Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=70Chip;499117]Morality is not the same thing as sexuality. When people say "You can't legislate morality" what they really mean is "You shouldn't legislate sexuality". But even that is unavoidable. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Change should be organic. The people simply aren't ready. Homosexuals should concentrate on passing laws that don't seem like such a frontal assault on traditions that have been developed over many centuries. Revolutions that don't proceed from a strong popular consensus often have dangerous results. This is the difference between the American Revolution, for instance, and the one they had in France.[/quote]

While I understand the resistance of the mob I will not accept the notion that "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" has to be scheduled. Yes, you have to draw the line somewhere but where the line is drawn has to be based on sound rational and fairness. One should avoid drawing lines with [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Texas_redistricting"]Tom Delay's pencil[/URL].

It is desirable that change be organic but matters of importances shouldn't be sat on. Sometimes issues must be forced (i.e. revolution, civil rights, civil war, etc). You have to confront gay marrige head on instead of tip toeing around it. If you don't the masses will simply assume all is well which is not the case. I am sure when we look back at the gay marriage ban thirty years from now we will wonder how people could favor such blatant injustice.

The French Revolution (a first class clusterfuck) is far too complex to compare to any other revolution let alone the American Revolution. Interestingly one of the contributing factors to the demise of Louis XVI was his financial support of the American Revolution at the expense of his countrymen (bankrupted France).

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;499211] I am sure when we look back at the gay marriage ban thirty years from now we will wonder how people could favor such blatant injustice.

[/quote]


In thirty years, the cultural atmosphere is going to be so debased and rotten that no one will have the perspective to make the comparison. This has already happened in Europe. You have an entire continent of moral idiots completely unable to distinguish between good and evil or recognize when there is danger at their door.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=70Chip;499516]In thirty years, the cultural atmosphere is going to be so debased and rotten that no one will have the perspective to make the comparison. This has already happened in Europe. You have an entire continent of moral idiots completely unable to distinguish between good and evil or recognize when there is danger at their door.[/quote]

I don't know man, you're getting into Buster territory there and that's not a place you want to be. Just in case we happen to turn into that god forsaken continent called Europe I hope we still have places like Idaho, Utah, and Alaska left as a shining beacon of what was.

I am curious, what is it about Europe that disables its inhabitants from being able to distinguish good and evil and what is this danger do you speak of?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=70Chip;498828]I don't get the Quagmire reference.

Age of consent and legal age are largely the same thing, I think.

The tax angle is interesting.

The majority of men would not consider marrying another man either.[/quote]

Quagmire is a character from Family Guy who went competatively overboard during a golf game. [URL="http://video.aol.com/partner/hulu/family-guy-for-the-love-of-golf/cxd9BR6PwnlHyURxfB7GJjVWQCtH6su4"]Family Guy - For the Love of Golf - AOL Video[/URL]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Age of consent and legal age are two different ages. One allows you to vote, the other allows you to have consensual sex. In most states the ages are one and the same. In states like Georgia a 16 year old can consent to a 18 year old or something like that, and its ok. In my opinion the ages should both be the same, and they should remain 18. Going back to my original point, for the most part across this country, 18 is the Legal age for everything except alcohol, and with the exception of places like Georgia you cannot change one without the other. In other words the nation would never allow for 16 Year olds to vote, so the age for consensual sex will also remain in tact.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]There are a larger population of men who would marry another man than those who would perform beastiality. At least man on man (as much as it weirds me out) is a union of the same species. A man and a man, if legally permitted, could fill out a joint tax return, because they both could work in the human work force. An animal could not because their is a very defined difference between Animal Rights and Civil Rights.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=EternalEnigma21;496689]gay people should be able to be as miserable as the rest of us. (don't remember where I heard that but its true)[/quote]


LOL! Yeah maybe they won't be gay (happy) anymore if they got married.

Seriously does it realy matter who is f--ing who, it should only matter who you are f--ing.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;499140]

However, opponents of gay marriage hurt their cause when they advocate the passage of constitutional amendments, propositions, etc. to ban gay marriage. Such laws have brought the "gay marriage debate" to the forefront of national politics and suggest that the issue is so important that legislators should spend time on it during wartime and a deep recession. Think about it, a few short years ago there was no debate over gay marriage outside of academia. Now, it's all over the news and people like us are giving it serious thought.

