Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538215]Yeah, I'd say that's about right.

I'm sure he could handle RT, but my response would be "why?" That's just not where his true value is.[/quote]
I agree. Why play him away from where he excells? That's the same problem I would have with taking Rey-Rey to play OLB.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

If we take Mack @ 13 cuz all the OT, DE talent and Rey are off the board we still have to address RT in FA... probably an overpaid, high quality vet (preferably under 30) cut from another franchise. It would mean for one hell of an o-line and I just can't complain about that; however, we're left w/ some pretty serious questions defensively. I doubt there will ever be much LB talent available in FA this year... mainly because there isn't an abundance of LB talent in the draft for teams to replace their expensive vets. Sure we could take an OLB in the 3rd round but then we likely pass on Sidbury completely cuz he'll be gone by the time we're on the clock again... i'd hate to see us pass on that kid and obviously we're due for a talented upgrade at LDE anyway. My bottom line is the safer move in the doomsday scenario probably means taking Clay Matthews or maybe English. It's really no more of a stretch than taking Mack at 13 and at least we have a guy to fill an immediate need on defense at LB.

... like I said no matter what I think we end up w/ an upgrade at RT by start of OTAs, so we've upgraded 2 spots on the o-line this year. That's a blessing... a third upgrade would be the cherry on top but for me it can't supersede the issue at OLB.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=The Goat;538223]If we take Mack @ 13 cuz all the OT, DE talent and Rey are off the board we still have to address RT in FA... probably an overpaid, high quality vet (preferably under 30) cut from another franchise. It would mean for one hell of an o-line and I just can't complain about that; however, we're left w/ some pretty serious questions defensively. I doubt there will ever be much LB talent available in FA this year... mainly because there isn't an abundance of LB talent in the draft for teams to replace their expensive vets. Sure we could take an OLB in the 3rd round but then we likely pass on Sidbury completely cuz he'll be gone by the time we're on the clock again... i'd hate to see us pass on that kid and obviously we're due for a talented upgrade at LDE anyway. My bottom line is the safer move in the doomsday scenario probably means taking Clay Matthews or maybe English. It's really no more of a stretch than taking Mack at 13 and at least we have a guy to fill an immediate need on defense at LB.

... like I said no matter what I think we end up w/ an upgrade at RT by start of OTAs, so we've upgraded 2 spots on the o-line this year. That's a blessing... a third upgrade would be the cherry on top but for me it can't supersede the issue at OLB.[/quote]

Well damnit Goat, call Vinny and get Marcus back. :)

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=53Fan;538225]Well damnit Goat, call Vinny and get Marcus back. :)[/quote]

Oh man if we could get Marcus back that would put a lot of concerns to rest. My intuition is Marcus won't come back though even if we offered him a nice 2 year contract...

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=The Goat;538223]If we take Mack @ 13 cuz all the OT, DE talent and Rey are off the board we still have to address RT in FA... probably an overpaid, high quality vet (preferably under 30) cut from another franchise. It would mean for one hell of an o-line and I just can't complain about that; however, we're left w/ some pretty serious questions defensively. I doubt there will ever be much LB talent available in FA this year... mainly because there isn't an abundance of LB talent in the draft for teams to replace their expensive vets. Sure we could take an OLB in the 3rd round but then we likely pass on Sidbury completely cuz he'll be gone by the time we're on the clock again... i'd hate to see us pass on that kid and obviously we're due for a talented upgrade at LDE anyway. My bottom line is the safer move in the doomsday scenario probably means taking Clay Matthews or maybe English. It's really no more of a stretch than taking Mack at 13 and at least we have a guy to fill an immediate need on defense at LB.

... like I said no matter what I think we end up w/ an upgrade at RT by start of OTAs, so we've upgraded 2 spots on the o-line this year. That's a blessing... a third upgrade would be the cherry on top but for me it can't supersede the issue at OLB.[/quote]Well, the line would be significantly improved over last year, so Jansen/Heyer could battle it out and the winner would be the de-facto "weak-link" of the line, however, the overall product is still [U]significantly[/U] better.

We would have to find some sort of a backup LT though. Couldn't have a situation where both Heyer AND Jansen are on the field.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538232]Well, the line would be significantly improved over last year, so Jansen/Heyer could battle it out and the winner would be the de-facto "weak-link" of the line, however, the overall product is still [U]significantly[/U] better.

