Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;296304]I think that the examples you mentioned though require a lot more work than something as natural as marijuana. People don't really have a lot of access to making their own TVs and prescription drugs as much as they do to planting a lot of seeds.

Typically if you're considering the organic quality of pot itself, most people who buy produce, consider the "farmer's market"-type stuff to be superior, so while I think that big companies might compete, they'd also have some competition from home growers as well.[/quote]

Well yeah, when you're talking about apples, anybody can grow an apple and sell it at a farmer's market, TMC. But there would be major government regulation on weed, just as there is for tobacco. Not anybody would be allowed to grow weed and sell it. I mean, we're talking about legalizing weed and everything, but that doesn't mean the government wouldn't watch its production like a hawk just as it does for tobacco. There would be strict government regulation and red tape, which would be a major barrier to entry for anyone but big business.

That's why you don't hear much about mom & pop ciggarrette makers.

Re: Legalize it!
 

Also, the farmer's market may have the best produce but Kroger and Wal-Mart are closer to the neighborhoods that has the largest buying power which means their produce generates more profit. People inherently seek out the most efficient method of expending energy/time/effort. We have a Wal-Mart 250 yards away from our house, literally. We also have a country store about 2 miles away that sells local fruit and vegetable produce that clearly are superior in quality. Wal-Mart's closer so I go there and buy a bag of apples so I can get back home and read this thread.




It's really disgusting how much time I spend on this site, btw.

Re: Legalize it!
 

I have snorted ketamine off of bathroom floors before. I also graduated first in my class in college. This is proof that drugs are not harmful. OWNED!

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;296301]What a dismal understanding of supply and demand you have.[/QUOTE]

You say it's dismal, yet you proceed to confirm everything I wrote with regard to the drop in price due to the laws of supply and demand.

And you're right, since the act of growing a weed in your backyard is somewhat less complicated than micro brewing, that does make your comparison to Anheuser-Busch rather asinine.

[QUOTE=Schneed10]If legalized, it would be American companies like Phillip Morris trying to grow it here in the states competing against Columbian growers who have much lower labor costs, lower costs of land, and require no new capital investment. The high supply of weed in the market, and increased competition between companies like Phillip Morris and overseas growers will push the price WAAAY down. Competition will push the price down so far that South American growers will be able to drop their prices below the point at which Phillip Morris could cover their costs. The South Americans would still turn a profit even on their lower margins, simply because the costs are so much lower. Phillip Morris's margin would be so bad they'd be forced out.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Big Business may not rush to enter into the market for marijuana production. Since it's a weed, people don't have to be agriculture experts to grow it. More confirmations of my post. I guess "effing" business school isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[QUOTE=Schneed10]The affect on our currency in the global market would not be anywhere close to being offset by savings on law enforcement and all that crap. The government wouldn't cut back costs on law enforcement, they'd just redirect their attention to other issues. The government doesn't have competition like business does; there's no incentive for them to cut police officers or border control agents.[/QUOTE]

I never said the government would "cut police officers or border control agents." Do you have any idea how much money the United States Government spends on the War on Drugs? I don't have the figures at my fingertips, but I can assure you the number contains lots of commas.

Is it your position that a redirection of resources away from the investigation, apprehension, prosecution, and incarceration of marijuana users wouldn't make for a wiser and more effective use of available funds? The fact that they concentrate their attention on crimes that actually infringe on the rights of others as opposed to vice type crimes contradicts that argument.

Ask your econ buddies what the total effect would be on our currency. I'd bet the difference would be minimal. Our country's overall economic strengths in just about every other area would offset any decline that you speak of.