[/quote]

I don't buy this. You are saying that no one ever thought of supporting gay marriage until someone opposed it first. This is dubious. And don't discount the influence of academia. I bet I could get from Harvard Yard to the Massachussets Supreme Court in less than par. If not physically, then certainly intellectually.

Our government is based on compromise. I am willing to extend all the legal rights of marriage to homosexuals. Since homosexuals are not really under seige in any serious way, is it too much too ask that I and likeminded folk be allowed the single, harmless concession of pretending that the institutions we hold dear will not be thrown under the bus? It is this way with all these issues. The courts leave traditionalists with nothing to hang their hat on, and then the left accuses them of radicalism if they dissent.

I also wouldn't object if the government simply ceased to recognize marriage completely and it became a purely religous designation. Treat everyone as an individual in the eyes of the law. Homosexuals would have no trouble finding Unitarians, etc. to "marry" them and traditionalists wouldn't be required to sanction something they abhor through public institutions. I've never been a big fan of the various benefits that married couples get anyways.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=70Chip;499682]Our government is based on compromise. [B] I am willing to extend all the legal rights of marriage to homosexuals. [/B]Since homosexuals are not really under seige in any serious way, is it too much too ask that I and likeminded folk be allowed the single, harmless concession of pretending that the institutions we hold dear will not be thrown under the bus? It is this way with all these issues. The courts leave traditionalists with nothing to hang their hat on, and then the left accuses them of radicalism if they dissent. [/quote]

In addition to legitimizing unions between man/man and woman/woman, recognizing that "marriage" includes same-sex couples is a shortcut to getting those legal rights. Without that, you would have to enact "separate but equal" laws in every single state. I am not a fan of that.

[quote=70Chip;499682]I also wouldn't object if the government simply ceased to recognize marriage completely and it became a purely religous designation. Treat everyone as an individual in the eyes of the law. Homosexuals would have no trouble finding Unitarians, etc. to "marry" them and traditionalists wouldn't be required to sanction something they abhor through public institutions. I've never been a big fan of the various benefits that married couples get anyways.[/quote]

I think the transaction costs would be exorbitant, since, first, you have to overhall all laws relating to marital rights (e.g., taxes, adoption, joint ownership, etc.) and, second, you would have to have to come up with new ways to handle those situations (e.g., how many people could adopt a child?).

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Here's another argument against a gay marriage ban:

Right or wrong, the perception (and in some cases the reality) is that homosexuals tend to be more promiscuous than heterosexuals. So armed with that knowledge, why would we as a society try to prevent homosexuals from entering into a sacred, religious institution which promotes monogamy?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Beemnseven;499894]Here's another argument against a gay marriage ban:

Right or wrong, the perception (and in some cases the reality) is that homosexuals tend to be more promiscuous than heterosexuals. So armed with that knowledge, why would we as a society try to prevent homosexuals from entering into a sacred, religious institution which promotes monogamy?[/quote]
You win. That is the worst argument I think I have ever heard, for anything.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=onlydarksets;500004]You win. That is the worst argument I think I have ever heard, for anything.[/quote]
With the divorce rate in the US I would agree with you.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=onlydarksets;500004]You win. That is the worst argument I think I have ever heard, for anything.[/quote]

So refute it.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Beemnseven;500114]So refute it.[/quote]

I assume you are for banning heterosexual and very much atheist couples from getting married? What about heterosexuals in an open relationship? Cohabitating couples? God knows it's against doctrine to live with someone before you get married.

You're tethering in the brink of absurdity and in violation of so many fallacies it's difficult to list all of them. I would advice you against taking that line of argument, certainly when you are dealing with rational and intelligent people. Remember mon ami, we're playing chess not checkers. A greater emphasis in thinking is required.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Let me clarify my point since I apparently wasn't clear enough -- Many times, social and religious conservatives voice their disapproval of homosexuality because of the perception that they are too promiscuous, that they have a hand in spreading disease. If they truly believe this, then they should be for gay marriage since that will take at least [B][I]some[/I][/B] of the people they have such big a problem with and put them in a relationship which promotes the values of monogamy.

If this is such an absurd argument that is loaded with fallacies then by all means, post them and maybe I will be proven wrong.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I miss read your post, my bad. Please excuse my feeble brain, it works in mysterious ways at times.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;500222]I miss read your post, my bad. Please excuse my feeble brain, it works in mysterious ways at times.[/quote]

Ditto. The internets are a fickle master. I thought you were saying that the perception of promiscuity created a fact that could be the basis for an argument. I get what you are saying now.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Beemnseven;500220]Let me clarify my point since I apparently wasn't clear enough -- Many times, social and religious conservatives voice their disapproval of homosexuality because of the perception that they are too promiscuous, that they have a hand in spreading disease. If they truly believe this, then they should be for gay marriage since that will take at least [B][I]some[/I][/B] of the people they have such big a problem with and put them in a relationship which promotes the values of monogamy.

