Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;576816]Really? We should probably start a thread to discuss them!!![/quote]

Maybe we could get a debate between JoeRedskin and Saden going. We would have to limit length of posts though ;)

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;576767]Fine. I give up. Look, Obama has done some good things (already outlined) and he's broken promises (outlined as well), but that's to be expected. Politicians always make promises they can't keep when campaigning. Whether it's not kept through their own fault or reasons beyond their control, campaign promises are impossible to keep 100% of the time.

But this whole Obama hates America because there is allegedly no proof he was born in the United States is among the dumbest of the litany of dumb political posts here. That a Redskins fan would think that makes me both embarrassed to be a Redskins fan and a registered Republican.

I blame only myself for even participating in such a stupid discussion[/quote]
Come on SS you cannot read this post of mine and not know I was joking. As I said several post before this one I have not followed the issue of his BC and that would probably indicate that I really don't care. Even if it was proven that Obama was not born in the US we would just get his side kick Biden and wouldn't that then make speaker of the house NP VP.
[I] [/I]
[I]My post you replied to:[/I]
[I]They are hiding something. If you look at the fine print on the bottom it says this will serve as proff in court but this is not a court. I demand a recount. By the way SS anybody (except me) with computers now days can make one of those things up.[/I]
[I] [/I]
[I] [/I]
[I] [/I]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=JLee9718;576798]It seems that there's an organized effort by the Republicans to make Obama look bad in these town hall meetings. Honestly, I got an e-mail from a conservative friend where a doctor attacked Obama's health proposal. We complain about getting big bills from doctors, then we claim that they must know more than any of the rest of us on what Obama's health plan really means. What I'm thinking is [SIZE=4]it means less money for the doctors (and rightly so),[/SIZE] and that's the real reason they don't like it.[/quote]

Please explain why you think doctors should not get paid the money they are currently making. The reason I ask is I have two friends that are doctors and I'll also add they probably make more money then any of my other friends. With that said they both work harder then anyone else I know and they earn the money they make. If you start to cut doctors pay they will not become doctors and choose a career that pays them for their hard work. You will then water down the quality of doctors over time.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=JLee9718;576798][B]It seems that there's an organized effort by the Republicans to make Obama look bad in these town hall meetings.[/B] Honestly, I got an e-mail from a conservative friend where a doctor attacked Obama's health proposal. We complain about getting big bills from doctors, then we claim that they must know more than any of the rest of us on what Obama's health plan really means. What I'm thinking is it means less money for the doctors (and rightly so), and that's the real reason they don't like it.[/quote]
Certainly there was never any organized effort by the opposition party to make other Presidents look bad. And with biased facts at that. OMG I can't believe how unfair they are.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;576767]Fine. I give up. Look, Obama has done some good things (already outlined) and he's broken promises (outlined as well), but that's to be expected. Politicians always make promises they can't keep when campaigning. Whether it's not kept through their own fault or reasons beyond their control, campaign promises are impossible to keep 100% of the time.

[SIZE=4]But this whole Obama hates America because there is allegedly no proof he was born in the United States is among the dumbest of the litany of dumb political posts here. [/SIZE]That a Redskins fan would think that makes me both embarrassed to be a Redskins fan and a registered Republican.

I blame only myself for even participating in such a stupid discussion[/quote]

From what I have read in the post here people are not saying he hates America because he was not born here they are looking at the people he associated with over the years. I currently do not buy into he hates Americia but its not that far of a stretch for someone to come up with that looking at his past relationships with certain people. Rev Write we know what he has said and he also had a close relationship to people who bombed a police cars. There are other ? people but I cannot think of them at this moment.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

