Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=QBall;410759]What??????[/quote]

In a way Matty's right. Fassel has a winning record as a HC, won a conference Championship and two coach of the year awards, and got screwed by the Giants. Yes he went 4-12 the year he got fired, but that team was ravaged by injuries. This guy went to the Super Bowl with Kerry stinkin Collins for god's sake. He's certainly not who I want taking over, but he's no Steve Spurrier.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=Skins_FanFL;410655]Looking over Fassel's record, I see only one above average year. 2000, he went 12-4. (He went 10-5-1 once, and 10-6. Both times losing first-round Wild Card games.)

He was 25-33 at Utah.

There's a reason he hasn't been a head coach since 2003. Think of all the coaching vacancies since then...and he hasn't received a sniff from anyone, outside of Synder.

If not Gregg Williams, then pick an up-and-coming assistant. Fassel ain't the guy. The players are firmly on Greggy's side. Any other choice is a signal that the next few years will be about rebuilding a new identity. Continuity will be destroyed.

Just my humble opinion.[/quote]

Exactly why I think he's not a good person for the job, or as I put it earlier, an idiot, even though I know I was going too far with that one.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;410764]Dude, awesome post.

If you disagree, please say so and explain why. Contribute to the quality of the forums.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I'm just shoeked that a Mod and Joe Gibbs man would be in favor of Fassel as the head coach for the Washington Redskins.

I feel that "they" are just going with it b/c there is a pretty good chance it will happen and "they" can say we agreed all along.

I think Jim Fassel has been demoted from HC for a reason and he was fired and left out of the NFL for a reason.

These past two weeks starting with our kicker have been the most frustrating ever! Fassel is not the answer people, he's just not!!!

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=GMScud;410761]Did someone actually suggest a player revolt? No way in hell that would happen. But the players, Gibbs, AND Snyder have all expressed a desire to maintain continuity. Bringing in a brand new coaching staff isn't continuity. Yes many of the same players will be here, but continuity will not.[/quote]
why is everyone so focused on continuity.....30-34 record in 4 years is not even mediocre. a change and rebuilding this franchise could be the best thing to happen...we have tons of overpaid talent and and aging team in general....2 years from now this team will be pretty old.....why not bring in a new coaching staff.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=mooby;410766]Exactly why I think he's not a good person for the job, or as I put it earlier, an idiot, even though I know I was going too far with that one.[/QUOTE]

He's not even good enough to be our OC let along the magical Mystery candidate.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=charlielyons;410771]why is everyone so focused on continuity.....30-34 record in 4 years is not even mediocre. a change and rebuilding this franchise could be the best thing to happen...we have tons of overpaid talent and and aging team in general....2 years from now this team will be pretty old.....why not bring in a new coaching staff.[/QUOTE]

Take a nap dude!!

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=firstdown;410694]You said he happy hiring idiot coaches and last I look all three I listed were coaches. Then you counter argument was about a coach that never coached for the team.[/quote]


I never said Gibbs, Williams, or Saunders were idiot coaches, you just lumped them in with that. I never said, every coach he's hired has been an idiot coach, you just assumed that. He is happy hiring idiot coaches, Spurrier's an idiot coach, and to me Fassel is an idiot coach as well. Schottenheimer was a good coach but Snyder doesn't like guys that want complete control. Gibbs was a good coach too but obviously he didn't feel up to the task anymore.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=mooby;410775]I never said Gibbs, Williams, or Saunders were idiot coaches, you just lumped them in with that. I never said, every coach he's hired has been an idiot coach, you just assumed that. He is happy hiring idiot coaches, Spurrier's an idiot coach, and to me Fassel is an idiot coach as well. Schottenheimer was a good coach but Snyder doesn't like guys that want complete control. Gibbs was a good coach too but obviously he didn't feel up to the task anymore.[/quote]So from what you have said that for 5 years Snyder has not had idiot coaches. I would also add that when Spurrier was hired he was not looked at as a iddiot hire at the time. Now when he left he was but all owner have made those bad decisions.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

Careful what you wish for!! Do all of the people that wanted Gibbs to retire envision this? It's looking like a nightmare to me, if GW is not hired then let the age of mediocrity begin.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

this is stupid. we need GW as our coach. our defensive players will leave if GW is not coach and idk how much of an idiot snyder is!!!!!!


calais campbell should be our draft pick too, DE out of the U, hes 6'8 280

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

The extra G in Gregg does not stand for God. I don't understand this widespread panic that if he's not the next head coach we're destined for the apocalypse.

