Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=celts32;392647]35-47 with 1 winning season out of 6 without Brady...I did not make that up...those are the facts.[/quote]
Those maybe the facts but facts do not always tell the whole story. The first two years with the brown he was rebuilding the team and getting better. The third he went to the playoffs and I think beat the pats in the first round. His forth year was when the Browns picked up and moved in the middle of the season so I'm not sure if that year can be put on him. Even if you think Brady has made him he also gets the credit for drafting him and making them what they are today. It is the job of the coach to find, train and make them a great team. A whole bunch of other coaches did not have the vision to draft Brady and looked over him.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;392655]Those maybe the facts but facts do not always tell the whole story. The first two years with the brown he was rebuilding the team and getting better. The third he went to the playoffs and I think beat the pats in the first round. His forth year was when the Browns picked up and moved in the middle of the season so I'm not sure if that year can be put on him. Even if you think Brady has made him he also gets the credit for drafting him and making them what they are today. It is the job of the coach to find, train and make them a great team. A whole bunch of other coaches did not have the vision to draft Brady and looked over him.[/QUOTE]

Brady was drafted before he got there. I think Belichek is a good coach...just not the all time greatest like he is portrayed as these days.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=celts32;392673]Brady was drafted before he got there. I think Belichek is a good coach...just not the all time greatest like he is portrayed as these days.[/quote]


Celts, if he isn't one of the all-time greats then what measuring stick are you using?

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=celts32;392673]Brady was drafted before he got there. I think Belichek is a good coach...just not the all time greatest like he is portrayed as these days.[/quote]
Wrong, Belichek was hired in 1/2000 and Brady was aquired in the 2000 draft which was in 4/2000. So does that now make him a great coach?

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

I'm sorry, but I can't give Belichick too much credit for Brady. I'm of the opinion that great quarterbacks have intangibles that can't be taught, and coaching has less of an impact on their performance than their god-given abilities do.

I think the great quarterbacks like Montana, Bradshaw, Marino, Aikman, Manning and Brady are great, and would have been great, regardless of their coach. They might have been less successful with lesser coaches, but they still would have been great.

Give Belichick credit for making the Pats great, but don't give him credit for making Brady great. Afterall, if Belichick knew he was so great, why did it require an injury to Bledsoe to put him in?

:twocents:

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;392704]

I think the great quarterbacks like Montana, Bradshaw, Marino, Aikman, Manning and Brady are great, and would have been great, regardless of their coach. They might have been less successful with lesser coaches, but they still would have been great.

Give Belichick credit for making the Pats great, but don't give him credit for making Brady great. Afterall, if Belichick knew he was so great, why did it require an injury to Bledsoe to put him in?

:twocents:[/QUOTE]

I think you are over simplifying.
99% of all college QB's are not ready to play at a high level when they first arrive in the NFL. Marino and Roethlisberger are the only two that come to mind that came in with a bang.. IT takes time to develop them to the level that is required to be great in the NFL. Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, Manning were not very successful their first couple of years. In fact they really sucked. With COACHING and learning the pro system they became great. They had to work at it. Nobody wanted Brady coming out of college.
Which brings me to another point. I think the offensive system each QB plays in makes a big difference. Montana playing under Walsh and his great system helped him. Well Bellicheck pretty much ran the same system until this year when he started to play more of the 3 and 4 wr system.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;392704]I'm sorry, but I can't give Belichick too much credit for Brady. I'm of the opinion that great quarterbacks have intangibles that can't be taught, and coaching has less of an impact on their performance than their god-given abilities do.

I think the great quarterbacks like Montana, Bradshaw, Marino, Aikman, Manning and Brady are great, and would have been great, regardless of their coach. They might have been less successful with lesser coaches, but they still would have been great.

Give Belichick credit for making the Pats great, but don't give him credit for making Brady great. Afterall, if Belichick knew he was so great, why did it require an injury to Bledsoe to put him in?