I have, and still do, associate with people who do not share my views -- some are even my good friends. It's important to understand that people's views don't have to conform to yours to make them valid. Once you understand that, it's easy to accept it.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;576207]thats bullcrap. bush thought going into iraq was the right thing to do. we were attacked on american soil, i would say bush had a huge set of balls for actually fighting back instead of just standing pat and saying to the american people "we prolly deserved that, lets appoligize for the way we've been living and maybe the terrorists will leave us alone". thats what obama and all the lefties would want to do. bush fought back and to this day he still gets bashed for it.


and thanks for telling me how to spend my money. you want me to pay for another's health care to "save a life" but your prolly for abortion.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]1. Iraq had nothing to do with the attack on American soil. You cannot fight a war against terrorists on a typical battlefield. The terrorists that attacked the U.S. were sent by a man hiding in Afghanistan. But you are right, Bush had the balls to persuade less intelligent people like you that going into Iraq was what we needed to do. Now before you start questioning my patriotism, realize that I was there. I could argue on and on about the war, but I would rather point out that you’re a hypocrite.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]2. You said thanks for telling you how to spend your money. Isn't that what America does every day by telling countries that they cannot invest in their nuclear programs? You are telling me that I cannot tell you not to drive a V-8 because it is bad for the environment, but you can tell Iran not to make missiles because they are bad for the environment. That's awesome! Who told America that we couldn't make our nuclear missiles and build our nuclear sub marines and power plants? We tell them because we understand the devastation that may come of them just like I understand the devastation by you driving your V-8. So come on Wolfeskis, please don’t drive a V-8 or I will sanction you and plan air strikes against your garage.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]3. You say that I want money for healthcare and I am for abortion. Let’s get one thing straight. I am for healthcare, but nobody is for abortion! There are just people out there that realize that there are circumstances that exist in which abortion is the lesser of 2 evils. If a woman is raped and she does not want to keep a child...I understand. If the mother has 50% chance of survival and the child has zero...I understand. You guys have to stop thinking in terms of it's this way or that way, and realize the grey areas out there.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]4. Only you can prevent narrow mindedness. Do you really think that by adopting universal healthcare that we would actually allow a person into their 90's to just die? We as a society would not allow this. You guys bitch about how much money Obama is spending and how much is coming out of your pocket and you truly believe that the government is just going to take your money let grandma die? That's good old Republican cynicism at its best. Nothing like some good ole hell and damnation preaching! Grandma is going to be OK, so are your son, your father and anyone else. The good news is that there are also going to be people that never had healthcare before that are going to be OK as well.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Angry;576998][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]1. Iraq had nothing to do with the attack on American soil. You cannot fight a war against terrorists on a typical battlefield. The terrorists that attacked the U.S. were sent by a man hiding in Afghanistan. But you are right, Bush had the balls to persuade less intelligent people like you that going into Iraq was what we needed to do. Now before you start questioning my patriotism, realize that I was there. I could argue on and on about the war, but I would rather point out that you’re a hypocrite.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]2. You said thanks for telling you how to spend your money. Isn't that what America does every day by telling countries that they cannot invest in their nuclear programs? You are telling me that I cannot tell you not to drive a V-8 because it is bad for the environment, but you can tell Iran not to make missiles because they are bad for the environment. That's awesome! Who told America that we couldn't make our nuclear missiles and build our nuclear sub marines and power plants? We tell them because we understand the devastation that may come of them just like I understand the devastation by you driving your V-8. So come on Wolfeskis, please don’t drive a V-8 or I will sanction you and plan air strikes against your garage.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]3. You say that I want money for healthcare and I am for abortion. Let’s get one thing straight. I am for healthcare, but nobody is for abortion! There are just people out there that realize that there are circumstances that exist in which abortion is the lesser of 2 evils. If a woman is raped and she does not want to keep a child...I understand. If the mother has 50% chance of survival and the child has zero...I understand. You guys have to stop thinking in terms of it's this way or that way, and realize the grey areas out there.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]4. Only you can prevent narrow mindedness. Do you really think that by adopting universal healthcare that we would actually allow a person into their 90's to just die? We as a society would not allow this. You guys bitch about how much money Obama is spending and how much is coming out of your pocket and you truly believe that the government is just going to take your money let grandma die? That's good old Republican cynicism at its best. Nothing like some good ole hell and damnation preaching! Grandma is going to be OK, so are your son, your father and anyone else. The good news is that there are also going to be people that never had healthcare before that are going to be OK as well.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

