Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I just read where Kelly said the funny thing about that first pass of the game, him and JC hadn't even practiced that play. He said they'll practice it and they'll get it right.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I'm willing to show extra patience for JC. I (we) know he put in tons of time and hard work over the off-season. We know he works closely w/ Jim Zorn every day, who took Hasselbeck from mediocre to elite status. And we know JC seems to be a rhythm type of QB...he needs to stay out there and "reestablish" his comfort level seemingly every game, which is part of why I think our offense has often been totally anemic in the first qtr since JC became our starter.

So then my complaints are: outside of the running game and some improved pass blocking our offense looks like it just doesn't practice together much. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I've said it over and over to myself the last couple of years. Yes Kelly got some nice separation before Jason threw the bomb too short. But generally I don't see our WR getting much of any separation from the defenders. I don't see Jason attempt to fire a laser into the brief openings we see. Basically this offense looks like it doesn't know what the hell it's doing IMO. I'd appreciate some truly insightful comments by the gurus - not bs stats, no offense to those stats lovers - that address why we rarely see our WRs wide open in the flat or sandwiched between the CB and S. I hope I'm making sense here. For example, while Batch didn't exactly light it up, at least a handful of times you see him get a little time and suddenly there's a pretty open target...Batch lasers the ball in and shazzam you have a completion. In our offense I rarely see that kind of separation, regardless of the time JC gets back there, and then of course it's a rarity to see him laser the ball to anyone, ever.

Thoughts?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

This is my first post here but I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments. I live in St. Louis and have been discussing the Redskins quarterbacking with another big Skins fan. We don't recall seeing Campbell call an audible all last season. Does Zorn allow Jason to call audibles?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Lotus;579049]My take on JC is that the ball is coming out faster this preseason.[/quote]

Thats funny because when I watched Colt & Chase it seems like the ball was coming out so much quicker than JC. I kept saying that if JC could get the ball out as fast as those 2 he'd be a better QB.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Lotus;578707]I liked the deep pass play calls. They created a vertical aspect for the offense even though they were incomplete. We've been so conservative for so long, I think it is good to do things to keep safeties from cheating towards the line of scrimmage.[/quote]


how you can find anything positive out of the passing game is a little weird. i've been saying it for over 2 years now...JC is not a starting QB in the NFL. his performance was pathetic

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

This is all that needs to be said about how JC has played:

4 of 13
30.8 comp. %
3.7 per att
43.1 rating

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Kinda silly to draw any hard conclusions on 13 pass attempts.

Need to see more, a lot more.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Okay, everybody take a deep breath...HOLD IT!!!

IT'S JUST PRESEASON!!!

The purpose of preseason is to get read for the regular season and to evaluate talent. It's nothing more than scrimmage in game conditions. Obviously you want everyone to look like they are in mid season form but the reality is they are not. You want no major injuries. You want to see good tempo on offense and tenacity on defense. I think we saw both this past game, not against the Ravens. It is too early for a quarterback controversy. If there is any controversy, it would be third string quarterback. I know there is a lot of love for Colt, but he is committing too many mistakes. Collins is a career backup for a reason. Good asset for the team but he is not the guy to lead us for the entire year. Get off Campbell back and let him play!

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Look JC has always been a 60+completion guy. This is tested throughout 35 starts! He isn't going to regress to less than 50% over one game. Geez, calm down and don't get your panties in a bunch.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Well he only has 5 games to show an improvement from last year...

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=firstdown;579120]This is all that needs to be said about how JC has played:

4 of 13
30.8 comp. %
3.7 per att
43.1 rating[/quote]

Yes its preseason, but find another starting QB with stats like these. I think everyone is saying the things that they say because they see JC play like this meanwhile other starting QB's are coming out in limited action and putting points on the board. Pennington,Garrard,Ryan,Rodgers hell even J Russell got his team in the endzone.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Starters other than JC with a preseason QB rating less than 70

Kyle Orton
Kurt Warner
Trent Edwards
Carson Palmer
Kerry Collins

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;579135]Starters other than JC with a preseason QB rating less than 70

Kyle Orton
Kurt Warner
Trent Edwards
Carson Palmer
Kerry Collins[/quote]

Are any in the 40's??

