Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298459]Apparently the shooter was a 24 year old male from China. I went to a university that had an engineering school that had a notorious reputation for a string of suicides among young Asian males from foreign countries. The typical story went as follows - the kid's parents shelled out a ton of money to send their kid to America to get a great university-level education in one of the "hard sciences," the parents put enormous pressure on the kid to excel, the kid felt really physically and emotionally distant from everything he knew (which, of course, was back in China, Japan, etc), and either the didn't perform as well in school as his parents expected and/or the kid became so isolated that he went insane. It sounds like this idiot snapped after his girlfriend boke up with him, but I would venture to guess that the break-up was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

I do not mean to focus on the shooter at a time when so many are grieving about the victims, but I thought my personal college experience might be worth a read.[/QUOTE]

Just heard on this morning news conference that the shooter was actually Korean. 23 yrs old, English major, and I believe they said he was from Centreville, VA.

I guess we'll find out more later on.....

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Cho Seng-Hui is his name, Big C does the name sound familiar?

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Here's the article from Yahoo....

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting]Va. Tech president: Gunman was student - Yahoo! News[/url]

Re: At Least 20 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins;298527]big C, first off i'm glad your ok. i'm not disagreeing with your post but i saw on tv this morning that the VT police thought the first shooting was an isolated event and more importantly, they had leads that lead them off campus. for those two hours in between the two shootings the police were following those leads. so yea, in hindsight, it's easy to say they should have locked down everything but at the time of the first shooting the police thought they were doing the right thing. anyways, i just wanted to put that out there. i didn't know if this was new information or not.[/QUOTE]

I don't doubt that they thought they were doing the right thing, but clearly they weren't. This is a question of competence and decision making, not intent. I just don't see how you don't err on the side of caution in a situation like this.

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Im from SW Va, my family all went to VT, and my heart is breaking today for one of the most beautiful places in the country. I know that at a time like this we want to blame someone, but the only person to blame is the sick son of a bitch that did this. I can't blame VT officials. The first two shootings appeared domestic and isolated. Imagine shootings such as that taking place at a trailer park, and the local police try to shut down an entire city fearing additional shootings. A college campus like VT is pretty big, with thousands of students. When additional shootings did not take place for over two hours, who could have known he was going to other places on campus. No, I cannot blame VT officials no one couldve foresaw what happened. Im just sick and really down about the whole thing. God Bless VT.

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[quote=djnemo65;298564]I don't doubt that they thought they were doing the right thing, but clearly they weren't. This is a question of competence and decision making, not intent. I just don't see how you don't err on the side of caution in a situation like this.[/quote]

Yeah I agree here. First off, school administrations priding themselves on keeping classes open at all times need to get a grip. College classes are not UN meetings, everyone will be just fine if you cancel classes. Your students will not be shortchanged learning opportunities by missing a day of classes; much less be shortchanged the opportunity to add skill sets and prepare for work life after college. College classes are not that effing important; the administration should have recognized that having everyone in class wasn't worth the risk given that the shooter was still at large.

If the shooter isn't in captivity, then you have to assume he's still a danger to people on your campus. Anything less is irresponsible.

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[quote=paulskinsfan;298569]Im from SW Va, my family all went to VT, and my heart is breaking today for one of the most beautiful places in the country. I know that at a time like this we want to blame someone, but the only person to blame is the sick son of a bitch that did this. I can't blame VT officials. The first two shootings appeared domestic and isolated. Imagine shootings such as that taking place at a trailer park, and the local police try to shut down an entire city fearing additional shootings. A college campus like VT is pretty big, with thousands of students. When additional shootings did not take place for over two hours, who could have known he was going to other places on campus. No, I cannot blame VT officials no one couldve foresaw what happened. Im just sick and really down about the whole thing. God Bless VT.[/quote]

You don't have to foresee a tragedy of this proportion to know that if someone shot two people and they still are at large, then there's a risk they could shoot again.

You can't assume you know it's a domestic problem. You can't assume the crime is completed, once a man has crossed that line and actually taken someone's life, it becomes much easier for them to continue taking lives. You can't assume anything until the guy has been caught.

