re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;554910]Microfracture is not considered major surgery. It's done on an out-patient basis and takes as little as 30 minutes to do.

[B]I think people are making a much bigger deal about this surgery than it really is.[/B][/quote]

I disagree. While the Microfracture surgical procedure [B]is[/B] minimally invasive, it is not a good sign if an athlete needs it.
I work for the Houston Rockets and there is serious concern that T-Mac will not make it back. Even if he makes it back he will not be the player he was before the surgery.
Microfracture surgery at the moment is controversial because the success rate is just about 75% in athletes. For every Jason Kidd (success) there is a Chris Webber (failed) that had to retire.
One of the problem with this procedure is it promotes the regeneration of fibrocartilage, not Hyaline cartilage. Fibrocartilage is not as good mechanically as the original hyaline cartilage which is much denser and is able to withstand the demands of everyday activities. Therefore there is a high incidence symptom (pain) returning to the joint with in a year or two.
Cartilage issues in joints for an athlete is a degenerative conditions that only gets worse, not better over time.
If this kid is having this much trouble in his knee and he has barely played, it most likely get worse when he plays more.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Defensewins;555031]I disagree. While the Microfracture surgical procedure [B]is[/B] minimally invasive, it is not a good sign if an athlete needs it.
I work for the Houston Rockets and there is serious concern that T-Mac will not make it back. Even if he makes it back he will not be the player he was before the surgery.
Microfracture surgery at the moment is controversial because the success rate is just about 75% in athletes. For every Jason Kidd (success) there is a Chris Webber (failed) that had to retire.
One of the problem with this procedure is it promotes the regeneration of fibrocartilage, not Hyaline cartilage. Fibrocartilage is not as good mechanically as the original hyaline cartilage which is much denser and is able to withstand the demands of everyday activities. Therefore there is a high incidence symptom (pain) returning to the joint with in a year or two.
Cartilage issues in joints for an athlete is a degenerative conditions that only gets worse, not better over time.
If this kid is having this much trouble in his knee and has barely played, it most likely get worse if he plays more.[/quote]

The Houston Rockets, eh? That's pretty cool.

Not to hijack this, but you tell your Rockets that they damn well better roll over and let the Lakers beat them in this series. The last two years I went against the grain and picked the Rockets to win it all only to see them fizzle out in the first round, pretty much guaranteeing me last place in our office pool. Doing well in sports pools are kind of a big deal around here. So while I got some props for having the balls to pick the Rockets, I mostly got laughs for picking the Rockets (twice!). Not this year, no! This year I went chalk and took the Lakers...and now they're down 1-0 to Houston? Ugh

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;555035]The Houston Rockets, eh? That's pretty cool.

Not to hijack this, but you tell your Rockets that they damn well better roll over and let the Lakers beat them in this series. The last two years I went against the grain and picked the Rockets to win it all only to see them fizzle out in the first round, pretty much guaranteeing me last place in our office pool. Doing well in sports pools are kind of a big deal around here. So while I got some props for having the balls to pick the Rockets, I mostly got laughs for picking the Rockets (twice!). Not this year, no! This year I went chalk and took the Lakers...and now they're down 1-0 to Houston? Ugh[/quote]

LOL!
Then I guess I feel better that you picked the Lakers this year.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;555000]What's his cap hit for next year?[/quote]

According to RI the hit would be 4.4MM in dead cap if they cut ARE after the 2009 season. Sounds good to me.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;555035]The Houston Rockets, eh? That's pretty cool.

Not to hijack this, but you tell your Rockets that they damn well better roll over and let the Lakers beat them in this series. The last two years I went against the grain and picked the Rockets to win it all only to see them fizzle out in the first round, pretty much guaranteeing me last place in our office pool. Doing well in sports pools are kind of a big deal around here. So while I got some props for having the balls to pick the Rockets, I mostly got laughs for picking the Rockets (twice!). Not this year, no! This year I went chalk and took the Lakers...and now they're down 1-0 to Houston? Ugh[/quote]

:offtopic:

LOL.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

Does anyone know if Roydell Williams plays ST, and has he return punts before? I hope Roydell or Kelley Washington can make the roster so we can phase out ARE and his over-inflated salary in the 2010 or whatever year his cap numbers/hits are the lowest.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Hamoskinz;555048]Does anyone know if Roydell Williams plays ST, and [B]has he return punts before?[/B] I hope Roydell or Kelley Washington can make the roster so we can phase out ARE and his over-inflated salary in the 2010 or whatever year his cap numbers/hits are the lowest.[/quote]

Personally I'd like to see Devin Thomas returning punts.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;555016]Just a FYI for the thread Devin Thomas was back at practice today.[/quote]

So his hamstring tweak wasn't life threatening? Whew, that's a relief.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Lotus;555070]Personally I'd like to see Devin Thomas returning punts.[/quote]

Him and or Deangelo Hall. If Randle-El is our starting punt returner, Zorn should be fired. There is absolutely no reason that Randle-El should return a punt next year. It is so annoying to watch him run 3 yards one way, 7 yards the other way and drop to the turf to avoid a hit.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;555038]According to RI the hit would be 4.4MM in dead cap if they cut ARE after the 2009 season. Sounds good to me.[/quote]