We would have to find some sort of a backup LT though. Couldn't have a situation where both Heyer AND Jansen are on the field.[/quote]

I think this is probably what I've been getting at. In no way do I think Mack is the only player who would improve our team. J. Smith, E. Monroe, M. Oher, A. Curry, R. Maualuga, T. Jackson, P. Jerry and others would be a big help and a tremendous upgrade to us. Our biggest problem was our o-line last year. By far. I just happen to think a player like Mack only comes around once in a great while. I also believe that Mack at center, even with Heyer or Jansen at RT, would benefit our line greater than having Rabach at center and an allpro at RT. We had no pocket last year. That came from pressure from the middle of the line. Remember all the "Why doesn't Zorn put in plays for J.C. to roll out"? complaints? We also could'nt run up the middle. How many times did we try to get short yardage and fail because we could'nt open any holes up the middle? If you can't stop pressure up the middle, most of the time you'll be running for your life. That's why Haynesworth was such a big deal to get. He brings pressure up the middle. I think Mack could help us more than just about any player out there. But by no means do I think he's the only one who could help our team. Hey I'm open to anyone who can help the Redskins. I just think Mack could change what this offense could do in a big way. Would he be my favorite player if he were on the Redskins? I doubt it. I'm a defense kind of guy. Linebackers in particular. Hence the 53Fan. But I can tell you I'd hate to play across from this big, aggressive SOB. And he's in the second level quite a bit. Hail Redskins!!!

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=53Fan;538242]I think this is probably what I've been getting at. In no way do I think Mack is the only player who would improve our team. J. Smith, E. Monroe, M. Oher, A. Curry, R. Maualuga, T. Jackson, P. Jerry and others would be a big help and a tremendous upgrade to us. Our biggest problem was our o-line last year. By far. I just happen to think a player like Mack only comes around once in a great while. I also believe that Mack at center, even with Heyer or Jansen at RT, would benefit our line greater than having Rabach at center and an allpro at RT. We had no pocket last year. That came from pressure from the middle of the line. Remember all the "Why doesn't Zorn put in plays for J.C. to roll out"? complaints? We also could'nt run up the middle. How many times did we try to get short yardage and fail because we could'nt open any holes up the middle? If you can't stop pressure up the middle, most of the time you'll be running for your life. That's why Haynesworth was such a big deal to get. He brings pressure up the middle. I think Mack could help us more than just about any player out there. But by no means do I think he's the only one who could help our team. Hey I'm open to anyone who can help the Redskins. I just think Mack could change what this offense could do in a big way. Would he be my favorite player if he were on the Redskins? I doubt it. I'm a defense kind of guy. Linebackers in particular. Hense the 53Fan. But I can tell you I'd hate to play across from this big, aggressive SOB. And he's in the second level quite a bit. Hail Redskins!!![/quote]

I'm sorry but I wouldn't put Mack in a category of the type of player that "only comes around once in a great while".

And I disagree that having Mack at center with Heyer/Jansen at RT is greater than having Rabach and an All-Pro at RT. First, Heyer/Jansen were the weak link out of all of starting offensive linemen, by far - and maybe the weak link from the entire team - that's a big negative at such a very important position, especially on the line. Their play (or lack of it) was a major reason why the redskins collapsed in the second half of the season. I couldn't say that about Rabach.

Second, there's a reason why Centers have a lower value than offensive tackles - tackles are expected and required to do more on a team than are centers. Hence the low grades for #1 centers than compared to #1 Right or Left tackles in [U][B]any[/B][/U] draft.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

Dude I'm not trying to convince you of anything. What category you put Mack in or I put Mack in, is just a matter of opinion and that's all it is. If you do your homework you'll see that many scouts think he is the best center to come out of the draft in years. There is a reason that Mack, a center, is being talked about as a first round pick. That's why I say a player like this only comes around once in a great while. Like Matt Birk, you don't find too many as good as he is at his position. I think you could say there was more than one weak link on this line last year. For THIS team I think Mack would be a bigger help. That's my opinion. Aren't you the same guy who said Mathews wasn't first round talent but had seen very little film of him? That's part of[B] player analysis[/B] you talked about in another thread. If you don't think Rabach and the middle of our line was part of the collapse last year...well I just don't know what to tell you. We'll just agree to disagree about Mack and how much he can help this team. [url=http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1655]Alex Mack Scouting Report - 2009 NFL Draft Prospect[/url]

