Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;330962]Without pay you say? For an entire season? What for? So I can drown on my own sorrow? No one but fans think about what's best for the team. I mean, you don't go into work everyday and think to yourself "by god, I'm going to do what's best for the team."

Sure, if you have TB you probably would, and rightly should, think of others first but when it comes down to your paycheck, your team and your employer it's all about you. It's all business. Pay me to sit at home if you want me to "take unpaid time off" otherwise see you tomorrow Bob.[/QUOTE]

Whoops major typo on my part. I meant "with pay"

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;330974]All fair points Saden. We merely differ in our opinions as to what the NFL should be able to do here, regardless of the outcome of US v. Vick. I also agree that celebs like Vick are people just like you and me and should be held to the same standard (not higher or lower).[/quote]

It the case of a celeb, I would agree, I think.. but he's really a rold model for young athletes by being an NFL star. It comes with being who he is... It's not like he's Paris Hilton.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=hesscl34;330973]No, they are not only respnosible for themselves. Not when they have thousands of young kids looking up to them.

And I wasn't talking about "you" saying that.. just over all.[/quote]

Ah, role model for this kids argument. We have to show the kids how bad of a man he is? That'll teach them a valuable life lesson not to do as he did.

What if Vick is not convicted? What's the lesson there? Money talks bullshit walks? Become a pro athlete and you can get away with anything?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=saden1;330977]Ah, role model for this kids argument. We have to show the kids how bad of a man he is? That'll teach them a valuable life lesson not to do as he did.

What if Vick is not convicted? What's the lesson there? Money talks bullshit walks? Become a pro athlete and you can get away with anything?[/quote]

Let's be realistic here. We all know he was involved.. if he gets off, then good for him (for having a smart lawyer), but at the end of the day he WAS involved, and that is enough I think for the NFL to take action. They have tape of him telling one of the owners to kill a dog... how is that not involved? If I were in his shoes I'd be thankful for the gift of my talent, I wouldn't be throwing it away for some thug dog fighting ring. The NFL needs a serious "clean up" in my opinon. Give these kids something to strive for, to have a better life.... don't turn a blind eye and let them be criminals AND pro athletes.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I think we've had some very well thought out posts and good arguments on both sides of the fence.

In my opinion the best and most reasonable way for the NFL to handle this is to remove themselves from trying to determine whether or not Vick is actually guilty of a crime or not; They need to, and I believe they will, make their decision independent of the courts, the judge, or what any lawyer provides. The NFL would do themselves an injustice, in my opinion, of attempting to play the role of lawyer or judge.

Goodell's intention is to clean up the image of the NFL. Period. And sometimes that involves hardcore evidence and guilt beyond reasonable doubt and sometimes it doesn't. If Goodell makes his decision based on Vick's criminal involvement or lack thereof, then justice, according to the NFL, may not run truly run its course. Because it's the image and the perception of the league that the Commish is trying to restore. And on that basis, I think Vick will be, at the very least, suspended for several games, if not the entire season.

Now if the court of law later determines that Vick is actually guilty of said crimes, then obviously the NFL must submit to the higher authority and either extend Vick's suspension indefinetely or ban him from the league all together.

My 12 cents.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

4 games, if for no other reason than to let Joey Harrington accrue even MORE negative QB value in his career.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=12thMan;330984]I think we've had some very well thought out posts and good arguments on both sides of the fence.

In my opinion the best and most reasonable way for the NFL to handle this is to remove themselves from trying to determine whether or not Vick is actually guilty of a crime or not; They need to, and I believe they will, make their decision independent of the courts, the judge, or what any lawyer provides. The NFL would do themselves an injustice, in my opinion, of attempting to play the role of lawyer or judge.

Goodell's intention is to clean up the image of the NFL. Period. And sometimes that involves hardcore evidence and guilt beyond reasonable doubt and sometimes it doesn't. If Goodell makes his decision based on Vick's criminal involvement or lack thereof, then justice, according to the NFL, may not run truly run its course. Because it's the image and the perception of the league that the Commish is trying to restore. And on that basis, I think Vick will be, at the very least, suspended for several games, if not the entire season.

