Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=Redskin Rich;388675]Actually, I will disagree with you on Belichick.... He actually had the Browns in the play offs the year before.... but after I believe like 5 games, Modell announced the move... and everything fell apart.

Belichick also had alot of success before and AFTER as a coordinator... GW is hot and cold with us.[/quote]

I'm sure that Belichick has his ups and downs as a coordinator too.

GW can only be as good as his players. Other than last year he's had much more success than failure.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;388681]I'm sure that Belichick has his ups and downs as a coordinator too.

GW can only be as good as his players. Other than last year he's had much more success than failure.[/quote]
Yes, Belichick has had ups and downs.... mostly ups... every success Parcells had, BB was by his side. Parcells NEVER won a play off game without BB on his staff.

GW has occasional success... with ALOT of downs. I believe the current staff should get 1 more year. If it doesn't get going by then... then it is time for something new. I think an up and comer like Grimm, or a proven winner like Cowher would do well.... Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing Marty come back either.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

I would take Marty back, but I really doubt that Snyder would.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;388713]I would take Marty back, but I really doubt that Snyder would.[/quote]
You are 100% correct on that too.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

The skins need a hard nosed coach. We have had years and years of laid back coaches that assume players will take responsibility for thier own actions and are never held accountable.

"Heck, if you cant find the time in your schedule to come to redskins park for offseason practices/workouts, ill trust that you will be in peak condition and ready to go for the season."

We see how that one worked out

6 turnovers = they fought there guts out
5 of 6 losses= I'm really proud of this team
50(something)-7=they left it all on the field

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

My point is it is left up to the players to motivate themselves, and apparently that just doesnt cut it. It has been the same under Norv, Spurrier, and Gibbs.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Before anybody jumps on the I want a new coach wagon, please read this from JLC's column "Guest blog". Best common sense read I've had!!

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=Stacks42;388723]The skins need a hard nosed coach. We have had years and years of laid back coaches that assume players will take responsibility for thier own actions and are never held accountable.

"Heck, if you cant find the time in your schedule to come to redskins park for offseason practices/workouts, ill trust that you will be in peak condition and ready to go for the season."

We see how that one worked out

6 turnovers = they fought there guts out
5 of 6 losses= I'm really proud of this team
50(something)-7=they left it all on the field[/quote]Yes, I'm sure screaming and yelling does wonders for motivating 23-35 year old men. What better way for a coach to inspire victory than to act like an immature baby in front of his team!

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;388745]Yes, I'm sure screaming and yelling does wonders for motivating 23-35 year old men. What better way for a coach to inspire victory than to act like an immature baby in front of his team![/quote]

I agree, I don't think a hardass works any better than a laid back kind of coach, the both have their strengths and weaknesses. Look at the Cowboys this year, it seems that Parcells leaving turned out to be a good thing for them.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;388745]Yes, I'm sure [B]screaming and yelling does wonders for motivating 23-35 year old men[/B]. What better way for a coach to inspire victory than to act like an immature baby in front of his team![/quote]

Then why does the military have drill sergeants? They inspire, motivate the troops, and won't accept failure. The skins dont have motivators on the coaching staff or on the field? Where is the skins Ray Lewis?

Parcells had players follow him everywhere he went "Parcells guys". Granted gibbs took some time off, but do you think that if he went to another team anyone would follow him? No! Does anyone follow Norv, No!There is a need for a decisive leader starting at head coach, players will see that and follow that person, at this point this team mulls around with no direction. When there is a time to be decisive (end of games and quarters) there is no direction and it is directly reflected upon the team and how it carries itself. False starts, penalties, turnovers, and poor clock managment are a sign of a poorly coached team.

Some coaches (ie. Bellichek, Cohwer, Schottenheimer) have a fire inside that players see and want to follow. All i hear from the Skins players is "i dont want to let coach gibbs down" and "i feel so sorry for him".

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=Stacks42;388806]Then why does the military have drill sergeants? They inspire, motivate the troops, and won't accept failure. The skins dont have motivators on the coaching staff or on the field? Where is the skins Ray Lewis?[/quote]

The military and the NFL are apples and oranges.

That tough guy stuff grows old pretty quick in the NFL and it's not long before players tune that stuff out.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=Stacks42;388806]Then why does the military have drill sergeants? They inspire, motivate the troops, and won't accept failure. The skins dont have motivators on the coaching staff or on the field? Where is the skins Ray Lewis?

Parcells had players follow him everywhere he went "Parcells guys". Granted gibbs took some time off, but do you think that if he went to another team anyone would follow him? No! Does anyone follow Norv, No!There is a need for a decisive leader starting at head coach, players will see that and follow that person, at this point this team mulls around with no direction. When there is a time to be decisive (end of games and quarters) there is no direction and it is directly reflected upon the team and how it carries itself. False starts, penalties, turnovers, and poor clock managment are a sign of a poorly coached team.

