Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

I do think that Campbell's deep ball accuracy is quite overrated, and that's fair game to criticize him over.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

JC's first pass as a pro was a deep ball that hit Brandon Lloyd right in the hands.....and he dropped it. Doesn't seem like JC had too many opportunities after that. I agree with 12thMan, maybe he'll get better the more it's part of the gameplan. I doubt he practices a lot of plays that are not gonna be called. He does seem a little off.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

I'll offer another possible anti-Campbell argument. Not one that I necessarily agree with, but since we're going to debate the QB position anyway, somebody's got to make the argument against (and SCSkinsfan can't be here all the time).

He's been victimized by drops throughout his career. Just victimized. But, what if what we perceive as being dropped passes are actually plays that Campbell's timing was off on and the end game was a dropped pass.

Specifically, (and not that this was Campbell's fault) the Devin Thomas drop in the end zone occured mostly because (in my opinion) the Rams won the play up to that point. They took away the first two options on the play (Portis and either Cooley/ARE, tough to tell exactly), and got pressure on the quarterback. While I think Thomas could have been quicker to flash in the hole in the coverage, Campbell's throw was low because it had to be low.

So Thomas gets blame for dropping a ball that hit him in the hands, and cost the team a TD. But while we say, "that's another dropped pass that's killing our quarterback" the drop itself was due in part to being a complete last-chance option on the play. In this case, it's not the quarterback being completely victimized, it's just a defensive win on third down.

So while that play was hardly Campbell's fault, the consistently high dropped pass totals is probably partially attributable to the quarterback. In the same way that interceptions are rarely 100% the fault of the QB, dropped passes may be less than 100% the fault of the receiver.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=53Fan;595643]JC's first pass as a pro was a deep ball that hit Brandon Lloyd right in the hands.....and he dropped it. Doesn't seem like JC had too many opportunities after that. I agree with 12thMan, maybe he'll get better the more it's part of the gameplan. I doubt he practices a lot of plays that are not gonna be called. He does seem a little off.[/quote]The other thing is that defenses in the NFL today are notoriously conservative. You think there's a reason no one ever goes deep against our defense? It's not because we have an elite secondary, it's because we'll give them the short stuff but take away the long stuff.

Conseqently, going deep for the sake of going deep is usually a horrible offensive strategy. The teams that can push the ball downfield can do so because they can put safeties in a bind with complex down field routes. If you have Larry Fitzgerald and Steve Breaston, you can specifically choose to attack a safety who you deem to be not a great coverage player by trying to get him to bite on a shorter route. In fact, this is exactly what the Cards did to Landry last year, and the result was Fitzgerald vs. Doughty 1-on-1.

If you don't have those guys though, you have to be able to pick your spots. We have the ability to get downfield passes if we can catch the other team in a blitz or something, but when you only have 3-4 oppertunities a game to actually get a play downfield, a lot can go wrong on those plays to give you zero deep ball production.

The short versions of the prior three paragraphs is that we just aren't a great deep ball team, and most of our really big plays in the passing game come on screens.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

I was wondering about the drops. It does seem like his receivers drop a lot of his throws. I think that is what excites me about Kelly the most, because he doesn't seem to drop any thrown his way.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=GTripp0012;595647]I'll offer another possible anti-Campbell argument. Not one that I necessarily agree with, but since we're going to debate the QB position anyway, somebody's got to make the argument against (and SCSkinsfan can't be here all the time).

He's been victimized by drops throughout his career. Just victimized. But, what if what we perceive as being dropped passes are actually plays that Campbell's timing was off on and the end game was a dropped pass.

Specifically, (and not that this was Campbell's fault) the Devin Thomas drop in the end zone occured mostly because (in my opinion) the Rams won the play up to that point. They took away the first two options on the play (Portis and either Cooley/ARE, tough to tell exactly), and got pressure on the quarterback. While I think Thomas could have been quicker to flash in the hole in the coverage, Campbell's throw was low because it had to be low.

