Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658351]
Question, if ANYONE can have success in Shanahan's system, why has nobody done as well in it since Portis? If players are interchangable, why didn't Shanahan get any rings after Elway and Terrell Davis were gone? Answer that, Solid.
[/quote]
First thing...how many rings did Portis get for Shanahan?

Here is your answer below. Read Slow. Here are guys who have succeeded since Portis was traded:

2005: Mike Anderson 1,014 yards 4.2 YPC 12 TDs
2006: Tatum Bell 1,025 yards 4.4 YPC 2 TDs
Mike Bell 677 yards 4.3 YPC 8 TDs

2007: Selvin Young 729 yards 5.2 YPC 1TDs
Travis Henry 691 yards 4.1 YPC 4 TDs

2008: Michael Pittman 320yds 4.2 YPC 4 TDs
Peyton Hillis 343yds 5.0 YPC 5 TDs
Selvin Young 303yds 5.0 YPC 1 TDs
*3 runners combined for 10 TDs, 966 yards..not a bad year

2009: Knowshon Moreno 947yds 3.8 YPC 7TDs
Correll Buckhalter 642yds 5.4YPC 1TD

Okay....so it looks like they've been just fine and successful since the mighty Portis was traded....

Re: Portis staying?
 

Realizing or not I love what players have done for us, but I'm more for the team getting younger, healthier, and faster. Plus we need viable back ups sitting waiting in the wings instead of running into what we did this year running out of viable back up OL and having to look at what FA's were available.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I just don't get all this hostility, other than people like Portis. But here are the facts that should make the decision:
1- it will be an uncapped year (more than likely)
2- Portis has a huge contract.
3- portis has lost a step, and will be 29 come start of season.
There are no real good reasons to keep him other than personal. He's an average back now, and you don't pay top dollar for an average back. We are better off getting a rookie with fresh legs at a fraction of a fraction of the cost and save our cap for future years.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658351]Question, if ANYONE can have success in Shanahan's system, why has nobody done as well in it since Portis? If players are interchangable, why didn't Shanahan get any rings after Elway and Terrell Davis were gone? [/quote]Portis had a monster 2002 & 2003, however Denver's rushing attack remained solid with many different backs after Portis left. From 2004-2008 the Broncos were in the top ten in the NFL in Total Yds Rushing and Yards Per Attempt each year (except 2008 Total Yds at 12th).

I don't think Shanahan's system should be questioned and while Portis did have two great years that was 6-7 years ago. Here are some Redskins backs and their carries per year along with 3 other "workhorse" backs

Riggo 2916 carries / 14 years / 208 avg. carries per year
Larry Brown 1530 / 8yrs / 191 avg
Byner 2095 / 14 yrs / 149 avg
E. Campbell 2187 / 8 yrs. / 273 avg
E. George 2865 / 9yrs. / 318 avg
LT 2880 / 9 yrs. / 320 avg

Portis 2176 / 8 yrs / 272 avg.
However since Portis has been a Redskin, in the years he was healthy for 16 games, he has carried the following load: 343 / 352 / 325 / 342.
This is a monster workload. Even great backs with this type of workload break down at 8 or 9 years. I seriously doubt we see Portis return to his previous form.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;658283]My user name has nothing to do with this issue. The fact that it was your opening salvo really lets me know how much you had on me for a response. I'm a football fan chief, I can also take the Redskins shades off to judge a player for them and not what a newspaper or talk show host wants me to think. That's something else, but I'll get to the facts that you tried to prove me wrong with. I didn't say a thing about Williams and Jones but I'll meet you there also. Delhomme is one of the FEW QB's that I wouldn't drop Campbell for and Favre had a bad year BUUUUUUT he did throw 22 TD's as well. Campbells performance is relevant when the O-Line is one of the reasons given for his production or lack there of, he's another subject for me. On to the subject at hand.

Now, it took Portis 342 attempts to gain those yards, So the F what. He got them didn't he. Obviously there were a lot of men in the box, or maybe the same line that you would complain about Jason having to play behind gave him the same grief. I guess that doesn't count. I can't believe that you can really discount the fact that he put the team on his back for 2 playoff runs. Honestly, but you say because they lost that it was HIS fault ? WOW

I really wish you had looked up stats before you thought about choosing me as the guy to make a name on. Let's look at the great running backs that you speak of after Portis.

The year before Portis got to Denver (2001),Terrell Davis gave them 701 and Mike Anderson gave them 678.

'02 Portis - 1,508
Mike Anderson -386. I wonder why he wasn't starting ?
'03 Portis - 1,591
'04 Droughns - 1,240
'05 Mike Anderson -1,014
Tatum Bell - 921
'06 Tatum Bell 1,025
'07 Selvin Young -729

Do you notice something ? Like I said, He knows what he had in Portis, and that guy is not done. If people can say that Jason needs blocking to be successful, what can Portis do with the same thing ? The same thing that he has done without it,...produce.