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;579136]Are any in the 40's??[/quote]

Do you believe JC's will be in the 40's during the regular season?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=redskins1974;579091]how you can find anything positive out of the passing game is a little weird. i've been saying it for[B] over 2 years now[/B]...JC is not a starting QB in the NFL. his performance was pathetic[/quote]So you jumped to a conclusion, essentially? That's what you're telling us?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;579136]Are any in the 40's??[/quote]

actually yeah, a few of them are very close

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;579137]Do you believe JC's will be in the 40's during the regular season?[/quote]

Im talking right now, yes its preseason. but it does raise a concern when most of the other starting QB's can go out there and face these vanilla defenses and can put up points while we struggle. we will see how he does this week but to this point the performance has been piss poor.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;578991]At this rate 2 or 3. I think thats enough games for him to show something and yet still early enough to salvage the season.[/quote]Under what crazy bizarre scenario could our team struggle so badly to get Campbell benched after three games, and how exactly would putting in one of our other QBs that no one else wants salvage anything?

Campbell is literally the only chance this team has. If they really can't win with him, then the team is too flawed to win, pure and simple. It's a 5-11 season if we have Collins/Brennan start 12+ games.

Is that where we are, assuming that the season has already been wasted?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;579140]actually yeah, a few of them are very close[/quote]

Ok, from highest to lowest of the ones you named plus JC. how does he rate among them?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=Mattyk72;579135]Starters other than JC with a preseason QB rating less than 70

Kyle Orton
Kurt Warner
Trent Edwards
Carson Palmer
Kerry Collins[/quote]

Take Orton his rating is down because he has thrown 4 ints. which are not good but that tells me he is trying to make plays. I'd rather JC have a few ints. trying to make plays then having nothing from him and at this point in preseason that what we have. Maybe its the preasure on him to preform and he has not seen enough playing time to shake of the nerves but right now QB is my biggest worry.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I could expect a bad game vs the Gmen, but yeah if he struggles the next 3 games against teams that we should beat then yes there is a decision to be made.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=firstdown;579150]Take Orton his rating is down because he has thrown 4 ints. which are not good but that tells me he is trying to make plays. I'd rather JC have a few ints. trying to make plays then having nothing from him and at this point in preseason that what we have. Maybe its the preasure on him to preform and he has not seen enough playing time to shake of the nerves but right now QB is my biggest worry.[/quote]Orton has thrown 4 INTs because he sucks. Let's not spin a positive out of a negative here. He's not being any more aggressive than Campbell, he's just in a new offense [B]for the first time in his professional career[/B], and he's getting picked off every time he goes to his third read.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=firstdown;579150]Take Orton his rating is down because he has thrown 4 ints. which are not good but that tells me he is trying to make plays. I'd rather JC have a few ints. trying to make plays then having nothing from him and at this point in preseason that what we have. Maybe its the preasure on him to preform and he has not seen enough playing time to shake of the nerves but right now QB is my biggest worry.[/quote]

HEY MAN!! Get off of Orton's back. Dont you know he is in a NEW OFFENSE :)

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Here's the thing: In 2006, Campbell was a competent option to Brunell should the season go south with Brunell behind center. When we lost 6 of our first 9 games, moving to Campbell didn't salvage anything, but it offered a use of the end of the season for developmental purposes.

If we're as bad as we were in 2006, then Colt or Chase will get some starts in a lost season. But then again, if we're as bad as in 2006, Campbell can't be blamed for that. He didn't get worse in the offseason from our last two seasons of 9 and 8 wins. Obviously, the problems would lie elsewhere.

If we go 8-8 again, and Campbell's numbers are pedestrian, then yeah, you can probably conclude that we botched his development, and that it's time to move on.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=firstdown;579150]Take Orton his rating is down because he has thrown 4 ints. which are not good but that tells me he is trying to make plays. I'd rather JC have a few ints. trying to make plays then having nothing from him and at this point in preseason that what we have. Maybe its the preasure on him to preform and he has not seen enough playing time to shake of the nerves but right now QB is my biggest worry.[/quote]

So, essentially, if the two deep balls had been picked off you would've felt better?

For a lot of people on this board, Jason was too conservative. He took two shots in 7 attempts on Saturday...I'm pretty sure he was trying to make a play. 2 of the other incompletions were screens he basically grounded because he was smart enough to not make a bad play turn out worse. Also, the 1 completion he had was on a 3rd and relatively long which immediately followed a completion that was called back because of an illegal shift (or formation). I don't quite understand how he wasn't trying to make a play in that situation.

I'm not thrilled with the way he performed, but to say "Orton's rating is down because he's throwing picks, trying to make plays" is just a dumb statement. That implies you'd be happier if Jason were throwing picks. He took 2 shots out of 7 Saturday, I'm pretty sure that's trying to make plays.

