Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=Cowell;355231]Honestly Donovan is dumb for bringing this up. If anything he might have just sparked a more racial look at quarterbacks. I mean of course it had occurred to me that Jason Campbell was black but I never looked at it that way. And lets not forget and I think the one good thing Charles Barkley did in the booth Monday night was saying how the fans in Philly are tough. They don't really care if you get them to the NFC Championship 3 years in a row they want a Super Bowl. Alas, racism is going to continue to live on as long as people like Donovan McNabb and Jessie Jackson keep doing what they are doing.[/QUOTE]

Cowell.....I'm of the opinion that racism is going to live on as long as we continue to live in a world dominated by white supremacy. This racial divide in America is nothing new to me, I go back to the late 30's. I was there when the first African American QB (James Harris) played his first game in the NFL, where were you? I was there when Warren Moon couldn't get work as a QB in the NFL, had to go to Canada, where were you? I was there when Jim Brown, every time he was tackled after carring the Browns on his back was spat upon and humiliated, called the infamous "N" word, where were you? I was there when it was said no African American would ever play QB in the NFL/or play the Center position, or the MLB position, where were you? I was there when it was said no white QB would ever put his hands up a black man's ass to recieve the ball, thus the Center position was off limits as well for blacks, where were you?

Further, the very team we talk about, and write about here every day was at one time one of the most racist teams in the NFL. They had an owner who vowed no African American players would ever play for him. He pledged to sell the team before he would have one in his employ, thankfully, Edward Bennett Williams put him out of his misery, where were you?

I said all this to say, what McNabb said does not begin to scratch the surface as to just what a racial institution the NFL is, and always has been. It's just unfortunate that many are much too young to be able to grasp the true significance. I can tell you some racial stories about the NFL that would make your head spin, but I've said more already than I actually had intended too.

Good luck with your formula, if you have one that will rid America of this disease called racism.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

give me a break. if he plays better or ever won a big game people wouldnt complain about his play. damn all the sport guys always complain about manning before he won the superbowl.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[quote=SUNRA;355250]First and foremost I respect your view and your sincerity with not wanting to offend anyone. I would like to respond to your comments about what I said.[B] When you spoke of racism among Black people it should be understood that racism is predjudice +power.[/B] The ability to include and exclude. Black people do not have the power to affect other Black or White people's ability to buy a house, car or obtain a business loan. [/quote]

Hogwash! By that standard anyone that doesn't have power can't be racist. I would rather we don't reclassify racist skinheads who have no more power than toilet paper exclusive to the racists circle.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

I know this is off subject, but I am curious...why is it players like David Ortiz, or Vlad, or Pedro Martinez are not considered black?
(despite the obvious that they are from the "dominican republic")

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[quote=jsarno;355271]I know this is off subject, but I am curious...why is it players like David Ortiz, or Vlad, or Pedro Martinez are not considered black?
(despite the obvious that they are from the "dominican republic")[/quote]


Some consider themselves black while others don't despite what [I]appears[/I] to be the obvious. Race classification doesn't work in Latin America the way it works here in America. Here is a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Latin_American"]snippet[/URL] from wikipeida that hits the nail on the head.

[quote]Of a total population of 549,549,000 [in South America] an estimated 100 million are Afro Latin-American [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Latin_American#_note-4"][5][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Latin_American#_note-5"][6][/URL]. Approximately 5% of the Latin American population identify themselves or are classified by census takers as being primarily of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people"]black[/URL] ancestry. A further 16% of the population is [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulatto"]mulatto[/URL], while [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zambo"]Zambos[/URL] are a small minority. By combining all three, another definition of Afro-Latin American is arrived at, one that in Latin America would be widely considered overly broad. (In fact, it would more resemble the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_drop_rule"]one drop rule[/URL] commonly accepted in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States"]United States[/URL]). By such a definition, about one-fourth of Latin America's population would be Afro-Latin American. Another fairly large minority probably has at least [I]some[/I] black African ancestry.[/quote]

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[quote=Longtimefan;355259]Good luck with your formula, if you have one that will rid America of this disease called racism.[/quote]

The only formula that's going to cure the disease is time * commitment.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[quote=saden1;355269]Hogwash! By that standard anyone that doesn't have power can't be racist. I would rather we don't reclassify racist skinheads who have no more power than toilet paper exclusive to the racists circle.[/quote]

If I am understanding SUNRA correctly he was referring to the term "racism" and his description is true. Racism refers to a systematic oppression of one group by another, based on racial inequality. So, it would be difficult to say that the "black community" as a whole engages in racism against the white community as a whole.

