Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=HogHeaven;472824]All the more reason to know the offense and get rid of the ball. The first play of the damn game should've been an incomplete pass out of bounds. Chuck it, don't hold it for a sack.[/quote]That was 100% on Campbell, but if we are going to note that, we should point out that the pass rushing demons on the DL did not sack Campbell the rest of the game, which shows that JC improved, because the pass blocking did struggle all night.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

New poster here, just stumbled on a link to this forum. If you give up on JC now, you might as well cut him. Holding the ball too long, POOR clock management, etc, etc. It's going to take more than one game for me to put him on the bench. Bring in Colt? There goes the season.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;472828]That was 100% on Campbell, but if we are going to note that, we should point out that the pass rushing demons on the DL did not sack Campbell the rest of the game, which shows that JC improved, because the pass blocking did struggle all night.[/quote]

Agreed, the game was just a forgettable one, I HOPE. Wash it and move on. Saints next, no rest for the secondary. At least we've got them at home.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Show me a QB who didn't suck at first in the WCO. Brett Favre was a turnover machine at first. I don't expect Campbell to look smooth in the offense until next season. He has to trust that his 2nd and 3rd reads will be there, which was the problem on the first play. For him to become a great QB, we have to be willing to suffer through Campbell's growing pains.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I dont give up on jason..not yet...i love colt...but i think the flaws are coaching ones right now.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=HogHeaven;472824]All the more reason to know the offense and get rid of the ball. The first play of the damn game should've been an incomplete pass out of bounds. Chuck it, don't hold it for a sack.[/quote]

I could be wrong but I think JC was inside the tackle box on that play so he couldn't have thrown it away without getting a penalty.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;472838]I could be wrong but I think JC was inside the tackle box on that play so he couldn't have thrown it away without getting a penalty.[/quote]

Yep and as he and Zorn said after the game, that sack was 100% on him, he rolled into it when he should have stayed in the pocket.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Paintrain;472791]One more thought on Campbell, for his first 4 years he was taught by Gibbs to be cautious, cautious, cautious and don't take chances to turn the ball over. What we've heard from Zorn is that JC has to trust himself and cut the ball loose. He's got to overcome 4 years of one way of thinking in 6 months. It's going to take time to not only get comfortable in the WCO but also take time trusting himself to take the chances that he was coached against taking before.

After the 4th down checkdown to Betts at the end of the game, you can see Zorn telling him 'I don't care, you have to throw it.' On the replay you can see that he was trying to get it to Randle-El who was somewhat covered but was beyond the first down sticks. Basically he's got to give his WR a chance to make a play in that situation, but his 'instincts' have been taught for him not to throw that ball. One thing about WCO QB, they have good stats, but also can have some high INT numbers. He's got to get over the fear of the turnover with the expectation that more good will come than harm.[/quote]

Very well said.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I thought Campbell improved (realized he had nowhere to go but up really) quite a bit in the second half. We would singing a different tune I think if the WRs had converted some of those 3rd down completions.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I gave up on Campbell being an elite QB during the Bears game last year. He just doesn't have what it takes. The transformation in the offence when Collins came in confirmed that.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

collins ONLY played well because saunders called the plays....and it was a system collins has been in since wwii....if you stuck collins in this system we wouldnt have even posted a td...so all you collins lovers and campbell haters get it out of your system and face the fact that an aging collins would not come in and lead this team to the superbowl..neither would colt.
What dissapoints me about jason..is that we have had since feb to learn and nurture him. It was apparent to see everyones frustration....did you see portis telling zonr what he was doing wasnt working n the sideline? That to me shows that these players are like...umm ok..this is lame...not working

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;472579]Between politics and Brunell banter, I think I'm gonna lose my mind.

Where's Ramsey when you need him? (Fight fire with fire right? :))[/quote]

Seriously, what the fuck has this board become? This thread didn't start terribly, however, it somehow turns into Jason Campbell being called a bitch and people assigning political affiliations who are actually making decent points. STFU with your reactionary threads! This is quite possibly the worst thread I've ever seen on this site and it's got nothing to do with the idea behind the thread, just the manner in which it's being discussed.

A little advice to Matty: Just take knowledgeable out of the banner and make it a political site since that's the only thing you all talk about here anymore anyway.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Beemnseven;472515]Here's the question you have to ask:

Are Campbell's problems related to learning a new offense, or is he [B]regressing in key facets of game play[/B] that would show up in any offensive scheme? According to the sideline reporter from NBC tonight (can't think of her name), Zorn said Campbell "has to read the defense." This is Campbell's fourth season in the league and Zorn has to remind him to do that?

It doesn't help that the same group of offensive linemen from last season apparently have all forgotten how to pass block.[/quote]

Thats what really has me scratching my head. Since his first year he still doesnt know how to read a defense, not stare down his primary receiver, still cant check down to any other receiver and generally doesnt make quick decisions getting guys the ball in stride the second they are open. Its alot to ask but a quality starting NFL quarterback needs to have this down pat.

