Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884130]I don't remember saying signing big name FAs. I make the trade for the guy who I think will be the face of my franchise for the next 15 seasons. Fill my holes with smart FA signings like we have been doing. [B][U]You can stockpile all the picks you want but without a QB you'll be drafting in the top 10 every year[/U][/B]. Eventually you got to pull the trigger.[/quote]

I"m sorry. I missed the 49ers being in the top 10 in the draft this year.


Insanity is doing the same things over and over expecting different results. I figured you guys would have "gotten it" over this past decade but apparently you long for the Cerrato era back again. *sighs*

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884119]If RGIII is that franchise QB, I don't care about Riley Reiff, Manti Te'o, Alfonzo Denard, or Andersen "The Spider" Silva. A franchise QB makes all those holes disappear so I send my 1st rounder in 2012 and 2013, as well as a 3rd this year and a 4th next year for my QB and we are still left with:

2nd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 7th plus FA. You mean to tell me we can't fill holes with that? I don't want Manning.[/quote]To be clear though, it's not the quarterback that makes all those holes disappear, its the winning. And the holes are always going to be there. Doubly so if you don't do much winning.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Schneed10;884143]To me it's a no brainer. You take Peyton Manning and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

You get one of the very best quarterbacks in NFL history. You don't have to give up anything but money, so you still get to make all your picks and continue building the team through the draft in a sane fashion. And signing Manning buys you three years to find the QB of the long term future.

With Griffin, yes you get a very talented player who can make plays on the ground and in the air. But you sacrifice a ton of (high) picks to do so. This team still needs talent, we're not one player away, even if that single player is a potential franchise QB.

And in the end, Griffin is an unknown commodity. Sure he seems like he'll translate to the NFL, but so did Akili Smith and Jamarcus Russell and Tim Couch and Cade McNown and Ryan Leaf and on and on and on. To me, Manning's recovery is less of a question mark than whether Griffin will pan out. The stats don't lie, half of the QBs drafted in Round 1 become flops. So don't be so quick to dismiss that possibility with Griffin, I guarantee you the Bengals thought they had a good thing with Akili Smith, as did the Raiders with Russell.

If you want a precedent for this, look at Montana in Kansas City, they went to an AFC title game. Sometimes football is not that complicated. If the best player in NFL history (in my humble opinion) becomes available, you get him.

And think of it this way: if we miss on Griffin we're set back SIGNIFICANTLY in our efforts to return the team to the playoffs. If we miss on Manning and his neck doesn't pan out, at least we still will have filled our squad out with high picks. In the end, the downside with Manning is much less.[/quote]



Good case, but the money spent on Manning will hamper their ability to sign other free agents that could end up being as valuable, if not more, than some of their draft picks. His health is a legitimate concern at this point.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;884146]I"m sorry. I missed the 49ers being in the top 10 in the draft this year.





Insanity is doing the same things over and over expecting different results. I figured you guys would have "gotten it" over this past decade but apparently you long for the Cerrato era back again. *sighs*[/QUOTE]

Where did the 49ers pick in 2011? That's right 7th. Alex Smith had his best year as a pro, showed why he was drafted number 1 overall. All he needed was to have a coach believe in him. 49ers is a terrible example.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884092]It's not as simple as asking to choose between RGIII and Peyton. The real question is which package would you rather have?


Which would you choose?


[B][U]Package A:[/U][/B]

1) RGIII


[B][U]Package B:[/U][/B]
1) Peyton Manning (while using 3rd rounder to draft Kirk Cousins)
2) Reily Reiff -OT (1st)
3) Alfonso Denard-CB (2nd)
4) Lucas Nix -OG (4th)

5) Manti Te'o - ILB (2013 1st)
6) Orhian Johnson -SS (2013 4th)
[/quote]

Oh, in that case...package A, thank you.

Apart from the fact that you are guessing very high at the trade up cost, being overly optimistic in where Denard and Te'o will be drafted (won't we be picking later in the 1st with Peyton?) and ignoring where that 3rd would go if we didn't need Cousins (unless you are also suggesting [I]that[/I] goes in this colossal trade up). You are also conveniently leaving out the salary cap costs of Manning that could be spent elsewhere without him.

All that said, you are talking about a very narrow window in this pie-in-the-sky vision people have of Manning being healthy and unaffected by surgery, layoff or change of venue and somehow re-becoming the QB he was a few years ago (not to mention him apparently being able to make a mediocrity like Cousins into someone to build a future around thru some kind of osmosis). Even at that, someone has to draw the line at any level of optimism that has us putting a Super Bowl team around him in one offseason. So now we're looking at a window of opportunity that begins at a 37 year old and goes forward from there, for ...what? 2 years?