There are over 1,200,000 abortions a year in the US and about 2% of them are done to save the life of the mother or rap. Thats an old argument and most people would agree that those are a different case. I'm not against abortion because I feel it a nessary evil but I'm against tax payer funded abortions.This comes from a person who had a friend die after giving birth.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=firstdown;577014]There are over 1,200,000 abortions a year in the US and about 2% of them are done to save the life of the mother or [B]rap[/B]. Thats an old argument and most people would agree that those are a different case. I'm not against abortion because I feel it a nessary evil but I'm against tax payer funded abortions.This comes from a person who had a friend die after giving birth.[/quote]

The rap game is killing kids?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

Fair enough, and I would somewhat agree. I am just sick of the whole. "Your for abortion" thing.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[B]2. You said thanks for telling you how to spend your money. Isn't that what America does every day by telling countries that they cannot invest in their nuclear programs? You are telling me that I cannot tell you not to drive a V-8 because it is bad for the environment, but you can tell Iran not to make missiles because they are bad for the environment. That's awesome! Who told America that we couldn't make our nuclear missiles and build our nuclear sub marines and power plants? We tell them because we understand the devastation that may come of them just like I understand the devastation by you driving your V-8. So come on Wolfeskis, please don’t drive a V-8 or I will sanction you and plan air strikes against your garage.[/B]

This is what I've been saying for awhile. The Federal Government should leave people alone, at home and abroad.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=jsarno;576032]Most of us know that Obama has done a poor job thus far as president (at least those that are willing to look at things objectively). So to be fair, and objective, what has he done right thus far?

[I]Please note, this is not a bash Obama thread, we could fill up a ton of pages with what he's done wrong, this is purely a thread to show the positive Obama has done to this point...I'm sure Obama has done some good, so here's your chance to voice it.[/I][/quote]

He reads a teleprompter well. That's about it.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;577015]The rap game is killing kids?[/quote]

video games too

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;577035]video games too[/quote]

Damn!

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;577015]The rap game is killing kids?[/quote]Only when kids use it as a gateway into the "thug" life and they take the messages like "get rich or die tryin'" to heart.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=BringBackJoeT;576502]On this note, what would the expectation be for a Catholic president meeting with the Pope? From a starting point, such a meeting would be a meeting of two heads of state (U.S. and Vatican). But, I suppose theoretically, there would be a level of meaning for that particular U.S. president that would transcend politics, and isn't it common for Catholics meeting the Pope to make a sort of gesture? (Kneeling maybe? I honestly don't know.) If it is common for a Catholic to do such a thing, and a president happened to be Catholic and did it, but claimed that it was in his/her "status" as a Catholic, how would people come down on that?[/quote]I'm Catholic, I believe the correct greeting for the Pope is to kneel and kiss his ring. I can't speak for all Catholics, but if it was me as President meeting the Pope, I would greet him as any other head of state, with a handshake. I wouldn't kneel and kiss his ring because as President I would be meeting him as POTUS, not as a "Catholic". Maybe that's just me and I'm completely wrong, but that's what I would do.