I mean, weigh the costs and benefits here. What are the benefits of keeping class open after the first two shootings? Very little. It's not like teachers can't work around a day of missed classes. It's not like your school loses any prestige for closing down. There's no benefit to keeping classes open in that situation. There's only a chance that the shooter is still armed and dangerous. There's no point in keeping class open, that decision was irresponsible.

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Honestly, I've seen classes canceled quicker due to snow.

But just as the radio has said all day, today is not a day to point fingers in my opinion. The details will come and we'll find out more, but I am listening to the radio and all it's nothing but people bitching how the situation was handled.

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[QUOTE=paulskinsfan;298569]Im from SW Va, my family all went to VT, and my heart is breaking today for one of the most beautiful places in the country. I know that at a time like this we want to blame someone, but the only person to blame is the sick son of a bitch that did this. I can't blame VT officials. The first two shootings appeared domestic and isolated. Imagine shootings such as that taking place at a trailer park, and the local police try to shut down an entire city fearing additional shootings. A college campus like VT is pretty big, with thousands of students. When additional shootings did not take place for over two hours, who could have known he was going to other places on campus. No, I cannot blame VT officials no one couldve foresaw what happened. Im just sick and really down about the whole thing. God Bless VT.[/QUOTE]

there is a gigantic difference between a college and a city. they could easily say classes are canceled no1 go to class stay inside.

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[QUOTE=SmootSmack;298561]Cho Seng-Hui is his name, Big C does the name sound familiar?[/QUOTE]

no it does not. im glad i never knew a bastard like that

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Haven't they said that they were pursuing a suspect at the time of the second shooting? If so doesn't that shed some light on why they didn't cancel classes? If they thought they knew where the suspect was then not canceling classes may make sense.

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[QUOTE=FRPLG;298598]Haven't they said that they were pursuing a suspect at the time of the second shooting? If so doesn't that shed some light on why they didn't cancel classes? If they thought they knew where the suspect was then not canceling classes may make sense.[/QUOTE]
I could be wrong, as I often am, but I thought I heard that they had "a person of interest" in custody at the time of the second shooting.

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[quote=RobH4413;298148][B]I find it hard to believe that he got off that many rounds without someone taking him down. [/B]

This is so tragic.

I just talked to my engineering buddy and he's very shaken up, he didn't really say much, just that he was okay and he'd talk to me later.

I'm wondering whether or not he was in the building. This shit is insane.[/quote]

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[/COLOR] First of all, prayers for the families, friends and survivors. I'm glad none of our own here at WP were victims. This is horrible.

Aside from the shooter being an insane idiot with no morals, gun control IS THE REASON that 32 people are dead (aside from this monster who should have died anyways). This campus banned guns. This means no security guards had guns and they had no on-campus police patrolling the area regularly. Without this stupid policy, the shooter could have been taken out after his first shot, but instead, he was the only person with a gun and was free to kill as many people as he wanted. This is probably one of the reasons he was allowed to go on a second shooting spree 2 hours after his first two murders. Fleeing or not, the guy needed taken out after shooting two people. Screw the laws saying you can't shoot someone in the back and the "no guns on this happy campus" rules too. I'm definately NOT saying 18-22 year-old college students should have guns, MOST should not, but security and some trained administrators (probably anti-gun people though) should have guns in case of emergency, just as airline pilots should.

This proves again that guns are NECESSARY in society for people to defend themselves. It also proves again that gun control does not save lives, it COSTS them because when you take the guns away from responsible citizens who are the far majority of gun owners, they have no way to defend themselves from criminals and murderers. The criminals and murderers will ALWAYS have guns despite any laws written and enforced against innocent citizens, that's WHY they are called criminals! Laws mean nothing to them![COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][URL="http://www.fantasybaseballcafe.com/"]

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[quote=mredskins;298234]Schneed10 I agree with you!

People are trying to point the finger as to why this happen. It is really easy some sick F decide he would play god today. WE CAN"T MANAGE OUR LIVES AROUND THE 1%.[/quote]


Well said.