He's probably the best choice considering the circumstances but there are other more than capable alternatives.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

Why can't we have Fassel as an OC and have Grilliams appointed as head coach.

Fassel is so unsought after that we could feasibly hire him on as OC only. I don't see how this signals that he will be our head coach.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;410821]The extra G in Gregg does not stand for God. I don't understand this widespread panic that if he's not the next head coach we're destined for the apocalypse.

He's probably the best choice considering the circumstances but there are other more than capable alternatives.[/quote]

I agree with the best choice being GW. Do you think THE FOSSIL is a BETTER alternative?

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=Skinny Tee;410825]Why can't we have Fassel as an OC and have Grilliams appointed as head coach.

Fassel is so unsought after that we could feasibly hire him on as OC only. I don't see how this signals that he will be our head coach.[/QUOTE]

Would you rather have Saunders or Fassell as OC? Compare KC vs Baltimore offenses, plus the continuity with Saunders. With Fassell new different offense, back to the drawing board.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;410825]Why can't we have Fassel as an OC and have Grilliams appointed as head coach.

Fassel is so unsought after that we could feasibly hire him on as OC only. I don't see how this signals that he will be our head coach.[/quote]

Because Cerrato is apparently all over Synder's junk to the point of where he gets promoted and GW gets the boot. If Cerrato + GW have bad blood then there's no way in hell GW is coach.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;410826]I agree with the best choice being GW. Do you think THE FOSSIL is a BETTER alternative?[/QUOTE]

I think Fassel is a solid coach, but I think Williams is the better choice for the Redskins. However, I don't think hiring Fassel means the disaster others think it will. I also don't think it's as simple as Williams stepping in as HC and everything else staying as is. I think major changes could be down the pipeline regardless.

I'm not advocating Fassel, just saying let's not jump off a cliff over him

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

watch out guys here comes T BARBER !!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CAN COUNT ON THAT

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;410818]Careful what you wish for!! Do all of the people that wanted Gibbs to retire envision this? It's looking like a nightmare to me, if GW is not hired then let the age of mediocrity begin.[/quote]

I agree.

Gibbs if anything kept the stability of the team by having the clout to keep Snyder in check. Snyder had to stand down when it came to influence on the team.

Now that we have Synder unleashed there is no more stop gap for his wonderlust. Snyder will probably hire a coach who is not as demanding for front office control, hence this whole Fassel debacle.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=QBall;410759]What??????[/quote]

Go ahead and try to explain away what I said.

Facts are he has a winning record, he's coached a team to the Super Bowl, and GW's overall HC record doesn't stack up to his.

What exactly is in dispute here??

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

I still do not understand why GW has not interviewed for any other coaching position accept that maybe it's more lucrative for him to stay put and collect the 1 million dollars for being past over and then take a look at another job after the new hire.

I think we are missing something. I think Al Saunders gets the boot and Fassel becomes the OC. Otherwise who do you bring in that is not already a working Defensive coordinator to replace Williams. Rex Ryan if released by the Ravens?

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;410821]The extra G in Gregg does not stand for God. I don't understand this widespread panic that if he's not the next head coach we're destined for the apocalypse.

He's probably the best choice considering the circumstances but there are other more than capable alternatives.[/quote]

I think even from Snyder's perspective his best choice is Williams...I understand he's not some "god" but think about it. I've said this before, but if Williams comes in and goes anywhere from 6-10 to 8-8, which is very possible...there won't be nearly as many people saying "I told you so." If someone like Fassel comes in and gets that same record...it will further cement Snyder's image as a football moron

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;410829]I think Fassel is a solid coach, but I think Williams is the better choice for the Redskins. However, I don't think hiring Fassel means the disaster others think it will. I also don't think it's as simple as Williams stepping in as HC and everything else staying as is. I think major changes could be down the pipeline regardless.

I'm not advocating Fassel, just saying let's not jump off a cliff over him[/quote]

Well the fossil started off good in NY, but had a good team, his last year he finished what 4-12 or something and got fired.

His following coaching gig was I believe QB coach or something in Baltimore then got bumped up to OC, before he got fired by his buddy BB MID SEASON. I not convinced hes a good coach or even a good coordinator, one thing I really fell strong about hes NOT a good fit in DC in our locker room, unless they completely clean house.

Why do you see MAJOR changes coming down the pipeline, IF we hire GW as our next HC?

Of course no jumping off the bridge either way, its not gonna change any of the out come that lies ahead. Take a wait and see approach, NO CHOICE!