Some coaches (ie. Bellichek, Cohwer, Schottenheimer) have a fire inside that players see and want to follow. All i hear from the Skins players is "i dont want to let coach gibbs down" and "i feel so sorry for him".[/quote]
The military only uses drill sergeants in the begining of a military career. Their goal is to break down the civilian to then mold them into something different.... has nothing to do with the NFL.

But... some players respond to hard asses... and some want the "players coach".

It is just the right type of coach, with the right type of team. Last decent coach we had was Marty... took him a bit to get the team going in the right direction after Norv screwed us up... but he got it there... to bad we got rid of him for the wonderful head coach Spurrier.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Okay how about this? Joe Gibb's teams have only won 43% of the time since he has been back, that is failing by far. Can anyone honestly say this team is getting better? The skins were on the 4 year superbowl plan, are the pieces, and leadership in place to make a run for the superbowl next year. That would assume that they re-due the O-line fix the secondary (replace springs and taylor) as well as the D-line and find some WRs in the offseason, and get on the same page, As well as fixing the myriad of coaching gaffs that have happened over the past 4 years.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

The whole cowher thing is a bad idea if you want to win over the next 3 years. It will take him 2 years to get the guys he drafts (for his system) up to speed. Compound that with the fact that it will stunt our offensive chemistry (with a young QB and shaky receiving corps) for at least a year or so til they learn a new system under cowher's guy...i'm assuming saunders wont wanna stay on unless he has control over the offense. On top of that we will be losing a lot of veterans because of an imminent cap nightmare over the next two years.

I think we are in this damned if u do damned if u don't situation with our coaching staff and players. The coaches (Cowher, GW, Saunders) are all dominant egos who want complete control. The players are either too young to change a system and pick it up quickly enuff to win immediately or too old to be able to stick around for a few years while we rebuild.

B/c of all that, GW is the best candidate IF Gibbs steps down which i think he won't. He will stick around for one more year...if we do well then he will move to FO duties and let GW take over or if we do poorly, we will look outside for his replacement.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Just think how good the Colts could be if only Tony Dungy wasn't such a softie...

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Instead of hiring Cowher, why not just hire Dick Lebeau? Isn't he the real genius behind their defensive culture? You can hire any damn fool to scream and make faces. Plus, Lebeau is in his 70s (I think) so it will piss off all the right people in this forum.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;388856]Just think how good the Colts could be if only Tony Dungy wasn't such a softie...[/quote]

Touche,
Peyton Manning is basically the coach on offense and leader of that team tho.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Anyways.... I think GW should takeover for Gibbs, keep Saunders as the O coach if he will stay. They players respect GW, and he is a great leader.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Bring back Marty....we went 8-8 with [I]Tony Banks as our quarterback[/I]....imagine what he could do with Campbell and that defense

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=70Chip;388871]Instead of hiring Cowher, why not just hire Dick Lebeau? Isn't he the real genius behind their defensive culture? You can hire any damn fool to scream and make faces. Plus, Lebeau is in his 70s (I think) so it will piss off all the right people in this forum.[/quote]
Nah, Cowher was good with whoever his many coordinators were....

Lebeau was the head coach of the bungles... and we all know how well he did with that.

I hate retread coaches that have failed. That is why I say Grimm who has never been, or Cowher who has been successful.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Hey Jack Pardee is still sought after and available (maybe)

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3141498]ESPN - Houston contacts Pardee about coaching job - College Football[/url]

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Ok ,don't ever say I didn't work with you guys.You guys(Skins) take Coughlin and we'll take Gibbs!!!!!!!!

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;388924]Ok ,don't ever say I didn't work with you guys.You guys(Skins) take Coughlin and we'll take Gibbs!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Truth is almost all Teams would make this trade for Gibbs for their current coach.

NO is our answer

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=Giantone;388924]Ok ,don't ever say I didn't work with you guys.You guys(Skins) take Coughlin and we'll take Gibbs!!!!!!!![/quote]
The premise of this thread was not that Gibbs must go... the premise was if he decided he wanted to leave the NFL again.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42;388880]Touche,
Peyton Manning is basically the coach on offense and leader of that team tho.[/QUOTE]

i beg to differ..before tony dungy peyton was just a good quarteback on a bad team. Mora was a good coach but he did basically nothing with them. Dungy is the best thing to happen to the colts. he brought stability to the team the same way he did with the bucs. his softness is what stops him sometimes from winning it all..but he put all that to rest last year.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