At some point, I guess I will come to the realization that arguing with someone who admits to not using logic and objectivity is a pointless waste of time.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;296294]As far as people saying weed should remain illegal because there isn't a way to test drivers for it, I respond to that by asking: is there a way to test to see if a truck driver is too tired to be driving; is there a way to test to make the Claritin and percocet that an old lady just took impair her driving; how can you test to see if someone got into an accident because they were looking at street signs or something stupid like that?
Personally, I don't think people should drive when they're high but I absolutely do not buy the argument weed should stay illegal because cops can't test drivers for it.[/quote]

This seems like a weak protest, AMD. You're saying that since we don't test tired truck driver's or drugged out old ladies then we should also not test for all people who are high? There will be truck drivers and old ladies that will be in that group that are tested for driving a motor vehicle while under the influence of marijuana. Truck driver's are regular everyday people like you and me and old ladies who have glaucoma may use it to relieve their ailments.

That line of reasoning also seems to indicate that we should also just do away with breathalizer's. How else is a police officer going to have scientific evidence that a person is under the influence of a motor-skill inhibiting or hallucinogenic drug other than testing for it?

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=Beemnseven;296349]
Ask your econ buddies what the total effect would be on our currency. I'd bet the difference would be minimal. Our country's overall economic strengths in just about every other area would offset any decline that you speak of.[/quote]
Don't forget the sharp increase in the U.S. demand for sour cream and onion chips with some dip, some beef jerky, some peanut butter. Häagen-Dazs ice cream bars, a whole lot, chocolate, gotta have chocolate. Some popcorn, red popcorn, graham crackers, graham crackers with marshmallows, the little marshmallows and little chocolate bars and for s'mores. Also, celery, grape jelly, Cap'n Crunch with the little Crunch berries, pizzas. Big pizza's with everything on 'em, with water, whole lotta water, and Funyons. (Great Movie)

This will surely impact the economy in a positive way.

(I'm done talking about economic impact since I really don't know enough about it... just thought I'd lighten the thread up)

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=RobH4413;296358]Don't forget the sharp increase in the U.S. demand for sour cream and onion chips with some dip, some beef jerky, some peanut butter. Häagen-Dazs ice cream bars, a whole lot, chocolate, gotta have chocolate. Some popcorn, red popcorn, graham crackers, graham crackers with marshmallows, the little marshmallows and little chocolate bars and for s'mores. Also, celery, grape jelly, Cap'n Crunch with the little Crunch berries, pizzas. Big pizza's with everything on 'em, with water, whole lotta water, and Funyons. (Great Movie)

This will surely impact the economy in a positive way.

(I'm done talking about economic impact since I really don't know enough about it... just thought I'd lighten the thread up)[/quote]

damn I'm hungry now

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;296353]This seems like a weak protest, AMD. You're saying that since we don't test tired truck driver's or drugged out old ladies then we should also not test for all people who are high? There will be truck drivers and old ladies that will be in that group that are tested for driving a motor vehicle while under the influence of marijuana. Truck driver's are regular everyday people like you and me and old ladies who have glaucoma may use it to relieve their ailments.

That line of reasoning also seems to indicate that we should also just do away with breathalizer's. How else is a police officer going to have scientific evidence that a person is under the influence of a motor-skill inhibiting or hallucinogenic drug other than testing for it?[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that we shouldn't test people to see if they're DWHigh, nor am I saying that people who do cause accidents while high shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. I don't see how this line of thinking has anything to do with getting rid of breathalizers, because they're a proven method of proving that a driver is too impaired to be behind the wheel.
Hell, if they develop a test to see if drivers were high they should use it. For now, they should probably just use the standard roadside test (walk the line; touch your nose; etc) that they use for drunk drivers.

What I am trying to say is that I find the whole "you can't test drivers to see if they're high, so weed should remain illegal" argument to be rather weak. What I meant by my examples is that there is no test to see if (for instance) a trucker caused an accident because he'd been on the road too long and he was too tired, or that the old lady on allergy meds was just as out of it as if she just took a couple hits off a bong. To me, these are very similiar to DWH and they also can't be tested for.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=SkinEmAll;296253]Why are people who smoke cigs assholes? and whats the difference of second hand bong hit smoke or other wise, seriously? And no, smoking shouldnt be banned in public, outside. But if they ever do, they need to also ban the following: dudes who wear their pants halfway down their ass, and cussing in public in front of little children, and white rapper wannabe thugs(posers) fat ladys wearing spandex, men who want their tongue and or belly button pierced, al sharpton, pantys on hot chicks in short skirts on windy days, sanjia, al gore, rude people in customer service............. i could go on forever, but i think you get the point.[/QUOTE]

People who smoke are not assholes. I smoked cigarettes for 6 years. It's the people who have no consideration for non-smokers, and smoke their cigarettes in places where non-smokers MUST be exposed to it -- like right in front of a door to a public building. How am I supposed to enter the building without breathing the smoke and negatively affecting my health?

