Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

well he is behind a much better Qb than Brunell.... but would be nice to have him now....

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=jdlea;229069]You don't know what Campbell's gonna be, but you do know what Brunell is and, more importantly, what he isn't. This team isn't winning with him in. They're 2 and 4, I don't buy that Campbell couldn't have beaten the Texans, so they might be 1 game worse, but what would be the difference? If you don't think this season is over, then (like I said in another thread) you have my permission to throw this in my face when they make the playoffs. When that happens I'll say "You were right and I was wrong." Until that happens, I'm gonna go with my knowledge of football and realize that they have very little shot at making the playoffs.

For everyone who believes the season isn't over, please tell me which 8 games they're going to win:

Colts
Cowboys
Eagles
Bucs
Panthers
Falcons
Eagles
Saints
Rams
Giants

Just tell which 8 they'll win. And I really don't wanna hear about winning 5 straight last season cause they played defense then.[/quote]

Bump

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;229089]Not the Ramsey-Brunell thing again.....[/quote]
well Someone else mentioned it earlier.... and I was really discussing how quick he was willing to pull an "inept QB".

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Is anyone else wondering if Brunell's grasp (or lack thereof) is to blame for the awful offensive displays?

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=railcon56;229093]well Someone else mentioned it earlier.... and I was really discussing how quick he was willing to pull an "inept QB".[/QUOTE]

I got ya, railcon. Funny how someone mentions the word [SIZE="1"]'Ramsey'[/SIZE] and some people think it's the Warpath's version of Armageddon.

I still believe it's the pride thing with Gibbs. He wants everyone to be sure he was right about Brunell, and we were all wrong. For some stretches, Gibbs had decent forsight about him. But I think we've seen basically all there is to see.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=RedskinRat;229098]Is anyone else wondering if Brunell's grasp (or lack thereof) is to blame for the awful offensive displays?[/quote]
Does It matter? What's the bottom line a failure is a failure..... That would be just another excuse ... Wins and losses are what counts....

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

The reason we bench brunell is because the skins are not going to make the playoffs this year. I'll say it again the skins are not going to make the playoffs this year. Its a fact, give campbell some time to see if the kid can play or not. If he can great, if he cant at least we know before next year. Then maybe we could find a decent qb in fa of draft. Listen we all know its not all brunell fault be he is part of the problem. The defense need to play better,but it doesnt help when your qb doesnt make the play when they are there to be made. Brunell had enough help but he to lock in on moss and doesnt go threw his read like a veteran qb should. When brunell almost threw his first interception when try to pass the ball to portis on the sideline he had portis open early then panicked then threw late lucky it wasnt picked. Yes it was a nice pass to lloyd but damn cant he try to hit him more often and the ball hung up forever and the first play of the second half moss bailed brunell out by coming back and knocking it down. And lastly the last pass he threw was so rookie just throwing the ball up on first down when we had a 60 seconds left. Was a very weak throw. Start Campbell to see what we have for next year, Hail to the skins.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;229108]The reason we bench brunell is because the skins are not going to make the playoffs this year. I'll say it again the skins are not going to make the playoffs this year. Its a fact, give campbell some time to see if the kid can play or not. If he can great, if he cant at least we know before next year. Then maybe we could find a decent qb in fa of draft. Listen we all know its not all brunell fault be he is part of the problem. The defense need to play better,but it doesnt help when your qb doesnt make the play when they are there to be made. Brunell had enough help but he to lock in on moss and doesnt go threw his read like a veteran qb should. When brunell almost threw his first interception when try to pass the ball to portis on the sideline he had portis open early then panicked then threw late lucky it wasnt picked. Yes it was a nice pass to lloyd but damn cant he try to hit him more often and the ball hung up forever and the first play of the second half moss bailed brunell out by coming back and knocking it down. And lastly the last pass he threw was so rookie just throwing the ball up on first down when we had a 60 seconds left. Was a very weak throw. Start Campbell to see what we have for next year, Hail to the skins.[/quote]
I am still not willing to give it up...we can still make the playoffs...I just wont give up on this season.....

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=railcon56;229104]Does It matter? What's the bottom line a failure is a failure..... That would be just another excuse ... Wins and losses are what counts....[/quote]

So when a spark plug fails in your engine you scrap the car?