Behind closed doors with just the Pope and I, I would show his position the respect all Catholics should. To Catholics this greeting is not to the man but for his position as Christ's ambassador to the world.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;576628]My warrant officer would've had my ass if I had bowed in the way the Japanese did.[/quote]Agreed. It may not be in the UCMJ, but my superiors would've made it very clear that bowing that way is unacceptable.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Angry;576998][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]1. Iraq had nothing to do with the attack on American soil. You cannot fight a war against terrorists on a typical battlefield. The terrorists that attacked the U.S. were sent by a man hiding in Afghanistan. But you are right, Bush had the balls to [B]persuade less intelligent people like you that going into Iraq was what we needed to do.[/B] Now before you start questioning my patriotism, realize that I was there. I could argue on and on about the war, but I would rather point out that you’re a hypocrite.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]A lot more to the [B]Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002[/B] than links to 9/11.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution"]Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]George Tenet (Clinton hold-over) provided the intel to Bush, Colin Powell, Sens. Tom Daschle (sponsor), Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Diane Feinstein, John Kerry, Joe Liberman, Harry Reid, and Jay Rockefeller (Intel Committee) must all be included in the "less intelligent" category too. And Obama must be at least partially included too for voting to approve over $ 300B in funding for the war.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][quote]2. You said thanks for telling you how to spend your money. [B]Isn't that what America does every day by telling countries that they cannot invest in their nuclear programs[/B]?[/quote]No. You may want to read up on the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty"]Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

[quote][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]3. You say that I want money for healthcare and I am for abortion. Let’s get one thing straight. I am for healthcare, but nobody is for abortion! There are just people out there that realize that there are circumstances that exist in which abortion is the lesser of 2 evils. If a woman is raped and she does not want to keep a child...I understand. If the mother has 50% chance of survival and the child has zero...I understand. You guys have to stop thinking in terms of it's this way or that way, and realize the grey areas out there.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]As firstdown mentioned, the VAST majority of abortions are completely voluntary. For those that view abortion as murder, they don't want to be forced to participate or fund abortions through their tax dollars.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][quote]4. Only you can prevent narrow mindedness. Do you really think that by adopting universal healthcare that we would actually allow a person into their 90's to just die? We as a society would not allow this. You guys bitch about how much money Obama is spending and how much is coming out of your pocket and you truly believe that the government is just going to take your money let grandma die? That's good old Republican cynicism at its best. Nothing like some good ole hell and damnation preaching! Grandma is going to be OK, so are your son, your father and anyone else. The good news is that there are also going to be people that never had healthcare before that are going to be OK as well.[/quote][/FONT][/COLOR]When providing treatment is done via a cost-benefit analysis in terms of "life years", then there will be a reduction in services to the elderly and treatments may not be provided that would either enhance life (hip-replacements, etc.) or prolong life (transplants, etc.). I have first hand experience in watching services to my father be reduced when he was forced to transfer from a private insurance plan to Medicare. So don't be naive, reduction in services to the elderly will happen and happens everyday in the UK & Canada.

Good article from the WSJ:

[URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574344900152168372.html"]ObamaCare Will Lead to Rationed Care for Elderly - WSJ.com[/URL]

I'm sure you wouldn't want this in the U.S.
[URL="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6401002.ece"]Elderly left at risk by NHS bidding wars to find cheapest care with reverse auctions - Times Online[/URL]

Also, here is some information on the Complete Lives System and by Emmanuel's own words this system "disrciminates against older people". The "death panel" thing is Glen Beck-esque garbage, but the fact is under a Gov't option services to the elderly will be reduced.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel_J._Emanuel"]Ezekiel J. Emanuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

The framework for the cost-benefit decision-making has already been approved in Obama's stimulus bill:

From the link:
Elderly Hardest Hit
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.
[URL="http://www.medicare.gov/"][COLOR=#0000ff]Medicare[/COLOR][/URL] now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).
The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.
In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its decision.
[URL="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aLzfDxfbwhzs"]Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan: Betsy McCaughey - Bloomberg.com[/URL]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

1. You were dupped, almost everybody was duped, don't get mad at me. I was pissed that we had to be there for some BS. Once we made the mess though, we had to clean it up.