So Thomas gets blame for dropping a ball that hit him in the hands, and cost the team a TD. But while we say, "that's another dropped pass that's killing our quarterback" the drop itself was due in part to being a complete last-chance option on the play. In this case, it's not the quarterback being completely victimized, it's just a defensive win on third down.

So while that play was hardly Campbell's fault, the consistently high dropped pass totals is probably partially attributable to the quarterback. In the same way that interceptions are rarely 100% the fault of the QB, dropped passes may be less than 100% the fault of the receiver.[/quote]

Good receivers catch the ball whether it is a perfect throw or not. If its within your reach you should make the catch. If it is in your hands you should make the catch. No matter the touch on the ball or the velocity. That's why the players get game checks. That's what they are payed to do. So if the throw is out of reach fine. But if not they need to make the catch. If not they need to find another job. Emphasis on the words "[B]dropped[/B] passes". Case closed.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;595653]Good receivers catch the ball whether it is a perfect throw or not. If its within you reach you shoudl make the catch. If it is in your hands you should make the catch. No matter the touch on the ball or the velocity. That's why the players get game checks. Tha'ts what they are payed to do. So if the throw is out of reach fine. But if not they need to make the catch. If not they need to find another job. Case closed.[/quote]Well, yeah. We also don't exactly have a plethora of good receivers. And like I've said, what Campbell has been able to do in spite of having more than one or two NFL quality receivers is pretty remarkable.

I'm just suggesting that, while bad players will drop more passes than good players, it's probably simplistic to think that a drop is 100% the receivers' fault and no one else.

But, I think you and I are on the same side of this issue. While we might have an issue with Campbell and dropped passes, the truth is the players he's been playing with just haven't been very good.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=GTripp0012;595647]I'll offer another possible anti-Campbell argument. Not one that I necessarily agree with, but since we're going to debate the QB position anyway, somebody's got to make the argument against (and SCSkinsfan can't be here all the time).

He's been victimized by drops throughout his career. Just victimized. But, what if what we perceive as being dropped passes are actually plays that Campbell's timing was off on and the end game was a dropped pass.

Specifically, (and not that this was Campbell's fault) the Devin Thomas drop in the end zone occured mostly because (in my opinion) the Rams won the play up to that point. They took away the first two options on the play (Portis and either Cooley/ARE, tough to tell exactly), and got pressure on the quarterback. While I think Thomas could have been quicker to flash in the hole in the coverage, Campbell's throw was low because it had to be low.

So Thomas gets blame for dropping a ball that hit him in the hands, and cost the team a TD. But while we say, "that's another dropped pass that's killing our quarterback" the drop itself was due in part to being a complete last-chance option on the play. In this case, it's not the quarterback being completely victimized, it's just a defensive win on third down.

So while that play was hardly Campbell's fault, the consistently high dropped pass totals is probably partially attributable to the quarterback. [B] In the same way that interceptions are rarely 100% the fault of the QB, dropped passes may be less than 100% the fault of the receiver[/B].[/quote]

I can agree with that. In the case of Thomas, it was catchable, but difficult. To take this in a different direction, JC threw it in the split second opportunity he had. If he didn't attempt the throw wouldn't that be perceived as being too cautious? I mostly agree with the thinking that if a receiver gets his hands on the ball, he should catch it. Of course some passes are harder to catch than others but most of the drops ( They're only considered drops if the receiver gets his hands on it) were catchable.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=53Fan;595658]I can agree with that. In the case of Thomas, it was catchable, but difficult. To take this in a different direction, JC threw it in the split second opportunity he had. [B]If he didn't attempt the throw wouldn't that be perceived as being too cautious?[/B] I mostly agree with the thinking that if a receiver gets his hands on the ball, he should catch it. Of course some passes are harder to catch than others but most of the drops ( They're only considered drops if the receiver gets his hands on it) were catchable.[/quote]Probably. It's hard to say anymore. Clearly though, it was worth the shot. The only risk was that it bounces off of his body and gets intercepted...which actually almost happened. But that's exactly the kind of risk that you have to be willing to take.

Fans who suggest he should throw into tight coverage are just being naive. But it'd be a different issue if he refused to throw those low (or mid)-risk, high-reward passes because things might go wrong.