If smoking pot were legal, I would approach it in the same manner. People need to respect the rights of others to be healthy.

As for the other things you mentioned, they do not adversely affect people's health. They are just inconveniences. You can't very well justify making a law against something because it is inconvenient. You can, however, justify making a law against something for health concerns -- like smoking in public.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;296375]I'm not saying that we shouldn't test people to see if they're DWHigh, nor am I saying that people who do cause accidents while high shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. I don't see how this line of thinking has anything to do with getting rid of breathalizers, because they're a proven method of proving that a driver is too impaired to be behind the wheel.
Hell, if they develop a test to see if drivers were high they should use it. For now, they should probably just use the standard roadside test (walk the line; touch your nose; etc) that they use for drunk drivers.

What I am trying to say is that I find the whole "you can't test drivers to see if they're high, so weed should remain illegal" argument to be rather weak. What I meant by my examples is that there is no test to see if (for instance) a trucker caused an accident because he'd been on the road too long and he was too tired, or that the old lady on allergy meds was just as out of it as if she just took a couple hits off a bong. To me, these are very similiar to DWH and they also can't be tested for.[/quote]

Okay, I gotcha. My whole contention is ensuring that the roads do not get any more dangerous than they already are. It's a safety concern I have for family. I, as an individual, am not all that particularly worried about anything happening. I've always had a "devil may care" attitude. But now that I'm married and with a 20 month old I always look for any potentially dangerous situations. I can't control the actions of a drunk driver nor a person who is high (or tired or drugged out). I can try to help pass legislature that puts into effect a screening process that law enforcement can use to help keep those irresponsible f*ckups off the street.

We're not going to be able to control every possible reason why a person is impaired but we can take preventative actions to reduce the potential for an even greater number of traffic accidents.

Re: Legalize it!
 

I don't agree that domestic businesses would not be able to compete in a global pot market.

The first reason is import taxes. Surely the government would tax imported pot, just as they do other imported goods. This would raise the cost of imported pot, thereby giving the domestic businesses a small advantage over them.

Secondly, if a domestic business could lower costs by growing outside of the US, then they would (just like auto manufacturers). I don't think it would take very long for Phillip Morris to buy up the South American growers, along with their equipment, work force, and land.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;296386]I don't agree that domestic businesses would not be able to compete in a global pot market.

The first reason is import taxes. Surely the government would tax imported pot, just as they do other imported goods. This would raise the cost of imported pot, thereby giving the domestic businesses a small advantage over them.

Secondly, if a domestic business could lower costs by growing outside of the US, then they would (just like auto manufacturers). I don't think it would take very long for Phillip Morris to buy up the South American growers, along with their equipment, work force, and land.[/quote]

I think your second point is pretty good and very likely.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;296384]Okay, I gotcha. My whole contention is ensuring that the roads do not get any more dangerous than they already are. It's a safety concern I have for family. I, as an individual, am not all that particularly worried about anything happening. I've always had a "devil may care" attitude. But now that I'm married and with a 20 month old I always look for any potentially dangerous situations. I can't control the actions of a drunk driver nor a person who is high (or tired or drugged out). I can try to help pass legislature that puts into effect a screening process that law enforcement can use to help keep those irresponsible f*ckups off the street.

We're not going to be able to control every possible reason why a person is impaired but we can take preventative actions to reduce the potential for an even greater number of traffic accidents.[/QUOTE]I understand what you're saying about highway safety and I do agree 100% that people should not be driving while high; I just don't think that's a reason it should remain illegal.
That being said, even if it were legalized (or decriminalized, which is far more likely) drivers should be held accountable for DWH just like drivers are held accountable for DUI/DWI's.

