Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]We were 10-6 this year so how do you get the 8 wins when Ramsey was not the starter and what QB's do you have in that mix a couple of Spurier boys.[/QUOTE]



Over the same span when Ramsey was started, meaning 2002 -4, he was better than Spurrier's boys, who knew the system better than Ramsey, and better than Brunell in 2004.

Since Ramsey's only 2005 start was the Chicago win, we have no basis for comparing him to Brunell this past season.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I think Ramsey will bring much more than a 6th rounder.

A 2nd rounder would be ideal but is probably unlikely.

A 3rd or a 4th is pretty reasonable. At this point I'd take what I could get for him... he deserves the chance to start new somewhere else and he's outta here after this year anyway.[/QUOTE]

If Ramsey will sign an extension with our trade partner, I think you are on the money.

Brees and Culpepper cloud the picture but if their teams aren't going to protect them, coming off surgeries, maybe they know something. There's no health question mark after Ramsey's name.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I think Ramsey will bring much more than a 6th rounder.

A 2nd rounder would be ideal but is probably unlikely.

A 3rd or a 4th is pretty reasonable. At this point I'd take what I could get for him... he deserves the chance to start new somewhere else and he's outta here after this year anyway.[/QUOTE]


I am torn with the decision to trade him, first I as you know believe he should be starting, I also believe that if Campbell is asked to run the team next season we are sunk for the year while he learns. But I do agree that Patrick has earned the right to move on, he could have really forced the issue last season and become a real distraction for the team, and know one would have blamed him, but he didn't, he towed the company line and for the sake of the team he clamed up, but I don't believe after what happened to him last year that there is a promise that Gibbs could make to him to make him happy in DC, not even if Gibbs told him he was his starter going into this season, I doubt Patrick would trust him. Yet if someone would tell you today that Brunell was going down for the season in the first game, would you then trade Ramsey now for anything less than a second? I wouldn't trade him for a late first round pick knowing that.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

If someone told me today that Brunell would miss the majority of next year and Campbell was forced into action I'd rather live with that over seeing Ramsey play a lame duck season.

Campbell is the future, Ramsey's future with the team is over.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]If someone told me today that Brunell would miss the majority of next year and Campbell was forced into action I'd rather live with that over seeing Ramsey play a lame duck season.

Campbell is the future, Ramsey's future with the team is over.[/QUOTE]


There is a lot of support for a player [Campbell] who is yet to take a snap in the NFL, compared to a player who when Gibbs arrived, and before he announced he was going after Brunell, most here as well as around the NFL believed that Patrick would become a very good QB in the NFL once he got away from the SS protection schemes. To bad he never recieved a fair shot at proving that.

Campbell? Well what we hear coming out in practice sounds great, but anyone with athletic ability can look good in practice, Vinney testaverde would still put most QB's to shame in practice, playing and reading defenses in live action that's a whole nother ball game, I hope it works out but to many people believe this kid is something special based on 1 good senior year in college, the NFL is a long way from Auburn and a pro-bowl backfield.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Campbell? Well what we hear coming out in practice sounds great, but anyone with athletic ability can look good in practice, Vinney testaverde would still put most QB's to shame in practice, playing and reading defenses in live action that's a whole nother ball game, I hope it works out but to many people believe this kid is something special based on 1 good senior year in college, the NFL is a long way from Auburn and a pro-bowl backfield.[/QUOTE]

Well, there's only one way we're going to find out.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72][QUOTE=offiss]Campbell? Well what we hear coming out in practice sounds great, but anyone with athletic ability can look good in practice, Vinney testaverde would still put most QB's to shame in practice, playing and reading defenses in live action that's a whole nother ball game, I hope it works out but to many people believe this kid is something special based on 1 good senior year in college, the NFL is a long way from Auburn and a pro-bowl backfield.[/QUOTE]

Well, there's only one way we're going to find out.[/QUOTE]
Especially since he'll be playing in Washington with a Pro Bowl backfield (Portis/Cooley '07).