:twocents:[/quote]
I never said that he made Brady great. I said he picked him up in the draft when all the other coaches had passed him over. Others have said that Brady has made the Pats what they are and my point that great coaches find these types of players and he should get that credit.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

This argument that Belichick is somehow a good coach, but not a great one is absurd. Putting personal feelings aside for a minute, you can't argue with three Super Bowls and a fourth one around the corner.

I'll go a step further, here's a guy that lost both his defensive and offensive coordinator in the same year and didn't miss a beat. Loss one of the best field goal kickers of all time, and he still wins.

The fact is both Belichick and Brady have mutually benefited from each other. I really think it's that simple.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

I think you could make the argument that the single most valuable person to the Patriots' dynasty is Scott Pioli. He has done an amazing job acquiring talent, both drafted and free agent. Their personnel department is the benchmark in the NFL.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=12thMan;392721]This argument that Belichick is somehow a good coach, but not a great one is absurd. Putting personal feelings aside for a minute, you can't argue with three Super Bowls and a fourth one around the corner.

I'll go a step further, here's a guy that lost both his defensive and offensive coordinator in the same year and didn't miss a beat. Loss one of the best field goal kickers of all time, and he still wins.

The fact is both Belichick and Brady have mutually benefited from each other. I really think it's that simple.[/quote]
If I'm correct he has another SB ring as a DC. I love how people credit everyone around BB but he gets little credit.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;392706]I think you are over simplifying.
99% of all college QB's are not ready to play at a high level when they first arrive in the NFL. Marino and Roethlisberger are the only two that come to mind that came in with a bang.. IT takes time to develop them to the level that is required to be great in the NFL. Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, Manning were not very successful their first couple of years. In fact they really sucked. With COACHING and learning the pro system they became great. They had to work at it. Nobody wanted Brady coming out of college.
Which brings me to another point. I think the offensive system each QB plays in makes a big difference. Montana playing under Walsh and his great system helped him. Well Bellicheck pretty much ran the same system until this year when he started to play more of the 3 and 4 wr system.[/QUOTE]

I know what you're saying, and I agree with you. However, those great quarterbacks would have still been great with lesser coaches -- they just wouldn't have been as successful, IMO. Does that make sense?

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

I really admire the Patriots as a football team on the field, just as I admire ExxonMobil or Walmart in business. They are effective, produce results, and are ruthless wth their competition. They do everything they can to achieve a competitive advantage and exploit every possible weakness of their opponent. These traits are admirable in many ways.

However, just as I can't stand ExxonMobil or Walmart, I can't stand the Patriots. Despite their performance, playing the part of the big bully in the room rarely endears you to anyone, and the arrogance, smugness, and general spitefullness for anyone who dares criticize them, not to mentior the rules of the game is a real turn-off.

Since football is entertainment, we expect more from the teams that ruthless efficiency on the field. We expect players to abide by the rules of society (Vick), we expect courtesy and openness to the media (again, this is entertainment we are talking about here), and most of all we expect [B][U]gratitude[/U][/B] for the tremendous gift that [B]WE THE FANS[/B], have bestowed on these players and coaches to be able to play a game for asinine amounts of money. Gratitude manifests itself in the form of courtesy, humility, and access. If these expectations are not met, then many paying customers (myself included) don't appreciate it and hence, the backlash against the Patriots.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;392721]This argument that Belichick is somehow a good coach, but not a great one is absurd. Putting personal feelings aside for a minute, you can't argue with three Super Bowls and a fourth one around the corner.

I'll go a step further, here's a guy that lost both his defensive and offensive coordinator in the same year and didn't miss a beat. Loss one of the best field goal kickers of all time, and he still wins.

The fact is both Belichick and Brady have mutually benefited from each other. I really think it's that simple.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I do think Belichick is a great coach. I'm just not so sure he is a great person, and that is where the hate for the Pats is derived, IMO.

I credit Belichick for making the Pats great, but I don't give him credit for making Brady great. I'll credit him for finding him, and drafting him (although I'm not sure if he deserves more credit than the Pats FO).

