Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=freddyg12;536616]I think E.Brown is the real deal, smart guy & great athlete. I can't say the same about Johnson's smarts (don't know), but he's got the athletic upside. There's no way at this point that Johnson is off the board before Brown. There is a lot of negative scouting on MJ. If he's there in the 2nd & we have a pick it might be worth the risk. If he falls all the way to the 3rd, which I believe could happen, I think we'd have to take him.[/quote]

I know there are negative reports out there on MJ, I just don't see it from that tape (but I haven't watch full games). It kind of seems to me that the lack of production from him comes from a lack of talent around him (say, to collapse the pocket). I don't care what Kiper or Mayock say, I just don't see him dropping out of the 1st. He isn't Calais Campbell, he has way more physical tools. Someone will want to work with him and I wouldn't mind it being the Skins. He apparently ran a 4.61 at his Pro Day - as opposed to the 5.whatever that Campbell turned in last year) and when I look at the tape I see I guy with the size/explosiveness/power combination that NFL teams covet. I know you weren't comparing him to Campbell, I'm just comparing him to a guy at his position from last year that dropped and the classic components of a draft plummet are not there with Johnson. I'll be shocked if he falls out of the first and would bet big money that he doesn't make it to pick 40. Unless he is nailed for a DUI before draft day there is zero chance he makes it to the 3rd IMHO.

I do agree with you on Brown. He looks like the real deal. A Dwight Freeny type speed rusher (though I guess most are projecting him as a 3-4 OLB). I'd love to have him, I just would question his ability to fit with Blache's defense and the emphasis on run stopping. Johnson, on the other hand, has the perfect body type to do that.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;536600]The only film I could find on YouTube was a video that some guy had taken from his TV of about three plays that Matthews made this year. From those three plays he looked better than Cushing but, you know, rather limited sample size. I think I'd probably take Rey ahead of him.[/quote]

Yeah, I haven't seen a lot of videos of Clay Matthews - but I do know that he's not 1st round talent. I would possibly consider him in the 3rd round maybe - if there wasn't anyone there better in any other spots of need/impact. Seeing a little bit of the video with Matthews - he seems more of a situational type player in a given role. He works best at pass/run blitzing - which to me, is good but something that you would want as a bonus from a linebacker instead of being his standalone strength. But yeah, definitely not a 1st rounder IMO.

You know who definitely is going to be the steal of the draft is Percy Harvin. This guy is very underrated because he doesn't fit the defined positions of wr or rb very well - but he has football skills that are extraordinary. He would be a very good addition to an already solid offense. If you are a Reggie Bush fan, I think you might like Harvin - but Harvin is good and athletic in a different way (I may need to think about it and have to explain the difference later). But they are both very fluid offensive players with the ball in their hands and deceptively explosive. These two guys are just football players.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;536621]I know there are negative reports out there on MJ, I just don't see it from that tape (but I haven't watch full games). It kind of seems to me that the lack of production from him comes from a lack of talent around him (say, to collapse the pocket). I don't care what Kiper or Mayock say, I just don't see him dropping out of the 1st. He isn't Calais Campbell, he has way more physical tools. Someone will want to work with him and I wouldn't mind it being the Skins. He apparently ran a 4.61 at his Pro Day - as opposed to the 5.whatever that Campbell turned in last year) and when I look at the tape I see I guy with the size/explosiveness/power combination that NFL teams covet. I know you weren't comparing him to Campbell, I'm just comparing him to a guy at his position from last year that dropped and the classic components of a draft plummet are not there with Johnson. I'll be shocked if he falls out of the first and would bet big money that he doesn't make it to pick 40. Unless he is nailed for a DUI before draft day there is zero chance he makes it to the 3rd IMHO.

I do agree with you on Brown. He looks like the real deal. A Dwight Freeny type speed rusher (though I guess most are projecting him as a 3-4 OLB). I'd love to have him, I just would question his ability to fit with Blache's defense and the emphasis on run stopping. Johnson, on the other hand, has the perfect body type to do that.[/quote]

If I were to take a DE at 13 (but I wouldn't right now with what I've seen in this draft class), I would take Orakpo instead of Johnson. Orakpo may seem a little undersized at the position, but to me on video, it looks like Orakpo is stronger than Johnson rushing against o-linemen.