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

No one want to give up but come on we have to be real here. Look at the rest of the schedule we have when will we be favored? Maybe Little Danny and the Savior coach Joe will try to build the team the rignt way starting now and in the future by benching brunell who not going to lead us anywhere. Lets take our chance on Campbell and see what he has. If Campbel cant play we still be where were at now in last place.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Did Brunell play defensive tackle or linebacker today?

Somebody answer that for me.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;229126]Did Brunell play defensive tackle or linebacker today?

Somebody answer that for me.[/QUOTE]

He might as well have. Who still thinks Golston was a decent find?

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

I don't know if anyone else has said this or not, but if Campbell is ready, why did Collins get the call to warm up when Brunell got hurt? A few weeks ago Saunders said if the time came to make a switch, it would jump from Brunell to Campbell but yet that didn't seem to be the case. Could it be because they don't think he has enough of a grasp on the offense yet? Brunell struggled a couple times today and made some pretty damn nice looking passes at other times. The main reasons the team lost were in order: piss poor tackling, pathetic 10 yard cushions on the recievers, didn't give the ball to Portis enough, penalties on the defense, and then after all of those would be Brunell not taking advantage of a few opportunities. He is struggling right now, but strange things have happened in this league before and the team is not completely out of it yet. I really do want to see what Campbell can do but not before he's deemed ready and able to perform to the level the team needs him to.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;229126]Did Brunell play defensive tackle or linebacker today?

Somebody answer that for me.[/quote]

Possibly their lack of faith in his abilities as a QB had some impact on the D's game.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;229142]He might as well have. Who still thinks Golston was a decent find?[/QUOTE]

it's partially on him but also where were the lbs to fill the gaps and wrap up what the big boys missed?

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=RedskinRat;229115]So when a spark plug fails in your engine you scrap the car?[/quote]
no you replace the spark plug...with a new one

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Listen since we know holdmen stinks why not start rocky since we traded up to get him. Lets see what he has. Its not all brunell fault, what im saying is the skins are not going anywhere so lets see what campbell has. We have to know if he going to be ready for next year.We wasted three or four picks on him let see what he has. Those are players that could be starting right now if we didnt trade away all the picks to get campbell. Lets be real Brunell will not lead us anywhere trust me. A blindman can see that. Hail to the skins.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;229102]I got ya, railcon. Funny how someone mentions the word [SIZE="1"]'Ramsey'[/SIZE] and some people think it's the Warpath's version of Armageddon.

I still believe it's the pride thing with Gibbs. He wants everyone to be sure he was right about Brunell, and we were all wrong. For some stretches, Gibbs had decent forsight about him. But I think we've seen basically all there is to see.[/QUOTE]

What does he have to prove though? He and Brunell proved that MB wasn't done after 2004 and could help lead a team to the playoffs. And Campbell is also Gibbs' guy so it's not like it would hurt Gibbs' pride as it were to put Campbell in there.

Like I've said before, I think Campbell has the tools to be the best quarterback we've had maybe since Sonny. That doesn't mean he's the answer right now. I don't think it has hurt his progress though to sit him. And I don't think that all the blame should be pinned on Brunell. If you bench him, there a lot of other people that need to be benched.

That all said, there is an increasingly bigger part of me that wants Brunell to go to coach Gibbs and say "We both know this isn't all my fault. As the QB though it's the burden I have to bear. But I've had a great career. I have nothing to prove to anyone anymore. All that's missing is a Super Bowl ring, and that's slipping away. So put the kid in. Let's see if he can add a spark to this team."

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Brunell will never say that. If he did--he should be cut right away. Any player that asks to be benched or even suggests it is no kind of guy you want on your team. Even if Brunell is washed up, it is the coaches responsibility to make tough calls like this one.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;228733]I'm not defending him, I just thought the piss poor defense was the bigger issue yet here we are again acting like switching QBs is going to solve everything. We have much bigger problems right now.[/QUOTE]

I agree, I really don't have much faith in the abilty of Campbell as I have always felt it was a mistake to give up so much for a 1 year wonder college QB, but at least I know Campbell has a fighting chance to prove me wrong and I hope he does. As for Brunell? Well Matty you know there is a great big I told you so on the near horizon. Say what you want [and you know I never have a problem creating another Ramsey debate:rofl:] but who honestly would have been the better choice at the start of the season? Campbell wasen't ready to lead what we all thought was a playoff team, and Collins is a joke, and we can all see what Brunell really brings to the table, any team with a well coached defense can shut him down as we saw today, we saw a not overly talented defense, but a well coached defense just make Brunell look like a rookie.