If this is such an absurd argument that is loaded with fallacies then by all means, post them and maybe I will be proven wrong.[/quote]

Beems, your take here assumes that there is some sort of logical and rational basis behind those that are against gay marriage. Let's cut to the chase and call it like it is. Religious wackos and ignorant homophobes are the problem, simple as that.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk72;500305]Beems, your take here assumes that there is some sort of logical and rational basis behind those that are against gay marriage. Let's cut to the chase and call it like it is. Religious wackos and ignorant homophobes are the problem, simple as that.[/quote]

I've repeatedly stated my opinions on this issue, in this thread. I've provided my rationale respectfully, while being insulted multiple times. Your post is just the latest example of anyone who holds a conservative point of view being the enemy. While this is a football fan site, the parking lot has always, to me, been its saving grace. When the football talk degrades to unbearable levels I still come back to what has routinely been intelligent and entertaining off topic discussion. Over the last 6 months I've noticed a sharp turn in the tone of discussion where those with left-leaning views are given time while the more conservative members are either shouted down or, by viewing the tone taken with others, encouraged not to post at all. So while I will miss many portions of this site, I cannot in good conscience continue to support something that to me is a shadow of what it once was. To be clear, this is my last post.

Matty, if at all possible, delete my account. If not, simply leave it dormant. Thank you and Hail to the Redskins.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Given time? Encouraged not to post at all? This asynchronous forum, you give yourself time and if someone doesn't agree with you move on. Apparently you're moving on and taking your ball with you too. I can't speak for the mods but this is all getting into the [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Cancel-Your-Own-Goddam-Subscription/dp/0465002420"]Cancel Your Own Goddam Subscription[/URL] territory.


Happy Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. I wish you the best in life. Bleeding Burgundy until the day I die. Hail to the Redksins!

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I've said this a few times, I lean conservative in many respects. And I know that puts me in the minority when it comes to the more active voices on this site. It's true the conservative voices are often dismissed and ridiculed on this site. Some deservedly so, like Buster. Others, such as FRPLG, should be heard and respected. But there's no denying the pervailing tone here is left-leaning. (though curiously not so much, when you actually ask people how they lean on specific issues). I probably wouldn't go so far as "encouraged not to post" That makes it sound like the mods are suggesting if they post they will be banned, or some such action would be taken against them. That's just not going to happen.

I consider myself religious, I believe in God, I pray, I'm not a wacko. I have nothing against gays. I know gays. Some of my best friends are gay (yeah I went there with that). And I think they should get benefits. I think it's ridiculous that say irish and offiss can truly love each other, move in together, spend 10 years together and should, God forbid, anything happen to one of them the other won't get the same benefits that say Gmanc and Dynamite Rave could get should they decide to elope after one night of drunken debauchery at the Bellagio. To me, it seem backwards.

But I think understand Beem's point and I think more than that, we shouldn't be so quick to always thrown in the word "Whacko" when talking about religion. If you're not religious and you don't believe in it that's fine, but I don't think there's a need to generalize.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Well said, SS.

This is a difficult issue to discuss, since the underpinning of the conservative argument is usually rooted in faith (i.e., homosexuality is "fundamentally" immoral). So, to attack the argument is usually to attack the faith, which does not tend to end well.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

THis thread has really taking a turn. I also think this thread is a great example of why not to attack a person personally but discuss the topic and just agree to disagree. I have voiced my thoughts before on the personal attacks on people rather its me, another poster, a politcal figure etc... why the need for the personal attacks? I personaly do not know enough on the subject to have a strong personal opinion either way so thats why I have stayed out of this.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Sorry I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion, and I've never discouraged anyone from doing the same. My comments on 'religious wackos and ignorant homophobes' was meant as a general statement (and I was not trying to say that everyone who is religious is a wacko), and not pertaining to anyone here specifically. So if anyone misconstrued that and took it personally, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I think the reality of Prop 8 is that it was actually done in by the media's desire to see Obama elected President. Here me out now. Normally the mainstream media would have done numerous stories on the referendum, all showing the homosexuals in the best possible light and the opponents as paranoid weirdos. Instead they mostly ignored it, only doing a few stories on the money aspect of the vote, very late in the race. Why would they do this? Beause the conventional wisdom in those circles is that John Kerry lost in part because several of these initiatives were on the ballot across the country. The media figured that if people made any sort of connection between Obama and Prop 8 it may hurt him in swing states like Virginia, Ohio etc. They may have even been told this explicitly by the Obama campaign. "We don't want to get tied into the prop 8 thing".