The problem of course is that in today's day and age we're a global community and you probably have more of a communal connection with Redskins fans over the Internet than say with the guy who lives in the house down the street from you. Traditional definitions of ethnicity and communities are pretty much broken and things are not as black and white as a lot of talking heads would like you to believe (because that makes for good press).

However, to your point, saying the black community can't engage in racism is somewhat semantical; I'd say that I'm not a member of the power white elite that can really engage in racism against the black community, either. But in either case both black and white people are certainly capable of [I]racist behavior [/I]or prejudicial / bigoted actions, thoiught and speech. Black vs white is only one dimension, but introduce asian and hispanic ethnicities into the equation and you see a lot of historical tension between cultures.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=saden1;355276]Some consider themselves black while others don't despite what [I]appears[/I] to be the obvious. Race classification doesn't work in Latin America the way it works here in America. Here is a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Latin_American"]snippet[/URL] from wikipeida that hits the nail on the head.[/QUOTE]

Very interesting...thanks for the description.

I wonder when the term "white" will no longer be socially accepted instead you'll see "italian american", or "Irish American" etc. We seem to be a society that loves to divide and separate.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=dgack;355277]The only formula that's going to cure the disease is time * commitment.[/QUOTE]


I have always been commited to the cure, much of my work is dedicated to that end, but unfortunately I'm slowly running out of time.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;355281]Very interesting...thanks for the description.

I wonder when the term "white" will no longer be socially accepted instead you'll see "italian american", or "Irish American" etc. We seem to be a society that loves to divide and separate.[/QUOTE]


I wonder how we got that way, do you think it was by accident or design?

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

In Donovan's defense the interview was recorded last month and it's release was very untimely for the Eagles and McNabb @ 0-2. At first I thought they were comments after Monday's loss. They weren't. Taped. Totally outta context. Media. Not a big deal... His point is valid. And wasn't meant to coincide with loss to Redskins.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;355283]I wonder how we got that way, do you think it was by accident or design?[/QUOTE]

I have no clue. But throughout history we've been like this...I personally think it's our personal inadaquacies. The more we feel inadaquate the more we need to feel better about ourselves. No one says "hey, I belong to the homeless gang under the bridge" and be proud of it, but they will say "I belong to the country club" and be proud of it. It our way of making ourselves better than others. This is likely the same response when it comes to competition. We need to be better than the Tom, Dick, or Harry around us. Not everyone has a massive compulsion for this, but we have this inate feeling inside all of us.
So anyway, that's my best guess...I think we are born with it.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

The Irish and Italians weren't exactly highly thought of when they first came here. They were considered trash and a notch above blacks. I would imagine it was more advantageous to just be white rather than be an Irishman or Italian.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

while i feel Mcnabb is way off base with his comments, the timing is horrible. as soon as he starts to play bad, he says this stuff. and i think its funny that when he brings this up, one Mr Jason Campbell is starting right here in D.C. i can almost guarantee you, if you are a black quarterback that can play, you will get your shot.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=jsarno;355117]LOL...that is a racist comment, and blatently untrue.
I have known SEVERAL GREAT white players...shoot lights out...much better than their black counterparts, but because they were not black, they didn't start...or even make the team in some cases.

My buddy, Ken Jones, lived in Fort Myers. He was the #1 player in the state of Florida back in the early 90's in High School. No college team offered him a scholarship.
Why is it OK to accept racism in certain cases, but not others?

This is off the point, and I apologize for it. But what I mentioned is real, what McNabb mentions is imagined. (at least now it is imagined...I agree that it took a lot to get the black QB in the game...Moon and Williams were trailblazers.)[/quote]

LOL! I'm not trying to be a racist cause I'm not at all. But I think it's true. I'm sure there were some white guys that didn't get a chance because of their color. Was your friend one of them? I dont' know but I'm sure if he was that good someone would have found him. But if more white guys could jump higher and run faster then there would be more white guys in the NBA. Don't you think?

Look at schools like Indiana when Knight was coaching. They always have a good number of white players. They are always known as smart, fundamentally sound players. But most of them never make it to the NBA because of their athletic skill level.

You NEVER EVER see white corners or RB's in the NFL. Wr's here and there but not many. Why? Are blacks better athelets? I think there is a little truth to it.

I'll never ever forget when Larry Bird was being interviewed with I think Magic Johnson and someone else. He said he use to love it when white guys in the NBA would try and guard him. Cause he knew he would rip the guy apart. Now why did he say this?? BTW... Larry Bird was one of my favorite NBA players of all time.

I'm black and I love to ski. How come you don't see any black skiers or hockey players? Many white people think it's because we are from a warm climate ( Africa ) and can't take the cold. I mean it's stupid but there is probably some truth to it. I hate the cold but I love to ski!

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[quote=jsarno;355281]Very interesting...thanks for the description.

