Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Yeah punch I'm actually in Virginia now at Fort lee for my job training school. I like VA it's nice but shit is expensive here lol

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=rocnrik;1094296]We could not get a third round pick for RGIII…He WILL NEVER be a good Starting QB..the strength of his game was what got him hurt..take that away and you got nothing…Colt McCoy at least understands the scheme…Its time to end the RGIII fiasco ..if I am wrong tell me this what other team in the NFL would RGIII start for??[/quote]

As much as I want Griffin III to have success, I think we have to look at 2012 as flash in the pan.....the way Griffin locks in on one receiver is the surest sign that he can't read coverages or understand defenses.....he hasn't developed hardly at all into a legitimate starting quarterback....the organization made a mistake in not only drafting him but throwing away the future for him....you don't take a quarterback 2nd overall in the draft if he didn't play in a pro style offense in college.....this is something that Shanahan knew which is why he wanted Ryan Tannehill instead.....not saying Griffin can't amount to something in the NFL, but he hasn't shown much since his rookie season......in 2012 the read option masked a great deal of his deficiencies that we didn't know that he had at the time......but the writing on the wall was there.....the Shanahan's used the read option because they knew that RG3 couldn't run a pro style offense.....and because his reading comprehension of defenses was poor...

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

It starts with the OL and DL we need to dedicate a draft or two to getting the trenches together. Regardless who plays QB or who the DC is calling plays without good protection and good pressure we will be a losing franchise. There multiple problems beyond RG3 but he has to play better period. Losing Trent today played a huge part in him being comfortable, he is the best player on the OL. No excuses for RG3 but you could see it.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;1094310]It starts with the OL and DL we need to dedicate a draft or two to getting the trenches together. Regardless who plays QB or who the DC is calling plays without good protection and good pressure we will be a losing franchise. There multiple problems beyond RG3 but he has to play better period. Losing Trent today played a huge part in him being comfortable, he is the best player on the OL. No excuses for RG3 but you could see it.[/quote]

I have tried to make this point but it wont get through. QB and Safety are the only positions that matter to most on this board.

People here are saying that spread offense QB's dont develop in the NFL. Thats just flat out wrong. There are plenty that developed properly behind a good OL. There are none that developed properly behind a terrible one.

I have been an RG3 defender, and will still defend him. Having said that, RG3 is already starting to do the same things that Patrick Ramsey did when he was getting killed behind a weak offensive line (jumpy feet, patting the ball like it was a hot potato, locking in on one receiver and praying he would get open). RG3 could have been developed into a quality QB behind a good OL... And Tom Brady could have been ruined behind a bad one.

But hey... Who needs an OL when all it takes is a QB and a safety or two to win the SB.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

This is what I think of Griffin's issues:

He hasn't been the same since he got injured:

He's playing scared and lacks confidence/swagger

He could hide his flaws with his speed before, he's slowed down due to injury and doesn't have that option now

Shitty protection from OL

Lack of experience in a pro style offense

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1094306]Yeah punch I'm actually in Virginia now at Fort lee for my job training school. I like VA it's nice but shit is expensive here lol[/QUOTE]


Ahh sweet. Congrats!

Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1094313]I have tried to make this point but it wont get through. QB and Safety are the only positions that matter to most on this board.



People here are saying that spread offense QB's dont develop in the NFL. Thats just flat out wrong. There are plenty that developed properly behind a good OL. There are none that developed properly behind a terrible one.



I have been an RG3 defender, and will still defend him. Having said that, RG3 is already starting to do the same things that Patrick Ramsey did when he was getting killed behind a weak offensive line (jumpy feet, patting the ball like it was a hot potato, locking in on one receiver and praying he would get open). RG3 could have been developed into a quality QB behind a good OL... And Tom Brady could have been ruined behind a bad one.



