Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;557507]my bad, he didnt forget. he claims he didnt hear the play. carolina game.
i remembered reading it wasnt the play called and he made one up. luckily and he even said god was with him as he hit Cooley who broke a long run for the TD to win.[/quote]

I was there!

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Monksdown;557569]consider the length of the post[/quote]
Delete the irrelevant parts that you're not responding to

kinda like I did here in a crude fashion

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Missin21;557709] It's like hating alcohol while being a drunk. I just don't get that.[/quote]
I've had those nights, or mornings after

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;557507]my bad, he didnt forget. he claims he didnt hear the play. carolina game.
i remembered reading it wasnt the play called and he made one up. luckily and he even said god was with him as he hit Cooley who broke a long run for the TD to win.[/quote]

It is kinda funny, you took from this a negative about JC -"he forgot" or "he claims(why claims? do you think he is lying) he didn't hear the play", and say that he was lucky to make one up that worked.
Somehow, i remember this as being a very positive moment for JC, he didn't waste a timeout, and took charge based on what the situation called for. It really shows he does have a grasp of whats going on around him. It also is a trait of humility to pass praise on to others, even when you were instrumental in making a good thing happen, nor does it make the fact that he made an excellent call in a pressure situation any less impressive.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Wasn't that Carolina game three years ago? And Campbell's second start ever (first home) in his career? Damn, tough crowd here

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=nephron22;557728]Enough is enough!! As of now JC is our QB- we don't have an heir-apparent. The receivers and O-line must step up to help him to the next level. If we don't show him some love of course he"ll bolt.
Last year's numbers were not bad given his deteriorating o-line and receiver situation as the year progressed. We need to show him there's a promising future here.[/quote]

I agree, JC is the QB because there is no other option. He needs everyone around him on O to be their absolute best and he will improve. Will that happen, we will see. That said I think a great QB can overcome a lot of deficiencies on O and still get him team to win. Look at Big Ben, he had a terrible O line and no running game yet he got the Steelers to win the Super Bowl. JC will never be that kind of QB but if the Skins can assemble a very good cast around him I think they can succeed.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

13 td's as a career high in a year. Last year he didn't throw for more than 2 td's once. He's been in the league 5 years. He's been a starter for 2.5 of those years. Half his career is over before he ever even took that big step forward. He's taken little steps, every year. His TD curve will have him throwing 25 td's when he's 33.

He's thrown for more than 2 td's in a game once, against the Eagles 2 years ago. And in 36 total games, he's thrown more int's than td's in 9 games. That's 25% of his starts girls.

At best, he's turning into a solid game manager. With his int's per game going down. One grain of salt in that statistic, could the first 8 games of last year been an anomaly. In my opinion, that's two significant a portion of his total games played to be the case. So, he's a game manager. And one last positive to support that concept. His qb rating continues to improve with games.

Bottom line, he's a first round draft pick that's probably turning into Trent Dilfer.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=irish;557745]i agree, jc is the qb because there is no other option. He needs everyone around him on o to be their absolute best and he will improve. Will that happen, we will see. That said i think a great qb can overcome a lot of deficiencies on o and still get him team to win. Look at big ben, he had a terrible o line and no running game yet he got the steelers to win the super bowl. Jc will never be that kind of qb but if the skins can assemble a very good cast around him i think they can succeed.[/quote]

469 281 3301 59.9 7.0 17 3.6 15 3.2 65 46 284 80.1
506 315 3245 62.3 6.4 13 2.6 6 1.2 67 38 266 84.3

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

EXACTLY!!

I would cut the guy some slack if he was a 3rd round pick or so but he is a first, a 1st round pick that we traded up to get. and i dont know about you guys but i expect a 1st round QB to be a game changer, not a game manager.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;557763]EXACTLY!!