This is a lot of typing so if you are on XBox Live we can continue this debate but believe me I'm not a kid, I'm not an easy win.[/quote]I can't honestly speak for how much effort dgack put into his post, but that sure seemed like an easy win for him.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658357]Top Running Backs from 2009

Chris Johnson: 2,006 yards 5.6 YPC
Cedric Benson: 1,251 yards 4.2 YPC
Steven Jackson: 1,416 yards 4.4 YPC
Thomas Jones: 1,402 yards 4.2 YPC
Maurice Jones-Drew: 1,391 yards 4.5 YPC

Your precious Portis wasn't higher than any of those starts listed above. So i know you hate facts, but Portis wasnt better than anybody this season...especially not on our team.[/quote]Good points. Portis was actually 32nd in the NFL in Yards per Attempt (minimum 6 rushes per game to qualify).

Re: Portis staying?
 

Thats what pisses me off with this Beniel guy. We all give him facts, back each other up, and show general good sporstmanship, and he gets on here and still talks shit to people.

He challenged me to answer questions for him which i did. This thread is 9 pages of the same answers i gave. Again and again, showing him the backs who were successful since Portis was gone...He accused me of not knowing facts. I gave him facts.

Its maddening

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658380]Thats what pisses me off with this Beniel guy. We all give him facts, back each other up, and show general good sporstmanship, and he gets on here and still talks shit to people.

He challenged me to answer questions for him which i did. This thread is 9 pages of the same answers i gave. Again and again, showing him the backs who were successful since Portis was gone...He accused me of not knowing facts. I gave him facts.

Its maddening[/quote]Facts, schmacts, who cares about those. :smashfrea


I still think he's just messing around trying to see how far this can go. Its been little slow at work this week, so I'll play along.

Re: Portis staying?
 

Previously people thought that CantonLegend might actually be Portis.

Maybe Beneil is actually Portis.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I remember that from the fall....Beneil could be portis i guess....i believe it because only Portis is pathetic enough to spend his time on a washington redskin message board :)

Re: Portis staying?
 

Why worry about it Snake? It is what it is. I feel like Portis has hurt this team as much as helped it. Some people probably find that incredible to say, but I think you see the same things I do. Someone else not seeing it doesn't make it untrue. To each his own. Trust me, you'll get frustrated as hell because logic or facts have no meaning to someone hell-bent on proving they're right about someone they like. I went through the same thing with Marcus Washington. I still think he was cut too soon, but the fact is he wasn't picked up by anyone last year. As for the statement that Portis was Gibbs favorite player, I don't remember Gibbs ever saying he had a favorite player. Here's an excerpt from his book "GamePlan for Life". "I've had players I've loved on gameday, but could barely stand the rest of the week. I've coached hotheads, egotists, and guys who played their rear ends off on Sunday but wouldn't practice a lick if it were left up to them. I called one guy into my office at Redskin Park and told him, "Hey, I love you on Sunday, but I hate you Monday through Saturday." He was dumbfounded but I think it made an impression on him. When we run into each other today at different events, he embraces me like a long-lost friend. He knows I cared about him, and that helped bring out the best in him. We'll be friends for life." It doesn't say who he was talking about and it really doesn't matter if it was Portis he was talking about or not. It DOES say how he felt about players who didn't want to practice. Some people like TO, some like Pacman Jones, I don't get it, but then again I don't have to, nor need to. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I do too. Everytime he does something positive on the field on Sundays, and it wasn't much last year, he does something negative with his mouth and hurts the team by the example he sets Monday through Saturday. Over-rated and spoiled are the words that come to mind when I think of Clinton Portis.

Re: Portis staying?
 

Ha ha ha! I hate facts!?!? This is the first time you geve your ideas any facts! All your other posts you say, 'losing a step' (no basis, last years stats are high, this year=worse line and concussion) and whenever someone is pro portis you act like they worship him and pretend they think he's perfect. Childish. Then when someone says the fact that Gibbs liked, allowed, and prefered Portis' personality and that HE would sit his best back (not Portis sitting himself) you reply stuff about how not all Gibbs words are to be taken as gospel, which is stupid cuz the guy never said gibbs was perfect either and holy crap, arent our only superbowls under his guidance? ALL of them. I would think he has an idea abaout how the game works.

As for you silly stats... Of COURSE Portis isn't one of the top backs from 09... HE HAD A CONCUSSION! As for the 4.0 ypc on Mason and Portis, Okay. fine. Betts wasn't far behind, but his longest run was 18 yards and he never got the first when we needed it. Looking at Rock's stats, you have to keep in mind we used him in draw plays and often at times when our opponents expected a pass play. Whenever it was a running situation he didn't seem to fair well, thuis Ganther being set to start. Though he and Ganther have similar % in 1st downs, he seemed to get them on running or passing downs, unlike Rock. I think if Ganther stuck with a system and was a #2 back, he would really kick some butt.

