Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;376746]I'm VERY anti-Kool Aid, but I'm not a moron. I know I'm a devoted fan, but I don't have blind "in Joe we trust" faith either. It's not working, it's obvious, and I'm tired of excuses. Sure we've been dinged up, but we've also blown a few games we had locked up. Injuries are not the reason we're where we are now. We have above average talent, and below average performances, and a coaching staff that's not getting it done. We're 26-31 in the last 3+ seasons. If they're getting it done, the record sure doesn't show it.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't put you in with the anti-Kool Aid crowd. You are highly critical of the team, but, unlike the anti-Kool Aid crowd, you explain why in a very rational thoughtful way. I have never seen you say anything like "this teem is the woresest teem in the hole wurld." I'm all for differing opinions, so long as they are expressed in a way that is actually interesting and informative.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GMScud;376738] I know SmootSmack always reverts back to blaming the players for miscues - dumb penalties, drops, etc. But when it happens week after week, and we blow games repeatedly, that's a symptom of the coaching staff. No question.

We couldn't come up with a play call to get us a TD when we had 7 chances inside the 10 yard line. [/quote]

Gibbs can't be absolved for everything, but watching the game today I didn't see coaching cost us the game. You say that they couldn't come up with a play to score, well if Cooley can keep his ass from jumping offsides then Thrash scores TD #3 and Skins win. I saw MULTIPLE times when the Skins had the chance to make plays to help win the game (Smoot penalty on the first drive, that long pass to Reggie Brown that Pierson had covered and if McNabb made a good throw he would have had it, the two INTs Godfrey dropped, Cooley jumping offsides). You can look to coaching in some of the games this year, but the players lost the game today. I saw guys in position to win the game and fail to make the plays. All a coach can do is put you in position to make plays, you have to make the plays. I am sick about this game, but I truly do not see how you blame the coaches, except maybe for the clock management that left them without Time Outs.

This reactionary BS after every loss drives me f'ing crazy. Why doesn't anyone ever jump on the players for their shitty plays? If you ask me, there were multiple plays that cost them the game, but if you wanted to make it really simple and look at one single play that cost them the game it was Cooley jumping offsides that cost them a TD to put them game away. Why isn't anyone jumping on Cooley for his mistake?

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;376750]I didn't say you weren't a fan. I said that I don't understand why someone who does nothing but complain about a team, hates watching the games, bashes a team's win, and hates just about everything that is related to the team would actually continue to watch the team.

Second, "woulda coulda shoulda" goes both ways. The anti-Kool Aid crowd uses that expression when members of the Kool Aid crowd talks about how we would have beaten the Packers if..... Yet those same people manage to say that we would have lost the game to X team IF. Those sort of mental gymnastics make my head hurt.

But, whatever, if it makes you feel good to bitch about this site and this team, have at it.[/quote]

Yeah well I was also here defending Gibbs when we the players let us down in the Packers game, dont take me as a "I hate the Redskins type of fan" I love this team with a passion, but they continue to rip my heart out year after year and Im sorry if I feel like the fans deserve a little more.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

I have been incognito (intentionally) but I seriously wanted to enter an identical thread.

I went to the game today and this is not an over-reaction. Joe needs to go. This team plays way too hard to lose games likes this due to the predicatable/incompetent coaching that they deal with on a weekly basis.

If it weren't for Reeds stupid call at the end of the first half in Philly this would have been a sweep.

Joe, I love you. I love all of the great memories and I will never forget them.

We are better without you and you are figuratively killing us one week at a time.

Now pardon me while I throw up.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;376747]Since Gibbs is not going to be fired, one has to assume that threads like these are started largely for the purpose of generating a defensive response. Then the perpetrators throw up their hands and exclaim, "How dare you question my loyalty". It's eerily familiar somehow.