Now if the court of law later determines that Vick is actually guilty of said crimes, then obviously the NFL must submit to the higher authority and either extend Vick's suspension indefinetely or ban him from the league all together.

My 12 cents.[/quote]

Now let's think... what would the redskins do if this was one of their players?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=hesscl34;330988]Now let's think... what would the redskins do if this was one of their players?[/quote]well they would obviously be innocent silly. NO action needed.


Note: Sean Taylor. Joe Gibbs knew with he divine power that ST would not be guilty and therefore used his judgment not to take action.


Taylor did sit out one game for his DUI (which he wasn't guilty of because he is a redskin). It was the Green Bay game. I forget the exact reasoning but it wasn't exactly for the DUI. Anyone remember?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I know this wasn't a option but I say 6 with the chance of going up to 2 years pending a conviction.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=BigSKINBauer;330989]well they would obviously be innocent silly. NO action needed.


Note: Sean Taylor. Joe Gibbs knew with he divine power that ST would not be guilty and therefore used his judgment not to take action.


Taylor did sit out one game for his DUI (which he wasn't guilty of because he is a redskin). It was the Green Bay game. I forget the exact reasoning but it wasn't exactly for the DUI. Anyone remember?[/quote]


Pretty sure it was because he missed a meeting.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Vick is Finished! There is no way in the world that he is going to recover from this. If I am proven wrong then so be it. I would love to see him return to a successfull career after his suspension (which I believe will last an entire season). The problem is that the negative publicity is going to overshadow any chace of him making a legitimate comeback. This reminds me of Mike Tyson when he got imprissioned and never returned to the form of his prime.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Paintrain;330886]What past record? Please detail all of his previous legal transgressions.

I don't want to come off as a Vick apologist but the whole 'ban him for the season, the team should suspend/bench him' before anything has been heard in court is a bit over the top. The accusations in the indictment are heinous, I had dogs for years and if anyone did what he's accused of I want them hung by their balls and beaten with baseball bats. But for right now, that's all they are, [B][I][U]accusations.[/U][/I][/B]

There is zero correlation to PacMan, Henry, Tank or anyone else. They all had repeated arrests, pleas and numerous troubles with the law. Vick was never arrested, charged or convicted in the Miami airport incident. He was a model citizen (as far as any of us knew) on and off the field before his middle finger incident late last year.

I wonder if some people are confusing Marcus Vick's previous trouble and are using guilt by name association to think he's been in the news negatively for a long time.

If he's guilty his suspension will be a vacation compared to his sentence. I still think he'll plead it out after the season, spend 4-8 months in jail and be suspended the 1st 8 games of '08.[/quote]

Ok maybe RECORD was the wrong word, look at his past actions always doing something wrong, hmmm waterbottle with a hide away spot , the female a while back, the way he treats fans, shows you what kind of person he is, hmm and HE owns the property, i dont care who is living on it he is responsible as is any landlord, if the residents get busted selling drugs the govt can seize the house. also what happened with McNair he wasnt driving but he owned the car.. but still got the dwi.
Just his actions tend to tell you what kind of person he is but then everyone will have their own opinion. So we will see what this judge says..

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Dlyne8r;330793]Everyone on this board has offered very valid reasons for their choice in how many games Vick should be suspended, if any at all. That’s what makes this site so good: intelligent and informed conversation. But what frustrates me so much is this one simple thing: If this incident involved me or any one else on this board, we would be facing insurmountable obstacles. In fact, we most likely would lose our jobs, our income, and even worse, our families. Even if we had NOT been given the opportunity to go through the legal system. Why then should an athlete, or a celebrity, people that have huge amounts of income, be treated any different than we average people?[/quote]

I totally agree, I still am pissed they let Ray Lewis off for obstruction of justice, when he could have been the perp in the murder he was involved in. They nailed Rae Carruth for murder, but kept Ray Lewis on the field. This was a very big mistake and probably was the precedent that kicked off all this bad behavior. $$$$$$$$$ and prestige can keep you above the law. Just look at OJ and our so called "leaders" in DC. When men are above the law in any nation, look out!!!!!!!