2. They are not following our rules, so we get all huffy and puffy. Yes they signed a treaty so what. It was only supposed to last 25 years. Then it was extended by a "consensus". Were they part of that consensus? Anyway all you did was support my point. We are trying to tell them what they can and cannot do with Nuclear Energy. Not that it is a bad thing. FYI the U.S. is the workhorse of the U.N.

3. If you read my response to Firstdown then you say that I agree with some his sentiments on abortion. I am stating my POV on the subject. My point of view does not believe that all abortions are OK. On the other hand Rowe VS. Wade had cut down on crime. [url=http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_iroe_v_wade/i_abort_crime]Did Roe v. Wade Abort Crime? | The American Prospect[/url]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Impact_of_Legalized_Abortion_on_Crime]The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

4. Don't worry, I will take care of my grandma if Obamacare falters. It's not going to fail. It is a bunch of speculation by a bunch of people who will lose money over the whole ordeal.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Angry;577081]1. You were dupped, almost everybody was duped, don't get mad at me. I was pissed that we had to be there for some BS. Once we made the mess though, we had to clean it up.

2. They are not following our rules, so we get all huffy and puffy. Yes they signed a treaty so what. It was only supposed to last 25 years. Then it was extended by a "consensus". Were they part of that consensus? Anyway all you did was support my point. We are trying to tell them what they can and cannot do with Nuclear Energy. Not that it is a bad thing. FYI the U.S. is the workhorse of the U.N.

3. If you read my response to Firstdown then you say that I agree with some his sentiments on abortion. I am stating my POV on the subject. My point of view does not believe that all abortions are OK. On the other hand Rowe VS. Wade had cut down on crime. [URL="http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_iroe_v_wade/i_abort_crime"]Did Roe v. Wade Abort Crime? | The American Prospect[/URL]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Impact_of_Legalized_Abortion_on_Crime"]The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

4. Don't worry, I will take care of my grandma if Obamacare falters. It's not going to fail. It is a bunch of speculation by a bunch of people who will lose money over the whole ordeal.[/quote]
You say it wont fail because you look at the other goverment programs and see how well they run. Lets look at the post office ops bad choice. How about SS ops bad choice. Lets see what program does the goverment run that has stayed within budget and runs great. Hmmm, nothing. It would stay afloat with the tax payers bailing it out but I think they will need to get a faster clock.[URL="http://www.usdebtclock.org/"]U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time[/URL]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Angry;577081]1. You were dupped, almost everybody was duped, don't get mad at me. I was pissed that we had to be there for some BS. Once we made the mess though, we had to clean it up.[/quote]I wish I had the foresight you have. When you have the lottery numbers and ATS picks for each week let me know.

[quote]2. They are not following our rules, so we get all huffy and puffy. Yes they signed a treaty so what. It was only supposed to last 25 years. Then it was extended by a "consensus". Were they part of that consensus? Anyway all you did was support my point. We are trying to tell them what they can and cannot do with Nuclear Energy. Not that it is a bad thing. FYI the U.S. is the workhorse of the U.N.[/quote]We, as in the U.S. unilaterally, isn't telling them anything. We as in the international community (which libs love so much) are telling them. And yes the U.S. is the primary funding for the UN, big mistake IMO for an organization which is more often than not against US interests.

[quote]4. Don't worry, I will take care of my grandma if Obamacare falters. It's not going to fail. It is a bunch of speculation by a bunch of people who will lose money over the whole ordeal.[/quote]Hopefully it never gets passed with any gov't option.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;577043]Agreed. It may not be in the UCMJ, but my superiors would've made it very clear that bowing that way is unacceptable.[/quote]

You're telling me that if you were stationed in Japan and a local person bowed you wouldn't reciprocate? Not bowing is not only acceptable but preferred by superiors? How vile, especially coming from people who value and fight for their traditions and way of life. I suppose one can not expect certain men to be wise, fortunately U.S. commanders and generals have traditionally [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUST8360820080403"]showed respect to Japanese customs[/URL] even under disgraceful circumstance.