BTW, Orakpo is Nigerian for Warrior (got it from a featured TV segment) - and if orakpo becomes all-pro for the redskins, I will officially change my user name to orakpozpath.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=warriorzpath;536654]If I were to take a DE at 13 (but I wouldn't right now with what I've seen in this draft class), I would take Orakpo instead of Johnson. Orakpo may seem a little undersized at the position, but to me on video, it looks like Orakpo is stronger than Johnson rushing against o-linemen.

BTW, Orakpo is Nigerian for Warrior (got it from a featured TV segment) - and if orakpo becomes all-pro for the redskins, I will officially change my user name to orakpozpath.[/quote]

Sure, you'd take Orakpo over Johnson, but the chances are Orakpo goes in the top 10 and the Skins won't have a shot at him. And actually, if Orakpo were to slip to 13, I'd use it as leverage to move back on favorable terms.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=warriorzpath;536645]Yeah, I haven't seen a lot of videos of Clay Matthews - but I do know that he's not 1st round talent. I would possibly consider him in the 3rd round maybe - if there wasn't anyone there better in any other spots of need/impact. Seeing a little bit of the video with Matthews - he seems more of a situational type player in a given role. He works best at pass/run blitzing - which to me, is good but something that you would want as a bonus from a linebacker instead of being his standalone strength. But yeah, definitely not a 1st rounder IMO.

You know who definitely is going to be the steal of the draft is Percy Harvin. This guy is very underrated because he doesn't fit the defined positions of wr or rb very well - but he has football skills that are extraordinary. He would be a very good addition to an already solid offense. If you are a Reggie Bush fan, I think you might like Harvin - but Harvin is good and athletic in a different way (I may need to think about it and have to explain the difference later). But they are both very fluid offensive players with the ball in their hands and deceptively explosive. These two guys are just football players.[/quote]

How do you figure he's not a 1st rounder if you haven't really seen him play?

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

In his latest mock Pat Kirwan has the Skins taking Aaron Maybin to play the SAM. That is kind of an interesting name. I can't find any good game highlights on him, but watching his combine performance he looks like a fluid athlete. He played DE in college and has pass rush skills so he could help get after the QB either from the SAM or even by putting his hand on the ground as a situational pass rusher. If they did decide to go defense that could be someone to watch. I really am down on Cushing and think Brown and Orakpo will probably be gone. It is also possible that the top four tackles all go in the top 10.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536702]How do you figure he's not a 1st rounder if you haven't really seen him play?[/quote]

Good question. It's hard to evaluate Matthews because there's very little video available (at least to the avg fan). I'd have to go w/ Kiper et al and say Matthews is late 1st round talent. Honestly, i'd rather get Matthews late 1st than Cushing @ 13. But then in the latter half of the 1st there's guys like English, Laurinitus etc. Tough call.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;536710]In his latest mock Pat Kirwan has the Skins taking Aaron Maybin to play the SAM. That is kind of an interesting name. I can't find any good game highlights on him, but watching his combine performance he looks like a fluid athlete. He played DE in college and has pass rush skills so he could help get after the QB either from the SAM or even by putting his hand on the ground as a situational pass rusher. If they did decide to go defense that could be someone to watch. I really am down on Cushing and think Brown and Orakpo will probably be gone. It is also possible that the top four tackles all go in the top 10.[/quote]Maybin scares the living shit out of me because his statistical profile is basically equal to Devin Thomas: a poor first season, then a record-setting second season followed by darting to the NFL before regression to the mean can occur.

One thing that baseball and football scouts and statisticians all agree on is that a truly elite talent is a truly elite talent regardless of circumstantial evidence that suggests he'll fail. And there's no doubt Maybin is a perfect fit in our system as a 4-3 linebacker.

I had [URL="http://mvn.com/outsider/2009/03/nfl-top-10-outside-linebackers.html"]this[/URL] to say about him last weekend:

[quote][B]9. Aaron Maybin, Penn State
[/B]Maybin is an explosive player on film, but he's a player with a single pass rushing move, doesn't have the size to hold up as a down end in the NFL, and wasn't particularly impressive at all in Indy. On top of all of that, Maybin carries the dreaded one-year wonder tag as well, having posted more than 80% of his college production as a college sophomore, and then bolting for the NFL draft before he could develop that second move that pass rushers in the NFL require. Maybin is not a good prospect as either a 3-4 outside linebacker or a 4-3 end, but I actually like his skill set as an outside linebacker in the 4-3. Either way, you are taking a massive project, so Maybin is second day material.[/quote]Understandably, I wouldn't touch Maybin in the first round. There's not strong evidence that he's an NFL prospect. But if film truly doesn't lie, he could be just the player we are looking for.