I would cut the guy some slack if he was a 3rd round pick or so but he is a first, a 1st round pick that we traded up to get. and i dont know about you guys but i expect a 1st round QB to be a game changer, not a game manager.[/quote]

This is kind of like what skinsfan69 is saying about Jason Taylor. Don't blame Jason Campbell because the Redskins front office decided to trade up to get him. That was their decision, not his. This isn't like he was a #2 RB who left a team in free agency to go for the big bucks elsewhere and to be a starter. Campbell's only role in being part of a trade up was his performance in college and in the combines convinced the Redskins to make a move for him.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Monksdown;557758]13 td's as a career high in a year. Last year he didn't throw for more than 2 td's once. He's been in the league 5 years. He's been a starter for 2.5 of those years. Half his career is over before he ever even took that big step forward. He's taken little steps, every year. His TD curve will have him throwing 25 td's when he's 33.

He's thrown for more than 2 td's in a game once, against the Eagles 2 years ago. And in 36 total games, he's thrown more int's than td's in 9 games. That's 25% of his starts girls.

[B]At best, he's turning into a solid game manager. With his int's per game going down. One grain of salt in that statistic, could the first 8 games of last year been an anomaly. In my opinion, that's two significant a portion of his total games played to be the case. So, he's a game manager. And one last positive to support that concept. His qb rating continues to improve with games.[/B]

Bottom line, he's a first round draft pick that's probably turning into Trent Dilfer.[/quote]


True, but let's not underestimate the importance of game management. Campbell isn't losing games for us at this point, which is what a lot of back-ups do when they're thrust in because of a QB controversey. Until the Skins can draft and develop a better QB, a process that will take a number of years, I think we need to rely on JC as our QB; we've simply invested too much in him and he's shown the temerity necessary to play in a demanding market like DC.

Frankly I'd take JC over any QB that another team is desperately trying to get rid of (ie Cutler). JC doesn't carry baggage, and that's a beautiful thing.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Monksdown;557758]13 td's as a career high in a year. Last year he didn't throw for more than 2 td's once. He's been in the league 5 years. He's been a starter for 2.5 of those years. Half his career is over before he ever even took that big step forward. He's taken little steps, every year. His TD curve will have him throwing 25 td's when he's 33.

He's thrown for more than 2 td's in a game once, against the Eagles 2 years ago. And in 36 total games, he's thrown more int's than td's in 9 games. That's 25% of his starts girls.

At best, he's turning into a solid game manager. With his int's per game going down. One grain of salt in that statistic, could the first 8 games of last year been an anomaly. In my opinion, that's two significant a portion of his total games played to be the case. So, he's a game manager. And one last positive to support that concept. His qb rating continues to improve with games.

[b]Bottom line, he's a first round draft pick that's probably turning into Trent Dilfer.[/b][/quote]
That would be Super Bowl winning QB Trent Dilfer to you. Ultimate 'game manager', great defense, solid running game..

Look, there's nobody that can legitimately tell you that Campbell has lived up to all of the hopes and dreams of Redskins fans from a first round draft pick QB but the legions of fans who have given up on a QB that has less than 40 starts and has continually improved his game is ridiculous.

Call them excuses if you want to but to expect lights out performances from someone who's had 7 systems in 8 years, multiple QB coaches tinkering with his mechanics to fit their system not to mention our less than stellar receiving group then of course you're going to be disappointed. What he's endured in his first few years in the league is unprecedented.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

My only sadness is that we have to wait another season to replace him.
I said before i hope he breaks out and proves me wrong but i just dont see it.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;557762]469 281 3301 59.9 7.0 17 3.6 15 3.2 65 46 284 80.1
506 315 3245 62.3 6.4 13 2.6 6 1.2 67 38 266 84.3[/quote]

What does all that mean? I assume its each players numbers from last season. These numbers are nice but the only thing that really matters is that one QB lead his team to a SB win while the other hasnt won anything in his 5 years in the league.

I agree with the other post, if JC was a 3rd rounder I dont think we'd be having this conversation but he wasnt. Whether its his fault or not its his reality. I think the best we can hope for with JC is that he does become a decent game manager because he will never be a game changer.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

I cant name one Saint WR other than Colston and they led the league in Offense. NO running game, NO great Oline.