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=70Chip;500345]I think the reality of Prop 8 is that it was actually done in by the media's desire to see Obama elected President. Here me out now. Normally the mainstream media would have done numerous stories on the referendum, all showing the homosexuals in the best possible light and the opponents as paranoid weirdos. Instead they mostly ignored it, only doing a few stories on the money aspect of the vote, very late in the race. Why would they do this? Beause the conventional wisdom in those circles is that John Kerry lost in part because several of these initiatives were on the ballot across the country. The media figured that if people made any sort of connection between Obama and Prop 8 it may hurt him in swing states like Virginia, Ohio etc. They may have even been told this explicitly by the Obama campaign. "We don't want to get tied into the prop 8 thing".[/quote]

You are absolutely right. It got zero national coverage and Obama stayed away from the issue as if it was going to set him on fire if he didn't. It has been said though that most new voters that voted for Obama [URL="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/prop-8-myths.html"]voted against Prop 8[/URL].

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;500359]You are absolutely right. It got zero national coverage and Obama stayed away from the issue as if it was going to set him on fire if he didn't. It has been said though that most new voters that voted for Obama [URL="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/prop-8-myths.html"]voted against Prop 8[/URL].[/quote]


I'm glad we have found some commom ground.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I haven't read through the entire thread yet and someone may have already mentioned this already, but it's interesting to note that most ethnic groups were fairly split on the 8 vote. However, the African-American community voted 70-30 in favor of 8. The Obama push within the AA community ironically helped get Prop 8 passed in CA. There were actually predominantly black churches distributing Pro-8 pamphlets out to residents, displaying pics of ministers and Obama (seemingly tying the candidate with Prop 8).

The anti-8 protests have been extremely fierce, but seem to be misdirected. Most of the rallies are being held in anti-8 areas, such as West Hollywood (the predominantly gay area of LA) and West LA. It's kind of like they're preaching to the choir. No rallies have even stepped foot in many of the sections that overwhelmingly voted for 8, like East LA or South Central. The protesters are way more comfortable shouting outside of the Mormon Temple in liberal Century City (where most residents voted "No") instead of in front of the AME Church in Inglewood (where most voted "Yes").

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;500310]I've repeatedly stated my opinions on this issue, in this thread. [B]I've provided my rationale respectfully, while being insulted multiple times. Your post is just the latest example of anyone who holds a conservative point of view being the enemy.[/B] While this is a football fan site, the parking lot has always, to me, been its saving grace. When the football talk degrades to unbearable levels I still come back to what has routinely been intelligent and entertaining off topic discussion. [B]Over the last 6 months I've noticed a sharp turn in the tone of discussion where those with left-leaning views are given time while the more conservative members are either shouted down or, by viewing the tone taken with others, encouraged not to post at all.[/B] So while I will miss many portions of this site, I cannot in good conscience continue to support something that to me is a shadow of what it once was. To be clear, this is my last post.

Matty, if at all possible, delete my account. If not, simply leave it dormant. Thank you and Hail to the Redskins.[/quote]
Quoted for truth.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk72;500338]Sorry I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion, and I've never discouraged anyone from doing the same[B]. My comments on 'religious wackos and ignorant homophobes' was meant as a general statement [/B](and I was not trying to say that everyone who is religious is a wacko), and not pertaining to anyone here specifically. So if anyone misconstrued that and took it personally, I apologize for the misunderstanding.[/quote]

And I think that's exactly what that was, a general statement. I don't think he said, for example, "conservative/evangelical religious wackos", because if that's the case, I definitely know some liberal religious wackos (I grew up in a household full of them). There are always exceptions to the rule and to opinions.

I'm going to guess that if someone jumps on the offensive about the wackos/homophobe statement, they might fall into one of the two categories. Otherwise there's no reason to get your knickers in such a twist.

Plus there's no real reason to leave the board. Love for the Skins should trump everything, disagreements on sexual orientation, political parties, etc. But good luck BB.

