Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;441561]We would still have 8 picks to fill holes.

I think we're going a little overboard here if trading away one pick means the draft is blown.[/quote]

If we were one player away or we were a team knocking on the door to the SB then I could see. Kind of like how Philly traded for TO. But we barely made the playoffs and we were one and done. We need a solid two years of good drafting before we're that type of team. The whole O-line is going to have to be replaced in 2 years. Most people might not want to admit it but we're a team in transition right now. Why potentially set yourself back for the future by trading for this guy. It's just not smart football.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;441561]We would still have 8 picks to fill holes.

I think we're going a little overboard here if trading away one pick means the draft is blown.[/quote]

What's one or two of the team's early picks over the past 5 years?

Overboard is thinking that this has no ill effect on the future of our franchise.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

No for some reason some people believe that we should draft a non proven WR which is a crap shoot as to how they will play in the NFL.

Others would have you believe we need Defensive players only......again not mentioning the fact that they may not pan out any better either. People here would rather waist a draft pick on some one who has a 50/50 chance of staying on the team. I think out of the 7 picks last yr only 4 stayed with the team. Hell we did better with our invites....Marcus Mason and the O-Lineman who filled in for Jansen. The only sure bet and it still is a crap shoot is the 1st round pick. Defensively you can usually pick up good talent in the later rounds...especially if the draft is deep on that side of the ball as it is this yr.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

No, overboard is thinking that this trade would somehow ruin the entire immediate future of the team.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;441565]If we were one player away or we were a team knocking on the door to the SB then I could see. Kind of like how Philly traded for TO. But we barely made the playoffs and we were one and done. We need a solid two years of good drafting before we're that type of team. The whole O-line is going to have to be replaced in 2 years. Most people might not want to admit it but we're a team in transition right now. Why potentially set yourself back for the future by trading for this guy. It's just not smart football.[/QUOTE]

We're trading away one pick ONE PICK in the 2008 draft for one of the best wide receivers in the game, a position we need. We'll still have 8 more picks. Plus who's to say we can't trade back into the 3rd round next year if need be? Not to mention a couple more comp picks will probably come our way from the Reche and Macklin signings (at least one).

I think that people just aren't thinking here. They just have it ingrained in their minds that because of failed maneuvers like Lloyd and Duckett. Yet we tend to forget failed draft maneuevers like Taylor Jacobs.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

espn says the bengals have
[COLOR="Red"]REJECTED [/COLOR]any trade for chad johnson.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;441557]Hackett is at least a scheme player and has played along Zorn in the WCO the last three years.

Not comparable to CJ in physical talent but he would at least fit in with our offensive scheme and would not have come at a great cost.[/quote]
So what is our Offensive scheme? If I'm correct they are still drawing up the plays.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;441561]We would still have 8 picks to fill holes.

I think we're going a little overboard here if trading away one pick means the draft is blown.[/quote]

Yes and no. It won't "blow" our draft, but it will hurt it since the traded pick will be our highest. Also, of the remaining 8 picks, 3 are 7th rounders. 7th rounders are definitely a crap shoot.

I'm in between. I think this proposed trade would hurt and help at the same time. It's not going to ruin the franchise by any means, but it will certainly be odd given the way we lowballed DJ Hackett, didn't even give Bryan Johnson a sniff, and have been preaching restraint and building through the draft.

As great as CJ is, it's still trading multiple picks for a very expensive 30 year old with a huge mouth and a penchant for whining when his team underperforms.

I'm still baffled the way we let Hackett get away. He's 4 years younger than Chad, waaaaay cheaper, big, very fast, and played for a few years with Zorn. Granted he's not the player CJ is, but he would have helped a lot at a smallish price and we wouldn't have had to give up a single draft pick.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

why do you guys want a guy like that on our team. idc how good he is. and that is too much to give up for anybody

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=steveo395;441575]why do you guys want a guy like that on our team. idc how good he is. and that is too much to give up for anybody[/quote]

Looking back on last year would you say Randy Moss would have been worth that sort of compensation?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;441566]What's one or two of the team's early picks over the past 5 years?

