Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

Apparently, he not only needs to make the team but play in a regular season game.
If he rides the bench all year....we keep our 7th according to below article

"The Vikings will get the draft pick only if James plays in a regular-season game in 2008."
[url=http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/19305254.html?location_refer=Most%20Viewed:Homepage]Redskins give up draft pick for James[/url]

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

I think this is a low risk move that can bring some decent returns. If James gets cut nothing is lost. Even if he makes the team we lose a 7th round pick which is not much. Plus lets say he makes the team and gets hurt in mid-season - we simply cut him and since the contract is non-guranteed we only pay the prorated amount he was on the team.
Relax everyone - this is such a small move and so low risk it is not worth getting all up in arms about!

Also, I would have like to see people's reaction to when the Redskins acquired Daryl Gardner a few years back and how they may have thought that was a mistake - he only produced a ton for a low salary. Than when Gardner demanded a ton the Redskins FO was smart and did not overpay him like the Broncos did and look how that turned out.

I think Cerrato and company are making the right moves now and as long as you are carfeul about shelling out $10 million signing bonuses and don't give away multiple high draft picks you are going in the right direction. Avoid the Brandon Llyod, Adam Archuleta and TJ Duckett type trades and you'll be fine! This move is nothing like those and is about as low risk as you can get. Also the reason the Skins traded for him was if James was released there were teams in front of the Redskins that would have picked him up on the waiver wire before the Skins would have had a chance to sign him.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;450296]so for 1.5mill we get 10 sacks? for 3mill we get 20? that's the best value ever :P

i mean, there's not a single team that'd pass on paying a DE 16$mill a year if he got 32 sacks every season (and that's over three times your retail sack value).

the problem, of course, is that the NFL sacks for cash equation isn't linear by any means.

also, such a thing would be a bit shortsighted, since, by that standard, making 8 game winning tackles while having 0 sacks would be a failure to attain value...[/QUOTE]

I was just responding to a post that asked...how many sacks do you need to feel we broke even...I thought he'd be making 600k...So I figured 4 sacks is good for that....at 1 mil...6 sacks would be great.
I know its not linear...just trying to respond with a reasonable sack expectation....now that we know he's 1 million...i would be very happy with a 6 sack year....wouldn't you?..regarding the incentive to play the run ...James aint good at that...he'll be a situational pass rusher at best....now lets just hope he passes the physical...

We see it all the time...if a team wants to cut someone with injury histories...all they have to do is fail them...then somehow....another team miraculously passes them.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;450313]Apparently, he not only needs to make the team but play in a regular season game.
If he rides the bench all year....we keep our 7th according to below article

"The Vikings will get the draft pick only if James plays in a regular-season game in 2008."
[url=http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/19305254.html?location_refer=Most%20Viewed:Homepage]Redskins give up draft pick for James[/url][/QUOTE]

Very interesting. I don't know how this is a "savvy move" by the Vikings though.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;450317]Very interesting. I don't know how this is a "savvy move" by the Vikings though.[/QUOTE]

Maybe they meant Salvey....ya know...they are saving money on Salve for James

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

Savvy because the worst that will happen is...nothing. He's gone from the Vikings. The oft chance he makes the Skins' 53, they'll get something for their nothing...

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

I like this move... yes he has been injured but in college this man was unstoppable...he payed at wisconson where i see our new d-line coach john pallermo had worked with him hope things work out...come on guys we only give up a 7th rd. pick in 09 if he makes the team...we need more guys on the line anyways we are very thin at the position i hope we make some more moves to upgrade our team....

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

Highly unlikely, but how would the Vkings feel if he makes a full recovery and becomes a perinial probowler. Then again how shitty will we feel if he makes the 53 man roster, plays a few games and then suffers a career ending injury. Bye bye pick. If they do not like him early, then he needs to get cut immediately.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

Anyone else hear that Vinnny was the one who offered to make the trade to keep James off the waiver wire. The Vikes agreed and rescinded the waiver. I heard like 20 teams were after him.