I think all drops are catchable passes, but I guess my bigger point is that perhaps just because a pass is "catchable" doesn't mean it necessarily going to be caught. If that was true, you could say that any WR who ever dropped a pass lacks focus and shouldn't play in this league. But then we'd have to break out the 3 TE offense.

Braylon Edwards led the NFL in drops last year by a hefty margin, but now with Derek Anderson temporarily out of the picture, he's actually having a really good start for an offense that is otherwise terrible. Brady Quinn hasn't had any success throwing to anyone else though, but I think that's because of the Robert Royal curse ;)

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;595653]Good receivers catch the ball whether it is a perfect throw or not. If its within your reach you should make the catch. If it is in your hands you should make the catch. No matter the touch on the ball or the velocity. That's why the players get game checks. That's what they are payed to do. So if the throw is out of reach fine. But if not they need to make the catch. If not they need to find another job. Emphasis on the words "[B]dropped[/B] passes". Case closed.[/quote]

Agreed. A drop is a drop. No need to over analyze it. Campbell can't throw the ball and catch it for the receiver. I've seen Campbell, contrary to belief by some, place countless balls right in the receivers mitts only to see it hit the ground and chalked up as incomplete. How many times last year and the year before have we seen comments posted here on Warpath, if so and so had "caught that ball" or held onto that ball...

Cooley is about the only sure handed weapon we have right now.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=GTripp0012;595657]Well, yeah. [B]We also don't exactly have a plethora of good receivers.[/B] And like I've said, what Campbell has been able to do in spite of having more than one or two NFL quality receivers is pretty remarkable.[/quote]We've got Devin Thomas, he's going to be AWESOME!! Don't you agree GTripp? :silly:

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;595671]We've got Devin Thomas, he's going to be AWESOME!! Don't you agree GTripp? :silly:[/quote]Everyone is awesome at something.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

If the receivers don't drop as many passes and therefore JC's comp.% and # of TD passes go up, is he a better QB? Or was he good to begin with?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

The REDSKINS are CLOSE, to playing lions tomorrow.....it's only a few hours away!

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

I really think that the Skins can/will open up the points this week. In my FFL, I am starting JC over P Manning against the Cards. Lets give them a really good thrashing this week, and remind them that they are 19-0.

HTTR!

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

gotta say that's a lot of confidence, even more than I have, in JC and our receivers. I would expect Peyton to put up gawdy numbers tomorrow. Warner may as well.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

Realistically, a 3 TD day from Campbell is not out of the question. But how often would you bet against a multi-TD day from Manning? Never?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

Indy at Arizona... hmmm. Might be a few TD's thrown in that game. Then again, I'm expecting JC to eat the Detroit "D" up.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=53Fan;595674]If the receivers don't drop as many passes and therefore JC's comp.% and # of TD passes go up, is he a better QB? Or was he good to begin with?[/quote]

You could also say that Campbell isn't throwing receiver friendly balls.

Granted every receiver should catch anything that he can touch with both of his hands but some QBs probably throw a more catchable ball than others.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;595692]You could also say that Campbell isn't throwing receiver friendly balls.

Granted every receiver should catch anything that he can touch with both of his hands but some QBs probably throw a more catchable ball than others.[/quote]

do you think there is a difference between Campbells game day passes and practice passes? I know these guys catch balls in practice, so how much different can they be in the game?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=hagams;595677]I really think that the Skins can/will open up the points this week. In my FFL, I am starting JC over P Manning against the Cards. Lets give them a really good thrashing this week, and remind them that they are 19-0.

HTTR![/quote]

There's a fine line between courageous and stupid...you just shattered that line with an inaccurate deep pass.

That's great that you think that but please make a QB adjustment before the game starts. I have P. Manning in my league and as they say...always start your high draft picks no matter who they play.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;595693]do you think there is a difference between Campbells game day passes and practice passes? I know these guys catch balls in practice, so how much different can they be in the game?[/quote]

I'd think that reps would help but they been doing that since late July and look how they are, or aren't, now.