I love how the JC faithful downplay our team as a excuse for him.. We have CP who was a top rusher in the league for most of the season. We have Cooley who is a top 5 TE. We have Moss who is still a good WR and can be a game breaker if he had a good QB throwing him the ball.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;557771]My only sadness is that we have to wait another season to replace him.
I said before i hope he breaks out and proves me wrong but i just dont see it.[/quote]

I really don't get this. What has he done to make you so eager to replace him? What do you think another QB that we could have had this season via free agency or trade (since we tried for Cutler and didn't meet Denver's request he's out of the consideration) would you rather have back there? If your QB of choice, whomever it is, were back there at QB what results do you think they'd deliver that Campbell has not/will not?

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

I really don't get this. What has he done to make you so eager to replace him?

The real question is, what has he done for us NOT to want to replace him???

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Monksdown;557758]13 td's as a career high in a year. Last year he didn't throw for more than 2 td's once. He's been in the league 5 years. He's been a starter for 2.5 of those years. Half his career is over before he ever even took that big step forward. He's taken little steps, every year. His TD curve will have him throwing 25 td's when he's 33.

[b]He's thrown for more than 2 td's in a game once, against the Eagles 2 years ago. And in 36 total games, he's thrown more int's than td's in 9 games. That's 25% of his starts girls.[/b]

At best, he's turning into a solid game manager. With his int's per game going down. One grain of salt in that statistic, could the first 8 games of last year been an anomaly. In my opinion, that's two significant a portion of his total games played to be the case. So, he's a game manager. And one last positive to support that concept. His qb rating continues to improve with games.

Bottom line, he's a first round draft pick that's probably turning into Trent Dilfer.[/quote]

Just using your (random) metrics:

In his first 36 starts he threw for more than 2 tds in a game three times. In those 36 games he threw more ints than tds twelve times. That's 33% of his starts ladies! At best he's a 1st round pick who is turning into .... Ben Roethlisberger.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=irish;557773]What does all that mean? I assume its each players numbers from last season. These numbers are nice but the only thing that really matters is that one QB lead his team to a SB win while the other hasnt won anything in his 5 years in the league.[/quote]

I think it says that the gap between SB Winning QB Roethlisberger and 8-8 QB Jason Campbell is much smaller than some think.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

At best he's a 1st round pick who is turning into .... Ben Roethlisberger.

Are you serious?? Big Ben wins games.. Thats the difference.What was the streak Pittsburgh went on? But this isnt a fair deal. Big Ben is in a power run O and its not all on him. The WCO goes as the QB goes and with JC, we wont go far.IMO

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;557774][B]I cant name one Saint WR other than Colston and they led the league in Offense. NO running game, NO great Oline. [/B]

I love how the JC faithful downplay our team as a excuse for him.. We have CP who was a top rusher in the league for most of the season. We have Cooley who is a top 5 TE. We have Moss who is still a good WR and can be a game breaker if he had a good QB throwing him the ball.[/quote]

That's an indictment on you as a football fan then. You can't name Lance Moore, David Patten, Devrey Henderson, Robert Meachem not to mention Jeremy Shockey? Bush had a solid year running the ball and Pierre Thomas had a breakout year (as a complimentary back) back there as well.

Portis cracked 100 yards once in the 2nd half of the season and averaged more than 4.0 yards per carry in 2 games after week 8. Teams were double covering Moss and bracketing Cooley down the stretch because they knew Randle-El, Thomas and Thrash could be contained with single coverage. It's really simple to refute general claims with specifics. Call it being a 'JC faithful' but it's really just stating football facts.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;557778]I think it says that the gap between SB Winning QB Roethlisberger and 8-8 QB Jason Campbell is much smaller than some think.[/quote]

Bingo. "But Roethlisberger is a winner" and "the Redskins defense is just as good as the Steelers. Hey, they were #4 in the whole league based on yards allowed and clearly that is the only way to judge a defense." OK.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Paintrain;557770]That would be Super Bowl winning QB Trent Dilfer to you. Ultimate 'game manager', great defense, solid running game..

Look, there's nobody that can legitimately tell you that Campbell has lived up to all of the hopes and dreams of Redskins fans from a first round draft pick QB but the legions of fans who have given up on a QB that has less than 40 starts and has continually improved his game is ridiculous.

