades.[/quote]

Yeah, they are probably a minimum of two, maybe even three years away from being a contender in that division with Watson at QB.

The Jags will be in contention to win that division before Houston, unless they bite the bullet and try to trade him for a haul. Problem is, I don't see anyone giving up what they are asking.

The Jets would be dumb to do it. They are currently set up very nicely with all their draft picks (including #2) and the 2nd most cap space. That could be a very quick turnaround up there if they draft well, and fill some holes with pending free agents.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1278513]Regardless of the situation with Cousins or Trent, Bruce Allen was stubborn and refused to acknowledge that it was better for the team to trade both players and he didn't.

Houston may have a star QB, but have no draft capital or cap space to build around Watson.

They are either going to have a bad 2021 season with no draft capital this year and Watson sitting out during the season OR have a bad 2021 season with extra first round picks in 2022 and 2023. I'd rather have the latter.[/quote]

Agreed. This is why it's better to just deal a disgruntled player than call his bluff and have to put up with it until he does get dealt.

We could've gotten way more than a 3rd and a 5th for Trent and a third for Kirk if he had just acknowledged the inevitable and put them on the block. Not only does it make us look bad, in regards to Kirk here we are 3 seasons after he left and we've ran through umpteen qb's looking for his replacement.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=irish;1278509]You forgot to mention signing Alex Smith to a big $ extension so BA could prove he can sign QBs to extensions. IMO that big $ extension was the cherry on $hit sundae.[/quote]

The extension when trading for a proven qb is the status quo in the NFL. The days are gone where you trade for a quality qb and make him play out the rest of his deal before signing a new one (unless the guy just recently got a new long term deal in the last 2 years like Watson). A good qb is not going to agree to a trade with under 2 years left on his deal unless the trading team agrees to an extension too. Not to mention if you're the team trading for him, why would you not want to sign him to an extension? If you didn't believe in the guy or had doubts, why would you give up serious draft capital for them?

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1278580]Yeah, they are probably a minimum of two, maybe even three years away from being a contender in that division with [/quote]

Never would be a better estimate with that horrible owner at the helm.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Nothing wrong with evaluating all of the available QB’s and talking to the teams to see what they would want for them. WFT’s front office would not be doing its job if it did not explore all avenues for improvement. But we do not have to make a desperate move. Jeremy Fowler’s quote is a flawed assumption. We are not one of the NFL teams that is devoid of QB talent.
I feel like the WFT is finally in a position where we are 5 to 6 players away from being a really good team. The NFL has quickly become a league of average teams. There are little to no super teams any more due to salary cap and free agency.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210307/0e35c30f51fe8ea679a529c848799103.jpg[/IMG]

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1278560]Watson was going to be wealthy regardless. You can't sign a mega deal and then turn around in less than a year and want out cause mgt doesn't consult w/ you.

If he truly wanted out and he saw warning signs then do what Cousins did.

Now Wilson is crying. Again he didn't have to sign a deal w/ Seattle. He could have played until his deal ended and then went to one year deals until it was too expensive for the team to keep him.

Wilson and Watson to me are cry babies. It ain't your job to pick players. Not your job to tell the owner what to do. Russ should give back some of his $ so Seattle can sign Trent if he wants a linemen so bad.

Cousins is brilliant and played the system to a tee. He held the team hostage. Not sure why other QB's don't do the same thing.[/quote]

1. Spot on about the HOLES like Wilson and Watson.
2. Most QBs can't play the system the way Cousins did because their teams have competent or at least non-moron owners and GMs, LOL. The franchise tag is supposed to serve owners and keep best players from hitting true FA, only THE DAN could allow it to be turned against ownership, LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL. Epic duncery.
3. Let Wilson continue to get pummeled. Serves him right. Like all running QBs, he is losing a step as he ages. He sees the writing on the wall. Only a matter of time until he starts getting hit more and more and gets hurt badly. This is the fate of all running QBs without exception.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1278461]Watson has earned 40Million Cash so far. The Texans aren't bankrupting him.
[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210304/d296f2acc14bad01f60f1bcf3e8ea9cc.jpg[/IMG]