The posterchild for high risk/high reward.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;536712]Maybin scares the living shit out of me because his statistical profile is basically equal to Devin Thomas: a poor first season, then a record-setting second season followed by darting to the NFL before regression to the mean can occur.

One thing that baseball and football scouts and statisticians all agree on is that a truly elite talent is a truly elite talent regardless of circumstantial evidence that suggests he'll fail. And there's no doubt Maybin is a perfect fit in our system as a 4-3 linebacker.

I had [URL="http://mvn.com/outsider/2009/03/nfl-top-10-outside-linebackers.html"]this[/URL] to say about him last weekend:

Understandably, I wouldn't touch Maybin in the first round. There's not strong evidence that he's an NFL prospect. But if film truly doesn't lie, he could be just the player we are looking for.

The posterchild for high risk/high reward.[/quote]

Thanks for info, I really know nothing about Maybin.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

Maybin seems to make more sense than Cushing at No. 13 though. If we swing at Maybin we might miss really, really hard, at it would be costly no doubt. But it would make more sense than watching Cushing struggle through injuries and McIntosh-type production for the better part of the next five years while our defense gradually declines.

The gradual decline of a defense built like ours is inevitable anyway. I'm just really hoping that we can get some pass rushers so we can take advantage of having Haynesworth's best years here in our defense. He's not going to get any better than he is right now, so his biggest impact to our defense is going to come this year. If we're not a top five defense this year, we're in lots of trouble (thanks, DHall contract!).

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=GTripp0012;536721]Maybin seems to make more sense than Cushing at No. 13 though. If we swing at Maybin we might miss really, really hard, at it would be costly no doubt. But it would make more sense than watching Cushing struggle through injuries and McIntosh-type production for the better part of the next five years while our defense gradually declines.

The gradual decline of a defense built like ours is inevitable anyway. I'm just really hoping that we can get some pass rushers so we can take advantage of having Haynesworth's best years here in our defense. He's not going to get any better than he is right now, so his biggest impact to our defense is going to come this year. If we're not a top five defense this year, we're in lots of trouble (thanks, DHall contract!).[/quote]

Hear u on the pass rush but I hope we can manufacture more of it w/ an upgrade at OLB and some creativity within our current players. Chris Wilson should get more opps coming off RDE for one thing. A SLB who can get after the passer would then yield a three prong attack then. I like your thinking on a 4-3, 3-4 tweener who can attack as a pass rusher.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536702]How do you figure he's not a 1st rounder if you haven't really seen him play?[/quote]

I have, but very little. What I also tried to do is watch C. Matthews's play in the Maualuga and Cushing videos. But from what I gather, he's not 1st round material. Disagree with it or not, because it's only my opinion - and only time will tell if i'm right.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;536687]Sure, you'd take Orakpo over Johnson, but the chances are Orakpo goes in the top 10 and the Skins won't have a shot at him. And actually, if Orakpo were to slip to 13, I'd use it as leverage to move back on favorable terms.[/quote]

But I wouldn't take Orakpo even if he were available. I wouldn't take any DE in this draft class at 13, from what i've seen.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

I don't know that any of the USC linebackers really stand out up above the others for me. I like them all, but not sure I like any of them at 13 (I guess Maualuga more than the other two)

What scares me about Maybin and Brown is I can't figure out if they're better as LBs or as DEs? In a 3-4, or a 4-3?

I think I still want Oher (unless by some miracle Curry or Monroe falls), if we stay at 13

But Tyson Jackson is slowly creeping up the board and he would be the perfect fit for this defense.

Still, we should draft an OL

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536736]I don't know that any of the USC linebackers really stand out up above the others for me. I like them all, but not sure I like any of them at 13 (I guess Maualuga more than the other two)

What scares me about Maybin and Brown is I can't figure out if they're better as LBs or as DEs? In a 3-4, or a 4-3?

I think I still want Oher (unless by some miracle Curry or Monroe falls), if we stay at 13

But Tyson Jackson is slowly creeping up the board and he would be the perfect fit for this defense.

Still, we should draft an OL[/quote]The one thing I really like about Jackson is that in a non-Blache defense in the post-Griffin era, he actually could solve the DT issue next to Haynesworth. He could get some nice pressure on the QB from that position. Jackson would be a nice long-term pick, a smarter pick than Maybin who fits our immediate needs well.