Call them excuses if you want to but to expect lights out performances from someone who's had 7 systems in 8 years, multiple QB coaches tinkering with his mechanics to fit their system not to mention our less than stellar receiving group then of course you're going to be disappointed. What he's endured in his first few years in the league is unprecedented.[/quote]

Those excuses are awful. And in hindsight in 5 years, you'll remember those excuses as the sugar coating justification you played with during this failed quarterback project. And why not, everyone else is selling themselves on the lack of data too. You shouldn't feel alone.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;557776]I really don't get this. What has he done to make you so eager to replace him?

The real question is, what has he done for us NOT to want to replace him???[/quote]

It was a simple question that you couldn't answer obviously.

My answer is progress. Each year improving in completion percentage, yards, TD, turnover ratio, QB rating, wins. What do you have?

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Paintrain;557781]That's an indictment on you as a football fan then. You can't name Lance Moore, David Patten, Devrey Henderson, Robert Meachem not to mention Jeremy Shockey? Bush had a solid year running the ball and Pierre Thomas had a breakout year (as a complimentary back) back there as well.

Portis cracked 100 yards once in the 2nd half of the season and averaged more than 4.0 yards per carry in 2 games after week 8. Teams were double covering Moss and bracketing Cooley down the stretch because they knew Randle-El, Thomas and Thrash could be contained with single coverage. It's really simple to refute general claims with specifics. Call it being a 'JC faithful' but it's really just stating football facts.[/quote]

Haha. Your "facts" don't matter here. I prefer hyper-generalizations and impressionistic commentary!

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;557777]Just using your (random) metrics:

In his first 36 starts he threw for more than [B]2 tds in a game three times[/B]. In those 36 games he threw more ints than tds twelve times. That's 33% of his starts ladies! At best he's a 1st round pick who is turning into .... Ben Roethlisberger.[/quote]

incorrect.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Robert Meachem not to mention Jeremy Shockey?

Uh, i live close to N.O and they hate Shockey and Meachem is near bust status.

Here is a STAT for you guys. 13 td's, 4 came in 2 games so thats 9 td's in 14 games. There is a reason we couldnt trade JC. He is not as good as you think he is.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Monksdown;557783]Those excuses are awful. And in hindsight in 5 years, you'll remember those excuses as the sugar coating justification you played with during this failed quarterback project. And why not, everyone else is selling themselves on the lack of data too. You shouldn't feel alone.[/quote]

I love how you call facts 'excuses'. In hindsight in 8 months when Campbell dramatically improves in all of the areas he's criticized about then as a result of continuity, then what will your comments be?

I've never seen consistent progress so easily dismissed as 'failure'. It's laughable.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;557778]I think it says that the gap between SB Winning QB Roethlisberger and 8-8 QB Jason Campbell is much smaller than some think.[/quote]

And the gap might very well be confidence. Ben shoots the ball into tight situations, while JC opts to go to the checkdown man in similar situations. JC needs to get over his fear of INTs because he's got a nasty arm, strong and accurate.

Remember last year when JC hadn't thrown an INT through the first 8 games? That's not necessarily a good stat, especially when your team in near the bottom of the league in 3rd down conversions. Optimistically, if our defense starts causing turnovers, that could be the prompting JC needs to begin taking more risks. Who knows.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Coff;557792]And the gap might very well be confidence. Ben shoots the ball into tight situations, while JC opts to go to the checkdown man in similar situations. JC needs to get over his fear of INTs because he's got a nasty arm, strong and accurate.

[B]Remember last year when JC hadn't thrown an INT through the first 8 games? That's not necessarily a good stat,[/B] especially when your team in near the bottom of the league in 3rd down conversions. Optimistically, if our defense starts causing turnovers, that could be the prompting JC needs to begin taking more risks. Who knows.[/quote]

While I agree that JC has been conditioned by Gibbs to be ultra conservative in his decision making and as a fan it's frustrating to see him check down so frequently, I don't know any football mind that will agree that 0 INT is 'non necessarily a good stat.' A punt is always better than a pick, 100 times out of 100.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Monksdown;557788]incorrect.[/quote]

Those were Roethlisberger's statistics.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Paintrain;557790]I love how you call facts 'excuses'. In hindsight in 8 months when Campbell dramatically improves in all of the areas he's criticized about then as a result of continuity, then what will your comments be?