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

Greg Williams gets the best out of decent talent. He's done so over the last 4 years. Does anyone think that another DC can get our D into the top 10 next year. I'd bet not. If GW goes, bye bye good defense.

Fassel...mediocre, aging, x-gaint...I don't like it at all. His players quit on him before. I'd rather go w/ Schwartz or Spagnualo if GW's doesn't get the gig. Mark me down as a HUGE no.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=Mattyk72;410835]Go ahead and try to explain away what I said.

Facts are he has a winning record, he's coached a team to the Super Bowl, and GW's overall HC record doesn't stack up to his.

What exactly is in dispute here??[/quote]

Well that is true. BUT, look at the talent both coach's had to work with. That might have a little something to do with the win/loss record or success level.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

I do not think Fassel's technical knowledge of professional football in any way rivals that of Gregg Williams. However, he's less of a short fuse, and from the standpoint of sustaining success, is probably more suited to a prolonged stay here than Williams would be.

Coaches like Williams will inevitably overstay their welcomes. In 2002, the Raiders hired Bill Callahan for continuity purposes with an old team, and the Raiders won the AFC and played in the super bowl.

In 2003, the age caught up to the team, Callahan was ill-equipped mentally to deal with such failure, and blew up on the team.

Gregg Williams may have infinitely more football knowledge than Jim Fassel, but if the Redskins do hire Fassel, how can we be so sure that Williams would have been the better choice. If the Redskins hire Williams, how can we be sure that Fassel wouldn't have been the better choice?

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;410818] if GW is not hired then let the age of mediocrity begin.[/quote]


Don't you mean, "let the age of mediocrity continue"? And even that would be generous.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=Coff;410849]Don't you mean, "let the age of mediocrity continue"? And even that would be generous.[/QUOTE]

At least we made 2 trips out of 4 years to the playoffs. We'll see what the next regime gives us.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

If Fassel does get the job here, Jason Campbell instantly becomes the best QB he has coached in the last ten years.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=Coff;410849]Don't you mean, "let the age of mediocrity continue"? And even that would be generous.[/QUOTE]

I'd like to suggest prepending your username with the sound "fah."

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;410835]Go ahead and try to explain away what I said.

Facts are he has a winning record, he's coached a team to the Super Bowl, and GW's overall HC record doesn't stack up to his.

What exactly is in dispute here??[/QUOTE]

For the sake of argument, a 60-56-1 record, while winning, is not exactly stunning. 2-3 in the playoffs in 7 seasons is not too thrilling either. And let's remember, his best season was his first (when he won coach of the year) and that was in 1997. I hear where your coming from but remember, the guy got fired by his best friend.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=redwagonskins;410882]For the sake of argument, a 60-56-1 record, while winning, is not exactly stunning. 2-3 in the playoffs in 7 seasons is not too thrilling either. And let's remember, his best season was his first (when he won coach of the year) and that was in 1997. I hear where your coming from but remember, the guy got fired by his best friend.[/quote]

Still much better than what GW did as HC. Hell even better than Gibbs 2.0 for what it's worth.

That's all I'm saying.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;410884]Still much better than what GW did as HC. Hell even better than Gibbs 2.0 for what it's worth.

That's all I'm saying.[/QUOTE]

Very true. We could do worse (see Pete Carrol). I think what gets me is I see the two guys as pretty even in terms of experience etc... except that GW has been around. Not that things would stay the status quo but if the boss is going to preach continuity, then lets see some. If not, get someone who is a significant improvement. But I see where you're coming from.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;410861]I'd like to suggest prepending your username with the sound "fah."[/QUOTE]

Best post of the thread :)

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;410848]I do not think Fassel's technical knowledge of professional football in any way rivals that of Gregg Williams. However, he's less of a short fuse, and from the standpoint of sustaining success, is probably more suited to a prolonged stay here than Williams would be.

Coaches like Williams will inevitably overstay their welcomes. In 2002, the Raiders hired Bill Callahan for continuity purposes with an old team, and the Raiders won the AFC and played in the super bowl.

In 2003, the age caught up to the team, Callahan was ill-equipped mentally to deal with such failure, and blew up on the team.

Gregg Williams may have infinitely more football knowledge than Jim Fassel, but if the Redskins do hire Fassel, how can we be so sure that Williams would have been the better choice. If the Redskins hire Williams, how can we be sure that Fassel wouldn't have been the better choice?[/QUOTE]

For Redskins fans, the other choice is always the better choice

Now as to the first part of your post, maybe it is a matter of Fossil being less of a disciplinarian that gives him the alleged advantage.