Anyway, I digress...

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;498390]WTF do you think a ban on gay marriage does? Isn't the view point being pushed by proponents of the ban "gay marrige is not OK?"

Don't get it twisted homie this ban is a variation of Loving v. Virginia which is to say it a clear violation of the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment:[/quote]

To use the 14th amendment to defend gay marriage is laughable, but you libs always do that type of thing. You twist the constitution to fit your perverted view of America. I'm pretty sure the intent of the 14th amendment had 0 to do with anything about gay rights. In law one of the things you are supposed to determine is INTENT of the law. That's just basic law 101 type of stuff. Also, you libs use the 14th amendment to say if you are born here to an illegal alien you become a citizen. Yet another twisting of this amendment. Now if you want to go ahead and get another amendment into the constitution that says gay marriage is legal then you'd have an argument, but until then you have no valid argument. You can bring up your decisions like Loving v. Virginia all you want, but we know that there are a TON of decisions that are just plain wrong. Did you think the Dred Scott decision was a good one? Did you think Plessy v. Ferguson was a good one? Should we use those as precedent too?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717495]To use the 14th amendment to defend gay marriage is laughable, but you libs always do that type of thing. You twist the constitution to fit your perverted view of America. I'm pretty sure the intent of the 14th amendment had 0 to do with anything about gay rights. In law one of the things you are supposed to determine is INTENT of the law. That's just basic law 101 type of stuff. Also, you libs use the 14th amendment to say if you are born here to an illegal alien you become a citizen. Yet another twisting of this amendment. Now if you want to go ahead and get another amendment into the constitution that says gay marriage is legal then you'd have an argument, but until then you have no valid argument. You can bring up your decisions like Loving v. Virginia all you want, but we know that there are a TON of decisions that are just plain wrong. Did you think the Dred Scott decision was a good one? Did you think Plessy v. Ferguson was a good one? Should we use those as precedent too?[/quote]

We're not the ones trying to change the Constitution to fit our world views. Last time I checked it is you conservatives that are proposing consititional amendments because the Constitution doesn't allow you to win in the courts. Here's a quick list of amendments championed by conservatives as an addendum to our beloved part-time-sacred-document:
[LIST][*]The Flag Desecration Amendment[*]Balanced budget Amendment[*]Supermajority to raise taxes[*]“Parental rights” Amendment – the right of parents to “raise their children as they see fit, introduced last year by Jim DeMint and Peter Hoekstra.[*]Human life Amendment, banning abortion[*]The Federal Marriage Amendment, banning gay marriage[*]Believing that the DC Voting Rights Act was unconstitutional, Lisa Murkowski proposed an Amendment giving the District a single voting representative.[*]Last year, Jim DeMint introduced a term limits Amendment (3 terms in the House, 2 in the Senate).[*]Allowing state-endorsed prayer in public schools.[*]Scraping birth right citizenship from the 14th Amendment.[*]Scraping the 17th Amendment and the ability of voters to choose their own senators.[*]Repealing and "restoring" the 13th Amendment[/LIST]
The really sad part is that your representatives don't think you numskulls realize how difficult it is to change the Constitution so they toy with you. You have to change hearts and minds before you go after the Constitution. Don't get it twisted homie, you're the ones that don't like the Constitution. I forgive you though, it's your nature and you don't know any better.

BTW, bad decisions have been made in the past...there is no question about that...slowly but surely we rectified those decisions. And discrimination against the gays is no different...time is on our side cuz.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717495]To use the 14th amendment to defend gay marriage is laughable, but you libs always do that type of thing. You twist the constitution to fit your perverted view of America. I'm pretty sure the intent of the 14th amendment had 0 to do with anything about gay rights. In law one of the things you are supposed to determine is INTENT of the law. That's just basic law 101 type of stuff. Also, you libs use the 14th amendment to say if you are born here to an illegal alien you become a citizen. Yet another twisting of this amendment. Now if you want to go ahead and get another amendment into the constitution that says gay marriage is legal then you'd have an argument, but until then you have no valid argument. You can bring up your decisions like Loving v. Virginia all you want, but we know that there are a TON of decisions that are just plain wrong. Did you think the Dred Scott decision was a good one? Did you think Plessy v. Ferguson was a good one? Should we use those as precedent too?[/quote]