But GM Joe refuses to admit that he has no clue when it comes to talent evaluation, the scary part though is he can't even evaluate established NFL talent. And so we wait and watch as GM Joe continues to try and drive a square peg through a round hole in Brunell to justify the very first move he made as coach, is Ramsey the second coming of Peyton Manning? Of coarse not, is he better than Pennnington? No. But he's probably every bit as good as Eli Manning especially if given a support group around him, [and with playing time he could have evolved into a much better QB] and he's better than anything we have right now. Not that it really matters, but we need a real QB regardless of who it may be and we don't have one.

Here's the biggest problem with what Gibbs has done so far, as I said when we drafted Campbell, you do not give up what we gave up to sit him on the bench for 2 or maybe 3 years, what happens if Campbell doesn't see the field until next season and then we spend another year finding out he can't play? Or we find out he needs 3 years of playing time to really come of age? That's a real problem! Maybe we get lucky and he steps in and we never look back, but if he can't beat out Brunell at this point in both of thier careers than we just have problems upon problems.


And before we start calling Saunders out lets remember he's a proven genious at O-coordinator everywhere he's been, so what is wrong with this picture? I will give you a hint it starts with B and ends with runell!

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;229102]I got ya, railcon. Funny how someone mentions the word [SIZE="1"]'Ramsey'[/SIZE] and some people think it's the Warpath's version of Armageddon.

I still believe it's the pride thing with Gibbs. He wants everyone to be sure he was right about Brunell, and we were all wrong. For some stretches, Gibbs had decent forsight about him. But I think we've seen basically all there is to see.[/QUOTE]

I pretty much was saying the same thing in my previous post Beem before I saw yours, Gibbs has accomplished everything in football except 1 thing and that is being a GM, and I do believe that's a big mountain he want's to conquer, so it's much easier for him to step aside when it comes to play calling because he's proven he was one of the all time great playcallers, but GM is another story, it's the old saying we alway's want what we can't have, and that I feel is Gibbs problem, he wants to be known as a great GM and he hasen't a clue. Beathard kept him stocked with talent that could impose it's will on other teams that makes coaching much easier, well it's not so easy when you don't have dominating talent at all positions.


Let me be the first to bring ARMAGEDDON to the Warpath, RAMSEY!:boxing:

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote]I don't know if anyone else has said this or not, but if Campbell is ready, why did Collins get the call to warm up when Brunell got hurt?[/quote]

They've said if Brunell goes down in a game, Collins finishes the game. Campbell gets the start after a full week of prep.

[quote]And before we start calling Saunders out lets remember he's a proven genious at O-coordinator everywhere he's been, so what is wrong with this picture? I will give you a hint it starts with B and ends with runell![/quote]
One thing to keep in mind. I have tons of faith in Al. But when was the last time he had a bomb offense without Vermeil?

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

i want to see campbell so bad, but with gibbs here he is going to say "i have so much faith in brunell, and i feel like he can lead our team too victory"

i'm so tired of hearing that from him, that is one thing i [B][U]Hate[/U][/B] about gibbs, that if something obviously needs to be changed it doesn't happen.

there comes a time when you need to make a change for the betterment of the team and put friendships aside. look at phillip rivers-he didn't play for 2 years and now he is tearing it up!

i see that and i think what campbell could be right now.

you draft a first round pick to play him, if he goes to another team and we still have brunell or collins i will never watch the skins ever again.

and i can see that happening with snyder, he doesn't know shit about football!

i'm not saying i know what his job is, i'm not saying i'm better than him or anything, but i could see it

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;229176]What does he have to prove though? He and Brunell proved that MB wasn't done after 2004 and could help lead a team to the playoffs. And Campbell is also Gibbs' guy so it's not like it would hurt Gibbs' pride as it were to put Campbell in there.