If great QBs are made great by coaching, and not born that way, you'd have a lot more stories like Brady's. Granted there are other Cinderella stories, but not many.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;392743]I know what you're saying, and I agree with you. However, those great quarterbacks would have still been great with lesser coaches -- they just wouldn't have been as successful, IMO. Does that make sense?[/quote]

True, Ghetto. But even that is subjective to an extent. Brady may or may not be this good without Belichick. What isn't subjective, however, are Belichick's championships.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;392716]I never said that he made Brady great. I said he picked him up in the draft when all the other coaches had passed him over. Others have said that Brady has made the Pats what they are and my point that great coaches find these types of players and he should get that credit.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, my post wasn't directed at you, per se. I was just stating my opinion on the matter.

Like 12th said, "they have mutually benefited from each other."

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;392748]True, Ghetto. But even that is subjective to an extent. Brady may or may not be this good without Belichick. What isn't subjective, however, are Belichick's championships.[/QUOTE]

What I am basically saying is: take Brady and put him on the 49ers. Would he be successful? Probably not. Would he lose his "greatness"? I don't think so. It's a team after all, and one guy alone can't do it.

This begs the question: would Brady be as great as he is today, if he were drafted to the 49ers? We'll never know, but I believe he would be -- he just wouldn't be able to show it.

Bottomline: Coaches need good QBs, QBs need good coaches and good teammates. Everyone needs each other.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;392704]I'm sorry, but I can't give Belichick too much credit for Brady. I'm of the opinion that great quarterbacks have intangibles that can't be taught, and coaching has less of an impact on their performance than their god-given abilities do.

I think the great quarterbacks like Montana, Bradshaw, Marino, Aikman, Manning and Brady are great, and would have been great, regardless of their coach. They might have been less successful with lesser coaches, but they still would have been great.

Give Belichick credit for making the Pats great, but don't give him credit for making Brady great. Afterall, if Belichick knew he was so great, why did it require an injury to Bledsoe to put him in?

:twocents:[/quote]

So let me ask you this. If Joe Gibbs was coaching the Pats, do you think they would be running the type of offense they do? HELL NO. Gibbs would be saying, "we need balance." Although BB does not call the plays, he lets Brady spread it out and throw it all over the field. How many coaches would let Brady do that? Not too many cause they don't have the balls that BB does.

Last week NE got the ball on their own 1 yard line, got in shotgun and passed the ball every single play for a 99 yard drive. Sorry but Gibbs or alot of other coaches would come out in a 4 TE set and try and run the ball to give the punter more room and play field position. Gibbs wouldn't even think about getting 7 points backed up in his own territory. BB allows Brady to play with such an aggressive offensive attack and he has to get credit for that cause alot other coaches would never play with that style.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;392745]I agree. I do think Belichick is a great coach. I'm just not so sure he is a great person, and that is where the hate for the Pats is derived, IMO.

I credit Belichick for making the Pats great, but I don't give him credit for making Brady great. I'll credit him for finding him, and drafting him (although I'm not sure if he deserves more credit than the Pats FO).

If great QBs are made great by coaching, and not born that way, you'd have a lot more stories like Brady's. Granted there are other Cinderella stories, but not many.[/quote]

Well, I do think you have to give Belichick some credit for developing Brady into a great quarterback. I don't think that is beyond reasonble. Many here, not you Ghetto, would like to believe the draft gods somehow smiled on Belichick and...poof...Brady appeared with all this Hall of Fame potential.

Make no mistake, Bill Belichick has taught Tom Brady a great deal about the game; how to recognize defenses, football mechanics and such. Some may defer to Weis on this, I beg to differ. Brady didn't possess this at Michigan, at least not on a professional level. As far as raw skill, competitive fire, leadership and other intangibles, those are all Tom Brady's.

I also believe that Bill Belichick has fostered and created an environment in New England for all of those raw skills to flourish and cause Tom Brady to play at a very high level. If nothing else, the fact the Brady was drafted in the sixth round and not the first, could be the best thing that happened to him career wise. He was allowed to fly under the radar, unlike most first round picks, and actually focus on football and getting better instead of answering dumb ass questions week to week whether he's happy being a back-up. These things go a very long way in impacting a quarterback's developement. It's not all X's and O's.