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I've never really bought into the whole, "if only more people had more guns we could solve the problems caused by people having guns" argument. It sounds a lot like circular logic. Moreover, although the NRA hates to admit it, the police almost always oppose laws to effect such ideas.

But, I'm not so concerned about how to solve the gun problem. I'm just more upset for all the victims and their families.

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me getting interviewed

[url=http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=48782&src=041707_0954_TOPSTORY_gunman_identified]Videos, News Videos, Top Story Videos, Headline News Videos & More | Reuters.com[/url]

im the first one interviewed in this vid

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298605]I've never really bought into the whole, "if only more people had more guns we could solve the problems caused by people having guns" argument. It sounds a lot like circular logic. Moreover, although the NRA hates to admit it, the police almost always oppose laws to effect such ideas.

But, I'm not so concerned about how to solve the gun problem. [B]I'm just more upset for all the victims and their families.[/B][/quote]

Yes, we all should be. However, there IS an issue to address after a period to honor the lost and greive for them so a copycat crime doesn't happen, which is always a concern with school shootings. (was a problem after Columbine)

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[QUOTE=Buster;298610]Yes, we all should be. However, there IS an issue to address after a period to honor the lost and greive for them so a copycat crime doesn't happen, which is always a concern with school shootings. (was a problem after Columbine)[/QUOTE]

I'm fine with discussing the issue, but I don't want to upset anyone who has a special connection to the event or the victims. It would seem kind of strange (at least to me) to get into a debate about the merits of gun ownership, gun laws, etc. when some people may be grieving.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298605]I've never really bought into the whole, "if only more people had more guns we could solve the problems caused by people having guns" argument. It sounds a lot like circular logic. Moreover, although the NRA hates to admit it, the police almost always oppose laws to effect such ideas.

But, I'm not so concerned about how to solve the gun problem. I'm just more upset for all the victims and their families.[/quote]


I agree.

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We have a rare thing in this country. It's Freedom. Something most of the world knows nothing about. As long as we don't get crazy, we can do whatever we want. No hassles. No check points. No illegal searches. No "disappearing citizens" without explanation. The down side of that has been demonstrated several times in the last few years. We saw it again yesterday at the campus of Virginia tech.
NO amount of police, security, Crisis planning, Govt intervention, listening devices, etc will GUARANTEE this (and things like it) cannot happen again.
The question is, HOW MUCH are we willing to give up to try?
How much of our PRECIOUS freedom are we willing to sacrifice to safeguard against what COULD happen.
Not to plagiarize Schneed, but do we really want to live our lives around the 1%????

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

Food for thought:

"...nobody seems to be aware that there have been incidents in which firearms played a key role in stopping school violence.

Perhaps the most significant was the Jan. 16, 2002 shooting spree at the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, VA. A Nigerian student named Peter Odighizuwa went on a rampage, gunning down six people, three of them fatally, before other students stopped him. The media appears to have deliberately omitted the fact that two of those students, Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges, were armed. (legal conceal-and-carry guns)

Teenage gunman Luke Woodham, who perpetrated the 1997 school shooting at a high school in Pearl, MS, was also brought to an abrupt halt at gunpoint.

This time, assistant principal Joel Myrick, retrieved a .45-caliber handgun from his car, parked off campus, and held the youth at gunpoint until police arrived. Again, the major media ignored Myrick’s heroism with a gun."

Source: [url=http://www.gunweek.com/2004/college0520.html]GunWeek.com[/url]

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[quote=Schneed10;298258]You pretty much hit the nail on the head. And the 0.0000001% is probably more accurate.

It seems REALLY cold to say given that it JUST happened this morning, but this is a freak thing. The odds of you sitting in class minding your own beezewax and getting shot by someone who's gone off the deep end are infinitesimally small. The fact that this rampage JUST happened does not change those odds.

Your odds of hitting the powerball, of getting struck by lightning, or of getting attacked by dogs on your way to lunch are probably similar in size.

I wouldn't make any policy decisions. Over the coming days, emotions will run high and people will point fingers, but nobody will be able to agree on who is to blame for this. And that's because there is nobody to blame except the guy who did it, and he's already dead. It's an unfortunate reality, you can't be everywhere at all times to stop evil every time it rears it's ugly head.