I don't know. I just want to hire someone and move on to reaffirming my case for Aqib Talib (or maybe Cason) with our first pick

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[quote=SmootSmack;410896]For Redskins fans, the other choice is always the better choice

Now as to the first part of your post, maybe it is a matter of Fossil being less of a disciplinarian that gives him the alleged advantage.

I don't know. I just want to hire someone and move on to reaffirming my case for Aqib Talib (or maybe Cason) with our first pick[/quote]Corner, eh?

We do really have a legitimate need there, even assuming Rogers returns AND develops. If he doesn't or doesn't, that need becomes absolutely critical starting from day 1 post Springs (March 2nd?).

That said, I am in favor of stopgapping this time, and just finding a veteran nickelback to hold down the fort.

Course, I'll save the rest of my rant for the proper time and fourm.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

I just heard on NFL network Total Access that Fassel could be the HC with Rex Ryan serving as the DC

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

Here's what I have learned about football by watching and observing it for 20 years now. Head Coaching has less to do with the Xs and Os of it than does simple people management.

There are many coaches who are great Xs and Os guys and they can win. Norv Turner comes to mind. Brian Billick too. There are great "people" guys and they can win too. Jimmy Johnson and Jeff Fischer come to mind. Then there are the guys who can do both. These are the guys who DO WIN. Guys like Parcells, Belichek, and Reid.

The two ingredients are mostly learned but we can all probably admit that it is easier to overcome a lack of technical knowledge than it is the "management" stuff.

Looking at Fassel and Williams, and leaving continuity and locker room support out of it for a minute, we have to decide what we know and what we don't.

Here we go:

Fassel - adequate Xs and Os guy probably who seemed to always have a good hold on his teams for about 10 games at which point they often tanked and he lost control. That was his MO there and why he got fired. He kept losing his team when things got even remotely rough. At least that's how I recall it. Someone correct me if I am wrong. He had a nice long run there and it was at the end where his people management didn't look so hot. Much of me doubts this has changed.

Williams - arguably one of the best Xs and Os guys in the league. Respected by all for his accumen and schemes. Had good defenses in Tennessee and here even with often lacking talent. He also had good defenses in Buffalo as head coach where he had an established roster that was probably difficult to corral initially. His record was lacking partly due to mediocre talent and difficulties gaining control. But alas he didn't get a ton of time to get his management style established and aceepted by a group of "his" guys and probably we can't judge too harshly on this.

So what do we know? We have two guys with disparate technical skills and questionable leadership skills. One probably isn't a very good leader and the other MAY not be. But one has had more success as a HC.

It comes down to this. Is Williams going to be able to lead? If he is better than he showed in Buffalo then he is a no brainer and we'd dumb to let him go. I am personally inclined to think he is closer to Belichek in his coaching style and maybe, just maybe his second stint as a HC will bear that out. Not saying he is remotely near that level but he gives me that vibe.

Fassel is a known commodity and I think we can judge that it isn't greatness that he'll bring.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

Solid post FRPLG. My biggest fear, as I've stated before, with Fassel is that it just feels like he's a lame-duck coach just keeping the seat warm for Cowher in 2009. I really hope that's not the case. Nothing against Cowher but it was so refreshing to have the same coach for 4 straight years.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;410906]Solid post FRPLG. My biggest fear, as I've stated before, with Fassel is that it just feels like he's a lame-duck coach just keeping the seat warm for Cowher in 2009. I really hope that's not the case. Nothing against Cowher but it was so refreshing to have the same coach for 4 straight years.[/QUOTE]

It was refreshing to have the same sytems and regimes really. We can live without Gibbs but overhauling just seems so unnecessary.

I aslo would wonder if that was the case why they wouldn't just crown GG's ass(thanks Denny) coach and pull the trigger next year? Keep the locker room happy for a season and see how it goes.

Re: Fassel meets with Redskins over coaching vacancies
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;410907]It was refreshing to have the same sytems and regimes really. We can live without Gibbs but overhauling just seems so unnecessary.

I aslo would wonder if that was the case why they wouldn't just crown GG's ass(thanks Denny) coach and pull the trigger next year? Keep the locker room happy for a season and see how it goes.[/QUOTE]

My guess is Williams wouldn't accept something like that. Williams has some clout considering his recent success (at least on the defensive side). Fassel on the other hand, is trying to get back into the league