Re: Legalize it!
 

I love how this discussion has turned into a debate about the tax and general economic considerations of a legalized, domestic pot market.

Re: Legalize it!
 

You think you are going to be this cool parent, laughing and drinking with your kids... until you actually HAVE them. Then all of the sudden you want to protect them and give them the best in life.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296398]I love how this discussion has turned into a debate about the tax and general economic considerations of a legalized, domestic pot market.[/QUOTE]I think that's because there's really no reason that it should be illegal. All the arguments against it are pretty easy to shoot down since alcohol and tobacco are legal.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;296400]I think that's because there's really no reason that it should be illegal. All the arguments against it are pretty easy to shoot down since alcohol and tobacco are legal.[/quote]

Easy for one side, I guess. Since carrying a concealed firearm is legal then I guess it should be legal to carry a concealed grenade? Just because alcohol and tobacco are legal doesn't mean it's right to make other drugs legal regardless if they're any more or less potent. That sounds like some sort of whiney kid's argument: "Well my friend Bobby gets to stay up late, why can't I?" I say count your blessings that alcohol and tobacco are legal.

Re: Legalize it!
 

It's about perspective, because I find it laughable to say that guns are to grenades what alcohol is to pot (that would not pass for a good SAT analogy).

Plus, once again, look at the original reasons that pot was made illegal in this country and tell me that crap still holds water.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_of_cannabis]Legal issues of cannabis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

[QUOTE]The name marijuana (Mexican Spanish marihuana, mariguana) is associated almost exclusively with the plant's psychoactive use. The term is now well known in English largely due to the efforts of American drug prohibitionists during the 1920s and 1930s, which deliberately used a Mexican name for cannabis in order to turn the populace against the idea that it should be legal, playing upon attitudes towards race. (See 1937 Marihuana Tax Act). Those who demonized the drug by calling it marihuana omitted the fact that the "deadly marihuana" was identical to cannabis indica, which had at the time a reputation for pharmaceutical safety.[73]

Although cannabis has been used for its psychoactive effects since ancient times, it first became well known in the United States during the jazz music scene of the late 1920s and 1930s. Louis Armstrong became a prominent and life-long devotee. It was popular in the blues scene as well, and eventually became a prominent part of 1960s counterculture.
[/QUOTE]
*I know Wikipedia can be biased too, but this is very similar to the information I found when doing research for my college thesis.

And BTW, I don't smoke weed anymore (I did up until about 4 years ago, in college) but I do think it should be decriminalized.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;296497]It's about perspective, because I find it laughable to say that guns are to grenades what alcohol is to pot (that would not pass for a good SAT analogy).[/quote]

The analogy is fairly passable, both are devices used to inflict casualties on a small group of people. A handgun is more effective at killing people than a grenade is. Alcohol and weed are substances that people use to make them feel better or cope with things they themselves are unable to handle on their own. The fact is the government has determined that it would not be conducive to general populace's health to legalize every possible means of harming other individuals.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;296534]The analogy is fairly passable, both are devices used to inflict casualties on a small group of people. A handgun is more effective at killing people than a grenade is. Alcohol and weed are substances that people use to make them feel better or cope with things they themselves are unable to handle on their own. The fact is the government has determined that it would not be conducive to general populace's health to legalize every possible means of harming other individuals.[/QUOTE]
I understand that, I just thought you were saying that weed is that much more detrimental than alcohol; as in, a grenade causes that much more damage than a handgun.
Personally I think it's more like the law allowing you to carry bowie knife in a sheath on your hip but not a switch blade in your pocket.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;296063]Right, I'm talking about things that are unprocessed. Things like coke, booze, etc., come from natural ingredients of course but need to be processed into their final forms.

I'm not sure about opium, but they do use the poppy seeds for food. I'm not 100% sure of the process of turning the plant into it's drug form though.

