Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Brian Orakpo;559752]are bringing up no facts except that Eli won SB MVP. If you think that makes him a great QB and better than QBs with better numbers yearly so be it.[/quote]

Yes you are, your'e ignoring the one big fact that over rides all others and is the point of playing,.............winning a championship!.See this is my point ,I never said he was great....nope, I said he's better then Romo and that is what the thread and my post are about,McNabb,Eli, Campbell,Romo....just NFC east QB's ...nothing else.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Giantone;559851]Yes you are, your'e ignoring [B]the one big fact that over rides all others and is the point of playing,.............winning a championship[/B]!.See this is my point ,I never said he was great....nope, I said he's better then Romo and that is what the thread and my post are about,McNabb,Eli, Campbell,Romo....just NFC east QB's ...nothing else.[/quote]

But winning the SB is not the overriding factor in this type of discussion because it does not determine the best QB. The clear example, which has been overused this century, but still applies, is Trent Dilfer.

The Superbowl is the team goal. It is what every player young or old dreams of winning. BUT not every starter on a SB winning team is suddenly the best at his position. Not for the point of this discussion at least. David Tyree had a heck of a play, but he is not even your best WR. Manning made a heck of an escape, but he is not statistically the best QB in the NFC.

If you want the discussion to be which NFCE QB has the most SB rings, then Eli wins. This discussion is about which QB plays the best for his position.
I would say it depends what your main criteria is:

If you go by statistics I would say Romo.
If you go by consistency and ability I would say McNabb.
If you go by potential I would go with Campbell.
If you go by team achievement i would say Eli.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Giantone;559851]Yes you are, your'e ignoring the one big fact that over rides all others and is the point of playing,.............winning a championship!.See this is my point ,I never said he was great....nope, I said he's better then Romo and that is what the thread and my post are about,McNabb,Eli, Campbell,Romo....just NFC east QB's ...nothing else.[/quote]He's sees what you are saying, but he's telling you that you are wrong. I agree with him.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;559852]But winning the SB is not the overriding factor in this type of discussion because it does not determine the best QB. The clear example, which has been overused this century, but still applies, is Trent Dilfer.

The Superbowl is the team goal. It is what every player young or old dreams of winning. BUT not every starter on a SB winning team is suddenly the best at his position. Not for the point of this discussion at least. David Tyree had a heck of a play, but he is not even your best WR. Manning made a heck of an escape, but he is not statistically the best QB in the NFC.

If you want the discussion to be which NFCE QB has the most SB rings, then Eli wins. This discussion is about which QB plays the best for his position.
I would say it depends what your main criteria is:

If you go by statistics I would say Romo.
If you go by consistency and ability I would say McNabb.
If you go by potential I would go with Campbell.
If you go by team achievement i would say Eli.[/quote]

Agreed to a point but it is a fact that can not be ignored .Again I never said he's the best at his postion.....and if you go back I put McNabb at the front then Eli,yes he's better then Romo,I think Campbell is better then Romo also...The point of playing your best is to give your team the best chance of winning,Eli does ,Romo does not.If we go by your argument the Romo is better then McNabb..............ahhh no.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;560015]He's sees what you are saying, but he's telling you that you are wrong. I agree with him.[/quote]

Then your'e both wrong.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Giantone;560016]Agreed to a point but it is a fact that can not be ignored .Again I never said he's the best at his postion.....and if you go back I put McNabb at the front then Eli,yes he's better then Romo,I think Campbell is better then Romo also...The point of playing your best is to give your team the best chance of winning,Eli does ,Romo does not.If we go by your argument the Romo is better then McNabb..............ahhh no.[/quote]Well, you are saying there's no way that Eli's better than Romo, and you simply need more on your side to be able to say that.

But it appears that by the rest of your rankings, this isn't at all about Eli. This is about not really seeing Romo for what he is. Because I think you can make a good argument that McNabb is better than Eli is better than Campbell (even though I don't necessarily agree with that, I think they are all about the same player at this point in their careers). But out of ALL THREE of those guys, only Donovan McNabb has had even one season as good as Romo's worst year. Three guys. 18 seasons. 1/18 in having a better year than Romo's 2009. Clearly, Romo is the best QB in the division by pretty much any measure.

And if you want to talk playoff victory's, then you have to exclude everything that isn't in the first round, as not to compare apples to oranges (i.e. considering more than one game in a one-and-done format -- since we aren't talking about a bunch of multiple ring winners). Campbell has never started a playoff game. Romo is oh-for-2 as a playoff QB. Eli is a mere 1-for-4 in first round games. McNabb, however, is a perfect 7-for-7 in his first round playoff games.