As much as I wanted to see Jason Campbell start the week Mark Brunell broke the completion record, the time he spent on the bench will serve him well in the future.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;392751]What I am basically saying is: take Brady and put him on the 49ers. Would he be successful? Probably not. Would he lose his "greatness"? I don't think so. It's a team after all, and one guy alone can't do it.

[B]This begs the question:[/B] would Brady be as great as he is today, if he were drafted to the 49ers? We'll never know, but I believe he would be -- he just wouldn't be able to show it.

Bottomline: Coaches need good QBs, QBs need good coaches and good teammates. Everyone needs each other.[/QUOTE]

The timing is downright eery...

[URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/parking-lot/17738-whats-your-pet-peeve-8.html#post392740"]What's your pet peeve?[/URL]

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

@skinsfan69: The Pats offense this year is the most aggressive offense I have ever seen. Granted I'm only 25, but I think it's safe to say that it's one of the most aggressive offenses of all time. Belichick and the other Pats coaches deserve all the credit for that. However, I think having a QB like Brady allows you to do that. Everyone wants Gibbs to do the same thing with Campbell, but it's not realistic -- at least not to the same degree as the Pats.

@12thMan: Yes, Belichick deserves a lot of credit for helping Brady mature, and teaching him about the game. I just don't think he is what makes Brady great. Like you said: they make each other great.

Does anybody believe Belichick could take another 6th round QB and turn him into Brady? There's just no way.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;392756]So let me ask you this. If Joe Gibbs was coaching the Pats, do you think they would be running the type of offense they do? HELL NO. Gibbs would be saying, "we need balance." Although BB does not call the plays, he lets Brady spread it out and throw it all over the field. How many coaches would let Brady do that? Not too many cause they don't have the balls that BB does.

Last week NE got the ball on their own 1 yard line, got in shotgun and passed the ball every single play for a 99 yard drive. Sorry but Gibbs or alot of other coaches would come out in a 4 TE set and try and run the ball to give the punter more room and play field position. Gibbs wouldn't even think about getting 7 points backed up in his own territory. BB allows Brady to play with such an aggressive offensive attack and he has to get credit for that cause alot other coaches would never play with that style.[/quote]
If Gibbs would just try to run the ball how come last week the bears got a touch back against the skins? I recall Gibbs throwing often when we are pinned back deap and its when we get to the middle of the field or close to the end zone he tend to get consevative.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=mheisig;392762]The timing is downright eery...

[URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/parking-lot/17738-whats-your-pet-peeve-8.html#post392740"]What's your pet peeve?[/URL][/QUOTE]

I submit to your awesome power of logic and reason! Do you teach Ethics? ;)

This begs the question: can a phrase have more than one meaning?

(all in good fun)

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;392769]I submit to your awesome power of logic and reason! Do you teach Ethics? ;)

This begs the question: can a phrase have more than one meaning?

(all in good fun)[/QUOTE]

Sure it can! However, when a phrase has been in use for a substantial period of time with a specific, defined meaning, should we just accept the bastardization of said phrase simply because it's commonplace?

I do like the general idea, though. For instance, from now on when I say, "Go fuck yourself," what I MEAN is "Hey man, have a great day!"

So, go fuck yourself Ghetto.

:laughing-

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=mheisig;392772]Sure it can! However, when a phrase has been in use for a substantial period of time with a specific, defined meaning, should we just accept the bastardization of said phrase simply because it's commonplace?

I do like the general idea, though. For instance, from now on when I say, "Go fuck yourself," what I MEAN is "Hey man, have a great day!"

So, go fuck yourself Ghetto.

:laughing-[/QUOTE]

LOL. Nice. :biggthump

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;392756]So let me ask you this. If Joe Gibbs was coaching the Pats, do you think they would be running the type of offense they do? HELL NO. Gibbs would be saying, "we need balance." Although BB does not call the plays, he lets Brady spread it out and throw it all over the field. How many coaches would let Brady do that? Not too many cause they don't have the balls that BB does.