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

Man people sure are loving Mack. I just wonder if he would even be on our radar at #13. I think alot of people are building themselves up for a big disappointment.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538250]Man people sure are loving Mack. I just wonder if he would even be on our radar at #13. I think alot of people are building themselves up for a big disappointment.[/quote]

Matty I would be as surprised as anyone if we actually took him. Fortunately there's a lot of good players who could help us out there.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

Center is generally considered the easiest position o-line right? I've no doubt Mack is a phenom but can he make the impact that say 1) and phenom LB can make 2) a phenom DT or DE can make for a team? Or think of it this way: is there a center in the league who's made the kind of impact for his team Ray Lewis, Urlacher, Peppers or big Al have all made for their respective teams? I think if there's a potential LB, DT, DE phenom available @ 13 (assuming the top OT talent is already off the board) it think the FO has to go w/ one of those options.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

Sorry, but I cannot see using a 1st round pick on a Center.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=Angry;538282]Sorry, but I cannot see using a 1st round pick on a Center.[/quote]

Mack and Unger are being projected as low first round picks. Given our needs at RT, DE, and LB, I agree with you. Hopefully we'll get lucky and one of the top Tackles or LBs fall to us.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=The Goat;538279][B]Center is generally considered the easiest position o-line right?[/B] I've no doubt Mack is a phenom but can he make the impact that say 1) and phenom LB can make 2) a phenom DT or DE can make for a team? Or think of it this way: is there a center in the league who's made the kind of impact for his team Ray Lewis, Urlacher, Peppers or big Al have all made for their respective teams? I think if there's a potential LB, DT, DE phenom available @ 13 (assuming the top OT talent is already off the board) it think the FO has to go w/ one of those options.[/quote]

Why do you figure that?

It's probably the hardest considering the center typically makes the line calls and needs to make pre-snap reads of the D.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538287]Why do you figure that?

It's probably the hardest considering the center typically makes the line calls and needs to make pre-snap reads of the D.[/quote]

I mean this is basically my opinion Matty however i read an ESPN article (Ross Tucker was the writer I think) that broke down the o-line by position, rating each spot by difficulty and importance etc. If memory serves he said center was the easiest to play and more or less requires the least talent to be successful. Personally I would have thought one of the guard positions is easiest. Both tackle positions are more difficult/important than center IMHO.

... I'll try to find a link to that article when I have time cuz I enjoyed reading it and thought it was pretty interesting.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

Skills wise maybe, but mentally you have to be pretty with it to play center.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

I'm going to change my pick to the newly sculptured Aaron Maybin..

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

I'm going to go with Rey, after seeing he's available @ 13, I love his motor, and aggressiveness..

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=Eknox;538302]I'm going to go with Rey, after seeing he's available @ 13, I love his motor, and aggressiveness..[/quote]

Re-read the original post

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;538304]Re-read the original post[/quote]

My bad, I'll stick with Maybin then..

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=53Fan;538249]Dude I'm not trying to convince you of anything. What category you put Mack in or I put Mack in, is just a matter of opinion and that's all it is. If you do your homework you'll see that many scouts think he is the best center to come out of the draft in years. There is a reason that Mack, a center, is being talked about as a first round pick. That's why I say a player like this only comes around once in a great while. Like Matt Birk, you don't find too many as good as he is at his position. I think you could say there was more than one weak link on this line last year. For THIS team I think Mack would be a bigger help. That's my opinion. Aren't you the same guy who said Mathews wasn't first round talent but had seen very little film of him? That's part of[B] player analysis[/B] you talked about in another thread. If you don't think Rabach and the middle of our line was part of the collapse last year...well I just don't know what to tell you. We'll just agree to disagree about Mack and how much he can help this team. [URL="http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1655"]Alex Mack Scouting Report - 2009 NFL Draft Prospect[/URL][/quote]


This discussion isn't about me against you or about me against Mack. I think Mack is also a great player, but there's no reason to ignore his weaknesses to build him up. And in the same way, you also cannot ignore the weaknesses on the redskins. The weakness for the redskins last year was the offensive unit, more specifically, the offensive line; and more specific than that, the right tackle spot. Rabach was the least of the redskins worries on the offensive line last season, considering the injuries and the play of both Heyer and Jansen.