Well, just an fyi, you got your Peyote
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote]Peyote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

you got your Coca leaf
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca]Coca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

you got your mushrooms
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms]Psilocybin mushrooms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

I'm sure there are many more I am not aware of

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=Hog1;296545][quote=Mattyk72;296063]Right, I'm talking about things that are unprocessed. Things like coke, booze, etc., come from natural ingredients of course but need to be processed into their final forms.

I'm not sure about opium, but they do use the poppy seeds for food. I'm not 100% sure of the process of turning the plant into it's drug form though.

Well, just an fyi, you got your Peyote
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote"]Peyote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

you got your Coca leaf
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca"]Coca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

you got your mushrooms
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms"]Psilocybin mushrooms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

I'm sure there are many more I am not aware of[/quote]

Thanks, I figured there were more.

Those should all be legal too ;)

Re: Legalize it!
 

I just realized, if TB MOD IV finds out we've all been talking about illegal drugs all day we're all gonna get banned for a year!!!
I think it's time I cut out of this conversation!

Re: Legalize it!
 

Like Matty is saying to legalize (all natural) them all. I don't know if he is serious about that or not, but I cannot agree.
There are many people in the world who don't need the level of freedom to choose yes or no on illegal, potentially deadly, and certainly addictive drug use.
To do so make us Amsterdam. We don't want that.
While some may view it as Government invasion where it does not belong, it's not that simple. There are certainly many health risks associated with drug use, and it's frequently attendant addiction. For those of you preparing to scream "ALCOHOL". Yes, it shares many of the same qualities and problems. It's these same arguements and health risks paid for by the public sector that have shut down a substancial portion of the tobacco industry.
Gotta' say no.
I don't believe that sends the correct message to society in general, and I don't believe that would be a positive move.
You.............slaves to the leaf will have to continue to operate in the soft underbelly of society

Re: Legalize it!
 

Hog,

Would you also say that the Government should ban fast food, mandate exercise, and tax fat people? Because cardio-vascular disease attributable to poor diet and lack of exercise has become the #1 killer in America and the single greatest reason why Americans have such poor health and pay so much for healthcare. That sounds like an awfully socialistic, paternalistic point of view - the people are too dumb to decide for themselves, the government must do it for them.

Or, as long as we are talking about social utility, what about guns? Guns have social utility only insofar as they can be used to protect against others with guns. Should people have the right to possess weapons that can kill, but not have the right to possess marijuana?

Re: Legalize it!
 

I am concerned about the validity of the poll results. Don't you think that those in favor are instantly attracted to this thread. If you don't, you don't care. If you do, you do.

I wonder if that's the reason for the results.

Or I hope it's just that the skins fans are just ****ing cool.

_____________________________________________
"are you cool man...."

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296567]Hog,

Would you also say that the Government should ban fast food, mandate exercise, and tax fat people? Because cardio-vascular disease attributable to poor diet and lack of exercise has become the #1 killer in America and the single greatest reason why Americans have such poor health and pay so much for healthcare. That sounds like an awfully socialistic, paternalistic point of view - the people are too dumb to decide for themselves, the government must do it for them.

Or, as long as we are talking about social utility, what about guns? Guns have social utility only insofar as they can be used to protect against others with guns. Should people have the right to possess weapons that can kill, but not have the right to possess marijuana?[/quote]

The points you bring up are valid, are not answered simply, or absolutely. In truth, I do not know the answers. I can say for me, the legalization of Smoke is not that big of a deal. The legalization of other more powerful drugs may have a more profound effect. I simply don't believe that, that society is one we want to live in. Yes, I believe that the species of man has to be regulated by ( at least some) law, or chaos ensues. I view the legalization of virtually all mind benders as a serious step in the wrong direction.

And yes, I would love to see America ruled by something other than money! Until then, fast food stays.
Let's face it, Strychnine is heavily regulated. Why, no money in it. Nobody cares. Same result as fast food?? just slower.

Maybe it's like helmet laws?? To stupid to wear a helmet?? No problem, it's my head, right? Wrong. Your head, my health care dollars?