Just out of curiosity are you even a Redskins fan or did you find this thread on Google?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;717500]We're not the ones trying to change the Constitution to fit our world views. Last time I checked it is you conservatives that are proposing consititional amendments because the Constitution doesn't allow you to win in the courts. Here's a quick list of amendments championed by conservatives as an addendum to our beloved part-time-sacred-document:
[LIST][*]The Flag Desecration Amendment[*]Balanced budget Amendment[*]Supermajority to raise taxes[*]“Parental rights” Amendment – the right of parents to “raise their children as they see fit, introduced last year by Jim DeMint and Peter Hoekstra.[*]Human life Amendment, banning abortion[*]The Federal Marriage Amendment, banning gay marriage[*]Believing that the DC Voting Rights Act was unconstitutional, Lisa Murkowski proposed an Amendment giving the District a single voting representative.[*]Last year, Jim DeMint introduced a term limits Amendment (3 terms in the House, 2 in the Senate).[*]Allowing state-endorsed prayer in public schools.[*]Scraping birth right citizenship from the 14th Amendment.[*]Scraping the 17th Amendment and the ability of voters to choose their own senators.[*]Repealing and "restoring" the 13th Amendment[/LIST]
The really sad part is that your representatives don't think you numskulls realize how difficult it is to change the Constitution so they toy with you. You have to change hearts and minds before you go after the Constitution. Don't get it twisted homie, you're the ones that don't like the Constitution. I forgive you though, it's your nature and you don't know any better.[/quote]

Boy oh boy, you REALLY don't understand how the US is setup at all. Do you? Of course they are trying to add amendments. This is what you are supposed to do! What you are NOT supposed to do is take an amendment that CLEARLY has nothing to do with an issue and twist it into something to support your twisted views. If you want your views made into law then make an amendment. Speaking of winning hearts and minds, why don't you try doing that instead of hijacking the courts? I think every single vote on gay marriage in this country has been against gays getting married. You guys can't even get a state's people to see eye to eye with you. Not even in California, home of the gay capital of the US!

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;717502]Just out of curiosity are you even a Redskins fan or did you find this thread on Google?[/quote]

Hail to the Redskins!

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717505]Hail to the Redskins![/quote]

Lol, sorry. You're entitled to your views but a Prop 8 thread seems like an odd place to start on a place like this.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717504]Boy oh boy, you REALLY don't understand how the US is setup at all. Do you? Of course they are trying to add amendments. This is what you are supposed to do! What you are NOT supposed to do is take an amendment that CLEARLY has nothing to do with an issue and twist it into something to support your twisted views. If you want your views made into law then make an amendment. Speaking of winning hearts and minds, why don't you try doing that instead of hijacking the courts? I think every single vote on gay marriage in this country has been against gays getting married. You guys can't even get a state's people to see eye to eye with you. Not even in California, home of the gay capital of the US![/quote]

You're the one talking about how "[we] twist the constitution to fit [our] perverted view of America." We work within the Constitution....you should f'ing try it sometime instead of pretending the Constitution is explicit when you think it. We work within the framework because we realize passing a constitutional amendment to accommodate every little thing is futile and retarded.

And every state in the south passed jim crow laws but that doesn't make it right. You keep digging buddy, you might hit pay dirt and dig all the way to the 17th century someday.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;717507]Lol, sorry. You're entitled to your views but a Prop 8 thread seems like an odd place to start on a place like this.[/quote]

I know Saden1, personally. He directed me to this thread since we were discussing the judge's decision in SF today. That's why I started here.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717510]I know Saden1, personally. He directed me to this thread since we were discussing the judge's decision in SF today. That's why I started here.[/quote]

Ha ha, oh man thats rich. The last person I would expect you to know personally around here would be Saden. I guess opposites...crap I need a different word considering the topic of this thread. So are you the conservative answer to Saden around here, because I think there's a huge opening at resident conservative.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=TheLastDon;717510]I know Saden1, personally. He directed me to this thread since we were discussing the judge's decision in SF today. That's why I started here.[/quote]

What can I say? I called it two years ago.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;717511]Ha ha, oh man thats rich. The last person I would expect you to know personally around here would be Saden. I guess opposites...crap I need a different word considering the topic of this thread. So are you the conservative answer to Saden around here, because I think there's a huge opening at resident conservative.[/quote]

I would say I am the voice of common sense which is an exact opposite of Saden.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;717514]What can I say? I called it two years ago.[/quote]

Gee, big surprise when the case is before a gay judge in San Fran...lol. You really know how to predict things!