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

I'm not going to regurgitate my previous posts.
He has less than $20M after taxes agent fees and has easily blown at least $10M. I'd bet he has less than $5M in bank or short-term liquid assets by conventional balance sheet reckon. His $30M last year included $27M signing bonus prorated at $7.xM last year, $5.4M next four years. It is not salary he collected free and clear without obligation, like normal salary, it is a bonus against future performance, which is again why him holding out is so atrocious. He sits out games holding out, team can go after him for bonus, plus fine him just under $4M a year. So if he holds out and team goes after bonus, yes he will be bankrupt very quick, as I explained previous post, especially because he can't get the taxes he paid or agent fees he paid back. Wilson shows up week 11 next year, team can go after him for $3.375M of bonus, and he only gets about $4M in salary for 30% of season, which fines approach or exceed. So next year he would earn nothing or less than $1M in salary, and owe team $3.4M in bonus. Your post looks at raw income without the qualitative factor of what form of income it was. 68% of what Watson has earned is signing bonus, and he is on hook for huge percentage of that if he holds out.

But even if he doesn't go bankrupt, he has 5-8 years of top earning potential, the owners earn forever owning the team. Every year Watson holds out he is the big loser because his window of his prime is finite and closing. Houston will let him wither on the vine holding out, just on principle. Serves the turd right for signing a huge deal and then having no loyalty. McDonald's is always hiring. :-)

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1278511]I'm with you, with all the reasons to keep him, I think if one team is willing to put an absolute block-buster never seen before offer, you take it rather than dragging yourself into a lose-lose situation... Because if Deshaun starts sitting games, he'll lose money, but they'll lose trade leverage.[/quote]

But that's not how billionaires think. Especially not Texans ownership. They aren't caving ever. It is about real world up yours for screwing me, not about winning on the field.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1278456]No but your odds are surely increased drafting a QB high. A Tom Brady is a once in a generation find.

I still think at the end of the day, the Redskins Twitter and Social Media base are ravenous for a fix/winner/franchise QB, but as Ron’s history has shown, he’s going to play the calculated, methodical, fiscally responsible long game and not bet the farm on big name FAs like we have been known to do in this franchise for so long. We as a fan base have been conditioned to expect splash moves and don’t know how to handle the ups and downs without it. Ron’s not ready to pull the trigger on Deshaun or trading it all in for moving up to take a top 5 QB prospect. He’s going to continue to do his homework, draft well, pick up value free agents that fit what he’s looking for and fill a need, and continue to fill out the starting roster and depth so that when it’s time, and we are ready, he can go get that QB that puts us over the top.[/quote]

Yes, odds better high, but price of trading up to that spot not worth it.
And you don't have to hope for a 6th round franchise QB. There is a huge chasm of draft space between top-10 and 6th round. Lots of franchise QBs drafted late 1st round. Harder but far from impossible, especially with long term view. Sometime in the next 3 drafts a QB that turns out to be a franchise QB will be available to us in 1st or 2nd round, in historical statistical sense.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=MissouriSkin;1278578]It does when you’re down several first and second round picks due to previous trades.[/quote]

I disagree. Yeah they are at a disadvantage but 1st rounders miss all the time. They have the most important position taken care of.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Scalper;1278617][B]I'm not going to regurgitate my previous posts.[/B]
He has less than $20M after taxes agent fees and has easily blown at least $10M. I'd bet he has less than $5M in bank or short-term liquid assets by conventional balance sheet reckon. His $30M last year included $27M signing bonus prorated at $7.xM last year, $5.4M next four years. It is not salary he collected free and clear without obligation, like normal salary, it is a bonus against future performance, which is again why him holding out is so atrocious. He sits out games holding out, team can go after him for bonus, plus fine him just under $4M a year. So if he holds out and team goes after bonus, yes he will be bankrupt very quick, as I explained previous post, especially because he can't get the taxes he paid or agent fees he paid back. Wilson shows up week 11 next year, team can go after him for $3.375M of bonus, and he only gets about $4M in salary for 30% of season, which fines approach or exceed. So next year he would earn nothing or less than $1M in salary, and owe team $3.4M in bonus. Your post looks at raw income without the qualitative factor of what form of income it was. 68% of what Watson has earned is signing bonus, and he is on hook for huge percentage of that if he holds out.