As for Mason... ugh... i was a mason guy myself. The game after Portis got hurt, i was screaming in a Buffalo Wild wings for them to put in Mason more. I mean, the guy shined 2 consecutive preseasons against 1st and 2nd sring defenses, was th eonly preseason hb to find the endzone consistantly. He's also the only back to get 20 yards other than CP. His production in the little regular season play he got didn't seem worthy of switching him out for anyone. I didnt get it... still don't. Once he's better at pass protecting, dude is a shoe-in for any #2 spot. (imo)

Anywho... This year, untill the last few games, our line didn't do squat for any of our backs in the rushing game

Re: Portis staying?
 

How come I'm the only guy who thinks 13 shy of 1500 isn't 'losing a step' therefore must be Portis in disguise!?!

this is me.

http:
//viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=16337186&albumID=2556777&imageID=63678094

And stop patting Solid snake on the back jsut because of one point he made out of a bujillion posts! I don't hate the guy, but sheesh, he hasn't said anything yet but one thing, to me, and it still didn't show how it's more Portis' fault than anyone else, NOR did he answer my questions about Shanahan

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658415]How come I'm the only guy who thinks 13 shy of 1500 isn't 'losing a step' therefore must be Portis in disguise!?!

this is me.

http:
//viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=16337186&albumID=2556777&imageID=63678094

And stop patting Solid snake on the back jsut because of one point he made out of a bujillion posts! I don't hate the guy, but sheesh, he hasn't said anything yet but one thing, to me, and it still didn't show how it's more Portis' fault than anyone else, NOR did he answer my questions about Shanahan[/quote]

If you look that Portis situation logically and without bias, you'd come to the following conclusions:

1. Football is no longer a single back league. Yes, every now and then you'll have a freak like Chris Johnson tearing it up for 2000 yds. But look at the top rushing teams this year:
- NY Jets (Thomas Jones/Shonn Greene)
- Tennessee (exception to the rule with Chris Johnson)
- Carolina (DeAngelo Williams/Jonathan Stewart)
- Miami (Ronnie Brown/Ricky Williams)
- Baltimore (Ray Rice/Willis McGahee)

2. Portis' contract is a reflection of this era of the single back carrying the workload. And with this uncapped season, the team needs to unload these huge contracts that are paying players that are getting up there in age and may not be producing as much.

3. Economics. Portis stays in a new two-RB system, you're basically paying him three times the money for half of the carries. This same thing is happening in San Diego right now.

Portis is no bum, but age traditionally catches up with these workhorse RBs at 29-30 years old. He has talent, but is it worth paying that much money for half the carries? I think this is a situation where fans have to stop thinking so much about the player and think about the team.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658414]Ha ha ha! I hate facts!?!? This is the first time you geve your ideas any facts! All your other posts you say, 'losing a step' (no basis, last years stats are high, this year=worse line and concussion) and whenever someone is pro portis you act like they worship him and pretend they think he's perfect. Childish. Then when someone says the fact that Gibbs liked, allowed, and prefered Portis' personality and that HE would sit his best back (not Portis sitting himself) you reply stuff about how not all Gibbs words are to be taken as gospel, which is stupid cuz the guy never said gibbs was perfect either and holy crap, arent our only superbowls under his guidance? ALL of them. I would think he has an idea abaout how the game works.

As for you silly stats... [B]Of COURSE Portis isn't one of the top backs from 09... HE HAD A CONCUSSION![/B] As for the 4.0 ypc on Mason and Portis, Okay. fine. Betts wasn't far behind, but his longest run was 18 yards and he never got the first when we needed it. Looking at Rock's stats, you have to keep in mind we used him in draw plays and often at times when our opponents expected a pass play. Whenever it was a running situation he didn't seem to fair well, thuis Ganther being set to start. Though he and Ganther have similar % in 1st downs, he seemed to get them on running or passing downs, unlike Rock. I think if Ganther stuck with a system and was a #2 back, he would really kick some butt.

As for Mason... ugh... i was a mason guy myself. The game after Portis got hurt, i was screaming in a Buffalo Wild wings for them to put in Mason more. I mean, the guy shined 2 consecutive preseasons against 1st and 2nd sring defenses, was th eonly preseason hb to find the endzone consistantly. He's also the only back to get 20 yards other than CP. His production in the little regular season play he got didn't seem worthy of switching him out for anyone. I didnt get it... still don't. Once he's better at pass protecting, dude is a shoe-in for any #2 spot. (imo)

Anywho... This year, untill the last few games, our line didn't do squat for any of our backs in the rushing game[/quote]

Portis did not play after the concussion. Therefore his concussion had nothing to do with his numbers.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I looked at your pic beneil. You look like a cool guy..seriously. I like the Riggins jersey too.