I've never seen consistent progress so easily dismissed as 'failure'. It's laughable.[/quote]

What's laughable is how my entire anaylsis was based on my carefull study of his statistics this morning. Which reveal quite clearly, as i stated, that he is making progress. But at such a ridiculously slow rate, that he could possibly throw 25 td's(reasonable) when he's 33 years old. He's been in the league 5 years brother. 5! He's halfway out of the league already. The numbers are there. I told you, at best, he's turning into a game manager. He'll never be in the pro bowl.

Get over it. Don't be so blindly supporting.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;557797]Those were Roethlisberger's statistics. Try to keep up.[/quote]

roger

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Paintrain;557793]While I agree that JC has been conditioned by Gibbs to be ultra conservative in his decision making and as a fan it's frustrating to see him check down so frequently, I don't know any football mind that will agree that 0 INT is 'non necessarily a good stat.' A punt is always better than a pick, 100 times out of 100.[/quote]


You're absolutely right, 0 INTs in 8 games is incredible, but my point was that a deeper look may indicate that the stat isn't as illustrious as it initially appears. A first down is better than both a punt and a pick.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

I love how you call facts 'excuses'. In hindsight in 8 months when Campbell dramatically improves in all of the areas he's criticized about then as a result of continuity, then what will your comments be?

Ill say Dang, he turned into a good QB. Too bad he's gone. IMO no matter what he does he is gone. either he does bad and is gone in FA or he does well and leaves because we tried to trade him and he cant trust the FO. either way we are QB searchin next season

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

i dont put alot in the 0 ints. its not like he was scoring 2-3 tds a game while doing it. just tells me he was playin not to lose

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;557803]I love how you call facts 'excuses'. In hindsight in 8 months when Campbell dramatically improves in all of the areas he's criticized about then as a result of continuity, then what will your comments be?

Ill say Dang, he turned into a good QB. Too bad he's gone. IMO no matter what he does he is gone. either he does bad and is gone in FA or he does well and leaves because we tried to trade him and he cant trust the FO. either way we are QB searchin next season[/quote]

no matter how you came to the conclusion, i'm glad you see the light.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Monksdown;557798]What's laughable is how my entire anaylsis was based on my carefull study of his statistics this morning. Which reveal quite clearly, as i stated, that he is making progress. But at such a ridiculously slow rate, that he could possibly throw 25 td's(reasonable) when he's 33 years old. He's been in the league 5 years brother. 5! He's halfway out of the league already. The numbers are there. I told you, at best, he's turning into a game manager. He'll never be in the pro bowl.

Get over it. Don't be so blindly supporting.[/quote]

Trent Green had one pass attempt in his first four years and turned into a 2x Pro Bowler. Rich Gannon had 28 TDs his first five years (none his first three years) and turned into a 4x Pro Bowler. Brad Johson had 17 TDs his first five years (0 his first four) and turned into a 2x Pro Bowler (with a SB ring). Steve Young threw 32 TDs his first five years and he turned out ok.

I realize these are not all 1st round picks we're talking about here, but the point is Campbell still has the potential to have a very bright future ahead of him.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Monksdown;557798]What's laughable is how my entire anaylsis was based on my carefull study of his statistics this morning. Which reveal quite clearly, as i stated, that he is making progress. But at such a ridiculously slow rate, that he could possibly throw 25 td's(reasonable) when he's 33 years old. He's been in the league 5 years brother. 5! He's halfway out of the league already. The numbers are there. I told you, at best, he's turning into a game manager. He'll never be in the pro bowl.

Get over it. Don't be so blindly supporting.[/quote]
What would you call a QB going into his third full season as a starter with career numbers of a completion percentage below 60%, right around 200 YPG, 28 TD and 31 INT, passer rating in the low-mid 70's and a winning percentage below .500?

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Trent Green? wasnt he with Al Saunders when he was havin pro bowl seasons??
Gannon was good because he was a true student of the game, that guy could write the playbook for you. he put the time in.
and it wasnt hard for Johnson to win the SB with that BUC D. they scored like 21pts in that game vs the Raiders.