Gibbs is to blame for part of it, though. He has allowed the perception to flourish that anytime we run it's because he's interfering with Saunders playcalling. If he is, he's being pretty subtle about it, because I don't ever see him saying "Boo" to either Saunders through the headset or to Bill Lazor on the sideline who talks to Campbell. The only person he seems to speak with is Gregg Williams. And, Saunders doesn't really seem like the type that would shoot down such a misperception by the press if he thought it would allow him to escape the blame for any mistakes the team makes. He'll probably collect his doe and shuffle off to the next gig with his genius tag only slightly tarnished.[/QUOTE]

Threads like this have the same purpose as threads like "$hit the refs fucked us in this one." Or better yet, threads like "Hurry, everyone get your redskins thongs on cuz it'll bring us better luck in the second half." The goal is to generate discussion now matter how assanine and pointless it may seem to some folks - in this case, a discussion about alternatives to Gibbs.

Its not as though the redskins team and coaches read this forum to gauge fan perception and feel sleighted and depressed if we question calls, players, or the competency of the coach himself.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;376753]Gibbs can't be absolved for everything, but watching the game today I didn't see coaching cost us the game. You say that they couldn't come up with a play to score, well if Cooley can keep his ass from jumping offsides then Thrash scores TD #3 and Skins win. I saw MULTIPLE times when the Skins had the chance to make plays to help win the game (Smoot penalty on the first drive, that long pass to Reggie Brown that Pierson had covered and if McNabb made a good throw he would have had it, the two INTs Godfrey dropped, Cooley jumping offsides). You can look to coaching in some of the games this year, but the players lost the game today. I saw guys in position to win the game and fail to make the plays. All a coach can do is put you in position to make plays, you have to make the plays. I am sick about this game, but I truly do not see how you blame the coaches, except maybe for the clock management that left them without Time Outs.

This reactionary BS after every loss drives me f'ing crazy. Why doesn't anyone ever jump on the players for their shitty plays? If you ask me, there were multiple plays that cost them the game, but if you wanted to make it really simple and look at one single play that cost them the game it was Cooley jumping offsides that cost them a TD to put them game away. Why isn't anyone jumping on Cooley for his mistake?[/quote]


you cant be serious, Santana Moss was absolutely blasted after his game in Green Bay. Fans were asking for Portis' head before the past two games, the players are constantly rediculed while the coaching staff is left alone.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;376757]I have been incognito (intentionally) but I seriously wanted to enter an identical thread.

I went to the game today and this is not an over-reaction. Joe needs to go. This team plays way too hard to lose games likes this due to the predicatable/incompetent coaching that they deal with on a weekly basis.

If it weren't for Reeds stupid call at the end of the first half in Philly this would have been a sweep.

Joe, I love you. I love all of the great memories and I will never forget them.

We are better without you and you are figuratively killing us one week at a time.

Now pardon me while I throw up.[/quote]

How dare you

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;376753]Gibbs can't be absolved for everything, but watching the game today I didn't see coaching cost us the game. You say that they couldn't come up with a play to score, well if Cooley can keep his ass from jumping offsides then Thrash scores TD #3 and Skins win. I saw MULTIPLE times when the Skins had the chance to make plays to help win the game (Smoot penalty on the first drive, that long pass to Reggie Brown that Pierson had covered and if McNabb made a good throw he would have had it, the two INTs Godfrey dropped, Cooley jumping offsides). You can look to coaching in some of the games this year, but the players lost the game today. I saw guys in position to win the game and fail to make the plays. All a coach can do is put you in position to make plays, you have to make the plays. I am sick about this game, but I truly do not see how you blame the coaches, except maybe for the clock management that left them without Time Outs.

This reactionary BS after every loss drives me f'ing crazy. Why doesn't anyone ever jump on the players for their shitty plays? If you ask me, there were multiple plays that cost them the game, but if you wanted to make it really simple and look at one single play that cost them the game it was Cooley jumping offsides that cost them a TD to put them game away. Why isn't anyone jumping on Cooley for his mistake?[/quote]

First off SC, every week I jump on the players. But I said I'm tired of excuses. And when week in and week out we have clock management issues, questionable play calling, and basic fundamental breakdowns, and all we do is say, "well if this and if that..." IF WHAT?? We didn't get it done AGAIN, we didn't close out a game we had in hand AGAIN, and at some point that has to fall squarely in the lap of the coaching staff. It's the same shit over and over again. And it's been that way for 3+ years.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;376761]How dare you[/quote]

Did you take money out of your pocket to watch that bullshit today?