But even if he doesn't go bankrupt, he has 5-8 years of top earning potential, the owners earn forever owning the team. Every year Watson holds out he is the big loser because his window of his prime is finite and closing. Houston will let him wither on the vine holding out, just on principle. Serves the turd right for signing a huge deal and then having no loyalty. McDonald's is always hiring. :-)[/quote]

Thank you.

I'd also like to add I kinda see Scalper's point here.

In a rational world with a rational owner, Cal McNair and Jack Easterby would realize they have an unhappy asset worth beaucoup assets, and they would open the trade market for him.

But McNair and Easterby seem to operate on Snyder/Allen lines. Are they petty enough to not even entertain offers? Yes. Will Watson sit out a year? Yes. In our situation with Trent, Snyder and co. blinked first. I think McNair and Easterby will too eventually, even if it's not this year.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=mooby;1278654]Thank you.

I'd also like to add I kinda see Scalper's point here.

In a rational world with a rational owner, Cal McNair and Jack Easterby would realize they have an unhappy asset worth beaucoup assets, and they would open the trade market for him.

But McNair and Easterby seem to operate on Snyder/Allen lines. Are they petty enough to not even entertain offers? Yes. Will Watson sit out a year? Yes. In our situation with Trent, Snyder and co. blinked first. I think McNair and Easterby will too eventually, even if it's not this year.[/quote]

I get Scalper's point, the owners have far more leverage. And it's true to a point. But, megastar players have shown that they can and will force their way off of a team. And the fact is, some team will be ready to sign Watson as soon as the door is cracked open. Watson knows it, and if that means he has to live off of a measly 3 million dollars this year, or the next two years even, he has said he is going to do that. In the meantime Houston loses out this year and loses trade value in the meantime.

Bottomline, yes bad ownership can fight the battle, and win a pyrrhic victory but the megastar players are learning that they can manipulate the market to get where they want to go to, even if it means a small setback up front.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

I get Scalper's point, but I still don't think he's in any danger of going broke. The team may go after his bonus, fine him, etc. However, he also has a dozen or more endorsements including Nike, Snickers, Rolex, and Beats by Dre...

He'll be fine financially, and I still think the organization will ultimately give in as long as there is a willing trade partner.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

"If the price is right, Sam Darnold's most likely destination is Washington" - Jeremy Fowler

I don't really hate it as long as it's not a 1 or 2

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1278728]"If the price is right, Sam Darnold's most likely destination is Washington" - Jeremy Fowler

I don't really hate it as long as it's not a 1 or 2[/QUOTE]

Unless they offer us a 1 or a 2 to take him off their hands? :)

Actually, would our 1st for their 2nd, 3rd and Darnold be feasible? We move down 13 slots but pick up an extra pick and a likely starting QB?

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1278728]"If the price is right, Sam Darnold's most likely destination is Washington" - Jeremy Fowler

I don't really hate it as long as it's not a 1 or 2[/quote]

my reaction to getting Darnold would be...

[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/images/36e3cf11e9fa4f3277d86ef6ed500e54/tenor.gif[/IMG]

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1278728]"If the price is right, Sam Darnold's most likely destination is Washington" - Jeremy Fowler

I don't really hate it as long as it's not a 1 or 2[/quote]

Listening to Sheehan he keeps saying over and over the going rate for Darnold will be a 1.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1278756]Unless they offer us a 1 or a 2 to take him off their hands? :)

Actually, would our 1st for their 2nd, 3rd and Darnold be feasible? We move down 13 slots but pick up an extra pick and a likely starting QB?[/quote]

They have no reason to make a deal like that. They have the luxury to wait until draft day, when teams are really desperate, and get a better deal.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=MTK;1278758]my reaction to getting Darnold would be...

[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/images/36e3cf11e9fa4f3277d86ef6ed500e54/tenor.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Haha I am not too excited but the only game I ever watched was when he played Washington and had la career day by the end of the first half.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

We are down to...

Darnold
Newton
Fitzmagic
Rookie

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1278764]We are down to...

Darnold
Newton
Fitzmagic
Rookie[/quote]

and

Marcus Mariota
Jameis Winston
Andy Dalton
Mitchell Trubisky
Tyrod Taylor
C.J. Beathard
Jacoby Brissett
Brandon Allen
Colt McCoy
Blake Bortles
Blaine Gabbert
Nathan Peterman
A.J. McCarron