Nevermind, I saw where someone mentioned it already.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;450331]Anyone else hear that Vinnny was the one who offered to make the trade to keep James off the waiver wire. The Vikes agreed and rescinded the waiver. I heard like 20 teams were after him.

Nevermind, I saw where someone mentioned it already.[/QUOTE]

I believe there were 20 teams that could have picked James had he gone on waivers before the Redskins could. I don't know if that's the same as saying 20 teams were after James.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

The dreaded double post...

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[quote=skinsnut;450316]I was just responding to a post that asked...how many sacks do you need to feel we broke even...I thought he'd be making 600k...So I figured 4 sacks is good for that....at 1 mil...6 sacks would be great.
I know its not linear...just trying to respond with a reasonable sack expectation....now that we know he's 1 million...i would be very happy with a 6 sack year....wouldn't you?..regarding the incentive to play the run ...James aint good at that...he'll be a situational pass rusher at best....now lets just hope he passes the physical...

We see it all the time...if a team wants to cut someone with injury histories...all they have to do is fail them...then somehow....another team miraculously passes them.[/quote]

how many backup DEs get 6 sacks in a year? i think those expectations are pretty unrealistic.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;450335]how many backup DEs get 6 sacks in a year? i think those expectations are pretty unrealistic.[/QUOTE]

Ironically, the only backup DE I know of who recently racked up 6+ sacks is.....Chris Clemons.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

You know it's a slow time of year when the trade of a conditional 7th round pick generates this much discussion. LOL

Hopefully his play on the field with generate some discussion this season.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;450340][B]You know it's a slow time of year when the trade of a conditional 7th round pick generates this much discussion. LOL[/B]

Hopefully his play on the field with generate some discussion this season.[/QUOTE]

All I have to say is Chris Wilson and thread hell.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

LOL that Chris Wilson thread last year was a Warpath classic.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

Chris Wilson will have between 6 and 9 sacks this year, so if Washington can get 3-7, we will be solid rushing the passer from the left. Our problem will be in the middle. I hope Griff could get 3-5, but I doubt it. Hopefully Golston and Montgomery can get a couple of sacks each and then our front 7 would be set for the year, until 09 draft and FA. On a side note, I was wondering what you guys thought about bringing in Jeremy Newberry as a backup center?

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

Can anyone think of a first round 'bust' DL who ever went on to contribute in any meaningful way with another team. I'm trying to think of an example, but I'm having trouble coming up with any names. No need to reiterate the ubiquitous 'low-risk, high-reward' (I get it) but wanted to emphasize that if the last 10 years or so are any measure then the 'reward' probably won't be very high at all. Getting anything from the guy would really be a surprise given past precedent.

Daryl Gardener did turn in a good year for the Skins in 2002, that's one name perhaps (though his career ended the next year when he suffered another back injury after signing with Denver). I'll think you'll be hard pressed to think of anyone ... I couldn't. (Chris Hovan maybe? Though he had showed some promise in Minnesota before falling out of favor and not fitting in with the defensive scheme).

More recently, names that fit the criteria include Ryan Sims, Jonathan Sullivan, Wendell Bryant, Jimmy Kennedy, William Joseph, etc.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

If I am reading the injury information correctly "he (James) underwent three surgical procedures on his left knee in a 13-month period."
".....he (James) again tore the anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee last December."

Given that he is only 5 months from his most recent ACL replacement, I see it very difficult for James to make the opening day roster. In September it would only be 9 months. Maybe they put him on a reserve/injured list or something like that. I do not see him ready in September to go against a 300 pound left tackle on a bad knee.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

Depends a lot on how bad his most recent injury was. Was it a complete tear?