Don't you even come at me like that. There is no one on this sight that loves this team more than I do.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!!

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;376749]No, it's more like those "fans" who only come out and post just to bash the team when they lose, but are miles away from the warpath when the Redskins win. This has been evidenced time and time again, season after season. Then they wonder why the rest of us who are here through thick and thin question their support for this team.[/QUOTE]

Simple reason for the large turnout after a loss. There's a lot more to talk about if we lose. If we win, show me the highlights and a let me post a few superlatives for Portis or Cooley, and that's it.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;376760]you cant be serious, Santana Moss was absolutely blasted after his game in Green Bay. Fans were asking for Portis' head before the past two games, the players are constantly rediculed while the coaching staff is left alone.[/quote]

I just don't really see any argument. Besides "he doesn't have that killer instinct" (what the hell does that mean exactly?) What is it exactly that Joe Gibbs did to lose the game today? I know everyone is pissed. I was pissed, my wife was pissed at me because I was such an asshole during the game, but I just don't see where you watched the game today and were like, Joe Gibbs has to go. Players didn't make plays. What genius play would you have called to score a TD inside of the 3 yard line? How could Gibbs have made different decisions to win the game? What exactly was it that Gibbs did to cost the Skins the game? I saw a bunch of players fail to make plays but I didn't see a coaching staff lose a game.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;376766]Did you take money out of your pocket to watch that bullshit today?

Don't you even come at me like that. There is no one on this sight that loves this team more than I do.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!![/quote]

Dude read my other posts, Im being sarcastic. Im right there with you

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;376768]I just don't really see any argument. Besides "he doesn't have that killer instinct" (what the hell does that mean exactly?) What is it exactly that Joe Gibbs did to lose the game today? I know everyone is pissed. I was pissed, my wife was pissed at me because I was such an asshole during the game, but I just don't see where you watched the game today and were like, Joe Gibbs has to go. Players didn't make plays. What genius play would you have called to score a TD inside of the 3 yard line? How could Gibbs have made different decisions to win the game? What exactly was it that Gibbs did to cost the Skins the game? I saw a bunch of players fail to make plays but I didn't see a coaching staff lose a game.[/quote]

I think it occured to me that he really has no idea whats going on when he decided to run a jumbo pack from the 8 yard line, and then continue to do so 6 times in a row.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;376768]I just don't really see any argument. Besides "he doesn't have that killer instinct" (what the hell does that mean exactly?) What is it exactly that Joe Gibbs did to lose the game today? I know everyone is pissed. I was pissed, my wife was pissed at me because I was such an asshole during the game, but I just don't see where you watched the game today and were like, Joe Gibbs has to go. Players didn't make plays. What genius play would you have called to score a TD inside of the 3 yard line? How could Gibbs have made different decisions to win the game? What exactly was it that Gibbs did to cost the Skins the game? I saw a bunch of players fail to make plays but I didn't see a coaching staff lose a game.[/quote]

There were two series at the goaline where we could have BURIED them. Case closed, game over.

He chose to kick meaningless fieldgoals.

Last time I checked, he won his first SuperBowl by going for it.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;376769]Dude read my other posts, Im being sarcastic. Im right there with you[/quote]

Then you and I are feeling the same pain.