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Rae Carruth...ugh, what a slimy bastard. There are other options besides plotting to have your pregnant wife murdered

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;331039]Rae Carruth...ugh, what a slimy bastard. There are other options besides plotting to have your pregnant wife murdered[/QUOTE]

And with all his money, you would think he would have done it in a smarter way.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;330994]Pretty sure it was because he missed a meeting.[/quote]
Article from that game says he was suspended after a DWI arrest.
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13594-2004Oct31.html]Illegal-Motion Sickness (washingtonpost.com)[/url]

"Green Bay scored on its first three possessions with Favre (playing his 197th consecutive game) attacking the Redskins' undermanned secondary; starting safeties Matt Bowen (injury) and Sean Taylor (suspended after a DWI arrest) were out and replacement Andre Lott left with an injury in the first half. "


F...ing article makes me remember the worst call i have ever, ever, ever, ever, ever seen. It was such a good play too. I mean, that was highlight material right there. I remember where i was. In the basement of my old house. I saw the play while talking on the phone with a friend. The play happened and i ran out the room. While screaming for joy my friend told me to STFU because there was a flag. I begged it not to be a holding call. Stupid ref. F... that ref.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;331039]Rae Carruth...ugh, what a slimy bastard. There are other options besides plotting to have your pregnant wife murdered[/quote]

Wasn't there a Dolphin, Cecil Collins that got busted for something?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I'm sure it's been said, but he shouldn't have any punishment until after trail etc.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Hagams: So you're against the pac-man jones suspension too? He hasn't been convicted of a damn thing either. When this policy came out I said I didn't like the grey area giving Goodell lots of room to decide.

Michael Vick went into the commish's office and said "I didn't do it" and this indictment is pretty damn in depth and the feds nearly always get convictions (mid 90%s). I see Vick being gone for the season just for giving the league a black eye.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Had he admitted to the commissioner his involvement earlier I would have said 4 to 6 games. As it's turning out, a full season.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;330963]Moreover, employers can suspend or fire employees based on hearsay or other types of evidence that a jury would never hear. Employers need not conduct mini-trials or await criminal convictions before firing an employee for inappropriate conduct. People do and should get fired all the time for sexual harassment, racist remarks, etc. even though no trial was held. I'm not sure why we have elevated the "right" to play in the NFL above what it is.....a job.

I don't think many Vick supporters would be happy if some jerk at work who made racist remarks or who exercised his right to free speech by bearing a swastika tat on his forehead had to be convicted of a crime before an employer could fire him.[/quote]

Excellent post Sheriff.

This is the point that I think a lot of people are missing. I'm not saying throw the guy in jail......that's for the courts to decide. But if the NFL has shown anything under the new conduct policy, it's that they do not have to wait for a conviction from a criminal trial to suspend players. And this is completely consistent with the same standard that 90% of the rest of us in the real world live with every day. Would it suck if Vick was eventually found innocent after being suspended? You bet. Would it also suck if Pacman was found innocent of his alleged crimes after being suspended? Apparently it wouldn't because there wasn't nearly this much support for Pacman when Goodell's decision was handed down on him. What's the difference?

Is it that Vick has been put on Madden covers and paraded around as the NFL poster child all these years while Pacman was villified (and justifiably so) since being drafted? So is our perception that Vick is somehow a better person who deserves a higher level of "justice" than Pacman because of what we've been told (or sold) all these years? They are both being accused of terrible, criminal behavior since coming into the league.....it just took longer for it to catch up with Vick......that doesn't make him any better of a person than Pacman. In fact, if both players are found guilty of what each one is being accused of, I could argue that Vick is actually a worse person than Pacman. But the fact is neither one has been convicted yet.....but one sits at home while the other may be left alone by the NFL. I can't help but think that the NFL wouldn't have such a hard time with this if this was Brandon Lloyd's house and he was the subject of this indictment.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21;331204] I can't help but think that the NFL wouldn't have such a hard time with this if this was Brandon Lloyd's house and he was the subject of this indictment.[/quote]
I never thought of it that way. Great point!

