Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

[quote=Paintrain;818792]Nah, I'm actually pretty happy with what we've done this offseason. We are going younger, future rather than bigger, now. I'd rather remain consistent than make a trade for Samuel which runs contrary to all of our other moves.[/quote]

Another great point...we've done a lot of work to cut our the older and declining players (like Samuel) from our roster to get younger.

Continuing that route can only benefit the team long-term. If we were one CB away from contention...go ahead and deal for Samuel (without giving up our starting RB). We're a few years away...better to go with youth.

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

it would be different if we are one player away from a super bowl,but we are'nt so we should just leave things as they are.

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;818649]Well, first, I think Torain is in that "traded because he won't make the team" category along with Holliday and Jarmon.....

[B]A runner who is useless to us[/B] and a third round pick seems like a good price for a guy who would be our no. 1 CB.[/quote]First off, in our current situation (rebuilding) no way I trade for Samuel.

I don't think Torain fits into the same category as VH and Jarmon. VH is an older player and we just signed two expensive FAs on the interior DL. VH was expendable. Jarmon doesn't fit our scheme, he's more of a 4-3 end, not big/strong enough to play 3-4 DE, not quick/mobile enough to play LB.

Torain has value for the Skins and is certainly not useless. Not sure why you're so down on him. He's a consistent runner who can move the chains and carry the ball 18-24 times per game. He had some very nice games for us last year. Doesn't appear to have a fumbling problem. Can get in the end zone. Doesn't get tripped up by long blades of grass (sorry, had to throw in a cheap shot at Portis). He averaged 4.5 YPC and the team average was 4.2 YPC. He and Hightower are the only two backs on the roster that have over 70 carries in the NFL (KW has 65 and only carried more than six times in an NFL game twice, those two games Torain was out). Torain was 13th in the NFL in YPC.

RT needs to work very hard on pass blocking, but if a RB has the "want to" he will improve his pass blocking. It can be taught.

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

Hmmm wonder if Darrell Green will come out of retirement... seems hes old but probably faster and better. or has a HoF member ever come back to play or are they not allowed after retiring for 5+yrs

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;818858][B]Torain has value for the Skins and is certainly not useless[/B]. Not sure why you're so down on him. [U]He's a consistent runner who can move the chains and carry the ball 18-24 times per game.[/U] He had some very nice games for us last year. Doesn't appear to have a fumbling problem. Can get in the end zone. Doesn't get tripped up by long blades of grass (sorry, had to throw in a cheap shot at Portis). He averaged 4.5 YPC and the team average was 4.2 YPC. He and Hightower are the only two backs on the roster that have over 70 carries in the NFL (KW has 65 and only carried more than six times in an NFL game twice, those two games Torain was out). Torain was 13th in the NFL in YPC.[/quote]I wasn't aware that someone that loses yardage on three out of ten carries can wear the "consistent" label. That's...a really, really low bar. In fact, 100% of NFL running backs qualify as consistent. No running play is a bad running play!

Well, okay. I'll halfheartedly buy the bolded argument. I don't see him as a Top 15 to 20 back in the league, but for this Skins team, fine. Someone has to carry the ball besides Helu.

Maybe I was wrong about Hightower. I suggested that Hightower was going to force Torain off the roster. Maybe its the opposite. Hightower will play on the punt team and cover kicks and that actually saves Torain's bacon.

Not an optimal use of our personnel, but if we're more focused on Torain's YPC average than doing what it takes to win, yeah, I could see that.

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

But it's not like we couldn't have found Jarmon a spot on this team if we really tried. Point is, we weren't going to really try: he was going to get cut. Torain may get the benefit of the doubt because he was a Shanahan acquisition (aka a "good player" in the eyes of the FO) instead of a Cerrato acquisition (not always a good player).

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;818921]But it's not like we couldn't have found Jarmon a spot on this team if we really tried. Point is, we weren't going to really try: he was going to get cut. Torain may get the benefit of the doubt because he was a Shanahan acquisition (aka a "good player" in the eyes of the FO) instead of a Cerrato acquisition (not always a good player).[/quote]

Well we tried finding Jarmon a spot on the field all season last year. Asked him to drop wait to play OLB, he didn't fit there, asked him to add weight to play 3-4 DE, he didn't fit there either. He's better as a 4-3 guy, he wasn't going to fit in here, so they offloaded him.