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]Especially since he'll be playing in Washington with a Pro Bowl backfield (Portis/Cooley '07).[/QUOTE]


Theres a slight difference, when you have pro bowl caliber players in a college backfield compared to NFL pro bowl backfield. Campbell had 2 of the best backs in college behind him, Portis is NOT a top 5 back in the NFL!

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Theres a slight difference, when you have pro bowl caliber players in a college backfield compared to NFL pro bowl backfield. Campbell had 2 of the best backs in college behind him, Portis is NOT a top 5 back in the NFL![/QUOTE]

he only had one pro bowl type RB is college.

name the 5 best in the nfl please... i'll spot you LT... johnson and alexander can be put up there, but i think anyone behind those lines is going to have crazy numbers (great QB play on both teams too).

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]he only had one pro bowl type RB is college.

name the 5 best in the nfl please... i'll spot you LT... johnson and alexander can be put up there, but i think anyone behind those lines is going to have crazy numbers (great QB play on both teams too).[/QUOTE]


You can tac on T.Barber, and E.James, I would add C.Dillion as well.

C.Martin, J.Lewis, P.Holmes, and D.Mcalister have been better up until this past season.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]You can tac on T.Barber, and E.James, I would add C.Dillion as well.

C.Martin, J.Lewis, P.Holmes, and D.Mcalister have been better up until this past season.[/QUOTE]

dillion had 700 rushing yards... you're talking crazy :P I agree on tiki though and possibly edge, that puts him at 5th-6th though.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Portis was 4th in the NFL in rushing last year, so based on that yes he is a top 5 back!

What more do we want from the guy??

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Gibbs raves about his pass-blocking and physicality which are often overlooked. He is definitely top 5

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]You can tac on T.Barber, and E.James, I would add C.Dillion as well.

C.Martin, J.Lewis, P.Holmes, and D.Mcalister have been better up until this past season.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. With the exception of LT, I'd take Portis over any back in the league. Portis is young, a great blocker, a great receiver, a great teammate, and most of all, a great runner. Just about every other back is missing something that Portis has.


Larry Johnson is a close one, but his receiving and pass-blocking skills are sub-par. Johnson looks like a great runner, but I can't say he's better than Portis. Plus, Johnson is running behind the best offensive line in the league.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. With the exception of LT, I'd take Portis over any back in the league. Portis is young, a great blocker, a great receiver, a great teammate, and most of all, a great runner. Just about every other back is missing something that Portis has.


Larry Johnson is a close one, but his receiving and pass-blocking skills are sub-par. Johnson looks like a great runner, but I can't say he's better than Portis. Plus, Johnson is running behind the best offensive line in the league.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I don't think I've seen anyone play harder than Portis (execpt Butkis or LT and even then the only evidence I have of that is highlights). Everything can't be measured in yards. Remember in 2004 LT had a 3.9 ypc average and everyone (including myself) still thought he was the man. So just b/c Portis didn't average 4.5 ypc doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to be talked about as an elite runner (Top 5).

Another thing, I don't think people realized the fact that Clinton had to get used to having 20 extra pounds on his frame. Remember hes been playing since his days at Miami at about 190. The fact that he wasn't a dumb ass and said something like 'Oh man, I don't need to change my style. This is how I run and its worked then so why won't it work now?' Instead Gibbs and him met halfway. As a matter of fact it looked for a while like they were going to pass each other. Gibbs added more speed based plays and Portis tried to become a power runner. Just the fact that Portis was willing to sacrafice his style for the good of the team attest to what a great teammate he is.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]dillion had 700 rushing yards... you're talking crazy :P I agree on tiki though and possibly edge, that puts him at 5th-6th though.[/QUOTE]