Now throw in the WCO where a qb needs to read a D and make quick decisions and we are forcing a round peg into a square hole. I still want JC to excel and he has this year and next to step it up when his contract runs out.

go skins!!!

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Zorn is to blame for this game followed by the offensive line. What a pathetic display. I didn't like JC's play but then again when the play calling is shit you produce shit.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

seriously...lets give campbell a game where he has time and the run/pass ratio gives him a chance to win the game and play like hes capable before we all decide to burn him to a cross and send him to be romos backup. He is only doing what his coach told him to do.
Dont hate

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=saden1;472879]Zorn is to blame for this game followed by the offensive line. What a pathetic display. I didn't like JC's play but then again when the play calling is shit you produce shit.[/quote]

Do you think Zorn is taking on too much this early on his head coaching career as not only head coach, but also offensive coordinator and QB coach?

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

i said it before...he needs to stop coaching the qbs and start coaching a team

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;472887]i said it before...he needs to stop coaching the qbs and start coaching a team[/quote]

With the way JC looked he might want to spend MORE time with him.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=over the mountain;472876]Thats what really has me scratching my head. [b]Since his first year he still doesnt know how to read a defense, not stare down his primary receiver, still cant check down to any other receiver and generally doesnt make quick decisions getting guys the ball in stride the second they are open. Its alot to ask but a quality starting NFL quarterback needs to have this down pat. [/b]

Now throw in the WCO where a qb needs to read a D and make quick decisions and we are forcing a round peg into a square hole. I still want JC to excel and he has this year and next to step it up when his contract runs out.

go skins!!![/quote]

I don't want to come across as a JC apologist, but a big part of those things (reading defense, not staring down receivers, checking down, making quick decisions) have to do with comfort in the offense. As last season progressed, we saw less and less of that as he grew comfortable in Saunders system. He TRUSTED that people would be where they were supposed to be so he didn't have to stare them down. You don't hear the criticisms from knowledgeable football analysts (Jaws, Aikman) saying Campbell doesn't read defenses well, that's a fan thing. They've all said he needs to be more comfortable and process things faster, AS DO ALL YOUNG QB. He's made fewer than 25 starts, look at his progression vs. others at a similar stage and the sky isn't falling as quickly as you think.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;472881]seriously...lets give campbell a game where he has time and the run/pass ratio gives him a chance to win the game and play like hes capable before we all decide to burn him to a cross and send him to be romos backup. He is only doing what his coach told him to do.
Dont hate[/quote]

Oh the irony!

A user named doughtydoubter appealing for folks not to give up on Campbell.


:nono:

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Hey just because i dont like doughty doesnt mean i can support other people. my name on here used to be uhohjimoh

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;472882]Do you think Zorn is taking on too much this early on his head coaching career as not only head coach, but also offensive coordinator and QB coach?[/quote]

I think you can multi-task and he really has nothing to do with the defensive side so his only job is to coach the offense as a unit and the QBs. The problem is he doesn't seem to know what he's doing. Cooley was hardly used and I'm think Cooley and Portis are the guy he would go to early and often.

The thing that really helped me lose confidence in him was clock management down two scores. Calling run plays and taking their time with 4 minuses left?

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=davy;472897]Oh the irony!

A user named doughtydoubter appealing for folks not to give up on Campbell.
We did spend , 2 1st's , a 2nd and a 4th for Doughty ,, he should dominate ,,,,,, oh Thats what we gave up for JC ...... we better bring in some fresh blood on our O-DL's next year ,,,, they are not getting any younger .

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Paintrain;472889]I don't want to come across as a JC apologist, but a big part of those things (reading defense, not staring down receivers, checking down, making quick decisions) have to do with comfort in the offense. As last season progressed, we saw less and less of that as he grew comfortable in Saunders system. He TRUSTED that people would be where they were supposed to be so he didn't have to stare them down. You don't hear the criticisms from knowledgeable football analysts (Jaws, Aikman) saying Campbell doesn't read defenses well, that's a fan thing. They've all said he needs to be more comfortable and process things faster, AS DO ALL YOUNG QB. He's made fewer than 25 starts, look at his progression vs. others at a similar stage and the sky isn't falling as quickly as you think.[/quote]

Yeah i hear ya and im not saying the sky is falling; just saying in my fan opinion i dont see campbell exhibiting the necessary skills a quarterback needs to excel. My opinion isnt based on 1 game but from what ive seen from him since hes been here. Campbell is a good qb but until it starts to click in his head and he starts processing things faster (aka read a D pre-snap and make quick decisions) he wont be great and in this league you need a great qb to be a real threat.

Now if we didnt have a great core on D i would be running right next to chicken little!!

go skins!!!!

(ps i would be very disappointed if JC doesnt get to start the next 2 years)

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Both lines sucked. Period.

Rhythm is invaluable for a QB and an offense. We couldn't pass protect for shit, and as a result we never got into a rhythm.

As for defense, our line was owned by the Giants. On top of that, we couldn't tackle that son of a bitch Jacobs -- dude's way too big and heavy for our small defense.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=saden1;472901]I think you can multi-task and he really has nothing to do with the defensive side so his only job is to coach the offense as a unit and the QBs. The problem is he doesn't seem to know what he's doing. Cooley was hardly used and I'm think Cooley and Portis are the guy he would go to early and often.