I'm really interested in this lions game because we'll finally see how they react to the stress of this game and we'll also see if last week was a fluke or not. If they continue to struggle on offense against the lions then that will only thicken the plot for Week 4.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;595696]I'd think that reps would help but they been doing that since late July and look how they are, or aren't, now.

I'm really interested in this lions game because we'll finally see how they react to the stress of this game and we'll also see if last week was a fluke or not. If they continue to struggle on offense against the lions then that will only thicken the plot for Week 4.[/quote]

I agree.

I want to believe that JC-Kelly could become devastating, because I think I have seen one dropped pass by him, but we need to target him more. In the video of the Rams game, JZ at one point tells Santana he had a bunch of plays "dialed up" for him, I want to hear that same thing for Kelly, and just work him until the end of the game.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=GTripp0012;595647]I'll offer another possible anti-Campbell argument. Not one that I necessarily agree with, but since we're going to debate the QB position anyway, somebody's got to make the argument against (and SCSkinsfan can't be here all the time).

He's been victimized by drops throughout his career. Just victimized. But, what if what we perceive as being dropped passes are actually plays that Campbell's timing was off on and the end game was a dropped pass.

Specifically, (and not that this was Campbell's fault) the Devin Thomas drop in the end zone occured mostly because (in my opinion) the Rams won the play up to that point. They took away the first two options on the play (Portis and either Cooley/ARE, tough to tell exactly), and got pressure on the quarterback. While I think Thomas could have been quicker to flash in the hole in the coverage, Campbell's throw was low because it had to be low.

So Thomas gets blame for dropping a ball that hit him in the hands, and cost the team a TD. But while we say, "that's another dropped pass that's killing our quarterback" the drop itself was due in part to being a complete last-chance option on the play. In this case, it's not the quarterback being completely victimized, it's just a defensive win on third down.

So while that play was hardly Campbell's fault, the consistently high dropped pass totals is probably partially attributable to the quarterback. In the same way that interceptions are rarely 100% the fault of the QB, dropped passes may be less than 100% the fault of the receiver.[/quote]

I thought the play to Sellers was actually a nice, well run play that should have been an easy TD. The play to DT was another one of those awkwurd, herky-jerky red zone plays for the Skins. Not to say that's an excuse for either the arguably poor throw or dropped pass, but it demonstrates a lack of comfort level with red zone plays. Plays seem to break down when they get down there. They look less fluid and more sandlot when they get close.

As for dropped passes throughout his career, I guess you'd have to look at each drop individually and make an assessment. What constitutes a drop? Were balls thrown low, behind, high? Did the Receiver have to make an unreasonable adjustment? And has the issue been compounded by being in a ball control, run first Offense that makes it difficult for Receivers to get into the rhythm of the game to the point that they lose focus and drop a few more balls than would be considered normal. Obviously, there are drops that are completely the Receiver's fault and ARE and Moss definitely had their fair share, especially ARE. But TO dropped more passes than anyone and the Cowbitches still managed to have a prolific passing attack.

I thought it was interesting that Zorn went to more running plays in the red zone, because passes were being dropped. Only 2 were dropped after all, and DT's was not an easy catch by any means. I wonder if he did the same thing after Campbell missed Kelly on the first play or threw out of bounds to DT or missed by a mile on another bomb attempt. I heard a caller on 980 Sports make a good point the other day. In the Super Bowl last year, what if Tomlin decided to run on the last play of the game because Santonio Holmes dropped that pass right before his game winning catch? Instead, he went right back to the same play just to the other side. Now, they were smart enough to throw on 1st and 2nd, instead of waiting for 3rd down, but that's neither here nor there;)

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=12thMan;595620]Okay, let's be real. We're talking about two games! Someone please tell me EXACTLY how many long balls Cambpell hasn't connected on so far? This year?