So, playoff wise, Eli has been much more comparable to Romo than he is to McNabb, who is historically a very, very good playoff quarterback, actually better than he is in the regular season.

And because of that, I think people can say 1) McNabb, and 2) Romo, and can use postseason performance to back it up. Other than that though, Romo appears to be a tier, if not two, above everyone else in the division.

And this comes from a Skins fan.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;560040]Well, you are saying there's no way that Eli's better than Romo, and you simply need more on your side to be able to say that.

But it appears that by the rest of your rankings, this isn't at all about Eli. This is about not really seeing Romo for what he is. Because I think you can make a good argument that McNabb is better than Eli is better than Campbell (even though I don't necessarily agree with that, I think they are all about the same player at this point in their careers). But out of ALL THREE of those guys, only Donovan McNabb has had even one season as good as Romo's worst year. Three guys. 18 seasons. 1/18 in having a better year than Romo's 2009. Clearly, Romo is the best QB in the division by pretty much any measure.

And if you want to talk playoff victory's, then you have to exclude everything that isn't in the first round, as not to compare apples to oranges (i.e. considering more than one game in a one-and-done format -- since we aren't talking about a bunch of multiple ring winners). Campbell has never started a playoff game. Romo is oh-for-2 as a playoff QB. Eli is a mere 1-for-4 in first round games. McNabb, however, is a perfect 7-for-7 in his first round playoff games.

So, playoff wise, Eli has been much more comparable to Romo than he is to McNabb, who is historically a very, very good playoff quarterback, actually better than he is in the regular season.

And because of that, I think people can say 1) McNabb, and 2) Romo, and can use postseason performance to back it up. Other than that though, Romo appears to be a tier, if not two, above everyone else in the division.

And this comes from a Skins fan.[/quote]

I said I wasnt gonna post anymore in this thread because it was going into a straight up back and forth battle but I had to post this...

No matter what your opinions are about the QBs in the NFC East you have to agree this was a very well thought out post.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

I'm just going to take my point above, and move it into a top ten list to better illustrate my point.

The top 10 QB seasons in NFC East history (since the 2002 realignment)
[According to Football Outsiders DYAR]

1. McNabb, 2004 (1,393)
2. Romo, 2007 (1,295)
3. McNabb, 2008 (1,048)
4. E. Manning, 2008 (1,031)
5. K. Collins, 2002 (1,007)
6. Romo, 2008 (878) [13 games]
7. Romo, 2006 (696) [10 games]
8. McNabb, 2006 (658) [11 games]
9. McNabb, 2007 (658)
10. Campbell, 2008 (656)

Romo only has had three seasons as a starting QB in the NFL, and he's clearly the most prolific passer in the history of the 4 team division. However, McNabb has had enough strong seasons where I believe you could make the argument that he should be the divisions no. 1, and he's the only one of the group that has enjoyed playoff success.

Admittedly though, I did not realize how good McNabb's 2008 was. His case for No. 1 looks way weaker if I were to take that off the list. See:

1. McNabb, 2004 (1,393)
2. Romo, 2007 (1,295)
3. E. Manning, 2008 (1,031)
4. K. Collins, 2002 (1,007)
5. Romo, 2008 (878) [13 games]
6. Romo, 2006 (696) [10 games]
7. McNabb, 2006 (658) [11 games]
8. McNabb, 2007 (658)
9. Campbell, 2008 (656)
10. E. Manning, 2005 (604)

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;559572]But if you threw Romo and Eli onto the same roster, most people would agree that this hypothetical team would be more likely to win games with Romo in than Eli. Thus, the conclusion is that Romo is better. That's just common sense.

I don't think many people are convinced that Romo is a top three QB, I don't even know if he's top five (Brees, Brady, Rivers, Peyton...and then who?), but clearly, he's more accomplished as a player than Eli is. EVERY SEASON Romo has ever played has been more productive than the very best season Eli has had. [B]Eli got the one super bowl opportunity between the two of them, simply because the Giants are a better run organization than the Cowboys. Not because of inherent greatness. Chances are, if Accorsi had been there to build the Cowboys, post-Parcells, Romo would have a ring right now.[/quote][/B]

[B]Good post here. The Giants are better run and Eli played safe football but still.....Eli had his chance and he took advantage of his opportunity. We don't know how Romo would've thrown the ball in -20 degees when NY had to play in GB. It wasn't just Eli's SB game, he played very well in horrible conditions at GB. Let's not forget that.[/B]

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=skinsfan69;560168]
Good post here. The Giants are better run and Eli played safe football but still.....Eli had his chance and he took advantage of his opportunity. We don't know how Romo would've thrown the ball in -20 degees when NY had to play in GB. It wasn't just Eli's SB game, he played very well in horrible conditions at GB. Let's not forget that.[/quote]I think the Eli should get plenty of credit for playing well during that stretch. The Giants did not win the super bowl in spite of him. His play was a major cog in that run.