Overboard is thinking that this has no ill effect on the future of our franchise.[/quote]

Besides Arch, and Lloyd the only complaint I have is the Ducket deal. I for one did not believe we needed a RB. We were set at RB. No one will be able to change my mind but I totally believe that deal was about Gibbs wanting to keep a good/great RB out of the other NFC East teams. Philly was looking at him hard and was possibly looking to make another run at the playoffs with a better RB they might have done just that. The deal was a total waist! No bones about it. Totally agree with everyone on that deal. We traded to much for talent we already had on the team. As for the WR spot I don't see us giving up to much, especially for a WR like CJ. I would give it up for Williams also. Either one would be fine by me. I just get upset at the people who think CJ is an issue and we sign a kick returner who allegedly assaulted his pregnant girlfriend/wife. CJ will rock the boat but no one was up in arms when CP was putting on the ritz. CJ is to old...but we have older players in other possitions. CJ will cost to much...Snyder's going rate has been 30 mill for what 5-6 yrs for the past positional players WR and CB. CJ it sounds like was only going to make 21 mill. Our team can't handle the likes of a CJ......everyone forgot Arrington I guess. His tempertantrum led him to the bench. He was more humiliated there than missing his blocks.

The best Cincy can do is pull what we did to Arrington...bench him. The best CJ could do is show up and maybe be only 50% on the field. Drop a few ball or better yet tip a few balls and have them accidently fall into the opponants hands. He would quickly be benched (getting paid the whole time) or traded. I would certainly welcome sitting on the bench and getting paid to not break a leg.

Cincy thinks it's just a tempertantrum....I wonder what will be next.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;441578]Looking back on last year would you say Randy Moss would have been worth that sort of compensation?[/quote]

It's a very different situation than Randy Moss.

As the old ball coach would say, "hindsight is 50-50," but the Pats gave up a 4th rounder for Randy and only paid him $3M for a record setting season. A far cry from a 1st and 3rd (or higher), not to mention I'm sure Rosen-shit will negotiate a 6 yr, $60M+ contract for him if he lands elsewhere.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

I can't believe that the Bengals wouldnt jump on that trade.

That is a lot to give for a disgruntled receiver even if it is CJ. And if we are going to be stuck at #21 id rather trade for a star receiver then waste a first round pick on a bust.

This is Detroit's misses at Top Ten Receivers:
2005: Passed on Shawn Merriman to select Mike Williams- USC
2003: Passed on Troy Palumalu to select Charles Rogers-Michigan State

Can you imagine how much improved this team would be if they would not have wasted there picks on receivers who are NOT on the team anymore. Lets draft someone else then a WR with our number 1. Ill trade the pick for an elite receiver rather then take the gamble of a bust.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=skinsfan69;441562]So that's two potential starters for one?? Either way it's a bad deal and I'm glad Cinn saved us from the FO's stupidity. That's why we have no depth cause we always do these two for one deals.[/quote]


the key word there is [B]POTENTIAL[/B] starters, you dont know what your going to get with the draft, CJ is a proven player

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=Mattyk72;441555]The conditions would probably be pretty steep for it to escalate to a 1st, I think SS speculated the Skins would have to make the NFC Championship and CJ would have to break the all time TD record.[/quote]

Ah! That being said, I'm cautiously optimistic.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

If we're going to offer a 1st and a 3rd, I would prefer that the offer be made to KC first for franchised Jared Allen, then use our 2nd rounder to address WR. Chad's good, but is he Randy Moss or TO (when their heads are on straight)? I don't think so.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;441563]Actually I think the deal that was offered was very fair for both sides. CJ is a guy who routinely puts up 90+ catches and 1300-1400 yards. You're not going to get a guy like that for a 4th round pick, this isn't Maddens we're talking about.[/quote]

I love Madden

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES;441591]I love Madden[/quote]

LOL me too

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

Smootsmack
"We're trading away one pick ONE PICK in the 2008 draft for one of the best wide receivers in the game, a position we need. We'll still have 8 more picks. Plus who's to say we can't trade back into the 3rd round next year if need be? Not to mention a couple more comp picks will probably come our way from the Reche and Macklin signings (at least one).