Anybody?[/quote]

It's not that he hasn't connected necessarily. It's that they haven't even been close. And it's not just this season either. His long ball accuracy wasn't that great last year and was borderline pathetic for most of the pre-season. There was 1 long pass to Moss against the Giants that was ridiculously off and 3 against the shitty Rams Defense - Kelly on the first play, DT along the sideline and a bomb to the end zone that almost left the stadium. Do you really think opposing Defenses have any respect for the Skins passing attack at this point?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=GTripp0012;595659]Probably. It's hard to say anymore. Clearly though, it was worth the shot. The only risk was that it bounces off of his body and gets intercepted...which actually almost happened. But that's exactly the kind of risk that you have to be willing to take.

Fans who suggest he should throw into tight coverage are just being naive. But it'd be a different issue if he refused to throw those low (or mid)-risk, high-reward passes because things might go wrong.

I think all drops are catchable passes, but I guess my bigger point is that perhaps just because a pass is "catchable" doesn't mean it necessarily going to be caught. If that was true, you could say that any WR who ever dropped a pass lacks focus and shouldn't play in this league. But then we'd have to break out the 3 TE offense.

Braylon Edwards led the NFL in drops last year by a hefty margin, but now with Derek Anderson temporarily out of the picture, he's actually having a really good start for an offense that is otherwise terrible. Brady Quinn hasn't had any success throwing to anyone else though, but I think that's because of the Robert Royal curse ;)[/quote]

Guilty as charged, because I think Campbell should be willing to throw into tight SINGLE coverage more often. If Kelly or Moss is streaking down the sideline stride for stride with a lone defender, that ball has to be thrown. Happens several times in just about every other game across the NFL (and college for that matter). Hell, where are the passes purposely thrown behind the Receiver? The rules overwhelmingly favor the Offense, so it's ridiculous not to take advantage of them. The Skins were dead last in pass interference calls last year and Campbell having only 6 INTs (against only 13 TDs) is indicative of a QB unwilling to take shots. If he can throw 20 plus TDs and keep his INT total that low, then he's a pro-bowler who should get a fat contract from the Skins.

BTW, Braylon Edwards had his best season by far with Derek Anderson throwing him the ball. And TO drops balls like it's his job. Drops happen.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=hagams;595677]I really think that the Skins can/will open up the points this week. In my FFL, I am starting JC over P Manning against the Cards. Lets give them a really good thrashing this week, and remind them that they are 19-0.

HTTR![/quote]

Damn, I wish you were in my league;)

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=GTripp0012;595683]Realistically, a 3 TD day from Campbell is not out of the question. But how often would you bet against a multi-TD day from Manning? Never?[/quote]

He had 1 last year, and the Lions seem to be a better team. BUT, he did throw for over 300 yards, which almost never happens. I'll take 250 yards and 2 TDs. 3 would be about a 25% of his yearly total;)

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=44Deezel;595700]It's not that he hasn't connected necessarily. It's that they haven't even been close. And it's not just this season either. His long ball accuracy wasn't that great last year and was borderline pathetic for most of the pre-season. There was 1 long pass to Moss against the Giants that was ridiculously off [B]and 3 against the shitty Rams Defense - Kelly on the first play, DT along the sideline and a bomb to the end zone that almost left the stadium.[/B] Do you really think opposing Defenses have any respect for the Skins passing attack at this point?[/quote]

uuuuggh!...You just brought back some bad memories from last game that I was suppressing. He threw the last one you talked about from like the 30-40 and you could tell during its ascent it was out of the endzone.

We work with what we have I guess.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

I think the bottom line is this:

If we continue to suck on offense, I'm fine with that. Just as long as the offenses we play, suck worse than we do. A "W" is a "W" dammit, and I don't care how we get it. It could be the 60-70's style football and the game can be hard-nosed, and end in a 6-3 Redskins win. As long as we are on top, it doesn't matter. Sure, we all want JC to be the next Brady or Manning, blazing down the field throwing 5 TD's a game, but that's not Redskins football. We are a tough running team, and we've gotten away from that for several reasons.....

Bottom line is that we need to get the "job" done each week, and walk away healthy, and with a win.

HTTR!!!!