Ultimately though, the Giants weren't playing with the best-stacked deck in those playoffs. So while Eli deserves plenty of credit for his string of play, it's still improper to point out he "has a ring" without pointing out that he was considerably lucky to get all the way with that team.

By that I mean, Eli and the Giants weren't knocking on the door of the SB in the two seasons prior to 2007, they had long been a playoff afterthought. Eli had not done anything of note in the playoffs prior to January 2008. So when the Giants got going, and beat down two very talented teams in the Bucs and the Cowboys, they had rightfully earned their shot at a ring. But the Packers and Pats both had plenty of oppertities to deny the Giants the championship.

My point, is in a one and done format, it's not right to hate on those who haven't gone all the way. Teams that lose in the first round might have very well gone 3-1 if the playoffs were a round robin instead of play-off. It's essentially why I believe that teams that consistently get deep into the playoffs but don't ever win are more accomplished than teams like the Giants, who are a playoff afterthought in most years, but happen to win it all just once.

The difference between the Cards and the Giants is James Harrison falling on the Goal Line as opposed to the half yard line, or even Asante Samuels' hands failing him.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=skinsfan69;560168][/b]

[B]Good post here. The Giants are better run and Eli played safe football but still.....Eli had his chance and he took advantage of his opportunity. We don't know how Romo would've thrown the ball in -20 degees when NY had to play in GB. It wasn't just Eli's SB game, he played very well in horrible conditions at GB. Let's not forget that.[/B][/quote]

Yes he did but look at when football really counts ...in Dec and Jan and Romo stinks.........,Romo in Dec/Jan
Wins....5
Losses...10

Completions...297
Attemps.....541

completion %...58%

Passing yards....3,385
Passing YPG.....225.6

FUMBLES.......19

PS, sorry it took me so long ...I've been working a lot over the Memorial Day weekend.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

No way in hell is Eli better than Romo. Just because he won the SB doesnt always mean the QB is a better individual player. If so then Dilfer is better than Marino.? I personally think Eli is highly overrated and if his last name was Dilfer he would be ummmm Dilfer.
I love when the Giants pass as opposed to running Jacobs and Co. esp. with Plax gone now.
NFC East QB's: McNabb, Romo, Eli, Cambpell

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

All the Eli lovers baffle me. He had one nice late season/playoff push behind a very good D and awesome O-line. Outside of that, he's one of the most intercepted QB's in the league (74 in 5 seasons), and his career rating hovers in the mid 70's. How has he done without his little safety blankey (Plaxico)?? Exactly.

I'd like to see him play behind the Skins O-line while throwing to our paltry receiving corps. Super Bowl or not, I still think the Chargers robbed the Giants with that draft day trade. Philip Rivers, and two picks that turned into Nate Keading and Shawne Merriman.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

Chargers definitely rapped the Giants on that one. Rivers alone is much better than Eli. I really believe if his last name were Jenkins and he played in K.C. or somewhere, he would easily be a below average QB

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=mrreddman;560396]Chargers definitely rapped the Giants on that one. Rivers alone is much better than Eli. I really believe if his last name were Jenkins and he played in K.C. or somewhere, he would easily be a below average QB[/quote]

I'll be the first to admit that I have never liked the way the Giants picked up Eli,that has never been a secret with me.I still say the point of this league is to win a championship.If the person that runs the team on the field has choked in all the big games he has played in...well ,no I don't think he's(Romo) very good.
As for Rivers .....I don't know and don't care ,the thread is about NFC east QB's not the whole league.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Giantone;560430]I'll be the first to admit that I have never liked the way the Giants picked up Eli,that has never been a secret with me.I still say the point of this league is to win a championship.If the person that runs the team on the field has choked in all the big games he has played in...well ,no I don't think he's(Romo) very good.
As for Rivers .....I don't know and don't care ,the thread is about NFC east QB's not the whole league.[/quote]Well, Eli has "choked" in December and January many more times than Romo has. Don't just ignore that. Romo's oppertunities have been limited to a small handful of meaningful December and January games thanks to the Cowboys not always being the strongest team at that point in the season. He's currently oh-for, but he's also been around about half as long as Eli.