I think that people just aren't thinking here. They just have it ingrained in their minds that because of failed maneuvers like Lloyd and Duckett. Yet we tend to forget failed draft maneuevers like Taylor Jacobs."

Smoot you are 100% right. Talk about hitting the nail on the head. We don't have a top five pick this year so give it up who cares. We can get a guy with HOF potential (I stress the word potential). We are not selling our souls for a 1 and next years third. We can only get better with him and we become legitimate. If we get Chad, then we really are one or two guys away from the Superbowl (the Giants probably thought they were one or two away to before the season started last year, look how that turned out). Chad is 30 that is not old for receivers these days (Owens 35, Moss 31). So there is even an upside of about 4-7 years of high level play from him. If we get a guy like Manningham or anyone that falls to 21, he won't play as well as Chad. And here is the kicker he might not even be around the redskins 4-7 years. So we save in development time and get a top three receiver. Danny should go get him and up the offer if possible. What about Betts, the 1st, and the next years 2 (guaranteed)?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=SouperMeister;441590]If we're going to offer a 1st and a 3rd, I would prefer that the offer be made to KC first for franchised Jared Allen, then use our 2nd rounder to address WR. [B]Chad's good, but is he Randy Moss or TO (when their heads are on straight)? I don't think so.[/B][/quote]

I do. Look at his numbers. He hasn't missed a start since '03, and in the last 5 seasons he has more yards, catches, and 1st downs than any player in league, never having less than 87 catches, 1274 yards, and 7TDs over that span. He's amazing.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

Chad Johnson in my opinion is better than TO. Yes TO is more physical but Chad's hands are better and people it is not like we are giving up the 3rd-10th overall pick, it is 21 for goodness sake. please stop acting like if this trade goes down that all hope is lost forever.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES;441591]I love Madden[/quote]


It is a great game!

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=firstdown;441413]Well if you look at the history of WR's in general I bet your wrong. You listed 7 WR's and there are how many that have played the game in that time span? I could go in and pick a ton in that span who's # that dropped off after 30. Its a crap shot and you think he is good for another 4 to 5 years (which I think he is) you just don't know when the body is going to turn on a player. I'm not saying your wrong I just don't think history is on your side in this situation.[/quote]

go ahead and back it up with proof then. dominant WRs only though, not crap players that bounced around the league.

galloway is ancient and still had 1k seasons beyond 30 (at 36 i think).

it's not a crap shoot, WRs don't take much abuse, and he just showed that history is on his side. I mean, i understand not wanting to be wrong, but come on.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;441589]Ah! That being said, I'm cautiously optimistic.[/QUOTE]

Don't quote me on those conditions though. Still trying to verify and Mort's too busy to talk to me today...sigh

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=GMScud;441596]I do. Look at his numbers. He hasn't missed a start since '03, and in the last 5 seasons he has more yards, catches, and 1st downs than any player in league, never having less than 87 catches, 1274 yards, and 7TDs over that span. He's amazing.[/quote]

You can put his numbers up there with just about anyone.

CJ is a big time WR. Anyone who says anything to the contrary just doesn't know what he's talking about.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;441588]the key word there is [B]POTENTIAL[/B] starters, you dont know what your going to get with the draft, CJ is a proven player[/quote]

So are Chris Cooley and Laron Laundry. One's a probowler and one is a future pro bowler and both are home grown.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;441574]Yes and no. It won't "blow" our draft, but it will hurt it since the traded pick will be our highest. Also, of the remaining 8 picks, 3 are 7th rounders. 7th rounders are definitely a crap shoot. [/QUOTE]

Are you more upset that it's a trade for Chad Johnson or a trade of the pick?

[QUOTE]I'm in between. I think this proposed trade would hurt and help at the same time. It's not going to ruin the franchise by any means, but it will certainly be odd given the way we lowballed DJ Hackett, didn't even give Bryan Johnson a sniff, and have been preaching restraint and building through the draft. [/QUOTE]

What Cerrato had said from the start was that they didn't expect to be big players in free agency this year (which we weren't) but that he is always looking for ways to improve the team and would entertain trade possibilities if he feels it would improve the team.