I could barely get up out of my seat when they threw that idiotic pass to Lloyd to finish it.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=GiantsSuck703;376769]Dude read my other posts, Im being sarcastic. Im right there with you[/QUOTE]

LMAO..truly priceless. Anti-kool-aid against Anti-kool-aid.
Loved Grim Reaper's post though.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=hurrykaine;376767]Simple reason for the large turnout after a loss. There's a lot more to talk about if we lose. If we win, show me the highlights and a let me post a few superlatives for Portis or Cooley, and that's it.[/QUOTE]

That's screwed up. You find more pleasure in talking about this team when we lose as opposed to when we win. This is basically what you've just said.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;376777]That's screwed up. You find more pleasure in talking about this team when we lose as opposed to when we win. This is basically what you've just said.[/QUOTE]

Yes - I find the discussions a lot more interesting after a loss. Interesting to hear perspectives on what needs fixing, who should be cut, how different the playcalling should've been, etc.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

Can't blame Gibbs for Cooley's false start. We had Philly in a bad situation with their Jumbo defense package trying to defend 2 WRs and Cooley. If not for the false start, Campbell and Thrash have an easy pitch and catch to ice the game. My first instinct was to totally blame coaching, but after replaying the Eagle's goal line stand, there were several key breakdowns:

1. Portis coughing the ball up at the goal line. Yes he recovered, but without the fumble, his forward progress would have been inside the 1 instead of at the 2 where he regained posession.

2. Samuels getting beat by Darren Howard allowing Portis to get tackled from the backside for no gain at the 2.

3. Cooley jumping offside - this should have been a TD. Biggest penalty of the game.

4. Ridiculously conservative play calling a draw on third down at the 7. To me, this shows a lack of trust in Campbell, who FOX pointed out has been stellar passing in the red zone in his career.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

Excuse me while I interject some sense into this thread, but when did running the ball on the goal line in an attempt to score become "conservative"?

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=SouperMeister;376784]Can't blame Gibbs for Cooley's false start. We had Philly in a bad situation with their Jumbo defense package trying to defend 2 WRs and Cooley. If not for the false start, Campbell and Thrash have an easy pitch and catch to ice the game. My first instinct was to totally blame coaching, but after replaying the Eagle's goal line stand, there were several key breakdowns:

1. Portis coughing the ball up at the goal line. Yes he recovered, but without the fumble, his forward progress would have been inside the 1 instead of at the 2 where he regained posession.

2. Samuels getting beat by Darren Howard allowing Portis to get tackled from the backside for no gain at the 2.

3. Cooley jumping offside - this should have been a TD. Biggest penalty of the game.

4. Ridiculously conservative play calling a draw on third down at the 7. To me, this shows a lack of trust in Campbell, who FOX pointed out has been stellar passing in the red zone in his career.[/quote]


UMMMM I think #4 would be Gibbs. Don't even tell me the whole Saunders calls the plays b.s.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=hurrykaine;376780]Yes - I find the discussions a lot more interesting after a loss. Interesting to hear perspectives on what needs fixing, who should be cut, how different the playcalling should've been, etc.[/QUOTE]


So, basically they're only relevant if they're losing?

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;376786]Excuse me while I interject some sense into this thread, but when did running the ball on the goal line in an attempt to score become "conservative"?[/quote]

Yeah I don't get that either.

If you can't pound the ball in down there you don't deserve to win the game. How many chances did we have, I mean seriously if you can't win those battles it's game over.

This thread is retarded for a variety of reasons.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=GiantsSuck703;376741]Your completely out of your mind with your rediculous rant that you must support the teams decisions or your a fair weather fan bullshit.[/QUOTE]

Yawn!!!!!!! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Z. Please pass the cheese and the chardonay, I'm a whiner.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;376786]Excuse me while I interject some sense into this thread, but when did running the ball on the goal line in an attempt to score become "conservative"?[/quote]

When did we get to the goal line? I seem to remember going with the Jumbo package from the 8 yard line.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;376787]UMMMM I think #4 would be Gibbs. Don't even tell me the whole Saunders calls the plays b.s.[/QUOTE]