By this logic those 2 out of 7 imply that the Redskins are going to throw deep over 28% of the time this season and they'll never complete any of them. See how far assumptions based off of a limited sample size go?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I've defended Campbell tooth and nail since we drafted him. Yes he had a solid start to last year, but has otherwise been unimpressive. The time is now Jason. I'm not gonna scream for your head after a few preseason games, but the "give him time" excuse runs out on the first snap of week 1. This is it buddy.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=jdlea;579160]By this logic those 2 out of 7 imply that the Redskins are going to throw deep over 28% of the time this season and they'll never complete any of them. See how far assumptions based off of a limited sample size go?[/quote]Excellent summary.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

BTW, the difference between Jay Cutler and a "disasterous" preseason with 2 INTs and 3 dropped INTs is that a former Redskins practice squad-er layed out and made a beautiful catch on a 47 yard Cutler deep ball. He's struggling in his new offense as well.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I didn't read all of the posts in this thread, but enough of them to see how its more posts by those that are anti JC, or don't believe he's a franchise qb, rather than how he did saturday, in only 7 passes.

I'm a JC fan, so I want to say he did alright. Objectively, Zorn complimented his decisions & said that he's got to make that play to santana. JC himself said last week that sometimes he's gonna put it up there to let the wr make a play, i.e. take some chances. That's what that first deep ball was, gave Kelly a shot. Of course it was underthrown, but not a "bad" pass IMO given the circumstances.

He may not ever be a really accurate qb, but if he consistently makes decisions as well as he did saturday, he'll be accurate enough to win games.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Nobody panics around here do they?

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=53Fan;579170]Nobody panics around here do they?[/quote]

We're as cool as the other side of the pillow.
- Stuart Scott, ESPN

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Yeah Cutler will struggle this yr, not as much for being in the new offense but for lack of wr's. Other than Hester who is a project wr i cant name one. I know they drafted Iglasias and maybe he can help but its not a stellar group of targets by any means. He has a good TE and he has a nice young RB but thats about it. Our wr corps is head and shoulders above what Chicago has.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GMScud;579161]I've defended Campbell tooth and nail since we drafted him. Yes he had a solid start to last year, but has otherwise been unimpressive. The time is now Jason. I'm not gonna scream for your head after a few preseason games, but the "give him time" excuse runs out on the first snap of week 1. This is it buddy.[/quote]

Agreed. And those defending or attacking him based on his seven passes on Saturday are not looking at the whole picture. This is, dare I say it, just like Patrick Ramsey all over again. Where he ended 2004 ok and you wanted to see that next summer/fall some growth and it wasn't totally there. To me, the same situation is happening right now with Campbell. Yes he made some smart decisions but on the surface he's not necessarily a better QB than he was when last season ended. Can he still be a franchise QB? Absolutely. Is it fatalistic to think this is as good as it gets for Campbell?. Not at all.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=53Fan;579170]Nobody panics around here do they?[/quote]

And I thought the offseason was bad.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=GTripp0012;579164]BTW, the difference between Jay Cutler and a "disasterous" preseason with 2 INTs and 3 dropped INTs is that a former Redskins practice squad-er layed out and made a beautiful catch on a 47 yard Cutler deep ball. He's struggling in his new offense as well.[/quote]
I read the press and was thinking how great Cutler was doing. Then I watched some of the game, and in the same drive that had that catch, Cutler hit a Giants LB square in the hands, and he dropped it. Could absolutely have been a pick six, at the worst the Giants have the ball at the Bears 35. And another INT was cancelled due to a penalty away from the play.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

I think what confuses me is here we have one of the worst scoring offenses in the NFL and the 1st team offense isn't getting a lot of game reps. The running game doesn't really need a lot of work IMO so no need to be running Mason a ton. It's pre season so throw the ball and work on the weakness of the offense. Sorry Zorn but JC needs the work or he needs more than 7 attempts.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

^^ i didnt get to watch the whole game and even then it was on a crappy tv with no audio but i was surprised to see JC only had 7 pass attempts compared to romo, hassleback and others who had 20 + pass attempts.

why was this?

i did get to see JC hold onto the ball on a 3rd and something deep in our territory. the O line gave him all day (probably b/c the defense dropped back and didnt brin extra guys) but it was frustrating to see JC just sit there nad hold onto the ball. im guessing no one was wide open = JC doesnt throw you the ball.

im not to worried. the O has to be better than last year, the D certainly should be.

go skins!!

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Is it me or does Collins seem to get the ball out quicker and anticipate wr's coming out of their breaks better than JC does. Just an observation.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

[quote=skinsfan69;579190]Is it me or does Collins seem to get the ball out quicker and anticipate wr's coming out of their breaks better than JC does. Just an observation.[/quote]

And a good observation it is.

Re: "Jason Campbell struggles against the Steelers"
 

Relax it's preseason JC is the answer & if it turns out he isn't were in trouble if you think Colt or Chase are ready child please. Zorn has JC doing certain things. This Friday i think we will see at least 10 points by the 1st string OF. JC is the man relax he's going to be our QB for yrs to come.