I would love to weigh in on the gun issue, but I will save that for another time, as I don't believe it germane to this arena.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296567]Hog,

Would you also say that the Government should ban fast food, mandate exercise, and tax fat people? Because cardio-vascular disease attributable to poor diet and lack of exercise has become the #1 killer in America and the single greatest reason why Americans have such poor health and pay so much for healthcare. That sounds like an awfully socialistic, paternalistic point of view - the people are too dumb to decide for themselves, the government must do it for them.

Or, as long as we are talking about social utility, what about guns? Guns have social utility only insofar as they can be used to protect against others with guns. Should people have the right to possess weapons that can kill, but not have the right to possess marijuana?[/quote]

I know this was directed to Hog, SGG, but I'd like say that this kind of argument seems to say "legalize it all or don't make any of it legal".

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;296386]I don't agree that domestic businesses would not be able to compete in a global pot market.

The first reason is import taxes. Surely the government would tax imported pot, just as they do other imported goods. This would raise the cost of imported pot, thereby giving the domestic businesses a small advantage over them.[/quote]
Couldn't the government theoretically raise the import taxes for marijuana so high that it would make it nearly impossible for other companies to import it?

This would require a domestic market and infrastructure to grow substantially and thus solve any global trade problems. This would pour money into the government, and help boost the overall economy. Farmers would be making money, increasing the demand for farming equipment, farming supplies, and a whole sort of things.

It would totally benefit the economy, help free up resources for law enforcement, unclog the courts, etc.

One problem could be what to do with the convicted criminals in jail right now on marijuana charges. Once pot becomes legal, what happens to people convicted on multiple charges, with some of them being marijuana charges.

---------------

On an interesting side note, a good friend of mine recently interviewed a former DEA agent for a report for one of his classes. Apparently a lot of the agents don't even worry about marijuana, and assume it will be legal once the general population finds it acceptable. There also ARE marijuana testing equipment readily available should any legislation be passed. Every thing is in place, just the general public is what holds it back.

Thought that was interesting.

Re: Legalize it!
 

I didn't mean to say that everything that's bad should be legal or illegal. I meant to point out that a principled objection to the legalization of marijuana based on health care considerations, costs to society, and the belief that the government should decide such issues for the people is inconsistent with a republican principles and the notion that fast food should be legal, untaxed, etc.

Re: Legalize it!
 

just say no to drugs:(

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=Hog1;296577]
I would love to weigh in on the gun issue, but I will save that for another time, as I don't believe it germane to this arena.[/quote]

I find it ironic that so many conservatives are so adamant for some civil liberties (right to bear arms), saying things like "We must protect our rights as Americans!".

But yet sit silent and say nothing about the loss of our "rights" implied in the patriot act.

Not trying to get in a debate there, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296567]

Would you also say that the Government should ban fast food, mandate exercise, and tax fat people? Because cardio-vascular disease attributable to poor diet and lack of exercise has become the #1 killer in America and the single greatest reason why Americans have such poor health and pay so much for healthcare. That sounds like an awfully socialistic, paternalistic point of view - the people are too dumb to decide for themselves, the government must do it for them.

Or, as long as we are talking about social utility, what about guns? Guns have social utility only insofar as they can be used to protect against others with guns. Should people have the right to possess weapons that can kill, but not have the right to possess marijuana?[/QUOTE]

Very good point SGG. Also, the government should ban sex since STD's are rampant in our society, and since we as a society are too stupid to stop ourselves from self destructing, might as well let the government stop us.
It's a slippery slope, if we allow the government to pass laws to stop us from doing anything, we are in trouble as a society. Sure, we as a society are collectively stupid, but it's our choice to be so, that's the ugly side of democracy. The problem is (sorry to turn this into slightly political debate) the government has laws in place to help those who don't want to help themselves, and certain political parties have felt it was their responsibility to protect the self destructing human nature. Self responsibility needs to be taught, and demanded. If you want to smoke weed, then go ahead, but do it in moderation and with some forethought to your fellow human beings. I don't know how exactly we have become a society that could care less about others, but it's getting to be a huge problem. I could care less if you drink yourself stupid, but do so in your home and don't drive. Don't take a chance on hurting me or anyone other than yourself with anything you do.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=RobH4413;296587]I find it ironic that so many conservatives are so adamant for some civil liberties (right to bear arms), saying things like "We must protect our rights as Americans!".