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=hagams;595718]I think the bottom line is this:

If we continue to suck on offense, I'm fine with that. Just as long as the offenses we play, suck worse than we do. A "W" is a "W" dammit, and I don't care how we get it. It could be the 60-70's style football and the game can be hard-nosed, and end in a 6-3 Redskins win. As long as we are on top, it doesn't matter. Sure, we all want JC to be the next Brady or Manning, blazing down the field throwing 5 TD's a game, but that's not Redskins football. We are a tough running team, and we've gotten away from that for several reasons.....

Bottom line is that we need to get the "job" done each week, and walk away healthy, and with a win.

HTTR!!!![/quote]

I don't disagree that a hardnose football team can consistently win games ugly but I really don't consider us a hard nosed team. That's what makes our offense so sketchy to begin with.

If we had a hard nosed offense our offensive line would be WAY better and it would be opening up holes for our backs. That is not happening. We have a fairly feeble rushing line and we don't wear down defenses by being on the field so much and dragging our drives with the run game.

I'm fine with winning ugly on the back of a strong rushing offense...that isn't the case here. We won ugly with an inept offense and a defense that spent way too long on the field.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;595720]I don't disagree that a hardnose football team can consistently win games ugly but I really don't consider us a hard nosed team. That's what makes our offense so sketchy to begin with.

If we had a hard nosed offense our offensive line would be WAY better and it would be opening up holes for our backs. That is not happening. We have a fairly feeble rushing line and we don't wear down defenses by being on the field so much and dragging our drives with the run game.

[B]I'm fine with winning ugly on the back of a strong rushing offense...that isn't the case here. We won ugly with an inept offense and a defense that spent way too long on the field[/B].[/quote]

Outside the redzone, I would disagree with the assertion that are offense was inept but that's just my opinion (based on the facts that (a) we held the ball for 35 minis. and (b) we had 5 long drives of 13 plays or more).

As for the defense being on the field to long? That's just a stupid, baseless statement. We had a 10 minute time of possesion advantage over them. Our defense was on the field 25 minutes - less than half the game. Those are numbers teams strive for.

If you want to criticize, fine. But at least stick to the facts.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;595572]Is he Campbell or Zorn?[/quote]


I was referring to Campbell, but you could probably go both on that one when you think about it. Zorn, if he ever gets some trust in his young players, may call some shots for Kelly if he knows Kelly will go up and fight for the ball, same with Thomas.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;595721]Outside the redzone, I would disagree with the assertion that are offense was inept but that's just my opinion (based on the facts that (a) we held the ball for 35 minis. and (b) we had 5 long drives of 13 plays or more).

As for the defense being on the field to long? That's just a stupid, baseless statement. We had a 10 minute time of possesion advantage over them. Our defense was on the field 25 minutes - less than half the game. Those are numbers teams strive for.

If you want to criticize, fine. But at least stick to the facts.[/quote]

My only criticism between the 20s is they consistently require too many plays and too much time to get down the field. They only had 7 possessions against the Rams. I believe the average is 12. Hard to score a lot of points when you're limited to 7 possessions. Even if they scored a TD on every trip to the red zone, they would have scored only 28 points (or maybe 35?). Teams are scoring 30 plus with regularity these days.

It doesn't help that the D can't hold anyone to a 3 and out, but they're doing their job just fine. The O needs to get yards in chunks.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=hagams;595718]I think the bottom line is this:

If we continue to suck on offense, I'm fine with that. Just as long as the offenses we play, suck worse than we do. A "W" is a "W" dammit, and I don't care how we get it. It could be the 60-70's style football and the game can be hard-nosed, and end in a 6-3 Redskins win. As long as we are on top, it doesn't matter. Sure, we all want JC to be the next Brady or Manning, blazing down the field throwing 5 TD's a game, but that's not Redskins football. We are a tough running team, and we've gotten away from that for several reasons.....

Bottom line is that we need to get the "job" done each week, and walk away healthy, and with a win.

HTTR!!!![/quote]

I'd settle for him being the next Trent Edwards at this point;) Oh no I didn't!