And about Clay Matthews, I could be wrong about him (so-called experts are wrong all the time). But I've seen enough of him to know that this guy is one dimensional. If you want to have a discussion to support that he's a first rounder; that's fine, but if you want to argue with me about how much film i've watched of him - don't do it.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=warriorzpath;538329]This discussion isn't about me against you or about me against Mack. I think Mack is also a great player, but there's no reason to ignore his weaknesses to build him up. And in the same way, you also cannot ignore the weaknesses on the redskins. The weakness for the redskins last year was the offensive unit, more specifically, the offensive line; and more specific than that, the right tackle spot. Rabach was the least of the redskins worries on the offensive line last season, considering the injuries and the play of both Heyer and Jansen.[/quote]I can confidently say that you don't know what you are talking about, re: OL issues. We have a bunch of problems on the right side of the line and need the best and quickest solution that we can get, be that Mack or someone else.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538337]I can confidently say that you don't know what you are talking about, re: OL issues. We have a bunch of problems on the right side of the line and need the best and quickest solution that we can get, be that Mack or someone else.[/quote]

Whatever. I can confidently say you don't know jack.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=warriorzpath;538339]Whatever. I can confidently say you don't know jack.[/quote]Right, but my long posts here usually 1) have a point, and 2) usually rely on some reasoning, and not hearsay. I wish not to know jack about the hearsay that's out there.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

And plus you make reference to the right side of the line, but that's what I say is a weakness. I don't get what point you are making, Gtrip????

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=warriorzpath;538342]And plus you make reference to the right side of the line, but that's what I say is a weakness. I don't get what point you are making, Gtrip????[/quote]You say Rabach is the least of our worries, but that shows a misunderstanding of the real issue. He IS the worry. Jansen is clearly in decline, which you and I agree on, but it's normal, run-of-the-mill veteran decline. Like, he can still go out there and give us 16 games, but it's going to be a mediocre to below average 16. Randy Thomas is in the exact same boat, although at a position where he's less of a liability

Rabach is a vet who consistently makes rookie mistakes, getting Thomas and Jansen (and Kendall) in bad situations, and also can't handle his own assignments. If you fix that problem, it not only makes the right side look better, but turns the whole left back into a strength again.

Whether or not Alex Mack is the right guy for the job or even on the Skins' radar at all is debateable and I'm glad you took the alternate perspective to keep us Mack lovers from unbridled, wild man love and irrationality. But I maintain the Skins can't leave Rabach in there, and then act like they are serious about improving the OL. There's problems with age and decline, which need to be addressed, and then theres the fact that neither Rabach or Geisinger appers to be an NFL quality center, which is obviously a bigger issue.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

Or, you can give me your idea of a great offensive line (like, a real example), and I'll give you a player on it who is comparable to Jansen for us, proving that having Jansen in the starting lineup shouldn't prevent us from having a great line otherwise.

(Which is different than saying "We shouldn't get a franchise tackle if we have the chance." We obviously should).

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538345]

Rabach is a vet who consistently makes rookie mistakes, getting Thomas and Jansen (and Kendall) in bad situations, and also can't handle his own assignments. If you fix that problem, it not only makes the right side look better, but turns the whole left back into a strength again.

[/quote]

My question is, how does the front office/coaching staff not see this? All I read is how Rabach is safe, and "entrenched" at the center position. Seems like not only don't the Redskins think he's an issue, they actually think he's really good. So I ask you, what's up with that??

For the record, I agree with your assessment of Rabach,I just want to know why no one on the Redskins views him as a liability.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538345]You say Rabach is the least of our worries, but that shows a misunderstanding of the real issue. He IS the worry. Jansen is clearly in decline, which you and I agree on, but it's normal, run-of-the-mill veteran decline. Like, he can still go out there and give us 16 games, but it's going to be a mediocre to below average 16. Randy Thomas is in the exact same boat, although at a position where he's less of a liability

Rabach is a vet who consistently makes rookie mistakes, getting Thomas and Jansen (and Kendall) in bad situations, and also can't handle his own assignments. If you fix that problem, it not only makes the right side look better, but turns the whole left back into a strength again.

Whether or not Alex Mack is the right guy for the job or even on the Skins' radar at all is debateable and I'm glad you took the alternate perspective to keep us Mack lovers from unbridled, wild man love and irrationality. But I maintain the Skins can't leave Rabach in there, and then act like they are serious about improving the OL. There's problems with age and decline, which need to be addressed, and then theres the fact that neither Rabach or Geisinger appers to be an NFL quality center, which is obviously a bigger issue.[/quote]


Alright, at least there is a point to basically calling me a football idiot.