No thanks. I'll take my chances at a decade and a half of greatness leading our team. A all the way.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

If the Browns don't get Manning or Flynn, they're mos definitely going to draft RGIII if he falls to them. Publicly the browns have said that they're not committed to McCoy as their quarterback. They're looking at the best qb option possible, so there's no way RGIII falls past pick 4 without the browns getting their hopeful franchise qb in free agency. Even then theres still a good chance they draft RGIII anyway.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

... So if the redskins want RGIII then they better have hops cuz they're going to need to jump up to get him.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Lotus, biffle just gave you your amen.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I'll look at everyone elses after I offer my decision that way I'm not influenced.

Peyton is better then RGIII on any given Sun. Now the big question... will he be healthy enough to start come Sept.? To me doesn't matter. He's healthy he starts, he's not.... see if he is getting any better if not see if he would like to stay in the NFL and help out my son Kyle Shanahan.

Meanwhile I'm able to keep all my draft picks, get some weapons to put around whoever is at QB.

Next year with a full compliment of draft picks if PM was unable to play and whoever the backup was failed to get the job done..... I go all in to get to the first pick or second pick in 2013. Next year we will be in a better position to go all in sense we would have basically built up an OL, added some weapons, and only have a real need for QB on offense. Defense is almost set as long as we take a FS, ILB, and CB in this years draft then there shouldn't be a major need for any one spot other then QB next year.

Besides the coaching staff really liked Barkely anyway.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884148]Good case, but [B]the money spent on Manning will hamper their ability to sign other free agents[/B] that could end up being as valuable, if not more, than some of their draft picks. His health is a legitimate concern at this point.[/quote]
As far as I have seen. The latest number puts us at a projected 50m under the cap to sign our guys, acquire new FA's and sign draft picks.
To my knowledge from what has been reported in the media, Peyton is prepared to negotiate a Very Cap friendly deal. HEAVY in incentives. He is reportedly less concerned about the money than the situation into which he will play.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884148]Good case, but the money spent on Manning will hamper their ability to sign other free agents that could end up being as valuable, if not more, than some of their draft picks. His health is a legitimate concern at this point.[/quote]

Legitimate concern, sure. But the probability of preventing him from playing like himself is no greater than the probability of Robert Griffin flopping.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;884150]Where did the 49ers pick in 2011? That's right 7th. Alex Smith had his best year as a pro, showed why he was drafted number 1 overall. All he needed was to have a coach believe in him. 49ers is a terrible example.[/quote]

The 49ers didn't make it to the NFC championship due to Alex Smith tearing it up. They made it on the back of their defense and their running game while asking Alex Smith not to blow it. Granted, he had a huge playoffs, but that's about it. That team was stacked. They didn't sell the farm for one guy. They've built that team from the draft and supplemented via FA. Which is what good teams do.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Manning's contract would not be a concern from a cap standpoint given this team's recent commitment under Shanahan & Allen to rely on the draft moreso than free agency. Signing Manning to an incentive-laden deal would result in the team filling its needs through the draft, the way it should be done.

And even if the deal was an issue (which it wouldn't be), if Manning precludes us from going on a free agency spending splurge, isn't that a good thing? Did you guys just become Redskins fans last year or need I remind you of the lost decade of the 2000s?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884158]The 49ers didn't make it to the NFC championship due to Alex Smith tearing it up. They made it on the back of their defense and their running game while asking Alex Smith not to blow it. Granted, he had a huge playoffs, but that's about it. That team was stacked. [B]They didn't sell the farm for one guy. [/B]They've built that team from the draft and supplemented via FA. Which is what good teams do.[/quote]

They didn't have to sell the farm for one guy because they had the #1 overall pick to nab their QB.

I'm with Quake, the 49ers make a poor example of the point that you are trying to make.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;884158]The 49ers didn't make it to the NFC championship due to Alex Smith tearing it up. They made it on the back of their defense and their running game while asking Alex Smith not to blow it. Granted, he had a huge playoffs, but that's about it. That team was stacked. They didn't sell the farm for one guy. They've built that team from the draft and supplemented via FA. Which is what good teams do.[/QUOTE]

They have their QB. You gonna tell me they would get there with Rex Grossman? I know the strength of their team is defense and rushing attack, to say Alex Smith had nothing to do with it is crazy. They didn't have to sell the farm they were the worst team that year. We don't have that "luxury" of being the worst team so we need to take a risk and I feel RGIII is a risk worth taking. You don't, so we will just agree to disagree.