I think Maybin is a fit in only a system like ours that likes to send 5+ guys after the passer on most plays. He's going to have to be a 4-3 linebacker, or an inside/outside hybrid LB in the 3-4 (like Vrabel or Suggs) if he's got any shot in the NFL.

Brown is smallish, but I think he plays in any scheme. A 4-3 team could play him at end or at OLB and get production, and a 3-4 team could play him at any LB spot. He's gone in the top ten picks though.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=warriorzpath;536734]But I wouldn't take Orakpo even if he were available. I wouldn't take any DE in this draft class at 13, from what i've seen.[/quote]

What if we call Orakpo a LB, would you take him then at 13?

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=WaldSkins;538141]What if we call Orakpo a LB, would you take him then at 13?[/quote]

You can call him a LB, but what I see is a DE.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

we'd take orakpo to be a DE, but he won't be there.
maybin bulked up to look like an NFL DE and it slowed him way down, so i'd only look at him as a LB... unless you want a 240lb DE (and he's not dwight freeney).

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=That Guy;538199]we'd take orakpo to be a DE, but he won't be there.
maybin bulked up to look like an NFL DE and it slowed him way down, so i'd only look at him as a LB... unless you want a 240lb DE (and he's not dwight freeney).[/quote]

Well Orakpo said we talked to him about playing the SAM so...

Maybin slowed down from what?

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

I'm not endorsing it but, has anyone given any thought to the push we'd get up the middle if we drafted Peria Jerry to play next to Haynesworth? Just a thought.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;538203]Well Orakpo said we talked to him about playing the SAM so...

Maybin slowed down from what?[/quote]

his pre-bulked up weight. I believe he was only in the 240's while playing in college. at 249 he ran a 4.78, which isn't good on weight for a DE or speed for4-3 a OLB. I don't like his short track record either, but we'll see what happens with him in the NFL eventually.


how about this guy late?
[url=http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/lydon-murtha?id=81853]NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Lydon Murtha[/url]
[url=http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33889&draftyear=2009&genpos=OT]Lydon Murtha | Nebraska, OT : 2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile[/url]

hyper athletic low round OT (mainly due to a lot of injury induced missed games). he'll probably go higher than projected right now, but in the 5th or 6th, i'd take a chance there.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=That Guy;538206]his pre-bulked up weight. I believe he was only in the 240's while playing in college. at 249 he ran a 4.78, which isn't good on weight for a DE or speed for4-3 a OLB. I don't like his short track record either, but we'll see what happens with him in the NFL eventually.[/quote]

I think he was around 225 in college right?

Anyhow, at his Pro Day today he weighed in at 252 and ran a 4.59

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=53Fan;538204]I'm not endorsing it but, has anyone given any thought to the push we'd get up the middle if we drafted Peria Jerry to play next to Haynesworth? Just a thought.[/quote]

Yeah. From GTripp's worst case scenario thread w/ all the OT, DE talent and Rey off the board I thought a little about this. It would be a nice move IMO [I]if[/I] we got a 2nd round pick for Golsten or Monty... otherwise it's pretty serious overkill right man?

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;538208]I think he was around 225 in college right?

Anyhow, at his Pro Day today he weighed in at 252 and ran a 4.59[/quote]Just saying... (and I know that people generally don't disagree with this)

If we think that Smith is a risk at 13, Maybin takes that to another level entirely.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

Check out what Maybin has been up to. Dude has gained 25 pounds in like 7 weeks AND suddenly runs a 40 faster than he did at the combine. This reeks of HGH if you ask me. Look at those pics. That simply doesn't happen naturally in less than two months.

[url=http://blog.pennlive.com/bobflounders/2009/03/maybin_significantly_lowers_40.html]Maybin significantly improves 40 time at PSU Pro Day - Bob Flounders: On Penn State football - PennLive.com[/url]

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=The Goat;538210]Yeah. From GTripp's worst case scenario thread w/ all the OT, DE talent and Rey off the board I thought a little about this. It would be a nice move IMO [I]if[/I] we got a 2nd round pick for Golsten or Monty... [B]otherwise it's pretty serious overkill right man[/B]?[/quote]

[B]IF[/B] Monty steps up. Yeah. If he does'nt, not really. Jerry gets to the QB pretty well. It would be pretty hard to block them both. I don't care where the sacks come from, DE, LB, or DT. Just get 'em.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

I hope big Al takes Monty under his wing so the kid finally plays to his potential... Al's presence could pay dividends in so many ways.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=The Goat;538226]I hope big Al takes Monty under his wing so the kid finally plays to his potential... Al's presence could pay dividends in so many ways.[/quote]

I hope so man. Monty could be a hell of a player if he really applied himself.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=GMScud;538216]Check out what Maybin has been up to. Dude has gained 25 pounds in like 7 weeks AND suddenly runs a 40 faster than he did at the combine. This reeks of HGH if you ask me. Look at those pics. That simply doesn't happen naturally in less than two months.