Torain was productive when he played. Even given that he lost yardage on some plays, he was still on track to rush for 1,200 yards if he played all 16 games. I'm less concerned with his production, which could go up with better offensive line play, and more with his health. But by no means is he a useless player. We're trying to build a core of guys, and to not give Torain a shot to be a starter given the fact that he was productive when he played in a bad situation.

And when Terrell Davis came to camp last season, he explained the situation perfectly; it's going to be an ugly one yarder, an ugly 4 yard gain, an ugly 2 yard, and then you're going to pop a big run. That's pretty much what happened with Torain last season.

Also, I'm not as high on Helu as others. For some reason, I feel like Royster's going to beat him out. Just the vibes I get coming out of camp tweets and the like.

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;818907]Hmmm wonder if Darrell Green will come out of retirement... seems hes old but probably faster and better. or has a HoF member ever come back to play or are they not allowed after retiring for 5+yrs[/quote]

Darrell Green has about the same chance of returning to the NFL - - the Redskins more specifically - - as an active player as Oprah Winfrey has of becoming an NFL running back.

The two operative words here are :
[INDENT]1. NOT

2. HAPPENING!![/INDENT]

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

I just saw the eagles signed Oprah

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

First I would ask my Defensive coach what he thought about him.. And after Haslett says he isn't a bump and run corner, and the fact that we blitz a ton and will again this year and the fact that Samuel plays off 10 to 12 yards every play and get dominated at the line if he plays close....I am sure he'd so NAH...we are good at corner

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

I would trade a 4th and 5th rounder but that is it.

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;818919]I wasn't aware that someone that loses yardage on three out of ten carries can wear the "consistent" label. That's...a really, really low bar. In fact, 100% of NFL running backs qualify as consistent. No running play is a bad running play![/quote]Torain actually had less than 1/5 runs as negative plays (18.2%) and most were for -1. As NLC mentioned, the negative runs are a nature of the ZB scheme. When the OL is taking lateral steps, sometimes folks get blown up into the backfield. And let's not forget our OL play last year would ceratinly be considered "less than stellar".

[quote]Well, okay. I'll halfheartedly buy the bolded argument. I don't see him as a Top 15 to 20 back in the league, but for this Skins team, fine. Someone has to carry the ball besides Helu.[/quote]As I mentioned, top 15 in YPC. Hard to argue that behind the Skins OL.

[quote]Not an optimal use of our personnel, but if we're more focused on Torain's YPC average than doing what it takes to win, yeah, I could see that.[/quote]Not sure who on our roster would be better carrying the ball than RT. No one has proven anything except for Hightower, and he's not an 18-24 carry per game back. Unless one of the youngsters performs tremendously in pre-season I don't see how the argument can be made that anyone other than RT should be the primary back.

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;819202]Torain actually had less than 1/5 runs as negative plays (18.2%) and most were for -1. As NLC mentioned, the negative runs are a nature of the ZB scheme. When the OL is taking lateral steps, sometimes folks get blown up into the backfield. And let's not forget our OL play last year would ceratinly be considered "less than stellar".

As I mentioned, top 15 in YPC. Hard to argue that behind the Skins OL.

Not sure who on our roster would be better carrying the ball than RT. No one has proven anything except for Hightower, and he's not an 18-24 carry per game back. Unless one of the youngsters performs tremendously in pre-season I don't see how the argument can be made that anyone other than RT should be the primary back.[/quote]Those numbers simply do not match the play by play for the season. Do you have a link? I don't have my notebook on me, but I think I had Torain at 27% or something. I did the comparison to Portis and Keiland Williams, and found that neither was anywhere close to Torain in terms of lost yardage. Unequivocally, I believe this to be a problem isolated to Torain, not a scheme or offensive line issue.

I don't care about his YPC when the distribution of runs sucks. Call me when he gets to 5.5. If he's anywhere as consistent as you say, adding a yard per carry should be a breeze. Just break like two long runs and cut out the 4 and 5 yard losses. At that point, he's one of the better RBs in the league.

I think any running back on our roster deserves a shot now that we've seen what Torain can do.

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

Dolphins signed Ronnie Brown...there goes the Torain trade. :D

Re: Pretend you are the Skins' GM...
 

no I would not. The backlash of being fleeced by Philly twice in Public opinion would most likely get me fired. I shopping the players in free agency who thought they'd have a deal by now.