Let me tell you a little bit about myself, maybe we have something in common. I was the biggest Mark Brunell fan in Redskins nation. Seriously. My last redskin license plate even said "BRUNLL", no lie. I friggin worshipped the guy. I was a big fan of his in Jacksonville, i had all his jerseys,etc etc...When Brunell had that great year in 2005 and we went to the playoffs, i had the biggest Brunell-colored glasses.

The following year was vastly different. Brunell got hurt in week 2 and was never the same. Injured, he wasn't playing well. I had questions about his decision making and his arm strength. It took me the longest time to admit that he was past his prime and worn out. I think that's where we can relate. You seem to really like Portis. There isn't a thing wrong with that. One day the hard reality about him is going to hit you like it did me. Believe me, buddy..i defended #8 until the very bitter end when he went to NO. And even for a while, i secretly hoped Brees would get nicked up so that Brunell could get a chance to play...so i know how you feel.

Others have pointed it out. The NFL isnt really a single back league anymore. Maybe we should all agree that if we are stuck with Portis, and we could be, if his head injury miraculously goes away, and somehow the new regime is just gung ho-on keeping him, then maybe we should ask him to reduce his deal so that we don't have to pay him 3 times the amount for only half of the carries. If he refuses, and he probably will, then we deal him.

Portis has reached the end of the road. That's a fact. But there is something about old worn out players. Every one of them ends up making great plays here and then. Portis has the opportunity to be part of the change here, if HE is willing to change. But he has to accept that his days as the featured back are over. He can help a young guy. He can be like Fred Taylor, or Warrick Dunn, and be PART of a potent rushing attack, but the reality is that he isn't going to BE the rushing attack anymore. He's a great pass blocker...that is something that we still need. There are ways for him to help here. The biggest question we have, is will his ego allow him to take a lesser/secondary role with the team....

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658363]First thing...how many rings did Portis get for Shanahan?

Here is your answer below. Read Slow. Here are guys who have succeeded since Portis was traded:

2005: Mike Anderson 1,014 yards 4.2 YPC 12 TDs
2006: Tatum Bell 1,025 yards 4.4 YPC 2 TDs
Mike Bell 677 yards 4.3 YPC 8 TDs

2007: Selvin Young 729 yards 5.2 YPC 1TDs
Travis Henry 691 yards 4.1 YPC 4 TDs

2008: Michael Pittman 320yds 4.2 YPC 4 TDs
Peyton Hillis 343yds 5.0 YPC 5 TDs
Selvin Young 303yds 5.0 YPC 1 TDs
*3 runners combined for 10 TDs, 966 yards..not a bad year

2009: Knowshon Moreno 947yds 3.8 YPC 7TDs
Correll Buckhalter 642yds 5.4YPC 1TD

Okay....so it looks like they've been just fine and successful since the mighty Portis was traded....[/quote]

Dude...this post is retarded! None of the players above reached over 1500 yards in a season, or even got close! In fact the highest season total shown above was only 2/3 of what CP got in that system. Geez, I know you hate the guy but don't let that negate the need for common sense in your arguement.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658448]Dude...this post is retarded! None of the players above reached over 1500 yards in a season, or even got close! In fact the highest season total shown above was only 2/3 of what CP got in that system. Geez, I know you hate the guy but don't let that negate the need for common sense in your arguement.[/quote]

How about the fact that Knowshon was a rookie this past year and the Broncos were coached by Josh McDaniels so Shanahan had nothing to do with their 2009 running game output.

Re: Portis staying?
 

boo ya

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;658453]boo ya[/quote]

Fantastic analysis.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658448]Dude...this post is retarded! None of the players above reached over 1500 yards in a season, or even got close! In fact the highest season total shown above was only 2/3 of what CP got in that system. Geez, I know you hate the guy but don't let that negate the need for common sense in your arguement.[/quote]

I concur...some folks take the whole Denver running scheme to an extreme. No Terrell Davis, no Super Bowl...no Portis, no consistent RB hence their running back by committee.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I think the point isn't that Denver's "Who Dat" RBBC approach generated as many yards as CP did because obviously, it did not. The point is that it obviously didn't bother Shanny that much, because he made no moves to acquire a marquee RB after parting ways with Portis, and seemed to move the ball on the ground reasonably well without him, choosing instead to spend the draft picks on other positions.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=skins89moss;657936]Yea Shanny traded Portis but I think he would rethink doing that trade again. Portis was just hitting his stride with Denver he would have put up huge numbers. Champ still did not make the defense that much better. Portis would have made more of an impact then Champ.[/quote]

in a couple of years Denver will be celebrating a Hall of Fame inductee...not us..{personally I think Bailey is an overstated product with a great agent}

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658448]Dude...this post is retarded! None of the players above reached over 1500 yards in a season, or even got close! In fact the highest season total shown above was only 2/3 of what CP got in that system. Geez, I know you hate the guy but don't let that negate the need for common sense in your argument.[/quote]

Your math is retarded. As others have pointed out, Denver has used a 2 back system and still been okay. Maybe i'm not a expert like you, but it sure seems to me that "2/3's" of Portis' production in denver would have been about 1125 yards, right?