Saunders does call the plays, unless you can prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that this isn't the case.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GMScud;376764]First off SC, every week I jump on the players. But I said I'm tired of excuses. And when week in and week out we have clock management issues, questionable play calling, and basic fundamental breakdowns, and all we do is say, "well if this and if that..." IF WHAT?? We didn't get it done AGAIN, we didn't close out a game we had in hand AGAIN, and at some point that has to fall squarely in the lap of the coaching staff. It's the same shit over and over again. And it's been that way for 3+ years.[/quote]But isn't blaming the coaching staff the same type of excuse as blaming the players? It's just based on far less evidence.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;376793]When did we get to the goal line? I seem to remember going with the Jumbo package from the 8 yard line.[/quote]

We had first and goal from the 3 after the PI

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;376793]When did we get to the goal line? I seem to remember going with the Jumbo package from the 8 yard line.[/quote]What's wrong with that?

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;376792]Yawn!!!!!!! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ[/quote]


Wake up dumb ass, we just lost to a team that was in absolute turmoil the past few weeks, they were 3 games under .500 and beat us at home.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;376796]We had first and goal from the 3 after the PI[/quote]

the 3 yard line isnt the goal line

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;376797]What's wrong with that?[/quote]

your kidding right?

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;376801]the 3 yard line isnt the goal line[/quote]

It's still an appropriate situation to pound the ball with goal line formations, what's your problem with that??

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=GiantsSuck703;376800]Wake up dumb ass, we just lost to a team that was in absolute turmoil the past few weeks, they were 3 games under .500 and beat us at home.[/QUOTE]

The only Dumb ass I see is you wanting a coaching change. Just ask Parcells how he feels not being there coaching the team he built and Wade Phillips getting the credit. You wake up!!

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;376786]Excuse me while I interject some sense into this thread, but when did running the ball on the goal line in an attempt to score become "conservative"?[/quote]So you don't think that a draw play on 3rd and goal from the 7 is conservative??? The only way you could have played that any safer would be to have Campbell take a knee before the field goal.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;376805]The only Dumb ass I see is you wanting a coaching change. Just ask Parcells how he feels not being there coaching the team he built and Wade Phillips getting the credit. You wake up!![/quote]


O.k. Who has turned an 8-1 team into a 5-4 team? Wasn't Parcells.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee people. Do we want to win the marketing game, or football games?

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;376773]There were two series at the goaline where we could have BURIED them. Case closed, game over.

He chose to kick meaningless fieldgoals.

Last time I checked, he won his first SuperBowl by going for it.[/quote]We should have scored a TD.

Joe Gibbs is like the 35th most highest person on that list regarding failure to score in that situation. Lots of blame to go around. If we couldn't score in 3 plays, what makes you think the 4th would be the charm?

Here's the big point though: the field goal STILL should have been enough to win. That's a five point lead with 4 mins to go and no timeouts. It doesn't take a very good defensive effort to hold the lead.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;376803]your kidding right?[/quote]No, just wondering what in the heck you are complaining about regarding the jumbo formation.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;376809]So you don't think that a draw play on 3rd and goal from the 7 is conservative??? The only way you could have played that any safer would be to have Campbell take a knee before the field goal.[/QUOTE]

Nope, it was a great play. The Eagles defense was sending the kitchen sink after Campbell on that play, and the only way we had a chance to score was to hand it to Portis on a draw. If Campbell had dopped back to pass, he would've gotten blown up.

Re: Its time for joe to step down.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;376813]We should have scored a TD.

Joe Gibbs is like the 35th most highest person on that list regarding failure to score in that situation. Lots of blame to go around. If we couldn't score in 3 plays, what makes you think the 4th would be the charm?

Here's the big point though: the field goal STILL should have been enough to win. That's a five point lead with 4 mins to go and no timeouts. It doesn't take a very good defensive effort to hold the lead.[/quote]


Bottom line, fourth quarter 4 minutes and change left. They run 50 gut, it's over. I firmly believe that. No, we have to run right. Lose 2 yards and are forced into a pass. Dance with who brung you. You would think a Hall of Famer would realize that.