You can't alway's measure a back by his yards, if I needed a back for 1 game I would take Dillion over Portis, Dillion can make yards with very little blocking, and he will run players over without blinking an eye, I am not grading them on just last seasons stats, but what they are capable of when healthy under normal circumstances, besides yards per carry are more important to me than overall yardage.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]You can't alway's measure a back by his yards, if I needed a back for 1 game I would take Dillion over Portis, Dillion can make yards with very little blocking, and he will run players over without blinking an eye, I am not grading them on just last seasons stats, but what they are capable of when healthy under normal circumstances, besides yards per carry are more important to me than overall yardage.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but Portis was worn down at the end of the year. Not a lot of backs could have taken the beating he sustained at the end of the year.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]You can't alway's measure a back by his yards, if I needed a back for 1 game I would take Dillion over Portis, Dillion can make yards with very little blocking, and he will run players over without blinking an eye, I am not grading them on just last seasons stats, but what they are capable of when healthy under normal circumstances, besides yards per carry are more important to me than overall yardage.[/QUOTE]

dillon hit the wall like S davis this year. he's done. If you'd pick him up for a game over portis now, i think you'd have a much higher chance of losing.

YPC also depends a lot on scheme and line quality. dillon was terrible there as well (rocking a 3.5).

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]You can't alway's measure a back by his yards, if I needed a back for 1 game I would take Dillion over Portis, Dillion can make yards with very little blocking, and he will run players over without blinking an eye, I am not grading them on just last seasons stats, but what they are capable of when healthy under normal circumstances, besides yards per carry are more important to me than overall yardage.[/QUOTE]
Is there anyone on the Redskins offense that you actually like? You've been outspoken against Brunell, now ripping Portis, what's next, Moss would be better if he had 14 fingers so he wouldn't drop as many passes?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Portis carried this offense down the stretch last year and he was one of the main reasons we won 5 in a row to get to the playoffs. If you can't appreciate that you just can't appreciate a quality football player.

Offiss, you're right you can't always measure a back by his stats, but I don't think there's another back in this league that does as much as Portis does when he doesn't have the ball. He's one of the best backfield blockers I've ever seen. He always gives maximum effort and he's one of the toughest guys around, how many times did we see him limp out of a game last year only to return a few plays later?

He earned every penny of his salary last year and then some. A team record 1516 yards, 4th in the NFL in rushing, 9 games over 100 yards, 4.3 yards per carry, 11 touchdowns, 30 catches... I'm not sure what else you could want from him, but he's definitely a top back in this league who is still very underappreciated by some fans.

If you can't get on board with Clinton Portis, I really don't understand what you're watching. I know it stinks to have to suck it up once in a while and admit a Gibbs move panned out as planned despite what your thoughts on the matter might have been, but in this instance I think there's no denying Portis has proved to be a quality player for us.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]You can't alway's measure a back by his yards, if I needed a back for 1 game I would take Dillion over Portis, Dillion can make yards with very little blocking, and he will run players over without blinking an eye, I am not grading them on just last seasons stats, but what they are capable of when healthy under normal circumstances, besides yards per carry are more important to me than overall yardage.[/QUOTE]

the two things joe gibbs stresses that he loves about clinton portis are his pass-blocking and physicality. gibbs is not wrong, you are.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Portis carried this offense down the stretch last year and he was one of the main reasons we won 5 in a row to get to the playoffs. If you can't appreciate that you just can't appreciate a quality football player.

Offiss, you're right you can't always measure a back by his stats, but I don't think there's another back in this league that does as much as Portis does when he doesn't have the ball. He's one of the best backfield blockers I've ever seen. He always gives maximum effort and he's one of the toughest guys around, how many times did we see him limp out of a game last year only to return a few plays later?

He earned every penny of his salary last year and then some. A team record 1516 yards, 4th in the NFL in rushing, 9 games over 100 yards, 4.3 yards per carry, 11 touchdowns, 30 catches... I'm not sure what else you could want from him, but he's definitely a top back in this league who is still very underappreciated by some fans.