I say other b/c i feel we need new blood in to rebuild I believe everyone would like the Redskins to become a contender every year like the Pats, Colts & Cowboys. But they had to start from scratch I feel we should get a young head coach hungry & current. I say Jason Garrett from DAL he has put in a nice offensive system in Big D. I feel he would have a great chemistry with his team. You see how he gets along with Romo, Witten & T.O.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[QUOTE=Redskin Warrior;389005]I say other b/c i feel we need new blood in to rebuild I believe everyone would like the Redskins to become a contender every year like the Pats, Colts & Cowboys. But they had to start from scratch I feel we should get a young head coach hungry & current. I say Jason Garrett from DAL he has put in a nice offensive system in Big D. I feel he would have a great chemistry with his team. You see how he gets along with Romo, Witten & T.O.[/QUOTE]

I really doubt the Cowboys would let Garrett go to a division rival (although there was that rumor last month about going to the Giants).

Anyhow, I think we need to keep some semblance of continuity. Now I'm not saying the Steelers will struggle next year. But everyone was all excited about how young and innovative Sean Payton and Eric Mangini were last year, and now...

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;389010]I really doubt the Cowboys would let Garrett go to a division rival (although there was that rumor last month about going to the Giants).

Anyhow, I think we need to keep some semblance of continuity. Now I'm not saying the Steelers will struggle next year. But everyone was all excited about how young and innovative Sean Payton and Eric Mangini were last year, and now...[/QUOTE]

You are probably right but you know Billion Dollar Dan he can sure make some offers people can't refuse. But I do feel before the playoffs Garrett will have a new contract.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

I voted Grimm. He's a well respected assistant who has paid his dues on more then one team and been succesful. He's also a Redskin. I like the idea of hiring the NEXT great Football coach. He's out there on somebodies staff. That is exactly what Bobby Beatherd and Jack Kent Cooke did when they hired Joe Gibbs.

G.Williams might be one of those guys who is a great coordinater but not a good head coach. He'll get another shot I just dont know if this is the right situation.

Cowher is a great coach, no doubt about it and I wouldn't mind him but it seems like Snyder keeps hiring "name guys" who dont work out here. Maybe it's time to go in another direction....[I][U]if coach Gibbs wants to leave the sidelines.[/U][/I]

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

I've been thinking Cowher, but you know I almost would like to see Al's offense finally open up. I do belive Gibbs has limited him. I used to like Williams but recently I have soured on him because I belive he has a good defensive style but if he does not have all the pieces his defense sputters as we are witnessing. Probubly cause of over paid first stringers...I don't know. I do belive that if Cowher came on board he would change the whole coaching from top to bottom. That might be a good thing but I really would like to see the Skins scoring like the Patriots or Dallas. I like to think we are simply a few players short of a scoring machine. All it took for the Pats was a tall WR. Who's also talented. I'm just not seeing Williams making major changes during half time to confuse the other teams or make them attempt to adjust during the second half. He simply belives my scheme works and I'm not changing it whether we win or lose.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Williams was brought in here to replace Gibbs when he walked away. No reason to change that now.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

Here are my thoughts on this, first and foremost IF Gibbs decides to leave the sidelines he must move into the front office as GM/President. Snyder should do little more than sign checks. Cerrato must be let go. Gibbs needs to bring in any front office staff he requests. With the position of managing the franchise's long term stability and not worrying about weekly Wins & Losses he will avoid the poor personnel decisions made over the last few years.

Our coaching choice should defintely not be Cowher. He had a good run in Pittsburgh, although not particiularly good in the playoffs. Big name for his second go round, I don't think we should go down that path, plus he will likely want total control. I don't think Russ Grimm should be the choice either. Someone else mentioned us "reaching for links to the glory days" and I agree, we should bring in fresh blood rather than go with Grimm.

I believe it is time for a new Head Coach, a defensive one. I think GW and Saunders are pretty full of themselves and their systems, but it hasn't turned into much sucess nor are we seeing CONSISTENT improvement in the systems. GWs defense has done fairly well statistically, but the second half breakdowns game after game are a major concern and show a major coaching flaw. IMO what this indicates is good preparation going into the game but the ability to "think on your feet" and make in-game adjustments is lacking. I'm also not a big fan of the Cover 2. The only dominant Cover 2 or Tampa 2 defenses that I can recall was the SB Tampa team. That team had great athletes and could generate pressure from the front four. Indy's Cover 2 has played well in spots but prior to the playoffs last year was horrible. We need to make sure our defense is strong, because in late Nov. & December in the NFC East the elements can limit an offense severely and the D must sometimes carry us.