I'm saying, don't write Romo off as a choker, becuase at this point in Eli's career, he was known as Peyton's choking little brother.

If the Cowboys start 6-7 next year, but win their final three games and still miss the playoffs, would Romo still be a choker? He might just win in December while no one is watching.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=mrreddman;560396]Chargers definitely rapped the Giants on that one. Rivers alone is much better than Eli. I really believe if his last name were Jenkins and he played in K.C. or somewhere, he would easily be a below average QB[/quote]



I also believe that if Rivers played in K.C he would be below average,without LT he's nothing but aloud mouth.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Giantone;560546]I also believe that if Rivers played in K.C he would be below average,without LT he's nothing but aloud mouth.[/quote]

Im guessing you didnt watch any Charger games last season? Tomlinson averaged 3.8 ypc last year (his worst season since his rookie year) and Rivers still had 4000 yards passing for the first time in his career and also threw 34 TDs with only 11 INTs.

Shouldnt Rivers numbers go down and not up if what you say is true?

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

Rivers is for real. That shouldn't even be up for debate after last year.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

Yeah Giantone, Rivers is pretty damn nice for real. Id take him over every QB in the NFC east. I do agree though Romo is somewhat of a choker though. He has the skills to get it done, but alot like Farve, he is cocky and tries to gamble almost too much. He has the talent around him so there isnt really a need to always gamble but I wouldn't count him out just yet. Damn it kills me to say that as much as hate them!!!

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Brian Orakpo;560557]Im guessing you didnt watch any Charger games last season? Tomlinson averaged 3.8 ypc last year (his worst season since his rookie year) and Rivers still had 4000 yards passing for the first time in his career and also threw 34 TDs with only 11 INTs.

Shouldnt Rivers numbers go down and not up if what you say is true?[/quote]

Nope ,I will admit I didn't watch to many of them.Then again unless the're playing my team or in my divison....I don't care all that much.I still believe he's classless.We're kinda getting off the post but I realize his #'s aren't bad but this link has the vidio to back up how I feel about him.

[url=http://www.campussqueeze.com/post/Douchebag-Report-Card--Philip-Rivers.aspx]Douchebag Report Card: Philip Rivers | Campus Squeeze[/url]

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Mattyk72;560559]Rivers is for real. That shouldn't even be up for debate after last year.[/quote]

Mattyk72 ,what happen last year,what did he win?See this is what I mean and I guess it's just me but to me the point is winning the Super Bowl,he's not in the greatest divison in the NFL yeah I'll admit his #'s are good but so what,at the end who had the better year Phill or Ben?

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Giantone;560707]Mattyk72 ,what happen last year,what did he win?See this is what I mean and I guess it's just me but to me the point is winning the Super Bowl,he's not in the greatest divison in the NFL yeah I'll admit his #'s are good but so what,at the end who had the better year Phill or Ben?[/quote]

Your argument gets weaker and weaker by the post. Just because he didn't win the Super Bowl doesn't mean Rivers isn't a damn good quarterback. You seem to completely ignore the concept of "team sport"

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Giantone;560707]Mattyk72 ,what happen last year,what did he win?See this is what I mean and I guess it's just me but to me the point is winning the Super Bowl,he's not in the greatest divison in the NFL yeah I'll admit his #'s are good but so what,at the end who had the better year Phill or Ben?[/quote]

From a pure statistical point of view it's not even close, Rivers clearly had a better season. He had the highest QB rating in the entire league.

In the end Ben had the better team and of course he's no slouch either, but c'mon we're talking about two different things.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

[quote=Giantone;560705]Nope ,I will admit I didn't watch to many of them.Then again unless the're playing my team or in my divison....I don't care all that much.I still believe he's classless.We're kinda getting off the post but I realize his #'s aren't bad but this link has the vidio to back up how I feel about him.

[url=http://www.campussqueeze.com/post/Douchebag-Report-Card--Philip-Rivers.aspx]Douchebag Report Card: Philip Rivers | Campus Squeeze[/url][/quote]

Rivers does talk alot of trash. After seeing him play with a torn ACL in the AFC Championship game vs the Patriots to try to help his team go to the SB I changed by opinion about him. Any NFL player willing to run around on a torn ACL deserves my respect.

Re: Rank the NFC East teams position by position....
 

Rivers is a trash talking loudmouth who I would love to have on my team. He's competitive in a TEAM way.