If you can't get on board with Clinton Portis, I really don't understand what you're watching. I know it stinks to have to suck it up once in a while and admit a Gibbs move panned out as planned despite what your thoughts on the matter might have been, but in this instance I think there's no denying Portis has proved to be a quality player for us.[/QUOTE]I love Portis and all he has brought to the game. Remember late in the season (I'm not sure who we were playing) but Portis meet a blitzer in the middle of the line and knock him out of the game. After the O was off the field he was on the sidelines telling everyone how he leveled that player. He got injured on that play but keep on playing. I think he has realy started to like playing smash mouth football. If I had one thing that I would like to see him do next year is break some big ones for TD's as of todate I can only remember the one against Tampa. Don't get me wrong he has had some big plays for TD's just not the long 60 to 70 yard quick TD's.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]I love Portis and all he has brought to the game. Remember late in the season (I'm not sure who we were playing) but Portis meet a blitzer in the middle of the line and knock him out of the game. After the O was off the field he was on the sidelines telling everyone how he leveled that player. He got injured on that play but keep on playing. I think he has realy started to like playing smash mouth football. If I had one thing that I would like to see him do next year is break some big ones for TD's as of todate I can only remember the one against Tampa. Don't get me wrong he has had some big plays for TD's just not the long 60 to 70 yard quick TD's.[/QUOTE]

43yarder on the bears (drive stalled after that though), and a 47yarder on STL. longest run of the season :(

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]Is there anyone on the Redskins offense that you actually like? You've been outspoken against Brunell, now ripping Portis, what's next, Moss would be better if he had 14 fingers so he wouldn't drop as many passes?[/QUOTE]


Of coarse but know one wants to acknowledge the praises I have for certain players, they only want to hear about the negativity of some.

Bottom line most of the opposition to my point about Portis just proves that many here want to remain blind to the truth, they continue to look at our team through burgandy and gold glasses, refusing to acknowledge reality, and the reality is he is not a top 5 back period. If anyone thinks that he's better than the 5 guy's I mentioned, then take off the burgandy and gold glasses.

If you want to say he's a top 5 blocker in the backfield? By all means, but we could have gotten a cheap h-back to do that.

Kind of funny but Rock looked better than Portis running the ball when he had a chance, I will put the label of durable on Portis which allows him to compile stats, but he's not a top 5 back.


Here's a list of players I do like.

Ramsey, Cooley, Moss, Jansen, Thomas, Betts, Washington, Clemons, Taylor, Clark, Salavea, Griffen, Rogers, Springs.

I am up in the air about Samuels, Dockery, Rabach, Marshall - [who I do like but think we can upgrade].

Players I defiently don't like, Brunell, Arrington.

The rest serve a purpose for depth, can't get on them.

I still believe we gave up to much for Portis and could have similar results with other backs but his durability has made him palatable, he has transformed himself into a different type of runner since he left Denver, steroids can do wonders.

But he is not better than, Alexander, Johnson, James, Tiki, or Thomalison, and when healthy Mcalaster.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss] he has transformed himself into a different type of runner since he left Denver, steroids can do wonders.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I think your full of it. Show us facts to back up your accusations.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

C'mon now, steroids??

Now things are really getting ridiculous around here.

Definitely not cool to throw a statement like that around without a solid basis either.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

One game is hardly a solid basis for judging a player.

In the case of Cartwright, he exploded on a weak-ass Rams run defense... so what?

In other games he didn't do much out of the ordinary.

Chiefs: 4 carries, 14 yards, 1 crucial fumble
49ers: 5 carries 14 yards, 1 TD
Raiders: 3 carries, 6 yards, 1 catch, 17 yards
Cowboys: 3 carries, 13 yards, 1 catch, 8 yards

15 carries, 47 yards, 3.1 per carry... that's all he did outside of the 9 carry, 118 yard performance against the Rams. Nothing to really get too excited over.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

I like Cartwright, but there is no comparison between Portis and Cartwright.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]You can't alway's measure a back by his yards, if I needed a back for 1 game I would take Dillion over Portis, Dillion can make yards with very little blocking, and he will run players over without blinking an eye, I am not grading them on just last seasons stats, but what they are capable of when healthy under normal circumstances, besides yards per carry are more important to me than overall yardage.[/QUOTE]

It's impossible to take you seriously. Your knowledge of the NFL is atrocious.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]It's impossible to take you seriously. Your knowledge of the NFL is atrocious.[/QUOTE]

And it seems to only be getting worse.