First of all, I say you deal with a problem position directly (in this case, RT) not by blaming the center for not helping. The right tackle spot was consistently an issue throughout the season for the redskins and that blame directly falls on both Heyer and Jansen.

Second of all, I am least worried about Rabach for the redskins as much as I am of all the other spots on the line, because of the play of the RT and because of injuries.

If you think that upgrading at Center, which I think Rabach is fine at - is the indirect solution to the problem on the right side of line - specifically at right tackle - then good luck with that logic.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

Both of you guys are correct just different players GT wants C adressed warriorzpath wants RT. GT is right about Rabach making rookie mistakes and missing blocking assignments, and that cant happen because he's the main one in charge of the the line, and if he screws up the whole line screws up. Jansen is probably worse because many of our sacks came on his side, now whether we upgrade via FA (Shaffer) or the draft is another debate. We need to upgrade [B]both[/B] positions but you guys are right.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=warriorzpath;538348]Alright, at least there is a point to basically calling me a football idiot.

First of all, I say you deal with a problem position directly (in this case, RT) not by blaming the center for not helping. The right tackle spot was consistently an issue throughout the season for the redskins and that blame directly falls on both Heyer and Jansen.

Second of all, I am least worried about Rabach for the redskins as much as I am of all the other spots on the line, because of the play of the RT and because of injuries.

If you think that upgrading at Center, which I think Rabach is fine at - is the indirect solution to the problem on the right side of line - specifically at right tackle - then good luck with that logic.[/quote]First misunderstanding: I never called you an idiot, nor implied that, nor would I have any reason to think that.

You were telling 53, in no uncertain terms, why he was wrong, using assumptions I knew to be wrong. Given that, I feel that letting you know you don't understand the situation was fitting. It is, in no way, an attack on your football IQ, and I'm glad we were able to keep it from devolving into a pissing match.

But, still, dealing with [B]the[/B] problem directly means replacing the Center. There's another problem that is the right tackle, and another problem yet that is the right guard. A lesser problem is that the LT is now 31 and that's going to be an issue sometime in the near future. A final (least immediate) issue is that Dockery represents more of a transitional player from the old guard to the new guard than a long term solution.

The Center is the single biggest problem, and that, to me, is not all that debatable. I'm not suggesting something that isn't clearly and decisively evident on tape when I say Rabach absolutely cannot play. But, my big board also says that Mack is less of a solution than any of Oher, Monroe, or J. Smith. And that's because I view all those players as future LTs when Samuels moves on. That's the most critical position on the line.

The fact that I'd rather have Oher than Mack doesn't mean that I'm being inconsistent on Rabach, it just means that I see Oher as the start of the new guard, and a future LT. In the immediate, he would probably step in for Jansen at RT. That's a relatively small upgrade, especially if we still have communication issues, but he's eventually going to be the LT, so it's worth the price of the 13th pick.

If we thought Mack was the best available OL available, I don't think there's a defensible reason for passing on him. To me, taking best available OL is clearly a direct solution, but to each their own.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=vallin21;538354]Both of you guys are correct just different players GT wants C adressed warriorzpath wants RT. GT is right about Rabach making rookie mistakes and missing blocking assignments, and that cant happen because he's the main one in charge of the the line, and if he screws up the whole line screws up. Jansen is probably worse because many of our sacks came on his side, now whether we upgrade via FA (Shaffer) or the draft is another debate. We need to upgrade [B]both[/B] positions but you guys are right.[/quote]


That's true with the Center position (with decision-making and intelligence), if that's the case for a need to upgrade. But why replace a center that makes rookie mistakes with a rookie center (in this case, Mack, that is known more for being physical) where decision-making skills are important. It's a better scenario to pick up a center in FA and pick up one of the top 4 OT if available in the draft.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=warriorzpath;538356]That's true with the Center position (with decision-making and intelligence), if that's the case for a need to upgrade. But why replace a center that makes rookie mistakes with a rookie center (in this case, Mack, that is known more for being physical). It's a better scenario to pick up a center in FA and pick up one of the top 4 OT if available in the draft.[/quote]

Yeah I wouldn't draft Mack but I would draft a C in the 3rd to replace Rabach later (maybe this year) because it needs to be adressed, but I think the biggest need is at RT and if we can get Oher at 13 and draft a C in the 3rd that might work, but it's to early for me to make draft predictions.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538355]First misunderstanding: I never called you an idiot, nor implied that, nor would I have any reason to think that.