But yet sit silent and say nothing about the loss of our "rights" implied in the patriot act.

Not trying to get in a debate there, but it doesn't make sense to me.[/quote]

What, specifically is pissing you off?

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;296563]Like Matty is saying to legalize (all natural) them all. I don't know if he is serious about that or not, but I cannot agree.
There are many people in the world who don't need the level of freedom to choose yes or no on illegal, potentially deadly, and certainly addictive drug use.
To do so make us Amsterdam. We don't want that.
While some may view it as Government invasion where it does not belong, it's not that simple. There are certainly many health risks associated with drug use, and it's frequently attendant addiction. For those of you preparing to scream "ALCOHOL". Yes, it shares many of the same qualities and problems. It's these same arguements and health risks paid for by the public sector that have shut down a substancial portion of the tobacco industry.
Gotta' say no.
I don't believe that sends the correct message to society in general, and I don't believe that would be a positive move.
You.............slaves to the leaf will have to continue to operate in the soft underbelly of society[/QUOTE]

I think the question is: Does the government have the right to protect you from yourself?

I say no.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=RobH4413;296587]I find it ironic that so many conservatives are so adamant for some civil liberties (right to bear arms), saying things like "We must protect our rights as Americans!".

But yet sit silent and say nothing about the loss of our "rights" implied in the patriot act.

Not trying to get in a debate there, but it doesn't make sense to me.[/QUOTE]

I know we're getting off subject, but can you be specific about what you are referring to in terms of loss of rights. I'm not saying I don't agree...I'm just curious.

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=jsarno;296589]Very good point SGG. Also, the government should ban sex since STD's are rampant in our society, and since we as a society are too stupid to stop ourselves from self destructing, might as well let the government stop us.
It's a slippery slope, if we allow the government to pass laws to stop us from doing anything, we are in trouble as a society. Sure, we as a society are collectively stupid, but it's our choice to be so, that's the ugly side of democracy. The problem is (sorry to turn this into slightly political debate) the government has laws in place to help those who don't want to help themselves, and certain political parties have felt it was their responsibility to protect the self destructing human nature. Self responsibility needs to be taught, and demanded. If you want to smoke weed, then go ahead, but do it in moderation and with some forethought to your fellow human beings. I don't know how exactly we have become a society that could care less about others, but it's getting to be a huge problem. I could care less if you drink yourself stupid, but do so in your home and don't drive. Don't take a chance on hurting me or anyone other than yourself with anything you do.[/quote]

As you point out, maybe the problem is not the legalization of things and activities that are potentialy harmful, but the tax dollar umbrella ready to catch those that fall?
Remove the $$$, remove the problem????

Re: Legalize it!
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;296592]I think the question is: Does the government have the right to protect you from yourself?

I say no.[/quote]

Who pays, when you ( or anyone else) become a problem?

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;296593]I know we're getting off subject, but can you be specific about what you are referring to in terms of loss of rights. I'm not saying I don't agree...I'm just curious.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever heard of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_(alleged_terrorist)]Jose Padilla[/url]?

You, a citizen of America (assuming you are a citizen), could be arrested and held without charge by the government for a very long time (perhaps forever), simply if they deem you an "enemy combatant". Due process? Forget about it. The "Patriot Act" (what an ironic name) has given the government the power to perform unconstitutional acts for the sake of fighting terrorism.

One of my favorite quotes:
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Benjamin Franklin

Re: Legalize it!
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;296599]Who pays, when you ( or anyone else) become a problem?[/QUOTE]

A problem to myself? I guess that is my problem, and nobody else's.

However, let's assume that I do incur costs on the government for harming myself. So what? I pay taxes. Those taxes should be used for creating an environment in which I am free. Freedom has monetary costs, and that is what our taxes should be used for (at least partially).