That doesn't quite jive with what we've got here, maybe one of our cap folks can comment further.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;555118]That doesn't quite jive with what we've got here, maybe one of our cap folks can comment further.[/quote]

I think the difference is that on the sheet there is a 6.5 signing bonus effective in '10. The cap sheet is correct assuming the team executes the bonus. RI classified it as an option bonus so that the team has until 8/31/10 to decide if they want to execute it. If they do, it becomes a signing bonus and the contract extends through '15. If they cut him after '09 they take 4.4MM in dead cap for '10. Or they can keep him for '10 at a salary of 1.95MM and he becomes a FA. My hope would be that Kelly and Thomas blow it up and they can just drop ARE outright but it might not be the worst thing to give ARE a contract year at 1.95MM since that is typically when players perform their best. Also, I think it is wishful thinking to count on Kelly beating out ARE.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Defensewins;555031]I disagree. While the Microfracture surgical procedure [B]is[/B] minimally invasive, it is not a good sign if an athlete needs it.
I work for the Houston Rockets and there is serious concern that T-Mac will not make it back. Even if he makes it back he will not be the player he was before the surgery.
Microfracture surgery at the moment is controversial because the success rate is just about 75% in athletes. For every Jason Kidd (success) there is a Chris Webber (failed) that had to retire.
One of the problem with this procedure is it promotes the regeneration of fibrocartilage, not Hyaline cartilage. Fibrocartilage is not as good mechanically as the original hyaline cartilage which is much denser and is able to withstand the demands of everyday activities. Therefore there is a high incidence symptom (pain) returning to the joint with in a year or two.
Cartilage issues in joints for an athlete is a degenerative conditions that only gets worse, not better over time.
If this kid is having this much trouble in his knee and he has barely played, it most likely get worse when he plays more.[/quote]

All I meant was this surgery is not the kiss of death some are making it out to be.

He's young, they didn't have to do the whole knee, so hopefully his chances of a full recovery are pretty high. We'll see.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;555012]Just check the cap sheets. Takes 2 seconds to basically tell if getting rid of a guy is realistic or not.[/quote]

The capsheets here are misleading. The cap hit is only 10M to cut ARE next year if the skins chose to give him an option bonus prior to the 2010 season. If they dont, he can be cut and the cap hit will only be about 4M. Andre Carter has the same clause in his contract. Both were re-worked this offseason.

the capsheets for both players here only reflect the contracts if the skins want them on the team next year. The skins may pick up carters bonus, but theres no way in hell they do the same for ARE. Unless he somehow becomes a great #2 receiver this year, he's definitely being cut after the season.

EDIT - I see this has already been discussed and explained. My bad.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

ummmm i am confused i read that next year is a uncapped year?

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=nimbh2;555360]ummmm i am confused i read that next year is a uncapped year?[/quote]

That's as of right now, assuming an argeement is not reached.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=jsarno;555362]That's as of right now, assuming an argeement is not reached.[/quote]

If an agreement is reached we are screwed...

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;555363]If an agreement is reached we are screwed...[/quote]

Nah, we will find a way out of it...we always do. Everyone, every year always says we are in cap trouble, yet we always wiggle out of it and thrive somehow.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

Something tells me the FO has a plan for an uncapped and capped year.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

I guess Anthony Mix isnt under consideration to help us out:

[url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/06/bucs-receiver-indicted/]ProFootballTalk.com - Bucs Receiver Indicted[/url]

[QUOTE]Well, it’s once again time to re-set the arrest meter to zero.
Per our friends at Pewter Report, Tampa receiver Anthony Mix has been indicted for having sex with a minor.
Mix allegedly had a relationship with a 15-year-old girl.
He is charged only with contributing to the delinquency of a minor, which is a misdemeanor. He avoided indictment on felony charges of second-degree rape and sodomy.
Mix faces up to a year in prison and a $500 fine.
“One thing led to another and they decided to meet up,” Lester Banfield of the Bay Minette police told FOX 10 in Mobile/Pensacola. “We believe he was aware of the age of the girl. She snuck out of her house, they met, they had sex in the vehicle while it was parked on the street.”
Mix signed with the Bucs earlier this year, after spending 2008 out of football. He previously played for the Giants and the Redskins.
The Buccaneers had no comment.
[/QUOTE]

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;555380]Something tells me the FO has a plan for an uncapped and capped year.[/quote]

I think they are hoping for an uncapped year so they can get rid of the dead weight (Jansen, Smoot, etcl) on the roster and not worry about the cap hits.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;555380]Something tells me the FO has a plan for an uncapped and capped year.[/quote]

That is what alot of these option clauses have accomplished, if next year is uncapped, then money flows, and cuts are made. If a new cap is established, I am sure alot of the option bonuses will be converted into prorated money. There was an interview way back where 3 different GMs said as much (one had to be Vinny!)