[QUOTE]As great as CJ is, it's still trading multiple picks for a very expensive 30 year old with a huge mouth and a penchant for whining when his team underperforms.[/QUOTE]

It ain't braggin' if you can back it up :)

[QUOTE]I'm still baffled the way we let Hackett get away. He's 4 years younger than Chad, waaaaay cheaper, big, very fast, and played for a few years with Zorn. Granted he's not the player CJ is, but he would have helped a lot at a smallish price and we wouldn't have had to give up a single draft pick.[/QUOTE]

I've said this before but I'll say it again. Why don't we even remotely consider that Zorn is very familiar with Hackett, and that's why we didn't sign him. That maybe, jussssst maybe, Zorn said "Hey, this guy has potential and can contribute but I've been around him every day for the past several years and keep this, this, that, and that in mind. And this is how I see him fitting in and this is what he's worth." (and it's not as much as the fans think)

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;441602]You can put his numbers up there with just about anyone.

CJ is a big time WR. Anyone who says anything to the contrary just doesn't know what he's talking about.[/quote]
100% on the money right there.


Smart offer by the Skins... they want to bait us into offering more, and I hope we don't. I like this offer, but anything substantially more seems unpractical.

I also like the conditional picks. Subtle differences from our past, but differences none the less.

Wish Cinci pulled the trigger on this one, who knows... it may happen before draft day.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;441571]We're trading away one pick ONE PICK in the 2008 draft for one of the best wide receivers in the game, a position we need. We'll still have 8 more picks. Plus who's to say we can't trade back into the 3rd round next year if need be? Not to mention a couple more comp picks will probably come our way from the Reche and Macklin signings (at least one).

I think that people just aren't thinking here. They just have it ingrained in their minds that because of failed maneuvers like Lloyd and Duckett. Yet we tend to forget failed draft maneuevers like Taylor Jacobs.[/quote]

Why would we give up two picks when we're a team that's in transition with many holes to fill? Does anyone remember the Seattle game last year?? Does anyone remember our o-line not being able to protect the QB or get a 1/2 yard in crucial 4th and short situations?? Or not being able to get the ball to Santana cause Collins was getting killed?? DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THAT?? It doesn't matter if we get CJ cause if the QB is on his backside then what good is it? Plus he's going to want a new deal. I just lost all faith in our FO. There just going back to their band-aid tactics.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;441571]We're trading away one pick ONE PICK in the 2008 draft for one of the best wide receivers in the game, a position we need. We'll still have 8 more picks. Plus who's to say we can't trade back into the 3rd round next year if need be? Not to mention a couple more comp picks will probably come our way from the Reche and Macklin signings (at least one).

I think that people just aren't thinking here. They just have it ingrained in their minds that because of failed maneuvers like Lloyd and Duckett. Yet we tend to forget failed draft maneuevers like Taylor Jacobs.[/QUOTE]

Dealing two early round picks for Chad Johnson would not doom our franchise and, at least in the short run, it would likely dramatically improve our offense. Chad is simply a dominant player who could really open things up for Cooley, Portis, Moss, and ARE. But, at 30 years of age, Chad Johnson wouldn't help us find a solution to problems that we are going to have to face pretty soon....youth and depth.

We and projected to field one of the oldest starting lineups in the league. We are likely to lose key starters at several positions within the next 2 years. Aside from QB and RB, I think we have depth issues at every position. It is becoming increasingly difficult to fill holes and build depth via free agency. So, in my opinion, we need to acquire more depth and youth via: (1) the draft; and/or (2) trades. Trading for Chad isn't making a trade for a younger, proven player and it costs us the opportunity to draft young, cheap talent.