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Daseal;331193]Hagams: So you're against the pac-man jones suspension too? He hasn't been convicted of a damn thing either. When this policy came out I said I didn't like the grey area giving Goodell lots of room to decide.

Michael Vick went into the commish's office and said "I didn't do it" and this indictment is pretty damn in depth and the feds nearly always get convictions (mid 90%s). I see Vick being gone for the season just for giving the league a black eye.[/quote]
What do you think he would have told the commish that he did it and get suspended for dog fighting before he was even indicted? I don't think that would make much sense.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Some have said that an employer could fire any of us if we had those types of charges leveled agsinst us and thats not totaly true. It depends on the state and the employer/employee's contract if they even have one. In Virginia we have a right to work state and we can fire someone for just about any reason. Other states have laws which protect the employee and they have rights which could prevent an employer from firing them before any trial. I would think that the laws in Georgia would have to be considered before they could outright fire Vick. I guess what I'm saying is that there is allot of legal stuff that goes on and I'm sure the NFL and the Falcons are looking into all of their options. This indictment came as a big surprise and I'm not surprised that nothing has been done by either party as of yet.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;330967]I highly doubt Vick is innocent but I don't like the notion that we convict someone before he's convicted in court (civil and criminal). It would set an unbelievable precedence to have people convicted by their employer merely for being indicted/investigate.

No doubt, your employer will want you out if you're under suspicion for a criminal act but they don't terminate you right there and then. You reach an agreement and part company amicably.

Sure, they can fire you at will but the truth is there is no such thing when you know your rights. If you're unjustly terminated you have recourse through the court system. Bob, meet my lawyer. His name is John Payme and he likes to get paid and so do I Bob.[/QUOTE]

If the NFL suspended Vick, it wouldn't mean that they had "convicted" him of anything. It wouldn't reflect their opinion of his guilt, and it wouldn't have ANYTHING to do with the charges. It would have EVERYTHING to do with the fact that they don't want players with countless dead dogs buried in their backyard, 50 dogs tied to car axles in the back yard, bloody carpet, etc in the league. It isn't good for business.

It's simple: if you're an asshole, your employer could fire you. If you smell bad, your employer could fire you. If you engage in unethical behavior, or are suspected of such behavior, your employer could fire you. I believe every employer has that right, and I don't think there is a single thing wrong with it.

Another thing: so much of this is based on [B]physical[/B] evidence -- not some witness that could be wrong or have an axe to grind. It is clear that Vick owned property where this evidence was found -- he is not disputing that. His only defense is that he didn't know, and that is a totally weak argument.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;331220]If the NFL suspended Vick, it wouldn't mean that they had "convicted" him of anything. It wouldn't reflect their opinion of his guilt, and it wouldn't have ANYTHING to do with the charges. It would have EVERYTHING to do with the fact that they don't want players with countless dead dogs buried in their backyard, 50 dogs tied to car axles in the back yard, bloody carpet, etc in the league. It isn't good for business.

It's simple: if you're an asshole, your employer could fire you. If you smell bad, your employer could fire you. If you engage in unethical behavior, or are suspected of such behavior, your employer could fire you. I believe every employer has that right, and I don't think there is a single thing wrong with it.