The thing that really helped me lose confidence in him was clock management down two scores. Calling run plays and taking their time with 4 minuses left?[/quote]

According to Zorn, he wanted to use Cooley more but got hampered by false starts. The clock management issues were certainly disconcerting. That needs to be improved. On the bright side, no wasted time outs.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;472900]Hey just because i dont like doughty doesnt mean i can support other people. my name on here used to be uhohjimoh[/quote]

Why did you change it? Better said, why did you add a second account?

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;472900]Hey just because i dont like doughty doesnt mean i can support other people. my name on here used to be uhohjimoh[/quote]

Why did you create a new account? Just to change your name? I guess you haven't read the site guidelines because that's an offense that can get you booted.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

JC is our new PR (patrick ramsey). "give him a chance", "he's young", "give him another year". I want JC to succeed just as much as everyone else but i don't see it happening just like ramsey.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I tried to read all of these posts but have to much work to do, so forgive me if I repeat something from another post.

Mike Wise's article in today's wash post really puts JC's dilema in perspective. He's in his 4th year & at a time when he's expected to realize his potential & have that 'break out year.' On the other hand, he's not only in a new system again, he's got a rookie head coach that has never called plays in the nfl before.

I understand people that say he's paid to perfom no matter what. That's true, but it doesn't make it any easier for him to have so many changes. My view of it is, why put it all on JC, the O looked bad in several respects other than some solid running plays.

Last night's problems unfortunately look to go well beyond JC.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

it was forever ago and i couldnt remember my password and any email i had it on was loooong gone it was over 4years ago.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

What Jamie Dukes pointed out is the inept offensive play calling on third down conversions. There is no way Jim Zorn will be successful with the playcalling he defended when asked by Sonny Jergenson. Two plays were called for Cooley and we were off side on both of them." Two plays to Cooley? Where was Ladell Betts and Mike Sellers to offset the tempo of the running game? Zorn should allow the running game to develop and then have the receivers run beyond the first down marker to have more success. Jason Campbell has to erase eight seasons of different offensive coordinators and stop locking in on one receiver. This was the worst performance I have seen for a first time coach for the Redskins. Spurrier wasn't this bad.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=SouperMeister;472833]Show me a QB who didn't suck at first in the WCO. Brett Favre was a turnover machine at first. I don't expect Campbell to look smooth in the offense until next season. He has to trust that his 2nd and 3rd reads will be there, which was the problem on the first play. For him to become a great QB, we have to be willing to suffer through Campbell's growing pains.[/quote]

It's unfortunate that a QB such as JC has to undergoe another offensive playbook. But his inability to make the reads will improve after this game. He certainly tried to get the ball out on third down conversions. But the playcalling was not favorable. This is a learning tool for everyone and if Jim Zorn thought he was going to ride this West Coast offense in the NFC East without serious opposition he is seriously mistaken.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;472888]With the way JC looked he might want to spend MORE time with him.[/quote]

Or with Colt Brennan! Just kidding of course. But I think we'll find out over the next month that JC is not the QB of the future. I know it will suck, but that's my gut feeling. He took several steps backward after only being OK last year before his injuiry.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I think the numbers speak for themselves. Campbell got me 8.66 Yahoo fantasy points. Whereas Manning only had 8.27 points. So clearly Campbell is the better QB :)

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;472950]I think the numbers speak for themselves. Campbell got me 8.66 Yahoo fantasy points. Whereas Manning only had 8.27 points. So clearly Campbell is the better QB :)[/quote]


Well just so you know, I have Colt Brennan as my starting QB and he got 25.0675 pts by just sitting on the bench

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B]cpayne5[/B] [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/24987-jc-is-not-what-i-thought-post472513.html#post472513"][IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL]
[I]There's much more to it than the play of your QB. JC didn't look great tonight, [B]but name me someone who did who wasn't returning kicks[/B]. JC gets a pass in my book until it becomes obvious that he is the weakest link.[/I]

Portis, Fletcher, Brooks.


Burress, Jacobs, Tuck......

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=celts32;472514]JC didn't lose this game. We got whipped on both lines of scrimmage.[/quote]
We lost by nine points, if we got average qb play, we could have won.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=cpayne5;472581]So, with JC out from behind center, this team is a Super Bowl contender?[/quote]

How did you come up with that? Did I say we would be Super Bowl bound if JC was gone? Nope, I didn't. But do I think we will win games if he's gone? ... YES! ..

I give him until game 5 for Zorn to make the call to bench him (if he continues to do poorly).

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Jason may have been bad but I have not been satisfied with our WR coach....Stan "the man" Hixon. Since we picked him up our WR couldn't shake a cold. I'm not sure what he's teaching them to do but it's not good enough.

I will say the picture of Cerrato in the press box bug eyed was priceless. Then rubbing his forehead. lol. The only thing I could think of was you made your bed now lie in it. lol.