I wonder when the term "white" will no longer be socially accepted instead you'll see "italian american", or "Irish American" etc. We seem to be a society that loves to divide and separate.[/quote]

Well, for people with strong ties to their heritage this is already true. But I think what you will see in ~50 years is a lot more of this with respect to "non-white" people, especially those who are a product of biracial marriages. As I said a long time ago in this thread, you look at someone like Tiger Woods, who is successful and multiracial, and he breaks a lot of stereotypes and classifications. I think the old school, "keep to yourself" attitudes are slowly dying out with the older generations.

There will always be hardcore bigots, but for every one of them there are dozens and dozens of college kids who have friends / companions / romances with people of many different ethnicities, who seek out and enjoy celebrating the differences of other cultures. And, every generation, the median acceptance of this kind of vibe rises a little, like seawater after a rain.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[quote=dmek25;355305][B]while i feel Mcnabb is way off base with his comments, the timing is horrible. as soon as he starts to play bad, he says this stuff.[/B] and i think its funny that when he brings this up, one Mr Jason Campbell is starting right here in D.C. i can almost guarantee you, if you are a black quarterback that can play, you will get your shot.[/quote]

It was taped from a few weeks ago.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=WillH;355195]

The fact is that the NBA gathers all the best players it can find no matter what race they are or what country they come from. You really think that the NBA scouts would go out of their way to recruit people from Russia or China or whatever the fu*% else small hole in the wall country and at the same time neglect to recruit some of the best players from america because they think "white people can't jump?"

This is shear ignorance!

Just because you have a friend that you expected to make the pros and he wasn't given the respect YOU THINK he deserved does not prove that their is an over-arching bias against white basketball players.
[/quote]

Good points here. The NBA is a profit maximizing business they are not going to spend tons of resources searching all over the world for ballers if there is enough "white" talent at home. It costs more is not practical.

That doesn't mean there is no racism involved in the NBA whether it be black or white, but it's not nearly to the extent as jsarno is claiming it to be. His friend seems to be an point of that case, or hell it could also be another reason we are not sure of. Alot of times good players just don't make it. It just happens. Bad luck or whatever.

Just because you hear about this kinda stuff here and there doesn't mean it is fact. Obviously in this case the sample size isn't even large enough to make an assessment of the entire US population. Therefore we have to fall back to the null assumption, which is that there are small amounts of racism all over the US, but not so much in major sports.(I take alot of Stat classes lol)

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=dgack;355343]Well, for people with strong ties to their heritage this is already true. But I think what you will see in ~50 years is a lot more of this with respect to "non-white" people, especially those who are a product of biracial marriages. As I said a long time ago in this thread, you look at someone like Tiger Woods, who is successful and multiracial, and he breaks a lot of stereotypes and classifications. I think the old school, "keep to yourself" attitudes are slowly dying out with the older generations.

There will always be hardcore bigots, but for every one of them there are dozens and dozens of college kids who have friends / companions / romances with people of many different ethnicities, who seek out and enjoy celebrating the differences of other cultures. And, every generation, the median acceptance of this kind of vibe rises a little, like seawater after a rain.[/QUOTE]

Just gotta say...GREAT SIG!!!! :D

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

McNabb's statements have really changed my opinion of him. He has lost a lot of my respect. I thought we were almost over this issue with Cunningham, Williams, Moon, and more recently V Young(not to overlook others). Who cares really? I think McNabb is strecthing or reaching on his statements. Bad and dumb move McNabb.

P.S. Re: Philly is the worst, toughest, most critical, blah blah blah football town to play in, remember Rypien was booooooed off the field the following season after winning the SB.

Hail

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[QUOTE=WillH;355197]What about Jake the Snake (n reference to scrambling qb's[/QUOTE]

I waited for the thread to die down a little before I blasted this comment.
How can you call plummer a scrambling qb when the most rushing yards he has had in a season is 283...he's had 200 or more yards in a season only 5 times in 10 years. To make matters worse, he averaged 2.99 carries per game throughout his career. 2.99! That's not a scrambling QB.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

I think the call him "Jake the Snake" because he was so elusive. Defenders had a hard time getting a hand on him in the pocket he could get out of bad situations.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=Cowell;356125]I think the call him "Jake the Snake" because he was so elusive. Defenders had a hard time getting a hand on him in the pocket he could get out of bad situations.[/QUOTE]

That doesn't make him a scrambler, that makes him elusive.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

That's the point I was proving. I don't understand how "snake" implies scrambling.

Re: McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[QUOTE=Cowell;356192]That's the point I was proving. I don't understand how "snake" implies scrambling.[/QUOTE]

Oh, sorry...I misunderstood your post.