So the only year in which his production was not exceeded was 2008, and 3 freaking runners still got 1000 yards combined...Again, i think Denver has gotten along just fine without him.

""Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words"

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658363]First thing...how many rings did Portis get for Shanahan?

Here is your answer below. Read Slow. Here are guys who have succeeded since Portis was traded:

2005: Mike Anderson 1,014 yards 4.2 YPC 12 TDs
2006: Tatum Bell 1,025 yards 4.4 YPC 2 TDs
Mike Bell 677 yards 4.3 YPC 8 TDs

2007: Selvin Young 729 yards 5.2 YPC 1TDs
Travis Henry 691 yards 4.1 YPC 4 TDs

2008: Michael Pittman 320yds 4.2 YPC 4 TDs
Peyton Hillis 343yds 5.0 YPC 5 TDs
Selvin Young 303yds 5.0 YPC 1 TDs
*3 runners combined for 10 TDs, 966 yards..not a bad year

2009: Knowshon Moreno 947yds 3.8 YPC 7TDs
Correll Buckhalter 642yds 5.4YPC 1TD

Okay....so it looks like they've been just fine and successful since the mighty Portis was traded....[/quote]

what I get out of these stats...

was a confirmation that I was stupid to draft Matt Forte in fantasy after seeing what Cutler did to Denver's running attack

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658500]Your math is retarded. As others have pointed out, Denver has used a 2 back system and still been okay. Maybe i'm not a expert like you, but it sure seems to me that "2/3's" of Portis' production in denver would have been about 1125 yards, right?

So the only year in which his production was not exceeded was 2008, and 3 freaking runners still got 1000 yards combined...Again, i think Denver has gotten along just fine without him.

""Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words"[/quote]

Look...CP (one back) in Denver's system:

2002- 1,508 yards - 5.5 ypc - 15 TD's
2003- 1,591 yards - 5.5 ypc - 14 TD's

Even with a "two back system" the production fell off after he left. If you hate the guy, just say you hate the guy. Stop trying to validate your emotions with any statistical eveidence knocking his worth as a player in the Denver system. He's not the same player now, but he can still be productive. It's like you want us to believe he was never anything special simply because you disapprove of his character? The guy was a stud and might have some productive years left. That will be up to the new FO to figure out. Either way, his career is an accomplished one and no amount of your disdain for him can detract from that.

Do you lways let your feelings get in the way of common sense? I guess Tiger Woods is an overrated golfer casue he's an adulterer? Tom Brady is an average QB cause he left his pregnant girlfriend? Kobe sucks cause he cheated on his wife? Riggo doesn't deserve to be in the HOF becasue he used to drink beer in a shed after practice? Joe Namath is a bum cause he struggles with alcoholism? Mel Gibson's movies are some trash because of his anti-semitism?

As far as your quoting of proverbs 23:9, I can only be amused. The guy with no validity in his arguement has to resort to ideaology in an attempt to recover any resemblence of an effective rebuttal. How cliche.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658527]Look...CP (one back) in Denver's system:

2002- 1,508 yards - 5.5 ypc - 15 TD's
2003- 1,591 yards - 5.5 ypc - 14 TD's

Even with a "two back system" the production fell off after he left. If you hate the guy, just say you hate the guy. Stop trying to validate your emotions with any statistical eveidence knocking his worth as a player in the Denver system. He's not the same player now, but he can still be productive. It's like you want us to believe he was never anything special simply because you disapprove of his character? The guy was a stud and might have some productive years left. That will be up to the new FO to figure out. Either way, his career is an accomplished one and no amount of your disdain for him can detract from that.

Do you lways let your feelings get in the way of common sense? I guess Tiger Woods is an overrated golfer casue he's an adulterer? Tom Brady is an average QB cause he left his pregnant girlfriend? Kobe sucks cause he cheated on his wife? Riggo doesn't deserve to be in the HOF becasue he used to drink beer in a shed after practice? Joe Namath is a bum cause he struggles with alcoholism? Mel Gibson's movies are some trash because of his anti-semitism?

As far as your quoting of proverbs 23:9, I can only be amused. The guy with no validity in his arguement has to resort to ideaology in an attempt to recover any resemblence of an effective rebuttal. How cliche.[/quote]

Im not going to argue with you. It's pointless. You wont believe me even when i give facts, and i wont believe you even with your 'facts'. Are you the president of the pastor of the church of Portis?

You accuse me of no validity in my argument. F you. I gave you stats and shit just like you did. And i already said in a few pages back, which you obviously didnt read, that I did HATE Portis because of what he's done to the team.I never criticised his past work. I'm not like you..i dont "worship" Portis for his past body of work, and figure he gets a pass for the future.