Last week NE got the ball on their own 1 yard line, got in shotgun and passed the ball every single play for a 99 yard drive. Sorry but Gibbs or alot of other coaches would come out in a 4 TE set and try and run the ball to give the punter more room and play field position. Gibbs wouldn't even think about getting 7 points backed up in his own territory. BB allows Brady to play with such an aggressive offensive attack and he has to get credit for that cause alot other coaches would never play with that style.[/QUOTE]

Here's something kind of interesting about the Patriots. The Patriots have run for 105 first downs, second-most in the league behind Minnesota (108), and are tied with Miami with 28.8 first downs per carry. Oh, and Tom Brady has nine first-down runs on third down out of 10 tries, a league-best 90-percent success rate. (courtesy: Cold Hard Football Facts)

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;392677]Wrong, Belichek was hired in 1/2000 and Brady was aquired in the 2000 draft which was in 4/2000. So does that now make him a great coach?[/QUOTE]

No. Explain why he had one winning season in 5 with the browns? Then he goes like 5-11 in his first season in New England...0-2 the next year until Bledsoe gets hurt...suddenly Brady starts playing and Belichek becomes a genius? Pulllease...this is more than a little circumstantial evidence.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=firstdown;392768]If Gibbs would just try to run the ball how come last week the bears got a touch back against the skins? I recall Gibbs throwing often when we are pinned back deap and its when we get to the middle of the field or close to the end zone he tend to get consevative.[/quote]

The Pats offense is strictly a pass first offense. My question was if Gibbs coached the Pats, would he have the balls to run that type of offense? Where you pass it almost every play. I don't think so. And this isnt knocking Gibbs in anyway. It's just BB does what he thinks is best to score points which is the smartest thing to do cause that best fits the talent he has. I've never heard BB talk about having balance. All he cares about is scoring.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;392785]Here's something kind of interesting about the Patriots. The Patriots have run for 105 first downs, second-most in the league behind Minnesota (108), and are tied with Miami with 28.8 first downs per carry. Oh, and Tom Brady has nine first-down runs on third down out of 10 tries, a league-best 90-percent success rate. (courtesy: Cold Hard Football Facts)[/quote]

Would you classify NE as a passing team, or a running team?

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=celts32;392787]No. Explain why he had one winning season in 5 with the browns? Then he goes like 5-11 in his first season in New England...0-2 the next year until Bledsoe gets hurt...suddenly Brady starts playing and Belichek becomes a genius? Pulllease...this is more than a little circumstantial evidence.[/quote]
Your right he is average at best.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;392803]Would you classify NE as a passing team, or a running team?[/QUOTE]

Pass first, I'd say. I'd say that if they needed to run I don't know if they could get it done. Their passing game frees up their running game more so than it does for other teams

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;392829]Your right he is average at best.[/QUOTE]

That's funny...he's good I would even go better than good...he's just not the 2nd coming of Lombardi like the media is portraying him to be.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=celts32;392869]That's funny...he's good I would even go better than good...he's just not the 2nd coming of Lombardi like the media is portraying him to be.[/quote]

People keep usuing Lombardi as the measuring stick. Well, fine. Lombardi had great players from top to bottom...and we're not talking about an era where FA and the Cap came into play.

I'd dare say...and this is going to ruffle some feathers...but I'd dare say if you put Belichick in that era with Lombardi or vice-versa, who's to say that Belichick wouldn't be the greater coach.

To suggest that Vince Lombardi, who also had his Hall of Fame quarterback too, mind you, is head and shoulders above everything that ever walked into the NFL just isn't a fair observation.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;392945]People keep usuing Lombardi as the measuring stick. Well, fine. Lombardi had great players from top to bottom...and we're not talking about an era where FA and the Cap came into play.

I'd dare say...and this is going to ruffle some feathers...but I'd dare say if you put Belichick in that era with Lombardi or vice-versa, who's to say that Belichick wouldn't be the greater coach.