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;555165]All I meant was this surgery is not the kiss of death some are making it out to be.

He's young, they didn't have to do the whole knee, so hopefully his chances of a full recovery are pretty high. We'll see.[/quote]

I share your optimism, and I really think that healthy Malcolm Kelly could be a legit #1 for us at some point, but I just can't get past the fact that we ignored his pre-existing knee problems when we drafted him. Annoys the heck out of me.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=GMScud;555385]I share your optimism, and I really think that healthy Malcolm Kelly could be a legit #1 for us at some point, but I just can't get past the fact that we ignored his pre-existing knee problems when we drafted him. Annoys the heck out of me.[/quote]

I don't think they ignored his knee problems necessarily, they were well aware of what they were getting and the risks involved. It's just a case of risk vs. reward and they felt in the long run he will pay off. We'll see.

That said if he has another injury plagued year this year I'll be right there with you.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

K.Washington and Ravens agree to terms. [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4164793]Baltimore Ravens agree to contract with free-agent receiver Kelley Washington - ESPN[/url]

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

Williams was lookin good before he got hurt. Hopefully we can have a healthy wr corps this season and get to see what Thomas and Kelly can do.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

i admit i wanted us to get a WR in the 3rd of the last draft. I liked Iglesias but he went to Chi town.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;557227]i admit i wanted us to get a WR in the 3rd of the last draft. [B]I liked Iglesias but he went to Chi town[/B].[/quote]

I agree with Iglesias.

In college he seemed like your surehanded, all round tough receiver. I was hoping he could be a Redskin because I liked the way he played.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

Yeah big guy with good hands.. i couldnt believe we passed on him with the trouble we have had at the WR pos.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

Still wish we could have bit on Holt earlier in the year. Cut Thrash and ARE or see if we could have traded them. I like bringing in younger guys myself, but Holt is still a stud.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=GMScud;555385]I share your optimism, and I really think that healthy Malcolm Kelly could be a legit #1 for us at some point, but I just can't get past the fact that we ignored his pre-existing knee problems when we drafted him. Annoys the heck out of me.[/quote]

Knee injuries tend to be reocurring though a lot of the time even with the surgery. I hope this isn't a Taylor Jacobs type thing. The very fact that you mentioned how we ignored his knee trouble in drafting him also baffles me. Damn Caps are getting blanked at home. What a crappy way to end a fine season.

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

not getting washington could mean thrash will remain...due to special teams skills

re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=skinsnut;557294]not getting washington [B]could mean thrash will remain[/B]...due to special teams skills[/quote]

I would't take that bet! I do not see Thrash making the team this year no matter who else we sign or don't sign at the WR spot.

We have to much young talent that will have to step up at the special team spots. And Thrash can't cut it as a WR for this team.

Re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;557245]Still wish we could have bit on Holt earlier in the year. Cut Thrash and ARE or see if we could have traded them. I like bringing in younger guys myself, but Holt is still a stud.[/quote]


Thrash has 0 trade value because of talent. And ARE has 0 trade value because of salary.

Re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=jsarno;555364]Nah, we will find a way out of it...we always do. Everyone, every year always says we are in cap trouble, yet we always wiggle out of it and thrive somehow.[/quote]


thrive?

Re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;555387]I don't think they ignored his knee problems necessarily, they were well aware of what they were getting and the risks involved. It's just a case of risk vs. reward and they felt in the long run he will pay off. We'll see.

That said if he has another injury plagued year this year I'll be right there with you.[/quote]

Yeah, vinny said on skins nation last year that Kelly's knee issue existed at Oklahoma but that he still played well. I think the reaction some of us have to the FO's approach to this is because we often have few draft picks to gamble with. Sure last year we ended up w/10, but it still is a high round pick to gamble with when you continue to trade picks & your roster lacks depth.

I realize on the other hand that he wasn't our highest 2nd round pick & that they gained some picks that draft. So obviously they thought highly of his ability, but not so much that they wanted him before Thomas.

Re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

[quote=Monksdown;557349]thrive?[/quote]

cap-wise sure

Re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

I didn't read it that way. To me, you are either under the cap or over the cap. There's no thriving unless you're talking about success in the season.

Re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

Anyone know if Williams has a special teams history? Since Washington went to the Ravens (better spot for him, opportunity to be the #3 WR where he'd be at best #4 or #5) we need a younger version of Thrash.

Re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

Does anyone think that Marko Mitchell could be a legit replacement for Kelly, or did I miss that thought somewhere?

Re: Skins look to improve WR-Sign Roydell Williams (could add Hackett)
 

Marko has not done anything yet including in college like Malcolm. I believe that Thomas will fill that role. You can not blame Cerrato for drafting Kelly in the second round since he had a first round grade. If his knees could get better he will be one heck of a player. I just think it falls on Campbell if our receivers are not productive this year. In the wco the ball has to come out fast and it seems like Campbell holds on the ball entirely too long in which our o-line is good anyway which makes it worst. I do believe that Campbell will have a better season since he has proven he gets better in the second year of a new offense.