[quote]Rear Admiral James Kelly, the top U.S. naval commander in Japan, bowed and apologized to the mayor of Yokosuka City, where the U.S. navy is headquartered. U.S. ambassador Thomas Schieffer expressed condolences and regret.[/quote]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Angry;577081]4. Don't worry, I will take care of my grandma if Obamacare falters.[/quote]Then what's the point of giving $$$ and control of the U.S. health care system over to the Fed Gov't if you have to then "take care of grandma". If you want to give more $$$ and control of your family's health care to the gov't, have at it. Me, I'll keep my $$$ and control of my family's health care in the private sector, thank you.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=saden1;577099]You're telling me that if you were stationed in Japan and a local person bowed you wouldn't reciprocate? Not bowing is not only acceptable but preferred by superiors? How vile, especially coming from people who value and fight for their traditions and way of life. I suppose one can not expect certain men to be wise, fortunately U.S. commanders and generals have traditionally [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUST8360820080403"]showed respect to Japanese customs[/URL] even under disgraceful circumstance.[/quote]I was stationed in Japan for 3 years. Huge difference in returning a bow to another citizen, which I did often, and bowing (especially as POTUS) to a monarch or king. In this instance the US commander was bowing to show remorse and regret, which he should've in this circumstance. Someone under his command disgraced him and the entire U.S. Obama has NOTHING to bow to any foreign leader for (I know we've gone down this road before so rather than the page long responses let me summarize: saden: The U.S. has many things to be ashamed of. SS33: The U.S. is the greatest country on earth. Both posts contain YouTube clips and links to various sites backing up each point)

In meeting with anyone from another government I would shake hands but never bow (and certainly not hold hands and kiss either). In the Far East I would return a bow, but not bow first.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

I fanally thought of something Obama has done good.

Getting people to show up to local town hall meetings.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=firstdown;576965]From what I have read in the post here people are not saying he hates America because he was not born here[/quote]

Ok, that wasn't the impression I got from this post

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/576518-post73.html[/url]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=saden1;577099]You're telling me that if you were stationed in Japan and a local person bowed you wouldn't reciprocate? Not bowing is not only acceptable but preferred by superiors? How vile, especially coming from [B]people who value and fight for their traditions and way of life[/B]. I suppose one can not expect certain men to be wise, fortunately U.S. commanders and generals have traditionally [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUST8360820080403"]showed respect to Japanese customs[/URL] even under disgraceful circumstance.[/quote]

Flush your head out new guy. You think this is about freedom? This is a slaughter. If I'm going to get my balls blown off for a word, then my word is puntang.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=firstdown;577088]You say it wont fail because you look at the other goverment programs and see how well they run. Lets look at the post office ops bad choice. How about SS ops bad choice. Lets see what program does the goverment run that has stayed within budget and runs great. Hmmm, nothing. It would stay afloat with the tax payers bailing it out but I think they will need to get a faster clock.[URL="http://www.usdebtclock.org/"]U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time[/URL][/quote]

Enlighten me. What is wrong with the postal system? Does your mail not get delivered in a timely manner. Does your grandmothers mail not arrive because it would be a waste of time for her to look at it because her eye sight is so bad? I would ask similar questions about SS but there are a couple of serious issues there. On the bright side though, it still pays out when it is supposed to. The problem is that it pays out when it isn't supposed to as well.I do not see the federal govt using universal healthcare as a personal piggy bank like they did with SS. And if they do, they should go to prison for embesslement.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;577116]I was stationed in Japan for 3 years. Huge difference in returning a bow to another citizen, which I did often, and bowing (especially as POTUS) to a monarch or king. In this instance the US commander was bowing to show remorse and regret, which he should've in this circumstance. Someone under his command disgraced him and the entire U.S. Obama has NOTHING to bow to any foreign leader for (I know we've gone down this road before so rather than the page long responses let me summarize: saden: The U.S. has many things to be ashamed of. SS33: The U.S. is the greatest country on earth. Both posts contain YouTube clips and links to various sites backing up each point)

In meeting with anyone from another government I would shake hands but never bow (and certainly not hold hands and kiss either). In the Far East I would return a bow, but not bow first.[/quote]

My post was in response to TTL post that indicated that his superior and himself (admittedly surmised from his previous posts and his general dickishness) viewed bowing as unacceptable proposition under any circumstance which you voiced as agreeable. Clearly, by your response, you don't seem to share this view and so I am left confused as to what you find agreeable.