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

141 posts on this thread? Wow. This guy won't be ready for the season. He tore his left ACL for the second time less than 6 months ago. This trade is close to meaningless IMO.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;450350]Depends a lot on how bad his most recent injury was. Was it a complete tear?[/QUOTE]

It was a complete tear both in 07 and 06.
According to the Vikings both surgeries were considered major, meaning ACL graft/replacement. Last year 2007-2008 season Erasmus James' comeback from major knee surgery lasted all of three or four plays. He tore his ACL again after just a few plays. According to USA Today. This guy is a long shot.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=jbcjr14;450334]The dreaded double post...[/QUOTE]

Sorry. Been having internet issues all day.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;450354]It was a complete tear both in 07 and 06.
According to the Vikings both surgeries were considered major, meaning ACL graft/replacement. Last year 2007-2008 season Erasmus James' comeback from major knee surgery lasted all of three or four plays. He tore his ACL again after just a few plays. According to USA Today. This guy is a long shot.[/QUOTE]

I think the last time we got someone with knee issues and multiple surgeries from the Vikings was when we got Terry Allen.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[quote=Defensewins;450354]It was a complete tear both in 07 and 06.
According to the Vikings both surgeries were considered major, meaning ACL graft/replacement. Last year 2007-2008 season Erasmus James' comeback from major knee surgery lasted all of three or four plays. He tore his ACL again after just a few plays. According to USA Today. This guy is a long shot.[/quote]

Yeah he's a long shot but at the same time coming back from multiple knee injuries isn't the kiss of death that it used to be.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[quote=SmootSmack;450358]I think the last time we got someone with knee issues and multiple surgeries from the Vikings was when we got Terry Allen.[/quote]

Terry Allen was coming off back-to-back 1000+ yard seasons and had started 32 consecutive games when we got him from Minny.

He had knee issues but at least he proved he could make it through a season and perform at a high level.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;450360]Terry Allen was coming off back-to-back 1000+ yard seasons and had started 32 consecutive games when we got him from Minny.

He had knee issues but at least he proved he could make it through a season and perform at a high level.[/QUOTE]

I see what you're saying, but that's not entirely accurate. He tore his knee up in 1990 (his rookie year) and missed that season. He played half a season in 1991 and then a full season in 1992. But then he missed all of 1993 following another torn ACL, and then played a full season in 1994.

So two out of three years before the Redskins got him.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;450347]Can anyone think of a first round 'bust' DL who ever went on to contribute in any meaningful way with another team. I'm trying to think of an example, but I'm having trouble coming up with any names.[/quote]

James wasn't a bust on the field. His major knee issues just kept him off it. If somehow he makes a full recovery we very easily could get rewarded big time for a seventh round pick. Remember that his most recent surgery was performed by Dr. Andrews. He is the best of the best. The previous surgeries could have been botched. Probably not, but let's say he does make a full recovery. That could really really help us. James is a very good football player.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;450283]He's making 1 million.

Do you know how much the 'vet min' is? It's going to be between 650,000-800,000 this season.

Or just a hair under 1 million, which is what James is making.[/QUOTE]

From JLC and Redskins Insider:

"Also, I screwed something up yesterday and, like a moron, forgot what year it was (seriously) when looking at Erasmus James's contract. Indeed he does have a $1 million salary left on his contract ... but that's in 2009. [B]In 2008 he will earn $695,000 if he makes the Redskins.[/B] So he has two seasons left on his deal."

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/05/santana_mosss_bday_basheswaiti.html]Santana Moss's Charity Bashes/Waiting For Erasmus - Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[quote=SmootSmack;450361]I see what you're saying, but that's not entirely accurate. He tore his knee up in 1990 (his rookie year) and missed that season. He played half a season in 1991 and then a full season in 1992. But then he missed all of 1993 following another torn ACL, and then played a full season in 1994.

So two out of three years before the Redskins got him.[/quote]

Good points. I guess the difference is Terry Allen proved he had fully recovered before we got him. But we're not risking anything since this move won't cost us a think if he doesn't make the team. And I don't think he will.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

ya know...we could put him on injured reserve at the beginining of the year if need be.
We wouldn't lose our 7th....but would we have to pay him?
He'd be under contract....then we could sign him to a minor 3 year contract with injury stipulations all over it.