What do you want from me?? Damn at least Beneil is reasonable. Is being unreasonable a condition of your religion? I'm calling YOU out like you did me. Just admit that you are set in what you know and don't care about any other opinion or fact. Most of this thread is made up of people who feel just like I do...

Maybe there is no clear resolution. Can we just be friends now? How can i get a long with 1,487 other people every day...but you're that one guy that has to be the exception....

Re: Portis staying?
 

Ok, this is another thing I don't get. So you people with brighter minds please help out....

Portis is in Denver as the featured back. He gets 1500+ yrds.
The Skins trade for him and he does well for us.

The arguement I keep hearing is why would we get rid of a 1500+ yrd runner when it's proven that after Portis no other RB got that. It's a good arguement but slightly flawed which I think some of are trying to point out who got 1,014 yrds. But those were not the only yrds.


After Portis left Denver used more then one runner. Perhaps it was to not put too much punishment on just one RB. So they go to a 2 back system. RB by commity. If this is the case then you have to add the 2 RB's yrds together. If the 2 backs did just as good as Portis then fine. It doesn't mean Denver never had a good RB after Portis. It just means the coach's spread the punishment around so not one RB was getting beat up all year long like Portis did.

2004-
Droughns: 1,240
Griffin: 311
Bell: 396
Total: 1,947

2005-
Anderson: 1,014
Bell: 921
Total: 1,935

2006-
T.Bell: 1,025
M.Bell: 677
Total: 1,702

2007-
Henry: 698
Young: 729
Hall: 216
Total: 1,643

2008- was a bad year for them all 3 RB picked up only 300 yrds or slightly over.

In Portis's years mentioned:

2002-
Portis: 1,508
Anderson: 386
Gary: 147
Total: 2,041

2003-
Portis: 1,591
Griffin: 345
Anderson: 257
Total: 2,193

I know some idget will argue that Denver had their 2 best season's when Portis was there but there are other issues to consider. How was the rest of the team playing? Did they have a good passing attack also? Did they have all their OL healthy? Who was QB?

In Portis 2 season's used 2002 and 2003 he did get more yards but so did the other RB's which leads me to believe the team as a whole was getting better. After Portis left each season they got less yardage rushing which tells me the team as a whole was on the decline. All the way up to 2008 which was Shanahan's last year.

Again not saying Portis sucks but he's aging. Salary is too high for production. Now injury prone.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SBXVII;658544]I know some idget will argue that Denver had their 2 best season's when Portis was there but there are other issues to consider. How was the rest of the team playing? Did they have a good passing attack also? Did they have all their OL healthy? Who was QB?

In Portis 2 season's used 2002 and 2003 he did get more yards but so did the other RB's which leads me to believe the team as a whole was getting better. After Portis left each season they got less yardage rushing which tells me the team as a whole was on the decline. All the way up to 2008 which was Shanahan's last year.

Again not saying Portis sucks but he's aging. Salary is too high for production. Now injury prone.[/quote]

Good post, up to this point. THe guys running with portis did well, but no better than any of the other backs that followed. We tried the whole 2 back thing, bringing out Portis for Betts all the time. All it did was piss me off, lol! I hate whenever they pan to Portis and he has that, "PUT ME IN THERE!" face, then i see Betts get stuffed shy of the endzone (Man we shoulda beat them Giants).

As For Solid Snake, Yeah, i felt the same way about Brunell. He got a bad rap and a lot of skins fans were doggin him. He's not the starter he once was and I was a little quicker to say 'in with the new' than you, but if they didn't let Jason in and kept with Brunell I would've been a little pissed, but not as mad as you where when they finally did. Funny thing is that we also both kinda want Brunell to shine if Brees gets hurt. (I'm also mad they got Chase Daniel)

I officialy take back the hurtful Pink Romo Jersey comment... that was a tad overkill.

Still... I sincerely believe that there is no current free agent prospect or HB already in red that can do better than a healthy CP. I think that creating a strong and techniquely sound o-line that is sturdy, cohesive, and somewhat youthfull is the highest priority, and if we used a pick to draft a #4 runningback, we're gonna have the next Barry Sanders. Screw highlight reels, i want a trophy! If we get a great line and (for instance) Have Portis, Ganther, Rock, and Mason, we'll KILL in the ground game! But ONLY if we fix our line. If you give me trade options where a better back won't cost us, then maybe, but as for Draft, we need that moster Tackle from Oklahoma State. As for free agents... i'd rather stick with CP then lose the money and pay for one of them

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SBXVII;658544]
Again not saying Portis sucks but he's aging. Salary is too high for production. Now injury prone.[/quote]

portis is set to make over 10 mil per year until the year 2013. now is the time to cut bait imo.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I like CP as a player but if we can pay him of and sign him to a lesser deal then do, i hope we can do that with all are other high paid players.

Re: Portis staying?
 