Bowing in apology is acceptable but bowing in pleasantries is not? Would you think it acceptable if Obama (the commander in chief) bowed to the same mayor, prime minister or emperor of Japan under similar circumstance of remorse?

When in foreign lands wise men show the utmost deference to other cultures and their customs even if one perceives such endeavor to be embracing and shameful for to do otherwise is ultimately acting against ones own self-interest. Do not limit yourself to simply returning a bow my friend. Perhaps knowing [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowing"]what bowing is[/URL] and its significance in different cultures might be helpful assessing its permissibility and irrelevance of order of bowing which you find virtuous.

p.s. What does the Office of Protocol say about the Commander in Chief and citizens not bowing to heads of states (monarch or otherwise), where can I find the protocol text?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=saden1;577149]My post was in response to TTL post that indicated that his superior and himself (admittedly surmised from his previous posts and his general dickishness) viewed bowing as unacceptable proposition under any circumstance which you voiced as agreeable. Clearly, by your response, you don't seem to share this view and so I am left confused as to what you find agreeable.[/quote]I was interpreting TTE's response as in reference to the POTUS's deep bow (much like a Japanese bow), maybe I missed or misinterpreted something.

[quote]Bowing in apology is acceptable but bowing in pleasantries is not? Would you think it acceptable if Obama (the commander in chief) bowed to the same mayor, prime minister or emperor of Japan under similar circumstance of remorse?[/quote]The difference is in the situation. Bowing as a civilian in a non-offical capacity to another civilian in a foreign land is completely acceptable. But Obama isn't a civilian for at least the next 3 1/2 years, he's the POTUS and Commander in Chief. As Commander in Chief, no, he shouldn't bow in remorse IMO, nor should the Secretary of State, a lower level official like the regional or base commander, fine.

[quote]When in foreign lands wise men show the utmost deference to other cultures and their customs even if one perceives such endeavor to be embracing and shameful for to do otherwise is ultimately acting against ones own self-interest. Do not limit yourself to simply returning a bow my friend. Perhaps knowing [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowing"]what bowing is[/URL] and its significance in different cultures might be helpful assessing its permissibility and irrelevance of order of bowing which you find virtuous.[/quote]Thanks for the info, but again what a civilian does in a social setting isn't comparable to bowing in deference or submissiveness to any foreign gov't official or monarch/king. If that makes me unwise to only bow before the Pope and the Eucharist, then I guess I am unwise.

[quote]p.s. What does the Office of Protocol say about the Commander in Chief and citizens not bowing to heads of states (monarch or otherwise), where can I find the protocol text?[/quote]Working on it.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

This is reaching "Tom Brady's body language is bad" territory.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;577153]I was interpreting TTE's response as in reference to the POTUS's deep bow (much like a Japanese bow), maybe I missed or misinterpreted something.

The difference is in the situation. Bowing as a civilian in a non-offical capacity to another civilian in a foreign land is completely acceptable. But Obama isn't a civilian for at least the next 3 1/2 years, he's the POTUS and Commander in Chief. As Commander in Chief, [B]no, he shouldn't bow in remorse IMO[/B], nor should the Secretary of State, a lower level official like the regional or base commander, fine.

Thanks for the info, but again what a civilian does in a social setting isn't comparable to bowing in deference or submissiveness to any foreign gov't official or monarch/king. If that makes me unwise to only bow before the Pope and the Eucharist, then I guess I am unwise.