Another thing: so much of this is based on [B]physical[/B] evidence -- not some witness that could be wrong or have an axe to grind. It is clear that Vick owned property where this evidence was found -- he is not disputing that. His only defense is that he didn't know, and that is a totally weak argument.[/quote]
Not knowning is not a totaly week argument but is really his only argument. People have said that if a person is selling drugs from an apartment or a house they rent that the cops could take the house from the landlord which is not correct. If this was the case about 80% of drug bust are in rental properties and the landlords never loose the property or have legal issues. Now if the landlord allowed crimes to go on then the cops could take the property. I'm not trying to defend Vick with this but only clearing up the issue of the landlords.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I voted zero games, because he has not been convicted of any crimes so far. He has no prior convictions or allegations. The Falcons should suspend him without pay for the season and allow him to take care of his legal problems and to divorce themselves from the media barrage. If he is found guilty, the league should suspend him indefinitely and the Falcons should release him. If he is exonerated, no suspension should be given.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;331228]I voted zero games, because he has not been convicted of any crimes so far. He has no prior convictions or allegations. The Falcons should suspend him without pay for the season and allow him to take care of his legal problems and to divorce themselves from the media barrage. If he is found guilty, the league should suspend him indefinitely and the Falcons should release him. If he is exonerated, no suspension should be given.[/quote]
We don't know if the Falcons have the legal right to suspend him without pay but they can with pay.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;331220]If the NFL suspended Vick, it wouldn't mean that they had "convicted" him of anything. It wouldn't reflect their opinion of his guilt, and it wouldn't have ANYTHING to do with the charges. It would have EVERYTHING to do with the fact that they don't want players with countless dead dogs buried in their backyard, 50 dogs tied to car axles in the back yard, bloody carpet, etc in the league. It isn't good for business.[/quote]

So in essence the NFL can say we don't know if you're guilty but we're going to suspend you anyways because you're suspected of wrong doing? What's the point of our justice system if employers and take upon themselves the power of judge, jury and executioner?

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;331220]It's simple: if you're an asshole, your employer could fire you. If you smell bad, your employer could fire you. If you engage in unethical behavior, or are [B]suspected[/B] of such behavior, your employer could fire you. I believe every employer has that right, and I don't think there is a single thing wrong with it.[/quote]

Without concrete proof or reason? Without offering a substantial severance package for me to go away? Man, you would make a great employee.

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;331220] Another thing: so much of this is based on [B]physical[/B] evidence -- not some witness that could be wrong or have an axe to grind. It is clear that Vick owned property where this evidence was found -- he is not disputing that. His only defense is that he didn't know, and that is a totally weak argument.[/quote]

You're scaring the hell out of me.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

here's the lastest:

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2943276]ESPN - NFL, Falcons may urge Vick to take paid leave - NFL[/url]

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;330963] I don't think many Vick supporters would be happy if some jerk at work who made racist remarks or who exercised his right to free speech by bearing a swastika tat on his forehead had to be convicted of a crime before an employer could fire him.[/quote]

When things like that there is a process the company goes through. The actions of the individual violates standard company harassment and discrimination policy. And I would also wager that a swastika violates company dress code policy. Usually what tends to happen in these types of situations is a) HR puts the individuals on different teams/project, b) HR conducts an investigation into the matter to ascertain the individuals guilt.

If the company thinks you're guilty with reasonable certainty they'll fire you and you can go hit them with a law suite if you're wrongly terminated. This is a clear cut case whilst the Vick case is not. Plus, Vick has money and the NFLPA backing him.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=firstdown;330762]If the leaque suspended him because he was lying wouldn't they be finding him guilty before the trial takes place.[/quote]


Not neccesarily. Depends on what they say he lied about.

They could catch him in lies that aren't crimes.

For example, if he tol the commish he never went to the house, but now he admits he went there x number of times, well that would be a lie, but not a crime.

In this case, I just don't see how any suspension against pac man can stick if they don't suspend MV.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;331226]Not knowning is not a totaly week argument but is really his only argument. People have said that if a person is selling drugs from an apartment or a house they rent that the cops could take the house from the landlord which is not correct. If this was the case about 80% of drug bust are in rental properties and the landlords never loose the property or have legal issues. Now if the landlord allowed crimes to go on then the cops could take the property. I'm not trying to defend Vick with this but only clearing up the issue of the landlords.[/QUOTE]

The question is: was Vick acting as a landlord? Was there a rental agreement? I highly doubt it. In which case, the argument of ignorance is totally weak.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

If he takes a paid leave of abscence for the '07 season (as being reportedly discussed by ESPN) after his trial and sentence, should the league consider it time served regarding a suspensionand let him play once he has paid his debt to society or suspend him another year after that?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;331242]So in essence the NFL can say we don't know if you're guilty but we're going to suspend you anyways because you're suspected of wrong doing? What's the point of our justice system if employers and take upon themselves the power of judge, jury and executioner?[/quote]