But hey... Who needs an OL when all it takes is a QB and a safety or two to win the SB.[/QUOTE]


How do you explain the fact that Griff completely misses (not with his arm, but his effin eyes), wide open wr's alot? The dude doesnt read the field properly whether he has time or not.
Im not going to sit here and say our OL isnt shit because it is. However Im certainly not going to sit here and talk about how Griff is just a guard and a tackle away from being Tom Brady.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1094298]5 of the last 6 years the skins have started 3-6 lmao! What a POS joke

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/brian-mitchell-goes-redskins-postgame-rant]Brian Mitchell goes off on Redskins in postgame rant | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url]

Agree 100%[/quote]

Preach it B Mitch!! Two weeks to prepare for a 1-8 Shitty Bucs team and get blown out. wtf losers lose thats what they do.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094316]How do you explain the fact that Griff completely misses (not with his arm, but his effin eyes), wide open wr's alot? The dude doesnt read the field properly whether he has time or not.
Im not going to sit here and say our OL isnt shit because it is. However Im certainly not going to sit here and talk about how Griff is just a guard and a tackle away from being Tom Brady.[/quote]

No one is a guard or tackle away from being Tom Brady. It still does not change the fact that new QB's develop better with a better OL. Everyone wants a new QB but why will that matter? It will be the same song and dance that we have dealt with for 20 years.

You cannot develop a good QB with a crappy OL. Why get a new QB only to ruin him as well? We can spend 5 draft picks a year on QB's and still wont find one with the OL that we keep putting out there.

To your opening question. Its very simple.

WE... NEVER... DEVELOPED... HIM... AS... AN... NFL... QB...

Seriously, you guys should go back and look at the great QB's first few years in the league. They missed a crap ton of throws as well, both with their arms and their eyes. The main difference... While they missed them, they had the ability to see the play develop and actually learn something because they had an OL that was competent. Its called developing a QB. We have yet to try it in several decades.

No I dont want a new QB because that QB will fail as well. Only a Brady or Rodgers will have any success on our team, even then, it wont be a SB or deep playoff run. But those guys have already been developed. Luck would flat out suck on our team. Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick wouldnt even be called QB's if they played on our team. None of those three would ever be anything in this league without a team that helped to develop them (and lets face it, Wilson and Kaepernick both suck as anything other than a running QB).

Until we choose to develop a QB properly, the whole get a new QB conversation that we have had for two decades will continue for two more decades. Its a pointless conversation to have. Why people, who claim to know the sport, cant see that is beyond me. Aaron Rodgers wont be a free agent any time soon so developing a QB (You know like GB did, or NE did, or the Colts have done multiple times) is our only option. And that wont happen with Trent Williams being our only good OL.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Skinzman;1094324]No one is a guard or tackle away from being Tom Brady. It still does not change the fact that new QB's develop better with a better OL. Everyone wants a new QB but why will that matter? It will be the same song and dance that we have dealt with for 20 years.

You cannot develop a good QB with a crappy OL. Why get a new QB only to ruin him as well? We can spend 5 draft picks a year on QB's and still wont find one with the OL that we keep putting out there.

To your opening question. Its very simple.

WE... NEVER... DEVELOPED... HIM... AS... AN... NFL... QB...

Seriously, you guys should go back and look at the great QB's first few years in the league. They missed a crap ton of throws as well, both with their arms and their eyes. The main difference... While they missed them, they had the ability to see the play develop and actually learn something because they had an OL that was competent. Its called developing a QB. We have yet to try it in several decades.

No I dont want a new QB because that QB will fail as well. Only a Brady or Rodgers will have any success on our team, even then, it wont be a SB or deep playoff run. But those guys have already been developed. Luck would flat out suck on our team. Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick wouldnt even be called QB's if they played on our team. None of those three would ever be anything in this league without a team that helped to develop them (and lets face it, Wilson and Kaepernick both suck as anything other than a running QB).

Until we choose to develop a QB properly, the whole get a new QB conversation that we have had for two decades will continue for two more decades. Its a pointless conversation to have. Why people, who claim to know the sport, cant see that is beyond me. Aaron Rodgers wont be a free agent any time soon so developing a QB (You know like GB did, or NE did, or the Colts have done multiple times) is our only option. And that wont happen with Trent Williams being our only good OL.[/quote]

Looks like what I wanted to say has been said. People will never get it man.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

I can't believe the overall tone of this thread is supportive of Jay Gruden. He's been terrible.

Griffin has not lived up to his reputation and I'm starting to wonder if he ever will.

But I have not seen Jay Gruden do anything offensively to give us a strategic advantage other than launch it deep to DeSean Jackson. His version of the zone blocking scheme has resulted in sub-par running from Alfred Morris despite running behind mostly the same line as the Shanahans had. If anything this line should be better.