So, IMO, while the world wouldn't end if we did make the trade, there are certainly legitimate reasons to think it might cause problems for us down the line.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;441610]Why would we give up two picks when we're a team that's in transition with many holes to fill? Does anyone remember the Seattle game last year?? Does anyone remember our o-line not being able to protect the QB or get a 1/2 yard in crucial 4th and short situations?? Or not being able to get the ball to Santana cause Collins was getting killed?? DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THAT?? It doesn't matter if we get CJ cause if the QB is on his backside then what good is it? Plus he's going to want a new deal. I just lost all faith in our FO. There just going back to their band-aid tactics.[/QUOTE]

Are you assuming an OL is going to fall to us with the #21 pick? Because if not, then your argument holds no weight.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=skinsfan69;441604]So are Chris Cooley and Laron Laundry. One's a probowler and one is a future pro bowler and both are home grown.[/quote]


yes still potential starters. Whose to say that whoever we draft will be a bust or a gem?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES;441591]I love Madden[/quote]

I love Madden to, in the sense that I've seen plenty of people start off with a valid argument and then totally discredit it by saying something like "and oh yeah, he's awesome on Madden." This is mainly with Anthony Mix but I've seen it with a couple of other players to.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

What will it take for Mike Brown to budge?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;441611]Dealing two early round picks for Chad Johnson would not doom our franchise and, at least in the short run, it would likely dramatically improve our offense. Chad is simply a dominant player who could really open things up for Cooley, Portis, Moss, and ARE. But, at 30 years of age, Chad Johnson wouldn't help us find a solution to problems that we are going to have to face pretty soon....youth and depth.

We and projected to field one of the oldest starting lineups in the league. We are likely to lose key starters at several positions within the next 2 years. Aside from QB and RB, I think we have depth issues at every position. It is becoming increasingly difficult to fill holes and build depth via free agency. So, in my opinion, we need to acquire more depth and youth via: (1) the draft; and/or (2) trades. Trading for Chad isn't making a trade for a younger, proven player and it costs us the opportunity to draft young, cheap talent.

So, IMO, while the world wouldn't end if we did make the trade, there are certainly legitimate reasons to think it might cause problems for us down the line.[/QUOTE]

I think we're really making too big a deal out of this whole 30 year old issue. He likely has many good years ahead of him.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=theJBexperience;441616]What will it take for Mike Brown to budge?[/quote]

Probably a picture of him with a women besides his wife, assuming he's married.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;441619]I think we're really making too big a deal out of this whole 30 year old issue. He likely has many good years ahead of him.[/quote]

Yep, 4 of the leading WRs from last year are 30 or over, and I threw Wayne in there because he's right at the cusp

R. Moss - 31
Johnson - 30
Owens - 34
Holt - 31
Wayne - 29

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

We have 9 picks!

SKINS! If you are listening....DONT DO IT!!!

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;441619]I think we're really making too big a deal out of this whole 30 year old issue. He likely has many good years ahead of him.[/QUOTE]

I think he has several more years of solid production. But, we wouldn't merely acquire a 30 year old, we'd also lose out on the opportunity to acquire two 21-23 year olds when we're clearly facing age and depth issues. Granted, we have 8 other picks in 2008 and 5 others in 2009. But, as you noted, drafting a future stud is no easy feat. I'd be surprised if we drafted more than 3 future starters with our current crop of picks (or 2 if we traded our 1st rounder).

I want to emphasize that, although I'd oppose trading 2 high picks for Chad, I don't believe that such a trade would send our franchise down the crapper. I simply think there are very legitimate reasons to be concerned with the rumored offer.

Also, I want to mention that, unlike most experts, I supported the Redskins decisions to pursue Cornelius Griffin, Marcus Washington, Clinton Portis, Coles/Moss, etc. I don't have a problem with using free agency or trades to acquire younger, budding stars. I think most people here distinguished our 2000 free agent acquisitions from the 2004 free agent acquisitions by noting that the players we acquired in 2004 were young. I'm also not opposed to any trades involving 30 year olds. I just think that it wouldn't be the best move to do so here.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;441615]I love Madden to, in the sense that I've seen plenty of people start off with a valid argument and then totally discredit it by saying something like "and oh yeah, he's awesome on Madden." This is mainly with Anthony Mix but I've seen it with a couple of other players to.[/quote]


Man what about Maurice Jones-Drew he is a horse man, he as BOTH the elusive back and the power back ratings it is crazy