Do you *think* Vick had several dog carcasses and over 50 dogs chained to car axles in the backyard, or do you *know*? The FBI discovered that evidence and released the information to the public. Although it is quite possible the FBI is lying, it is not likely at all. So, I'm not talking about the NFL suspending him for *suspicion* of wrong doing. I'm talking about the NFL suspending him for what they already know from the FBI reports, and I don't think that is unreasonable at all.

[QUOTE=saden1;331242]
Without concrete proof or reason? Without offering a substantial severance package for me to go away? Man, you would make a great employee.
[/quote]

I never said I would do that. I am a very loyal person. I just said that I think it is the employer's right, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I cannot justify criticizing an employer's right to choose who they want to do their work. It's their money and they don't *have* to employ anyone if they don't want to.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

NFL, Falcons might urge Vick to take paid leave.
[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2943276]ESPN - NFL, Falcons may urge Vick to take paid leave - NFL[/url]

I don't think Vick will be playing this year.:food-smil

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I only know Virginia. So I have to confess some ignorance as to the state that he is employed in. If he were employed in VA, the employer could dismiss without any reason whatsoever. I believe that the employer would have to be very careful not to give a reason.

That being said, I don't know if Vick is an employee in Georgia, or not. And I also don't know if this argument is apples to oranges or not, because we're talking about suspension, not termination.

Ive always wondered why the player's union supported the commissioner on his conduct policy. I like it, but it seems to infringe heavily on a player's rights. On the other side of the coin, the league should be able to protect itself from an even worse public reaction.

I suppose more players in the league support Tony Dungy's 1% theory, than do not.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;331258]Do you *think* Vick had several dog carcasses and over 50 dogs chained to car axles in the backyard, or do you *know*? The FBI discovered that evidence and released the information to the public. Although it is quite possible the FBI is lying, it is not likely at all. So, I'm not talking about the NFL suspending him for *suspicion* of wrong doing. I'm talking about the NFL suspending him for what they already know from the FBI reports, and I don't think that is unreasonable at all.

I never said I would do that. I am a very loyal person. I just said that I think it is the employer's right, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I cannot justify criticizing an employer's right to choose who they want to do their work. It's their money and they don't *have* to employ anyone if they don't want to.[/quote]


You, me, and the rest of the world not withstanding Vick's claim is that he had no knowledge (total BS IMO) and he has a right to due process. He has a right to have is case heard before any harmful action is taken against him by the league.

This whole matter is pretty self explanatory to me. I don't get why people want him to be suspended ASAP without first getting to the heart of the claim and his defense.


p.s. Even when cops are accused of wrong doing they are first suspended with pay. The same rules that apply to everyone else should apply to Vick as well is all I'm saying.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=saden1;331267]You, me, and the rest of the world not withstanding Vick's claim is that he had no knowledge (total BS IMO) and he has a right to due process. He has a right to have is case heard before any harmful action is taken against him by the league.
[/quote]

Honest question, Saden: were you against the Pacman suspension too?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;331267]You, me, and the rest of the world not withstanding Vick's claim is that he had no knowledge (total BS IMO) and he has a right to due process. He has a right to have is case heard before any harmful action is taken against him by the league.

This whole matter is pretty self explanatory to me. I don't get why people want him to be suspended ASAP without first getting to the heart of the claim and his defense.


p.s. Even when cops are accused of wrong doing they are first suspended with pay. The same rules that apply to everyone else should apply to Vick as well is all I'm saying.[/QUOTE]

You are right. I don't see much harm in waiting. However, he has already done damage to the league, and that is enough justification to suspend him, IMO. I know you might want to say, "we can't conclude that he has [i]personally[/i] done damage, until he is proven guilty. The damage came from the accusations." However, it is very rare that innocent and upstanding citizens have false accusations made about them -- by the FBI -- especially when there is physical evidence.