Free Agent Options:

Leon Washington... is about the same age as Portis and just broke his leg. Provided Portis is cleared from that head bang to play, I think Portis is the better of the two. Portis is far more accomplished and there aren't any other categories where he excels over CP. Leon IS, however, a great #2 back and can be the next Rock since he is younger than Rock and can do special teams, but even so, he's reportedly out to be an number one and make big bucks. He may want just as much as CP.

Willie Parker... Fast Willie is WAY more injury prone than CP and though he's been in about as long his stats are WAY lower than CP in many categories. He's a humungus risk. Unlike Portis, Willie doesn't play injured often, he'll spend more time on our bench than Todd Collins. He's likely to stay in Pit

Chester Taylor... I doubt he's going anywhere. AP is not an every down back. They need someone else to pick up the slack and will, and should, do whatever it takes to keep AP as healthy as they can for as long as they can. He's older than Portis but has fewer miles. He's not as good as Portis at Portis' best, but as portis is now, i think they're arguable in the same boat. If he's out there to grab, it then just depends on money. Still i don't see it as an improvement. He is a beast though

Pierre Thomas... i doubt the saints will let him go, but he is definately not a #1 running ack. He may fit well for Shanahan's scheme though, and he is only 25. IF Portis' is at his best, i don't see Thomas being better. He's better than everyone else on the roster though, as an HB that is. As a receiving option, he's good, but no better than Rock or our young backs.

Ronnie Brown... Seriously? Like he's going anywhere. Miami's gonna keep him.

Jerome Harrison... One awesome game does NOT make a great player. Apart from the Chiefs game he was nothing to shout about. One 100+ game all season

Cadillac... Same boat as Portis on the injuries. He's not 'better' and he only had a pretty good year. I'm just not for trading for a caddy the same year with fewer mileage. If Portis is healthy, he's better than Cadillac healthy.

Mike Bell... Okay... this one is debatable. If the Saints can't keep him after paying for Reggie Bush and maybe Pierre Thomas, then I wouldn't mind Mike Bell coming in. Honestly, i don't see him leaving though and i don't see him putting up 1500+ if the featured back.

Lendale White... dude was pushed asside for a reason. The TItans have a HORSE in Chris Johnson. (holy crap) But White is just #2. a GREAT #2, but still

Everyone else is either old, crappy, or too injury prone for their mediocre stats to even make conversationworthy. The best of the crew above are not going anywhere. There are two above that i honeslty thin would do better than portis if we got them, but they aren't leaving their teams and to name them would only lead to another debate.

Now as for NON-free agent players that Snyder can wag his magic moneywand or trade to get... those scenarios can get pretty goofy and i suggest we not go there or some dork will say "We can trade Portis, Betts, and a draft pick for Adrian Peterson!" or something stupid like that. Please, reasonable options only, and keep in mind, better production in a better system with a better line doesn't make a better runningback. Emmit Smith was arguable a B+ back at best... but given insanly large holes to run through, anyone can be the man. (Barry woulda got 3000 behind that line)

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;658530]Im not going to argue with you. It's pointless. You wont believe me even when i give facts, and i wont believe you even with your 'facts'. Are you the president of the pastor of the church of Portis?

You accuse me of no validity in my argument. F you. I gave you stats and shit just like you did. And i already said in a few pages back, which you obviously didnt read, that I did HATE Portis because of what he's done to the team.I never criticised his past work. I'm not like you..i dont "worship" Portis for his past body of work, and figure he gets a pass for the future.

What do you want from me?? Damn at least Beneil is reasonable. Is being unreasonable a condition of your religion? I'm calling YOU out like you did me. Just admit that you are set in what you know and don't care about any other opinion or fact. Most of this thread is made up of people who feel just like I do...

Maybe there is no clear resolution. Can we just be friends now? How can i get a long with 1,487 other people every day...but you're that one guy that has to be the exception....[/quote]

Kill the motor Dude! Pipe down a tad. For the record, I am not a huge CP fan and I would not be upset if the team parted ways with him (provided we have a suitabloe alternative). However, I will not discredit what he has meant to this franchise as a player (adding weight, giving up his body to the tune of 300+ carries a year, shortening his own career, etc.) and would love to have him come back if the FO feels like he is in top form for a player of his age/experience. I probably would never want to be buddies with the guy, but I do not mind having a player of his skill set on my team.

I do not think one poor year makes him a piece of shit player. Nor do I think that calling out Seller bad blocking to the coaches (justifiably but not a nice thing to do) warrants his dismissal. I also, like John Thompson and Doc Walker, think that his comments on JC's leadership skills were taken out of context (probably why he called JC that night to explain). It perplexes me that folks are so quick to hate him when those close to him seem to respect him. And as far as the "some of his teammates are fed up" and "that's why he wasn't elected a team captain" arguement.....all I can say is, "Who gives a shit about the captains of a 4-12 team?" Obviously the 'leadership' on the 2009 squad was ineffective at best.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I agree with your last points. The team had no leadership from the players OR the coaches.