Unless you want to hand over a huge portion of your paycheck for total security.[/quote]

I agree! It would be like mananging your money on the off chance you may win the lottery someday. It would just be dumb!

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Pierson Prioleau is a grad of Virginia Tech and will be on the Bram Weinstein show today (Triple X) to discuss events

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I think a lot of people confuse gun control with gun non-existence. They are not the same thing. Gun control means law abiding citizens who could be reasonably responsible with guns are unable to carry guns while those who are evil enough to do something like this probably have no qualms about illegally obtaining guns. If gun control meant we could actually eliminate all guns in the entire country then I'd be all for it. Until we can figure that out I am wary of gun control beyond obvious reasonable measures like assault weapons bans. I have never undesrtood why anyone is opposed to that type of limited gun control.

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[quote=Hog1;298619]We have a rare thing in this country. It's Freedom. Something most of the world knows nothing about. As long as we don't get crazy, we can do whatever we want. No hassles. No check points. No illegal searches. No "disappearing citizens" without explanation. The down side of that has been demonstrated several times in the last few years. We saw it again yesterday at the campus of Virginia tech.
NO amount of police, security, Crisis planning, Govt intervention, listening devices, etc will GUARANTEE this (and things like it) cannot happen again.
The question is, HOW MUCH are we willing to give up to try?
How much of our PRECIOUS freedom are we willing to sacrifice to safeguard against what COULD happen.
Not to plagiarize Schneed, but do we really want to live our lives around the 1%????[/quote]

Exactly.

What if the guy lit a can of gasoline and killed people...what, we ban cans of gas? Everyone must buy electric lawnmowers?

The gun did nothing wrong. It is an instrument for good used by a bad person, just as a car, a hammer, a chainsaw, ANYTHING else could be.

We shouldn't make excuses for him like he wasn't hugged or we don't "treat" the mentally-derranged well enough. He made the decision to kill people. He and ONLY he is to blame. We shouldn't start firing the police chiefs and school administrators (although they did make mistakes) because of one psycho's decision to kill people. Also, we should not take away the freedoms guaranteed to every citizen by the 2nd Amendment because of a criminal. Taking away guns won't stop people like this, it will only make their job easier and more "successful". When the government takes away our ability to defend ourselves, it will make the task of stripping any andevery other freedom very easy.

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The girl killed in the dorm (Emily) grew up in the same place Daseal & I did. I knew her and her older sister fairly well a few years back, but lost touch as we got older. My parents run a softball league out here and both sisters played. Their father helped coach. Good people. Very sad.

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[QUOTE=Beemnseven;298117]Well, that's sorta the point I was making.

Anytime something like this happens you always hear the question being asked -- what if just one person had access to a firearm to defend him or herself?

I think it's a legitimate question.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more. I don't want to start an argument in a thread about something so tragic but if this country encouraged RESPONSIBLE gun ownership, losers like this guy would feel a little less safe in randomly attacking the public. Had one kid or teacher in those rooms been carrying a firearm who's to say the number of dead and wounded wouldn't be reduced. People get scared when they think of others carrying weapons, and understandably so, but in a scenario where only the criminals carry guns, responsible citizens lose every time.

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[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298605]I've never really bought into the whole, "if only more people had more guns we could solve the problems caused by people having guns" argument. It sounds a lot like circular logic. Moreover, although the NRA hates to admit it, the police almost always oppose laws to effect such ideas.

But, I'm not so concerned about how to solve the gun problem. I'm just more upset for all the victims and their families.[/QUOTE]

Put like that, it is circular logic. Put like this, it's not: Guns are a reality. Because of their desire to take advantage of others and put themselves in a position of superiority, criminals will always have guns. Because of this fact, it is only responsible for a law abiding citizen to have an equal means of protecting his or herself from attack. Were we living in a vacuum that we could outlaw guns entirely and ensure that NO ONE had them, then yes I could completely agree with your point, absolutely. But it's too late for that now, there's millions of firearms in circulation and you have to act accordingly. Also... there's the 2nd amendment which is an entirely separate issue.