And I don't think that all the blame should be pinned on Brunell. If you bench him, there a lot of other people that need to be benched.
[/QUOTE]

You mean 'what does he have [I]left[/I] to prove' ? Nothing. But maybe in Gibbs' mind he has to win it all with the guy he hand picked. Brunell might have been good for a team that was rebuilding, a very young team with lots of rookies struggling to find its identity. But that's not what the Redskins were. They were looking to find that final piece -- they were almost there. Brunell was not the QB to lead them anywhere.

I keep asking myself, are the receivers just not getting open? Do we not have an adequate running game? Is the O-line in shambles? The answers to these questions are all "no." So what's left?

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Gibbs is never going to bench MB. MB wont be the QB next year, maybe it will be Campbell (maybe not) but all that means is another rebuild year with a new QB learning the system.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Brunell is A problem, but maybe not THE problems. Yes he struggles. But come on, we were playing a winless team with the worst rush D in the NFL. Portis ran the ball 15 times, hardly at all in the second half. We were up 14 to 3!! and played like we were down 21 points. Our D could not get off the field, the gave up multiple 3rd and longs, a RB who was fighting for a job a few weeks ago looked like a hall of famer against us. I just dont see the urgency from the team. No pressure, the offense has no identity. it is starting to look like Spurrier is calling the plays from South Carolina. Tennessee ran the ball 41 times!! we got out coached and out played. We were down 3 points with all most 6 minutes to go and we chuck the ball 3 times in a row, are you kidding me!! Like I said, I want to see Campbell too, but when the coaching staff is calling these bullshit plays its hard to see that changing the QB will make any difference. If we put Campbell in, we are essentially saying lets forget this season and get some reps for the kid for next season. You think that will do anything for the locker room? I think it will only break any spirit that is in the locker room. joe has to step up and say look Al, this is what I want to run. screw all these reverses, pitches left, pitches right. we need to run at the D, I saw Randy Thomas come off the field yesterday after that 3 throws and punt towards the end of the game and he looked like he was ready to kill somebody. Our O line wants to play smashmouth football. They carried us to the playoffs last year, lets allow them to do it this year. I think it was Boswells article, we have portis, betts, cartwright, sellers, and duckett. who would be able to stop us if we really wanted to run the ball 40+ times a game? NOBODY!!

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

You're right about Thomas. That looked to me like it was more than just simple frustration. The question is: What's he going to do? The team needs a leader to step up and call out players and coaches. Maybe, it's being done already but I'll bet it's hard to vocalize your feelings to several former head coaches and a Hall of Fame coach. Maybe the problem is that the players feel since they have the greatest coaching staff ever assembled that it's going to work without their complete dedication or intensity. Maybe not.

Complaining about the offense isn't going to help correct the defense. Even in the games we won the defense didn't look particularly impressive. Against the Jaguars the offense had to put up over a ton of yards to win. The way it looks now our formula for winning is acrue over 450+ yards every game because the defense won't hold the opponent to any less.

TACKLE! Just tackle the ball-carrier!

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Can [U]we[/U] bench Brunell?

I don't have that authority. Do you?

Frustration is one thing but get real.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Did anyone just hear on Sports Talk 980 where Andy Pollen said that reports said a chant "thank you Mark Brunell" could be heard coming through the closed doors of theTitans locker room after the game.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=irish;229252]Did anyone just hear on Sports Talk 980 where Andy Pollen said that reports said a chant "thank you Mark Brunell" could be heard coming through the closed doors of theTitans locker room after the game.[/quote]


I'm sure that report is total BS.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Apparently it's in the WP too.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=GTripp0012;228853][URL="http://nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PRAT/2006/regular"]NFL.com - NFL Stats[/URL]

Top 10 good enough for ya? Yes? No? Whatever.[/quote]

What's your argument? After yesterdays game, Brunell is 12th in passing yards and rating(middle of the pack). He's also 23rd in passing touchdowns, with five TD's in six games...

I'm a numbers guy myself, so here's a few more stats.

Passer rating for each game:

Vikings - 76.9
Cowboys - 61.6
Texans - 119.3
Jaguars - 117.2
Giants - 68.2
Titans - 68.8

That looks like the definition of inconsistence to me. If everything isn't going perfectly in Washington's favor, he falls apart.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Let's get something clear: bring up the D in this thread is a red herring. Yes, they sucked--and that is to my mind the most fundamentla problem with the skins. But that DOES NOT LET MB OF THE HOOK. Two wrongs don't make a right.