I havent taken a thing away from Portis' past work, and understand what he has brought to this club...however, i just think his best moments already happened, and we can't bank on him having a future here.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658565]Free Agent Options:

Ronnie Brown... Seriously? Like he's going anywhere. Miami's gonna keep him.[/quote]
LOVE to have Brown, but like you said, why would Miami part ways and keep Williams?
Most all your comments were pretty good, and while some could be debatable, they were close to being right on, so I left them alone...however, the following quote of yours is extremely incorrect:

[quote]Jerome Harrison... One awesome game does NOT make a great player. [b]Apart from the Chiefs game he was nothing to shout about. One 100+ game all season[/b][/quote]

Actually he had 4 100 yard+ performances, AND he did it on Cleveland...[b]CLEVELAND![/b]
He only had 5 games where he would have been considered a "starter" in terms of carries, and in 4 of them he reached over 100. (in the other game he did not get to 100 yards, he had only 16 carries and it was vs the stingy Bal defense)
week 4- CIN, 121 yards
week 14- @K.C., 286 yards
week 15- OAK, 148 yards
week 16- JAX, 127 yards

Time to cut Portis and save the money...I would have SERIOUS concerns about our F.O. if they kept Portis given his age and lack of production. Sure he's still servicable, and still blocks well...but he should not be a primary back. The only way I would like to see portis in a skins uni is if he is cut and signs a new contract for a fraction of a fraction of what he makes. Then we draft some young stud and let them fight it out for carries.

Re: Portis staying?
 

I don't think we should go after any FA RB's. We have enough experience with CP, Betts, and Rock. Its time to draft a young up and comer. We need to get younger.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=jsarno;658610]Time to cut Portis and save the money...I would have SERIOUS concerns about our F.O. if they kept Portis given his age and lack of production. Sure he's still servicable, and still blocks well...but he should not be a primary back. The only way I would like to see portis in a skins uni is if he is cut and signs a new contract for a fraction of a fraction of what he makes. Then we draft some young stud and let them fight it out for carries.[/quote]Quick correction that cutting Portis wouldn't save money, it would waste it.

Honestly though, the money that we have guaranteed to Portis for 2010 should be considered a sunk cost, and should not be considered in the decision to keep him or cut bait with him. That is to say: "because we owe him 6 million" is not a good reason for keeping him over getting rid of him. But likewise, cutting him doesn't get you that large amount of money back. It still has to be paid.

If we write it off as a sunk cost today in the books, we basically have to make the decision between having Portis on the roster "for free", and having him off the team at the exact same price. If he's one of the best 53 players (or four RBs), we should keep him, otherwise, we should get rid of him and cut him a check.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);658565]Everyone else is either old, crappy, or too injury prone for their mediocre stats to even make conversationworthy. The best of the crew above are not going anywhere. There are two above that i honeslty thin would do better than portis if we got them, but they aren't leaving their teams and to name them would only lead to another debate.

Now as for NON-free agent players that Snyder can wag his magic moneywand or trade to get... those scenarios can get pretty goofy and i suggest we not go there or some dork will say "We can trade Portis, Betts, and a draft pick for Adrian Peterson!" or something stupid like that. Please, reasonable options only, and keep in mind, better production in a better system with a better line doesn't make a better runningback. Emmit Smith was arguable a B+ back at best... but given insanly large holes to run through, anyone can be the man. (Barry woulda got 3000 behind that line)[/quote]

I don't understand why we need to be pressed for a feature back and even worst, look for one in free agency. This team will most likely move towards a 2-RB or 3-RB system. We need to find a talented RB in the later rounds, and recent acquisitions by other teams (i.e. Tashard Choice, Shonn Greene) have resulted in success.

Re: Portis staying?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;658616]Quick correction that cutting Portis wouldn't save money, it would waste it.

Honestly though, the money that we have guaranteed to Portis for 2010 should be considered a sunk cost, and should not be considered in the decision to keep him or cut bait with him. That is to say: "because we owe him 6 million" is not a good reason for keeping him over getting rid of him. But likewise, cutting him doesn't get you that large amount of money back. It still has to be paid.[/quote]

I'm referring strictly to the cap hit he will cost us for the next two years. Snyder has deep pockets so that money won't matter on an uncapped year.

[quote]If we write it off as a sunk cost today in the books, we basically have to make the decision between having Portis on the roster "for free", and having him off the team at the exact same price. If he's one of the best 53 players (or four RBs), we should keep him, otherwise, we should get rid of him and cut him a check.[/quote]

I agree.

Re: Portis staying?
 

Wait, did someone actually say they'd rather keep CP than have Pierre Thomas? Pass whatever you're smoking, man. It's been a rough week, I need a hit.

Thomas has less carries on him in 3 years than CP took in any full season he's played in, and he crushes CP's career ypc -- 5.1 to 4.5 (and by the way, you take out those two years in Denver and CP's career ypc takes a 12% hit. He's logged an avg 4.1ypc since he arrived here.)