Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=jamf;769575]What is your definition of a bust?
What level of play do you expect out of a second round linebacker?

I get the impression you want him to be Clay Matthews.[/quote]Competency = not a bust. There's a little bit of a curve at the top of a draft. A top five pick like Robert Gallery who needs to kick inside to have value is probably a draft bust. It's more acceptable for the 14th overall pick, such as Chris Williams, to kick inside to left guard in my mind. Maybe that's just me, since there's not much of a difference there, just about $15 million.

I think, if Rocky McIntosh was a competent but unspectacular starter, he could be labeled an overdraft. Considering his best days came in 2007, he's not an overdraft, he's a bust who has survived on a complete lack of depth.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;769579]Well, I could see Cooley gone, for a 3/4th so if we add that with the 5th and 6th we could get a 2nd. Of course if we gave up our 1st we could get 7 7ths, and than we could have wrapped up all the draft picks and still be home for dinner.

:cheeky-sm
:pimp:[/quote]Tight ends are the currency of passing offense. We should hold both the TEs and learn to get them both the ball. If they don't combine for 1,000 receiving yards and 8-10 TDs, that's on the coaches and the quarterback, not the TEs.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

I will also consider the fact that, with two down receiving years in a row, Cooley may simply be a player who is declining earlier than expected.

I do not think this is the case, I am merely watching for it. He might not be one of the 10 best receiving TEs in football anymore.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;770001]I will also consider the fact that, with two down receiving years in a row, Cooley may simply be a player who is declining earlier than expected.

I do not think this is the case, I am merely watching for it. He might not be one of the 10 best receiving TEs in football anymore.[/quote]

Despite being under utilized this year his numbers are still on pace to be the 2nd highest of his career (catches, yards) so how is he declining exactly?

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;770016]Despite being under utilized this year his numbers are still on pace to be the 2nd highest of his career (catches, yards) so how is he declining exactly?[/quote]Well, his catch rate, which peaked at 75% in 2008, dropped to 64% in 2009, and now sits around 60%, which is acceptable for a WR, but low for a TE.

That could simply be a product of his usage pattern, although, right now, his usage is "blocking" because we feel like we have better options to throw to, but no better options to protect with.

He also stopped scoring around 2007. Tight ends need to be red zone monsters. The last TD reception Cooley had inside the 10 yard line happened in [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200710070was.htm"]this game[/URL]. Or, not quite as recently as a Carlos Rogers pick six.

Early in his career, he was a money receiver from that close. It's safe to say now that Cooley is not a help to this team in terms of scoring TDs. We've struggled in the red zone for years, and unfortunately, our best red zone performance post-2005 came in the 10 games Cooley missed in 2009.

Still, we need to keep Cooley for what he can do, but he's not the guy you want to be throwing to deep in the red zone.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Interestingly, 6 of 7 of Fred Davis' career TDs have come from short distance, or inside the range I was looking for in terms of Chris Cooley's TDs.

These guys complement each other well, and though you might not have realized it, they're going to combine for more than 1,000 receiving yards this year. They're just not going to get near 8 combined TDs, and it's because of not enough Fred Davis at the goal line (though, he dropped that one on Sunday).

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Tough to blame CC when he's getting doubled in the RZ or when DM is skipping balls to him.

In 2008 his scoring dropped off, not sure you can say he started declining in just his 5th year. Scoring is a function of the offense and QB.

Witten doesn't score much either.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;770028]Tough to blame CC when he's getting doubled in the RZ or when DM is skipping balls to him.[/quote]Well, it's been longer than just the McNabb-era. Cooley scored 3 TDs while Zorn was the head coach and Campbell was the QB. And Campbell threw to the TE religiously. So does McNabb, really.

I think, to an extent, he's been the victim of being a last option dump-off under duress, where before he was a first-option type. At least, I feel that's the argument against personal decline. Maybe he's just finally succumb to offensive suckitude around him.

Like I said, I think we need to have two good TE's to be a strong modern offense. Cooley and Davis are both very good TEs. But, who knows, Cooley may never have positive trade value again, and Logan Paulsen could be an excellent complement to Fred Davis capable of going for 350 yards and 4 TDs a season as a no. 2 to Davis. It could happen.

I would NOT trade Chris Cooley in this offseason. But if he's actually in decline, the Falcons, Dolphins, Packers, and Cardinals all need a strong TE to run their offenses. There might be a market for him. And Paulsen's presence makes me not afraid anymore of stretching ourselves thin at the TE position with a trade. With Yoder, that was a different story. He was bad. Paulsen, I think, is a good player who will be in his second season next year. We just can't afford to increase his role beyond goal line and short yardage if Cooley and Davis are both still here.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;770028]Witten doesn't score much either.[/quote]Agreed. Although Witten has scored 6 times this year, he could be in decline as well, but he clearly is more of a blocker now than he was ever used as before. He's also a victim of too many weapons.

But I don't think he's a top three receiving option in the Dallas attack anymore.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

And I want to point out that Cooley's blocking this year has been beyond phenomenal. He's basically been of the quality of an offensive tackle out there. He's been a big part of the recovery of our OL's pass protection from 2008-09.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;770028]Tough to blame CC when he's getting doubled in the RZ or when DM is skipping balls to him.

In 2008 his scoring dropped off, not sure you can say he started declining in just his 5th year. Scoring is a function of the offense and QB.[/quote]

I'm with Matty on this one. Cooley is fckn great. Definitely our best offensive player. That being said I'm at the point where I think we have to trade him if the price is right. We have too many holes to fill.

I hate Fred Davis. Slowest TE I've ever seen. I'd take a 5th for him and be thrilled.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;770065]I'm with Matty on this one. Cooley is fckn great. Definitely our best offensive player. That being said I'm at the point where I think we have to trade him if the price is right. We have too many holes to fill.

I hate Fred Davis. Slowest TE I've ever seen. I'd take a 5th for him and be thrilled.[/quote]

Well, I dont think anyone we'll get in the 5th will replace these guys. I am all for trading guys who are worthless or we're not going to bother using (Hayensworth, McNabb)...but if we got a guy like Cooley, who can actually fill a need, I dont see the point in trading them, if it's just going to open up another hole... I think one of our biggest mistakes was not unloading Davis last year, when his stock was pretty high.... I know you're not screaming for Cooley to get traded or anything like that...but I just dont see the point in trading him for the sake of getting a 3rd or 4th round pick; when he's one of the few picks that has panned out.

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;770065]I'm with Matty on this one. Cooley is fckn great. Definitely our best offensive player. That being said I'm at the point where I think we have to trade him if the price is right. We have too many holes to fill.

I hate Fred Davis. Slowest TE I've ever seen. I'd take a 5th for him and be thrilled.[/quote]

Slowest relative to what? Corners and safeties?

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Matt Millen sold VC his Cliff Notes for the draft.........

Re: A look back at the 2008 draft
 

Davis had a much better 40 time than Cooley did coming out of college