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This is an except from an e-mail I received by a good friend of mine. He was the guy I was worried about initially (the engineering major) in the thread. I felt that his thoughts/feelings were something worth sharing to the board. He was in the building 100ft away from where the 2nd shooting took place.

[quote][INDENT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]The 5 people sat in one corner of our classroom by themselves. After sever tense moments, a friend and I approached the two girls who were crying, and we each began comforting them. I rubbed the girl’s back, had someone get her some water, and just began talking to her. After a few minutes she was able to start talking things out and eventually she was able to tell us what had happened. I will retell the girl’s story as it was engraved in my mind:[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial] She was in a classroom in Norris, seated near the door, when she heard gunshots fired in the hall. Her and the student next to her got up and peaked their heads out the door to see what the noise was. They saw the gunman, and he turned and saw them. He raised the gun and pointed it at them as he walked toward them. They quickly slammed the door shut and barricaded themselves in with desks. They stood at the door and held it shut along with a number of other students. The gunman attempted to enter, and when he couldn’t, he fired two rounds into the door—none of which penetrated completely through the door. (Later the business woman who was escorted into our room would show us a fragment of the bullet she had pulled from the door). The girl said she could hear him running through the halls firing rounds, reloading, and firing more. A while later, SWAT team members came into their classroom and began evacuating people out and bringing them to Randolph hall where I was held in lock down. As she was being escorted through the halls, she saw several dead bodies on the ground and blood throughout the halls. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[/INDENT][INDENT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial] The girl told me that when she saw the shooter, she saw his face. She saw that he was sad, and she told me that she actually felt sorry for him. This didn’t hit me right away, because at that time, everything was very chaotic. But after returning home later in the day and realizing the magnitude of this incident, I began to think about the girl’s story and how personal this really was. I realized that this girl literally starred down the barrel of a 9mm handgun, but she looked beyond it and saw the man holding it. She had mercy on this man as he was threatening her life with his very presence. For the rest of the day, the death toll climbed, and I kept thinking about the victims, their families, and how this would affect the world’s view of the school that I call my home. But still more, I thought about the gunman. This is a person who cracked. We have no idea what the motive was or even who this man is. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[/INDENT][INDENT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial] I want to say this; when the media releases the name of this man, say a prayer for him by name. Say a prayer for his family by name. Do not curse him, though you may curse this event. As Christians—as people—we are called to be merciful. I want to be as merciful as the girl I sat with in Randolph today. I know I will be filled with this inevitable feeling of anger, and maybe hatred toward this man when they announce his name, but I will put that aside, and I will ask God to bless the family that survives him. God loves this man as much as He loves the people he killed. So let us not pray for the 32 victims and the single gunman, instead let us pray for the 33 human souls that met God today. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[/INDENT][INDENT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial] Thank you for all of your prayers. I know a lot of you tried contacting me and were unable to get a hold of me because of the jammed cellular circuits, so I’m sorry if I have been unable to respond to all of you. I have been bombarded with voicemails, text messages, instant messages, emails, and facebook posts. I’m blessed to have so many people who are concerned about me, and I cherish that even more on a day like today. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[/INDENT][INDENT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial] Pray for Virginia Tech as a whole community. It is a beautiful place that has never seen anything like this before this year, and I can’t wait until we are all able to enjoy being out on the gorgeous campus without looking over our shoulders or starring down the suspicious person we see walking towards us. Pray that people, when they are done morning, are able to look past this tragedy and try to find the good that God has waiting for our campus.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/INDENT][/quote]

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I have been hearing some people on CNN saying that this tragedy was part of our National preception off violence because of TV and video games. They are saying that we need to change what we do, what we watch, and what we play. I am of the firm belief that this horrific incident has nothing to do with American culture and has more to do with a person committing a horrible and unforseeable act. My prayers and thoughts are with all families, students, and friends of those affected by this tragedy.