[url=http://blog.pennlive.com/bobflounders/2009/03/maybin_significantly_lowers_40.html]Maybin significantly improves 40 time at PSU Pro Day - Bob Flounders: On Penn State football - PennLive.com[/url][/quote]

Damn. He's turned into Superman.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

I'd say Maybin's Pro Day has made him intriguing..at 13

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

Are we talking about Maybin as LDE or OLB in our system?

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=The Goat;538231]Are we talking about Maybin as LDE or OLB in our system?[/quote]

OLB I'm pretty sure.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

Well dudes the thing that concerns me about converting these college DEs into an OLB in our system is we have to idea whether they can cover anyone cuz they've never had to in college. I mean our system really requires a lot from our OLBs and it seems like a big assumption a guy like Maybin will make the transition successfully.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

I share your concern. What really concerns me about Maybin is that he had one big year at DE as a sophmore, comes out, all of a sudden he puts on about 22 pounds and gets faster, then get's projected into the first round as a OLB prospect. What the hell has this guy been eating? Sounds like an awful lot in a short amount of time.

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

[quote=The Goat;538235]Well dudes the thing that concerns me about converting these college DEs into an OLB in our system is we have to idea whether they can cover anyone cuz they've never had to in college. I mean our system really requires a lot from our OLBs and it seems like a big assumption a guy like Maybin will make the transition successfully.[/quote]This is why he's a bad investment at 13, because our current scheme will have him on the pass rush way more than average. You change the scheme, and then you have no idea if he needs to go to DE, or if he can even play DE or what. Can't put that much money into that guy.

Am I the only guy who is disturbed by his improvements over the last month? Which player do you think you are getting, the guy who played his entire career at 220-ish and ran in the 4.7, or the one that can run 4.5 and weigh 250 off a strict training regimen that he likely never will be on again. The first is a second round talent, but the latter option represents a top ten pick.

So, who are you getting really? The guy who sacked a bunch of QBs last year, or the no-name Redshirt Freshman from 2007?

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

Well, I've got it... my perfect draft day scenario for the B & G.

We trade back w/ the Lions getting their 20th overall and 3rd round pick. I'd like to think there's some hope for getting their 20th and 33rd overall, like if we package our 1st w/ one or even two of our later round picks. Personally I'd like this but doubt it could happen. Anyway here's what we get:

1st round: Oher or Rey-Rey if only one or the other is available. If both are available... I honestly can't choose and promise to love either with all my heart LOL.

3rd round picks: best center available and DE Sidbury

5th round: best FB/RB available. I'm going the opposite direction as the change-of-pace crowd, as I've argued before. Personally I think CP can still be the slashing homerun hitter he was in the past... he hasn't had that luxury w/ us for the most part but with 1) the upgraded line we should have by opening day 2) Betts and the bruising FB type we draft wearing the opposing LB corp down early on... I think Portis can be that guy (and I think he'll be more valuable to us in the long run as well). I see CP as a change-of-pace RB in the first half and then taking over more in the 2nd half of games.

6th round: best available WR we think could return punts

7th round: best available safety

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

1st rounder trade down with Detroit get larry English
3rd rounder get loadholt or other good OT lang from eastern Michigan is pretty good too
3rd rounder get brandon Williams DE Texas tech, or Lawrence sidbury,
5th rounder get joe Burnett CB/RS UCF
6th rounder a center or another OT
7th rounder the best OLB available or pat macaffee kicker WVU



FA's to pickup after draft
Both OLBs from Hawaii, Adam Leonard especially
Dan Kelly kicker from Hawaii and any other kickers
WRs like brandon Tate, Aaron Kelly, kevin ogletree, or jamarko simmons

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

So much for "If nothing changes come draft day..."

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

This are all positions we need SS...what's your mock draft?

Re: If Nothing Changes Come Draft Day, Who Would You Draft
 

Just rename the thread "who are you selecting at 13,80,150,186,243"