Pierre Garcon has turned from one of the most reliable receivers in the league into a complete afterthought.

Gruden's team was completely unprepared yesterday. And as for the matter of Griffin, his poor development falls at the feet of the head coach, like it or not. He was brought in to get Robert going in the right direction. He's going in the wrong direction.

I wouldn't make any rash moves. I'd keep Jay and Robert together through Robert's rookie contract. But if they don't both get it in gear then I'd completely clean house.

I'm completely unimpressed by Jay Gruden.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Schneed10;1094353]I can't believe the overall tone of this thread is supportive of Jay Gruden. He's been terrible.

Griffin has not lived up to his reputation and I'm starting to wonder if he ever will.

But I have not seen Jay Gruden do anything offensively to give us a strategic advantage other than launch it deep to DeSean Jackson. His version of the zone blocking scheme has resulted in sub-par running from Alfred Morris despite running behind mostly the same line as the Shanahans had. If anything this line should be better.

Pierre Garcon has turned from one of the most reliable receivers in the league into a complete afterthought.

Gruden's team was completely unprepared yesterday. And as for the matter of Griffin, his poor development falls at the feet of the head coach, like it or not. He was brought in to get Robert going in the right direction. He's going in the wrong direction.

I wouldn't make any rash moves. I'd keep Jay and Robert together through Robert's rookie contract. But if they don't both get it in gear then I'd completely clean house.

I'm completely unimpressed by Jay Gruden.[/quote]

I agree with you to an extent, but the FO and management hasnt let Gruden do the things he's wanted. THE MOST IMPORTANT IS CHOSE HIS OWN COACHING STAFF. What dumb fucking FO doesnt let a head coach chose his own staff.

Im done with Bruce as a GM. Im done with both O and D coordinators and our Oline coach.

Some people need to be fired in the FO as well.

Jay needs more time, but its far far from his fault.

Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

J is an errand boy sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill. Sorry but that scene from Apocalypse Now came to mind.
I totally agree with you btw.
Edit:meant to quote chicos post above.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Chico23231;1094356]I agree with you to an extent, but the FO and management hasnt let Gruden do the things he's wanted. THE MOST IMPORTANT IS CHOSE HIS OWN COACHING STAFF. What dumb fucking FO doesnt let a head coach chose his own staff.

Im done with Bruce as a GM. Im done with both O and D coordinators and our Oline coach.

Some people need to be fired in the FO as well.

Jay needs more time, but its far far from his fault.[/quote]

There is only one reason a player or coach would ever come to a dysfunctional organization like the Redskins and that's for a payday. Any player or coach with an ounce of desire to win a championship would never sign on to this loser organization.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Schneed10;1094353]I can't believe the overall tone of this thread is supportive of Jay Gruden. He's been terrible.

Griffin has not lived up to his reputation and I'm starting to wonder if he ever will.

But I have not seen Jay Gruden do anything offensively to give us a strategic advantage other than launch it deep to DeSean Jackson. His version of the zone blocking scheme has resulted in sub-par running from Alfred Morris despite running behind mostly the same line as the Shanahans had. If anything this line should be better.

Pierre Garcon has turned from one of the most reliable receivers in the league into a complete afterthought.

Gruden's team was completely unprepared yesterday. [B]And as for the matter of Griffin, his poor development falls at the feet of the head coach, like it or not. He was brought in to get Robert going in the right direction. He's going in the wrong direction.
[/B]
I wouldn't make any rash moves. I'd keep Jay and Robert together through Robert's rookie contract. But if they don't both get it in gear then I'd completely clean house.

I'm completely unimpressed by Jay Gruden.[/quote]

When do we get to the point and realize that Griffin probably isn't good enough? I don't care if you bring back Bill Walsh from the grave, if a guy just isn't good enough then it may be time to go in another direction.

If McCoy or Cousins played yesterday, we don't take all those sacks, we hit some of the open wr's in the intermediate game. Yeah there may have been a couple of picks and what not, but at least we'd have a functional offense where the wr's and TE's can have a chance to make plays. Griffin left so many plays out on the field yesterday simply because he has no idea how to run a pro offense.