Portis on roids?

Are you drunk, offiss?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

I invented the question mark!

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]C'mon now, steroids??

Now things are really getting ridiculous around here.

Definitely not cool to throw a statement like that around without a solid basis either.[/QUOTE]


Baisis? How bout 15 lbs of muscle in 6 months. Not that he's doing anything different from anyone else in the league, allowing himself the same advantages as other players is fair play, even if they are all cheating. Steroids, growth hormones, etc.are a way of life in the NFL, it's just a fact!

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Baisis? How bout 15 lbs of muscle in 6 months. Not that he's doing anything different from anyone else in the league, allowing himself the same advantages as other players is fair play, even if they are all cheating. Steroids, growth hormones, etc.are a way of life in the NFL, it's just a fact![/QUOTE]

Dude, you are so off...way out of abounds.

It's just a fact? Where is the evidence?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

It's days like this I miss my old buddy, the cigarette.

:Smoker:

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Baisis? How bout 15 lbs of muscle in 6 months. Not that he's doing anything different from anyone else in the league, allowing himself the same advantages as other players is fair play, even if they are all cheating. Steroids, growth hormones, etc.are a way of life in the NFL, it's just a fact![/QUOTE]

OMG.

So what else is true according to Offiss? 23 TDs and 10 INTs is a lousy season, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter really is butter, woodchucks can and do chuck wood often, someone named Jenny really does answer when you dial 867-5309, you'll pay a lot for a muffler at Meineke, and the Matrix really does have you.

Ass. You're just making sh*t up, Offiss.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]And it seems to only be getting worse.

Portis on roids?

Are you drunk, offiss?[/QUOTE]


Kind of funny when you opposed me on david boston and roids a couple of years ago how did that pan out, I was drunk then to wasen't I. Until you have spent the amount of time lifting weights as I have, and understand the body and how it reacts, and the gains that can be expected through weight lifting, you are not quilified to make the diagnoises, anyone who has spent considerable amount of time lifting weights understands that you are not going to put on 15 lbs of muscle in 6 months, ain't happening, you may put on overall body weight and then some, but that will all come off once practices start, and I will guarentee you he will not maintain that weight even if some how he managed to gain that kind of muscle mass in 6 months.

Your body cannot maintain it's weight with the vigors of the NFL season. Players who play and practice every week and finish the season at or bigger than they started, you can take to the bank they are on roids, ESPECIALLY RB'S.

All he's doing though is creating an even playing field, do you really believe at 30 Tiki all of a sudden started running people over, and breaking tackle, after tackle? Come on now. I really am not bashing him for it, whats a player to do when everyone else he runs into is twice the size they should be?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]It's days like this I miss my old buddy, the cigarette.

:Smoker:[/QUOTE]

I quit 3 weeks ago. what do the titles, moderator, administrator and such refer to?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]OMG.

So what else is true according to Offiss? 23 TDs and 10 INTs is a lousy season, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter really is butter, woodchucks can and do chuck wood often, someone named Jenny really does answer when you dial 867-5309, you'll pay a lot for a muffler at Meineke, and the Matrix really does have you.

Ass. You're just making sh*t up, Offiss.[/QUOTE]


One mocks, what one does not understand!

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]OMG.

So what else is true according to Offiss? 23 TDs and 10 INTs is a lousy season, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter really is butter, woodchucks can and do chuck wood often, someone named Jenny really does answer when you dial 867-5309, you'll pay a lot for a muffler at Meineke, and the Matrix really does have you.

Ass. You're just making sh*t up, Offiss.[/QUOTE]

get after it schneed!

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Let's chill. If any other mod wants to destroy, obliterate, lock, or otherwise stop this thread, I second your motion.