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=44Deezel;595699]I thought the play to Sellers was actually a nice, well run play that should have been an easy TD. The play to DT was another one of those awkwurd, herky-jerky red zone plays for the Skins. Not to say that's an excuse for either the arguably poor throw or dropped pass, but it demonstrates a lack of comfort level with red zone plays. Plays seem to break down when they get down there. [B] They look less fluid and more sandlot when they get close[/B].[/quote]

I agree. We can look pretty smooth going 60 yards but once we hit the 20 it looks like we're in uncharted territory with no idea what to do next. "Let's just draw a play in the sand and try it" is what it looks like. All of a sudden linemen jump and everyone looks tight. That's why I think once we get the redzone worked out we'll be a very good offense/team. But why is this happening? Of course there is less field for the defense to cover, but it looks more like we're inept then the defense is playing well. I think it's become more complex than it needs to be. Execution needs to be sharp in the redzone and that seems to be where our execution falters. When they start playing aggressive and with confidence in the redzone, that's when this team will start putting people away. It also wouldn't hurt to try to score [B]before[/B] we get into the redzone.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=53Fan;595735]I agree. We can look pretty smooth going 60 yards but once we hit the 20 it looks like we're in uncharted territory with no idea what to do next. "Let's just draw a play in the sand and try it" is what it looks like. All of a sudden linemen jump and everyone looks tight. That's why I think once we get the redzone worked out we'll be a very good offense/team. But why is this happening? Of course there is less field for the defense to cover, but it looks more like we're inept then the defense is playing well. I think it's become more complex than it needs to be. Execution needs to be sharp in the redzone and that seems to be where our execution falters. When they start playing aggressive and with confidence in the redzone, that's when this team will start putting people away. It also wouldn't hurt to try to score [B]before[/B] we get into the redzone.[/quote]
I agree 100 % on scoring before we reach the 20 !! How about throwing into the enzone from 40 - 50 yds out , maybe get some P.I. Penalty's ?

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=44Deezel;595733]My only criticism between the 20s is [B]they consistently require too many plays and too much time to get down the field[/B]. They only had 7 possessions against the Rams. I believe the average is 12. Hard to score a lot of points when you're limited to 7 possessions. Even if they scored a TD on every trip to the red zone, they would have scored only 28 points (or maybe 35?). Teams are scoring 30 plus with regularity these days.

It doesn't help that the D can't hold anyone to a 3 and out, but they're doing their job just fine. The O needs to get yards in chunks.[/quote]

This is one of these "no matter what the Redskins do they lose in public opinion" cases.

against the Giants, the Skins had 2 end of half quick scoring long drives (both over 70 yds, both resulting in 7 points)

against the Rams, the Skins had 5 drives over 50 yards, all long time consuming, keep the Defense off the field, type drives.

Skinny has complained that the quick end of half drives don't count because, they were quick and at the end of half's

you argue that the long slow drives don't count because they require too many plays and too much time.

Last I checked it's a good thing if your team can:

- drive down at the end of the first half, against a top rated D, and get 7 points is a good thing.

- have long sustained drives that keep your opponent's offense off the field.

but somehow the Skins manage to do both, and still manage to give the appearance on the field that they don't have offensive cohesion.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

the other thing is if we had capped our long drives against the Rams with TD's, the game would have been a blowout, and none of these questions would be there.

Re: The Redskins Are Close
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;595737]This is one of these "no matter what the Redskins do they lose in public opinion" cases.

against the Giants, the Skins had 2 end of half quick scoring long drives (both over 70 yds, both resulting in 7 points)

against the Rams, the Skins had 5 drives over 50 yards, all long time consuming, keep the Defense off the field, type drives.

Skinny has complained that the quick end of half drives don't count because, they were quick and at the end of half's

you argue that the long slow drives don't count because they require too many plays and too much time.

Last I checked it's a good thing if your team can:

- drive down at the end of the first half, against a top rated D, and get 7 points is a good thing.

[B]- have long sustained drives that keep your opponent's offense off the field.[/B]

but somehow the Skins manage to do both, and still manage to give the appearance on the field that they don't have offensive cohesion.[/quote]

And wear down the opposing defense I might add. I thought that was a good thing, no? Winning the "time of possession" battle is always a goal. You want to give their offense as few chances to score as you can don't you?