To suggest that Vince Lombardi, who also had his Hall of Fame quarterback too, mind you, is head and shoulders above everything that ever walked into the NFL just isn't a fair observation.[/QUOTE]

Lombardi is just sort of the catch phrase for all time great coach...I mean they named the trophy after him. I just think the fact that Belicheks winning as a head coach happened imediately after Brady was inserted into the lineup means something. It's just too much of a coincidence. He's a very good coach i just do not believe he is the best coach ever like he gets credit for these days.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=firstdown;392768]If Gibbs would just try to run the ball how come last week the bears got a touch back against the skins? I recall Gibbs throwing often when we are pinned back deap and its when we get to the middle of the field or close to the end zone he tend to get consevative.[/quote]

Well after blowing a million halftime leads the last 3 1/2 years it's about time Gibbs changed up the playcalling. Don't you think?

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=celts32;392967]Lombardi is just sort of the catch phrase for all time great coach...I mean they named the trophy after him. I just think the fact that Belicheks winning as a head coach happened imediately after Brady was inserted into the lineup means something. It's just too much of a coincidence. He's a very good coach i just do not believe he is the best coach ever like he gets credit for these days.[/quote]
Why is it that Brady mad BB and not the other way around. If Brady was all that good coming out of college he would not have falling to the 6th round and the 199 pick in the 2000 draft. There's really no way to know but maybe you have it backwards and its BB who made Brady what he is today.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

I do not like or hate Bellicheck all that much, but you do have to give HIM credit for one thing: there has been LARGE amount of turnover of players and assistant coaches on the SB Pats teams, but yet they remained a good team and actually improved. The only remaining starters form the Pats first SB win is Brady, Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel. That is it just 3 players out of 22. Everyone else is gone, like off the team.
The 4 time SB champ Steelers did not have the roster changes that SB champs Pats have had. Hall of famers Bradshaw, Swann, Stallworth, Franco Harris, Rocky Blier, C Mike Webster on offense; Joe Green, L.C. Greenwood, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham and Mel Bloundt to name just a few were on all four SB teams.
They did not rebuild the team like the Pats have done.
That takes a great FO but most importantly it takes a great coach and system.
Sorry Bellicheck haters, but he is a good coach and history will show it that way. This current team is fairly young and will keep winning.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;392980]Why is it that Brady mad BB and not the other way around. If Brady was all that good coming out of college he would not have falling to the 6th round and the 199 pick in the 2000 draft. There's really no way to know but maybe you have it backwards and its BB who made Brady what he is today.[/QUOTE]

I think that becasue of the 6 year sampling of belichek as a head coach pre Brady. He became a great head coach the instant he put in Brady...it's not like it took a year or two after that for Brady and the team to come around...they won imediately after he inserted Brady in the lineup. And Brady is not the first great player the scouts missed the boat on so where he was drafted means nothing.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;392981]I do not like or hate Bellicheck all that much, but you do have to give HIM credit for one thing: there has been LARGE amount of turnover of players and assistant coaches on the SB Pats teams, but yet they remained a good team and actually improved. The only remaining starters form the Pats first SB win is Brady, Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel. That is it just 3 players out of 22. Everyone else is gone, like off the team.
The 4 time SB champ Steelers did not have the roster changes that SB champs Pats have had. Hall of famers Bradshaw, Swann, Stallworth, Franco Harris, Rocky Blier, C Mike Webster on offense; Joe Green, L.C. Greenwood, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham and Mel Bloundt to name just a few were on all four SB teams.
They did not rebuild the team like the Pats have done.
That takes a great FO but most importantly it takes a great coach and system.
Sorry Bellicheck haters, but he is a good coach and history will show it that way. This current team is fairly young and will keep winning.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you that he's a good coach...maybe even very good...I disagree with those who now view him as the greatest coach of all time and some imortal NFL legend.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[quote=celts32;393092]I agree with you that he's a good coach...maybe even very good...I disagree with those who now view him as the greatest coach of all time and some imortal NFL legend.[/quote]
I don't think anyone (maybe Pat fans) think BB is the greatest coach of all times but I have to say he is one of the best if not the best of current coaches.

Re: Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;393115]I don't think anyone (maybe Pat fans) think BB is the greatest coach of all times but I have to say he is one of the best if not the best of current coaches.[/QUOTE]

I agree he's one of the best current...but listen to the way the media talks about him now. I have heard all time great and best ever thrown around with him by many media heads.