Our offense has also had it's issues with second half adjustments, and the Lloyd and Randel-El acquistions were 100% Saunders fault. Our second half playcalling has been poor at best. If the playcalling is all Saunders then we need to let him go, but if it is a hybrid of Gibbs and Saunders then I believe he should have a year with total offensive control. Prior to coming to DC his offenses were consistently ranked in the top 5 in the NFL. In KC he didn't have any outstanding players other than Gonzalez and the left side of the OL, no great receivers and Priest Holmes was more of a product of the system. So if the current offense is a case of "too many cooks in the kitchen" He should stay on as OC. If he can't accept that then bring in a new OC that the new coach and Gibbs pick.

My opinion would be to bring in a new head coach preferably a successful NFL assistant. Garrett is the hot name out there, but he is a Cowboy and he won't leave Dallas for DC, nor do I want him here. The coach I would like to see is Ron Rivera. He had successful defenses in Chicago from 2004-2006 and you see how they're doing this year without him. He's currently a LB coach in San Diego. He is a 4-3 guy, but is learning the 3-4 from Ted Cotrell. He got shafted in the coaching "merry-go-round" last year. We could bring him in and give Saunders one year of complete control to see if our Offense improves. If so then Saunders stays as OC, if not fire him and bring in a new OC in Rivera's second year.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;389113] The coach I would like to see is Ron Rivera. He had successful defenses in Chicago from 2004-2006 and you see how they're doing this year without him. He's currently a LB coach in San Diego. He is a 4-3 guy, but is learning the 3-4 from Ted Cotrell. He got shafted in the coaching "merry-go-round" last year. We could bring him in and give Saunders one year of complete control to see if our Offense improves. If so then Saunders stays as OC, if not fire him and bring in a new OC in Rivera's second year.[/QUOTE]

Ron Rivera is a good choice, so would Mike Singletary now coaching for the Forty Niners.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

I surely hope Gibbs stays & can leave on a positive note. IF he does leave, let GW step in for continuity's sake.

IF both of these is not an option, I'm all for Russ Grimm. I understand the point about "new blood," but given the time that's lapsed since he was here, he is "new blood" he just has a familiar name. I do agree w/those that say we need a "hungry" coach, no doubt about that. Grimm is eager to prove he's head coach material. If the chance to take him comes up and we need a coach, I would think he's a great candidate at the least.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=Sammy Baugh Fan;388926]Truth is almost all Teams would make this trade for Gibbs for their current coach.

NO is our answer[/quote]
SBF as much as I love Gibbs I'm not sure how many teams would trade us coaches. The only reason Gibbs is still here as our coach is his name and history with the Skins.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

If Saunders were to leave for any reason, what do you guys think of Cam Cameron as a replacement for him? Assuming Cameron were to be fired by the Dolphins.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;389153]If Saunders were to leave for any reason, what do you guys think of Cam Cameron as a replacement for him? Assuming Cameron were to be fired by the Dolphins.[/QUOTE]

I mentioned him before, I think he's just as good as Garrett. You can't judge him on his team this year or passing on Brady Quinn in the draft. I love the guy, but I don't think the Dolphins will be foolish to let him go.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;389153]If Saunders were to leave for any reason, what do you guys think of Cam Cameron as a replacement for him? Assuming Cameron were to be fired by the Dolphins.[/quote]

He'd be a solid OC, but I wonder what his view of working for Snyder would be given his close relationship with The Norv. Also, he could probably have a half-dozen offers to be an OC if the Dolphins were to cut him loose and some of those are bound to be more attractive to him than any offer from the Redskins.

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;389153]If Saunders were to leave for any reason, what do you guys think of Cam Cameron as a replacement for him? Assuming Cameron were to be fired by the Dolphins.[/QUOTE]

He's Norv v2.0.. I think if Saunders leaves we need someone who runs the same system as him to keep Campbell in the same offense..

I didn't think about Ron Rivera (someone else mentioned that name earlier in the thread) as a HC.. Him as HC with Saunders still calling the offense could work.. I am over Grilliams at this point.. He's not HC material IMO..

Re: If Not Joe, Then Who?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;389010]I really doubt the Cowboys would let Garrett go to a division rival (although there was that rumor last month about going to the Giants).

Anyhow, I think we need to keep some semblance of continuity. Now I'm not saying the Steelers will struggle next year. But everyone was all excited about how young and innovative Sean Payton and Eric Mangini were last year, and now...[/quote]

The Giants have them in their sights,Cowher is waiting on Carolina to make a call if they do ...he goes there and the Giants go after Garret,,,the same place his Dad coached and he went to high school down the road....he like NJ ,still owns his home there from when he was a Giant QB.
The Cowboys won't fire Phillips and Garret won't wait for ever,he'll take the cut to be a head coach and the Giants will pay what the Cowboys will ....so?