Anyone know if you get paid per game on injured reserve?
Perhaps they are considering paying this guy his 1 mil, for the potential to lock him up long term

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

I really think this pick up could be crucial to the skins. this guy obvioiusly has the talent if you ever got a chance to see him at wisconsin. some guys take a few years to develop and get comfortable in the nfl. not to mention some bad luck with injuries doesnt help the process but i really think this guy could be a big help and who knows maybe even start on the other side of carter in a year or two bc he is only 25

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;450359]Yeah he's a long shot but at the same time coming back from multiple knee injuries isn't the kiss of death that it used to be.[/QUOTE]


I just meant long shot in being able to make the Redskin active squad and being a contributing player in 2008-2009 season.
I think the FO will end up putting him on injured reserve and let him rehab his knee all the way before letting him in a regular season game and re-injuring himself. The Vikings brought him back too soon that is why he injured himself.
Regarding the knee, I realize the advancements in knee repair has come a long way, but he has played very little in two years. We can not expect him to rehab his knee and be the same level of player he was coming out of Wisconsin. He has missed a lot playing time and experience. Plus the knee never comes back to what it was before a re-constructive surgery, much less two.
I hope this guys becomes the next great DE.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

Or he may end up on PUP list for 8 regular season games, which during that time would free up a roster spot during recovery.
You only get one of these slots though....so Carlos Rodgers better heal up fast!

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[quote=SmootSmack;450369]From JLC and Redskins Insider:

"Also, I screwed something up yesterday and, like a moron, forgot what year it was (seriously) when looking at Erasmus James's contract. Indeed he does have a $1 million salary left on his contract ... but that's in 2009. [B]In 2008 he will earn $695,000 if he makes the Redskins.[/B] So he has two seasons left on his deal."

[URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/05/santana_mosss_bday_basheswaiti.html"]Santana Moss's Charity Bashes/Waiting For Erasmus - Redskins Insider[/URL][/quote]That being said it's a good deal. The team has blown way more cash up front and draft picks to boot. We're still not exactly desperate at the DE spot. Are we still sulking over not drafting Calais Campbell?

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;450373]I really think this pick up could be crucial to the skins. this guy obvioiusly has the talent if you ever got a chance to see him at wisconsin. some guys take a few years to develop and get comfortable in the nfl. not to mention some bad luck with injuries doesnt help the process but i really think this guy could be a big help and who knows maybe even start on the other side of carter in a year or two bc he is only 25[/quote]

The one thing we got going for him on the durability front is that here in Washington he'll be part of a rotation. So instead of having to take 60 or so snaps per game, he might be limited to just 20, max. However as far as the pickup being crucial, I wouldn't say that, it's of a relitively good size piece of the puzzle, but by no means a big piece.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

I thought he is supposed to take his physical today. Anybody have the results on that?

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;450389]I thought he is supposed to take his physical today. Anybody have the results on that?[/quote]


[B]Posted at 2:09 PM ET, 05/28/2008[/B]

[B]Santana Moss's Charity Bashes/Waiting For Erasmus[/B]

[FONT=Times New Roman,times,serif]Erasmus James, the Skins new DE acquisition, has yet to take his physical. Would be shocked if he doesn't pass it, even though he failed Minnesota's with his left ACL problems, and will update you on that info when I get it. Also, I screwed something up yesterday and, like a moron, forgot what year it was (seriously) when looking at Erasmus James's contract. Indeed he does have a $1 million salary left on his contract ... but that's in 2009. In 2008 he will earn $695,000 if he makes the Redskins. So he has two seasons left on his deal.
[/FONT]

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

Not a fan of this move at all...but I will think positive and HOPE that he turns out to be a steal.

Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James
 

Guy's we only gave up a 7th round pick for the guy I think it's worth the gamble...And having his old college line coach John Palermo only makes me feel confident he will contribute..Who knows him better?