You were telling 53, in no uncertain terms, why he was wrong, using assumptions I knew to be wrong. Given that, I feel that letting you know you don't understand the situation was fitting. It is, in no way, an attack on your football IQ, and I'm glad we were able to keep it from devolving into a pissing match.

But, still, dealing with [B]the[/B] problem directly means replacing the Center. There's another problem that is the right tackle, and another problem yet that is the right guard. A lesser problem is that the LT is now 31 and that's going to be an issue sometime in the near future. A final (least immediate) issue is that Dockery represents more of a transitional player from the old guard to the new guard than a long term solution.

The Center is the single biggest problem, and that, to me, is not all that debatable. I'm not suggesting something that isn't clearly and decisively evident on tape when I say Rabach absolutely cannot play. But, my big board also says that Mack is less of a solution than any of Oher, Monroe, or J. Smith. And that's because I view all those players as future LTs when Samuels moves on. That's the most critical position on the line.

The fact that I'd rather have Oher than Mack doesn't mean that I'm being inconsistent on Rabach, it just means that I see Oher as the start of the new guard, and a future LT. In the immediate, he would probably step in for Jansen at RT. That's a relatively small upgrade, especially if we still have communication issues, but he's eventually going to be the LT, so it's worth the price of the 13th pick.

If we thought Mack was the best available OL available, I don't think there's a defensible reason for passing on him. To me, taking best available OL is clearly a direct solution, but to each their own.[/quote]

I agree with you, if Rabach is a problem (from the surface, he looks fine), that he needs to be replaced. But I disagree with the assessment that the center spot is a bigger problem than right takle. I also don't think that any of the prospective centers would provide the type of help that would benefit the team and the offensive line as a whole. They would need to be super-intelligent from a football perspective and also have considerable experience to make quick and decisive adjustments. I don't think any centers fit this bill in the draft. It might be better to keep Rabach (since there might not be one good enough in the draft), just because of his experience in nfl situations, or pick one up in free agency.

I would take a different approach, best first-round grade offensive linemen in this priority/order: Tackle, Center (based on great decision-making skills), Guard. But only based on the fact that Rabach does not make good decisions.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=warriorzpath;538369]I would take a different approach, best first-round grade offensive linemen in this priority/order: Tackle, Center (based on great decision-making skills), Guard. But only based on the fact that Rabach does not make good decisions.[/quote]Accurately assessed.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=vallin21;538358]Yeah I wouldn't draft Mack but I would draft a C in the 3rd to replace Rabach later (maybe this year) because it needs to be adressed, but I think the biggest need is at RT and if we can get Oher at 13 and draft a C in the 3rd that might work, but it's to early for me to make draft predictions.[/quote]

That's a very good option. That way, we can prep Rabach's replacement for later.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=warriorzpath;538329]This discussion isn't about me against you or about me against Mack. I think Mack is also a great player, but there's no reason to ignore his weaknesses to build him up. And in the same way, you also cannot ignore the weaknesses on the redskins. The weakness for the redskins last year was the offensive unit, more specifically, the offensive line; and more specific than that, the right tackle spot. Rabach was the least of the redskins worries on the offensive line last season, considering the injuries and the play of both Heyer and Jansen.

And about Clay Matthews, I could be wrong about him (so-called experts are wrong all the time). But I've seen enough of him to know that this guy is one dimensional. If you want to have a discussion to support that he's a first rounder; that's fine, but[B] if you want to argue with me about how much film i've watched of him - don't do it[/B].[/quote]

Why? I would think how much you've seen of a player would be an important part of being able to intelligently discuss him.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=53Fan;538420]Why? I would think how much you've seen of a player would be an important part of being able to intelligently discuss him.[/quote]

Yeah, I've seen enough to go by. I'm interested ... what can you intelligently discuss about him?

Like Mack, he's the man, he's agressive and he has faults but can be explained away?

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

[quote=warriorzpath;538423]Yeah, I've seen enough to go by. I'm interested ... what can you intelligently discuss about him?

Like Mack, he's the man, he's agressive and he has faults but can be explained away?[/quote]

I don't know enough about him to really discuss him.

Re: I give you the first 12 picks, Give me your Redskins draft pick!
 

Aaron M. Penn st.