MB is done, and the stats are decieving IMO. He doesn't have a strong arm (JC does), he doesn;t move well any more (JC does), and he seems to get happy-feet and be unable to make good reads (JC could do that, for what it's worth). Outside of the bomb to Lloyd, his passes were largely short and dumpoff. He had several easy INTs dropped, and he threw into triple coverage to end the game. Does this really give us "the best chance to win"? I am dubious... People outside the skins don't think so; it seems like Gibbs is the last die-hard supporter.

Start JC for a number of reasons:

1. He needs experience--the obnly way to learn to read NFL defenses is to play against them.

2. If he isn't good, we need to know ASAP.

3. He showed flashes of what he can do in preseason. In this offense, with these playmakers, he wouldn't have to win games on his own, folks. He's got CP, Cooley, Moss, ARE, etc, etc. And we know he is very coachable--not a loose cannon who will do crazy stuff. He can win us ball games, or at least do like MB is supposed: not lose them.

4. The team needs a lift. Whatever is going on in public, you know behind close doors and in private, the playmakers of this offense are getting down.

5. It will give us fans something meaningful to root for this season (assuming, as I do, given the schedule, that we are in all probablity done).

6. If I here one more Gibbs quote about super-smart MB fighting his guts out, I am going to puke MY guts out.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=irish;229210]Gibbs is never going to bench MB. MB wont be the QB next year, maybe it will be Campbell (maybe not) but all that means is another rebuild year with a new QB learning the system.[/quote]Philip Rivers anyone? Jason Campbell projects to the NFL just as well. Why rush him?

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

I say wait one more game. I agree with other posters that it sends a bad message if you pull MB out too soon and the season isn't lost yet... but it's getting close.

If we lose next week, I pine for Campbell.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;229253]I'm sure that report is total BS.[/QUOTE]

It was in the WP, reported by someone who heard it from the visiting teams' locker room.

The question I have for you is, why is that so far-fetched that something like that could be said?

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=skinsfanthru&thru;229155]I don't know if anyone else has said this or not, but if Campbell is ready, why did Collins get the call to warm up when Brunell got hurt? A few weeks ago Saunders said if the time came to make a switch, it would jump from Brunell to Campbell but yet that didn't seem to be the case. Could it be because they don't think he has enough of a grasp on the offense yet? Brunell struggled a couple times today and made some pretty damn nice looking passes at other times. The main reasons the team lost were in order: piss poor tackling, pathetic 10 yard cushions on the recievers, didn't give the ball to Portis enough, penalties on the defense, and then after all of those would be Brunell not taking advantage of a few opportunities. He is struggling right now, but strange things have happened in this league before and the team is not completely out of it yet. I really do want to see what Campbell can do but not before he's deemed ready and able to perform to the level the team needs him to.[/quote]They said if brunell was injuried in the game Collins would take over if Brunell could not start a game CJ would start.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=T.A.P.O.A.F.O.R.;229262]I say wait one more game. I agree with other posters that it sends a bad message if you pull MB out too soon and the season isn't lost yet... but it's getting close.

If we lose next week, I pine for Campbell.[/quote]


It sends a bad message if you pull MB out too soon???? What kind of message does it send to keep that bum in there?

Welcome to the board as well!

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=wilsowilso;229298]It sends a bad message if you pull MB out too soon???? What kind of message does it send to keep that bum in there?

Welcome to the board as well![/quote]

If you leave him in there you're still trying to make it to the playoffs this season. Maybe I'm too optimistic. It's a long shot but realistic enough, and the team HAS been working it's ass off. If you put in Campbell you're playing for next year.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but if we had to win just one game, I'd still want Brunell in. And yes, I may be willing to eat my words a few weeks from now.

Adn thanks for the welcome ;)

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=irish;229252]Did anyone just hear on Sports Talk 980 where Andy Pollen said that reports said a chant "thank you Mark Brunell" could be heard coming through the closed doors of theTitans locker room after the game.[/quote]

It should have been thank you Al Saunders for not pounding the rock all day long. 14 carries for Portis... that's not Redskins football.