Working on it.[/quote]

And so I am left to ask why you feel this way. Why do you find it palatable in one instance and not at all in another? Is it merely due to the importance of the individual in question and what they represent? If this is the case you espouse the very thing you detest in the symbolism of bowing (servility and the inequality of men).

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=saden1;577149]My post was in response to TTL post that indicated [B]that his superior and himself [/B](admittedly surmised from his previous posts and his general dickishness) viewed bowing as unacceptable proposition under any circumstance which you voiced as agreeable. Clearly, by your response, you don't seem to share this view and so I am left confused as to what you find agreeable.

Bowing in apology is acceptable but bowing in pleasantries is not? Would you think it acceptable if Obama (the commander in chief) bowed to the same mayor, prime minister or emperor of Japan under similar circumstance of remorse?

When in foreign lands wise men show the utmost deference to other cultures and their customs even if one perceives such endeavor to be embracing and shameful for to do otherwise is ultimately acting against ones own self-interest. Do not limit yourself to simply returning a bow my friend. Perhaps knowing [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowing"]what bowing is[/URL] and its significance in different cultures might be helpful assessing its permissibility and irrelevance of order of bowing which you find virtuous.

p.s. What does the Office of Protocol say about the Commander in Chief and citizens not bowing to heads of states (monarch or otherwise), where can I find the protocol text?[/quote]

We were representatives of the U.S. We weren't two schmucks on a fishing trip. I'm working on finding you that info. Many have alluded to the UCMJ which I did not. That is used to presecute more than to outline behavior from what I can remember. Had I bowed I would've probably been brought up on conduct unbecoming of an NCO. It wouldn't have been a huge offense. I'm looking through the Armed Forces Code of Conduct.

You are coming from a different frame of mind than some of the people who understand what I'm saying. What I am saying is this, there is no such thing as moral / cultural relativism for public officials. These are not expatriates doing as Romans would. This has nothing to do with respecting another's countries traditions.

I'll bet my bottom dollar we don't serve Saudi Princes N.C style BBQ for state functions. We do on the other hand make Muslim women take off their veils for official documents. They cannot have driver's licenses looking like ninjas just because it's part of their culture. I'm unfamiliar with the law, but I'm guessing I'd not be allowed to brew up Christmas Ale in Dubai.

As for that Naval Officer who bowed, well I've no opinion on that. My gut tells me he was probably apologizing for some drunken serviceman, but I don't know? When I was in the big honcho for the Navy blew his brains out because he wore some ribbons that weren't awarded to him. What can I say? Squids are strange.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

If Obama wants to repair an image, he should do so with people who matter.

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Re: What has Obama done well?
 

Clearly, we should all seek our answers to "Bowgate" from an expert:

[url=http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns/missmanners/story/695567.html]Protocol for heads of state : Miss Manners : The Buffalo News[/url]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

Prophetic wisdom............

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;577173]Clearly, we should all seek our answers to "Bowgate" from an expert:

[url=http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns/missmanners/story/695567.html]Protocol for heads of state : Miss Manners : The Buffalo News[/url][/quote]Miss Manners looks like Norman Bates in his mother's wig. I don't trust "her".

[IMG]http://media.buffalonews.com/static/images/writers/miss_manners.jpg[/IMG]

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

^^ You know what? I want to see a birth certificate.

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;577169]If Obama wants to repair an image, he should do so with people who matter.

[yt]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x1C_NWMRs8Q&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x1C_NWMRs8Q&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt][/quote]


Repair his image? With whom?

Re: What has Obama done well?
 

[quote=12thMan;577200]Repair his image? With whom?[/quote]

The poor soul is confused as always, he is unable do the necessary calculation required to conclude that it's not a snub but rather an introduction of the American delegation to the Russian president (quite obvious by the last handshake).