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ROB- that is a vey moving email thank you so much for passing it on

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[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;298662]I have been hearing some people on CNN saying that this tragedy was part of our National preception off violence because of TV and video games. They are saying that we need to change what we do, what we watch, and what we play. I am of the firm belief that this horrific incident has nothing to do with American culture and has more to do with a person committing a horrible and unforseeable act. My prayers and thoughts are with all families, students, and friends of those affected by this tragedy.[/quote]

That's ridiculous. If TV and games had that much of an influence on society, these crimes would be commonplace, not a horrifying exception. Someone with a mental issue may be unable to distinguish reality from a virtual "killing", but you can't blame the game or TV show. I'm sure there have been psychotic people who have gotten a murder idea from a book before, so should be ban books too?

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298670]Not that anyone has, but how can anyone blame American culture for this tragedy when the kid was a resident alien from South Korea? I highly doubt that American culture turned this kid overnight from a "normal" one into a mass murderer.
[/quote]

Yes, if he was so appalled by our culture, he would not have come here to take advantage of our education system.

Has anyone considered though, that if he did this because he hated America, that possibly the professors at the school he shot up actually put the propoganda in his head? College professors are being well-known for preaching political propaganda instead of the actual class subject and MOST of them are anti-American.

I'm not blaming anyone else but him for his cowardly acts of violence, there is NO justification for it...but I am hearing a lot about him doing this because of some notes he wrote about hating America or our culture.
[url=http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108&page=1]ABC News: Killer's Note: 'You Caused Me to Do This'[/url]

More updates: he was on a student visa AND his handgun had the serial numbers filed off...no gun control would've stopped him from obtaining a black market gun illegally without proper legal identification.

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Buster, I just deleted my post that you quoted since he has apparently been in the States since the age of 9.

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[QUOTE=Buster;298678]More updates: he was on a student visa AND his handgun had the serial numbers filed off...no gun control would've stopped him from obtaining a black market gun illegally without proper legal identification.[/QUOTE]

I'm trying to avoid all debate right now, but didn't the police find a receipt for the purchase of the 9mm in his backpack? If so, that suggests he bought the guns legally.

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That e-mail talking about forgiveness is noble and is a great way to cope with the losses. We SHOULD have a forgiving heart like God intends. However, it is tough to believe the guy just "snapped". This was obviously planned out. He had several weapons, the first bought March 13, filed the serial numbers off, chained some doors shut ahead of time so students could not escape, killed a couple, went back to his room and reloaded and packed a backpack with knives and more ammo and proceded to do some more human hunting. He also wrote and left notes explaining his actions.

He wasn't instantly pushed to these actions by someone's words or actions, he planned it out and thought about it long enough to decide it was what he really wanted to do. It would be somewhat easier to forgive and feel sympathy if he was for instance a bus driver who lost his temper and crashed...but this was a cold, calculating killer who knew EXACTLY what he was doing. If he planned it out while on some bad medication or something, he's probably realize something's not right when he goes to do the shooting. This wasn't a plan thrown together in a single morning.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;298683]I'm trying to avoid all debate right now, but didn't the police find a receipt for the purchase of the 9mm in his backpack? If so, that suggests he bought the guns legally.[/quote]

If that's the case, he forged some ID somewhere. He's not a legal permanent resident of VA, which is a requirement for gun purchases.

Also, why would be file off serial numbers if everything was legal and legit, especially if he's going to kill himself anyways?

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[QUOTE=Buster;298685]If that's the case, he forged some ID somewhere. He's not a legal permanent resident of VA, which is a requirement for gun purchases.

Also, why would be file off serial numbers if everything was legal and legit, especially if he's going to kill himself anyways?[/QUOTE]The article that I just read, the one you posted, said that he was legally allowed to buy the guns in VA because he was a permanent resident.

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Weird twist: he had "ISMAIL X" written in red ink on his arm.

Here's what I could find about the meaning: "The reference may be to a passage in the Koran referring to Abraham's destruction of pagan idols; in some accounts, he uses an ax to do so."

Re: Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;298691]The article that I just read, the one you posted, said that he was legally allowed to buy the guns in VA because he was a permanent resident.[/quote]

If that's the case, maybe they should consider changing their Commonwealth law from "resident" to "citizen".

Non-citizens of the United States have no protections under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, including the 1st and 2nd Amendments.